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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » WILL THE CHURCH GO THROUGH?

   
Author Topic: WILL THE CHURCH GO THROUGH?
WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
[QUOTE]

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; (John 14:16)

We believe the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation, but we don't know what day. We do know, however, that His Holy Spirit will be with us always.

2 Corinthians 1:

22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Ephesians 4:

30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by clark:
The truth is the scripture is unclear about when the rapture will occur but it is clear the Spirit will be with His followers always.

I agree clark. The Scriptures say:

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. (Matthew 24:36)

Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. (1 Thessalonians 5:1-2)

And

I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; (John 14:16)

We believe the Rapture will occur before the Tribulation, but we don't know what day. We do know, however, that His Holy Spirit will be with us always.

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Caretaker
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The Word declares that we are with Christ in Glory, and then we return and reign with Him 1000 years, Glory to God!!!!!

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Kindgo
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No Clark that is not the truth.... [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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clark
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The truth is the scripture is unclear about when the rapture will occur but it is clear the Spirit will be with His followers always.

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God's word is truth

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Kindgo
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trim your lamps!

Matthew 25:1-13 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!

' Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'

But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.


Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

This parable in Matthew 25 is a warning to the entire body — be ready with your oil!


Each of these virgins was anticipating the Lord's return; none were atheists, or non-believers.

They were all virgins who claimed to be awaiting the Bridegroom's arrival. But notice carefully that only half of them were truly ready.

In the ancient Temple era the Aaronic priests were in charge of lighting the lamp of God and keeping it burning.

Their main responsibilities included trimming the wicks, refilling the lamp constantly with fresh oil, and making sure it never burned out.

A clear parallel can be drawn between the Aaronic priesthood and the New Covenant priesthood of Melchizedek and Yeshua (Jesus). Both are responsible to keep the lamps burning!

Are you feeling burned out this Chanukah season?

Then trim your wick by getting rid of the useless things in your life and diving deeper into His Word.


Are you feeling spiritually drained?

Then wait on the Lord and ask Him for a fresh anointing.

Bearing the light of God is the responsibility of all true believers; you are the bearer of that light; so be reignited today and keep your lamps burning bright for Him.

Let's be wise virgins, anxiously awaiting His return!

Your family in the Lord with much agape love,

George, Baht Rivka, Elianna & Obadiah

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

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WildB
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"when the Son of Man returns will He find faith on the earth?"

No.

The Amazing, Alarming, and Awful Apostasy
by Dr. J. Vernon McGee

By Dr. J. Vernon McGee © Thru the Bible Radio Network, www.ttb.org


All Scripture references are from the New Scofield Reference Bible.
(This message is also included in the hardback book, J. Vernon McGee On Prophecy, copyright 1993 by Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN.)


"Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God, the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called: mercy unto you, and peace, and love be multiplied. Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained [written of beforehand] to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (Jude 1-4)"


We are seeing in our day an amazing, an alarming, and an awful apostasy of the church.There has always been a question among students of prophecy about just how far the organized church would go into the apostasy before the Rapture occurs. That is, at what particular point in the apostasy would the true church, made up of those who were believers in the Lord Jesus Christ, be taken out of the world?

Now some of us did not believe that we would see the organized churches plunge this far into a departure from the faith before the true church — that is, the body of believers who actually trust in Christ as Savior, recognizing they are sinners and their only hope is in Him — would be taken out of the world. When Dr. William Culbertson was here in Los Angeles speaking at the Prophetic Conference, he said to some of us privately, “The things I am seeing today I thought would not take place until the Tribulation!” And I’m sure that this is the viewpoint of many students of prophecy today.

In this sense, therefore, it’s an amazing apostasy that has come upon us. Suddenly the church has departed from the faith, and many of us thought that by the time this happened the true church would be gone.

In view of some of the activities of the contemporary church it’s an alarming apostasy.
Because of the present conditions in the church (and in this message I will merely touch the fringe of them), it is an awful apostasy.

For this reason I think we can accurately say that we are right now in an amazing and alarming and awful apostasy in the church.

Now when I say apostasy, I mean it in the Bible sense, a departure from the faith. The word in the original Greek is aphistemi. Histemi means “to stand” and apo means “away from.” Let me illustrate it this way: It’s my custom to stand at the pulpit to preach, but if I stood over by the piano, it would be aphistemi, standing away from the pulpit. And today there is an aphistemi in the church, which means that men who at one time professed to believe the great basic truths of the Christian faith have now denied those things. They have departed from them.

For that reason it might be well to take a second look at what the Scripture states about the apostasy in relationship to the Rapture of the true believers. In light of where we are at the present time we need to see what the Word of God actually says in this connection.

The question arises: Will these organized churches go into total apostasy?
Will there be a total eclipse of the faith? The Lord Jesus made a statement in Luke 18:8 that has been difficult for many to accept, and I must confess that it was very difficult for me to accept years ago.

He asked: “...When the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?” That is, will He find the body of truth that He left here some two thousand years ago? Will He find the faith upon the earth? This question is so couched in the Greek (we can’t do this in English) that it demands a negative answer. So the answer to it is no, He will not find the faith upon the earth when He returns. And so we draw from this that there will be a total apostasy of the organized church.

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That is all.....

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
No, the Bride of Christ will NOT go through the Tribulation. Our Lord and Savior made this promise to us.

Revelation 3:10

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

The promise is based on keeping the word of His patience, a reference to all believers (see similar Johannine designations in John 8:51; 14:23-24; and 1 John 2:3). It was made to all the churches, not just the one in Philadelphia in the first century (note Rev. 3:13 and the similar close to each of the letters to these representative churches). It relates to the coming hour of testing on the earth; that is, to the tribulations prophesied later on in the Revelation. It states that believers will be kept from that hour (tereso ek tes horas). Those who oppose pretribulationism understand the phrase to mean “I will guard”; that is, believers will be guarded throughout the seven years and then emerge from it at the second coming of Christ.

The pretribulationist’s understanding of ek is supported by a number of verses that have nothing to do with the Rapture and therefore do not beg the question. “He who guards his mouth and his tongue, guards his soul from troubles” (Prov. 21:23). Guarding your mouth and tongue is not the means of protecting yourself in the time of trouble; rather, it is the means of escaping trouble you are not presently in. In the Septuagint ek indicates an external, not internal, preservation. Ek also is used in the same way of external protection in Joshua 2:13 and Psalms 33:19; 56:13. Likewise in the New Testament, ek clearly has the same meaning. In Acts 15:29 Gentile believers were asked to keep themselves from certain practices that were offensive to Jewish believers. The only way they could do that would be by abstaining entirely from the practices. They must withdraw, not somehow protect themselves while practicing those things. In James 5:20 we are told that if a sinning Christian can be turned away from his backslidden state he will be saved from physical death. There is no way ek could mean he will be protected in the midst of physical death and then emerge from it in some kind of resurrection. He will escape a premature death by being exempt from it.

The same phrase keep from, occurs in John 17:15: “I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.” Posttribulationists point out that this promise is fulfilled not by removing believers from the world but by protecting them from Satan while they live on the earth. Then they assert that, similarly, believers will live during the Tribulation but be kept from its wrath.

Such an analogy fails to answer the basic question, How are believers kept from Satan’s power? True, it is not by removing them from this world, but a removal is involved. Paul described it this way: “For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son” (Col. 1:13). John said the same thing when he wrote that “the evil one does not touch [cling to] him [the believer]” (1 John 5:18). Believers have been transferred from one domain (Satan’s) to another (Christ’s), and that is how we are kept from the evil one.

However, the promise of Revelation 3:10 not only guarantees being kept from the trials of the Tribulation period but being kept from the time period of the Tribulation. The promise is not, “I will keep you from the trials.” It is, “I will also keep you from the hour of trial” (NIV). Posttribulationists have to resort to finding means to “undercut stress on the term ‘hour’” by insisting that “hour” means the experiences of a time period but not the time itself. In other words, the church will live through the time but will not experience (some of) the events. But if the events of the Tribulation are worldwide and directly and indirectly affect everybody, how can the church be on the earth and escape the experiences? If our Lord had been saved from the hour of His atoning sacrifice (John 12:27) by living through that time but not experiencing the events of His passion, there would have been no atonement.

Granted, it is possible to live through a time and miss some of the events (like being present at a social function but missing some of the activities), but it is not possible to miss the time without also missing the events.

To summarize, posttribulationists teach unclearly the meaning of the promise of Revelation 3:10. (1) Some seem to say that it means protection (for some believers who escape martyrdom throughout the Tribulation) and then Rapture at the end. (2) Some seem to say that it means protection from the last crisis (which includes Armageddon and the “lull” of peace and safety that supposedly precedes it) by Rapture just before that last crisis. (3) Some seem to say that it means the church will live through Armageddon, be guarded during that time, and emerge (all believers unscathed?) in the Rapture-Second Coming. One thing is clear to posttribulationists: it cannot mean deliverance before the Tribulation begins.

But how clear and plain the promise is: “I... will keep you from the hour of testing.” Not from just any persecution, but the coming time that will affect the whole earth. The only way to escape worldwide trouble is not to be on the earth. And the only way to escape the time when events take place is not to be in a place where time ticks on. The only place that meets those qualifications is heaven.

This is pretribulationism, and this is the meaning of the promise of Revelation 3:10. And the promise came from the risen Savior who Himself is the Deliverer from the wrath to come

1 Thess. 1:10

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

(Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth)
[rapture] [rapture] [rapture]

Roger that. Posted this for those that are having trouble Rightly dividing the Word.

[rapture]

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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No, the Bride of Christ will NOT go through the Tribulation. Our Lord and Savior made this promise to us.

Revelation 3:10

Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

The promise is based on keeping the word of His patience, a reference to all believers (see similar Johannine designations in John 8:51; 14:23-24; and 1 John 2:3). It was made to all the churches, not just the one in Philadelphia in the first century (note Rev. 3:13 and the similar close to each of the letters to these representative churches). It relates to the coming hour of testing on the earth; that is, to the tribulations prophesied later on in the Revelation. It states that believers will be kept from that hour (tereso ek tes horas). Those who oppose pretribulationism understand the phrase to mean “I will guard”; that is, believers will be guarded throughout the seven years and then emerge from it at the second coming of Christ.

The pretribulationist’s understanding of ek is supported by a number of verses that have nothing to do with the Rapture and therefore do not beg the question. “He who guards his mouth and his tongue, guards his soul from troubles” (Prov. 21:23). Guarding your mouth and tongue is not the means of protecting yourself in the time of trouble; rather, it is the means of escaping trouble you are not presently in. In the Septuagint ek indicates an external, not internal, preservation. Ek also is used in the same way of external protection in Joshua 2:13 and Psalms 33:19; 56:13. Likewise in the New Testament, ek clearly has the same meaning. In Acts 15:29 Gentile believers were asked to keep themselves from certain practices that were offensive to Jewish believers. The only way they could do that would be by abstaining entirely from the practices. They must withdraw, not somehow protect themselves while practicing those things. In James 5:20 we are told that if a sinning Christian can be turned away from his backslidden state he will be saved from physical death. There is no way ek could mean he will be protected in the midst of physical death and then emerge from it in some kind of resurrection. He will escape a premature death by being exempt from it.

The same phrase keep from, occurs in John 17:15: “I do not ask Thee to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one.” Posttribulationists point out that this promise is fulfilled not by removing believers from the world but by protecting them from Satan while they live on the earth. Then they assert that, similarly, believers will live during the Tribulation but be kept from its wrath.

Such an analogy fails to answer the basic question, How are believers kept from Satan’s power? True, it is not by removing them from this world, but a removal is involved. Paul described it this way: “For He delivered us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son” (Col. 1:13). John said the same thing when he wrote that “the evil one does not touch [cling to] him [the believer]” (1 John 5:18). Believers have been transferred from one domain (Satan’s) to another (Christ’s), and that is how we are kept from the evil one.

However, the promise of Revelation 3:10 not only guarantees being kept from the trials of the Tribulation period but being kept from the time period of the Tribulation. The promise is not, “I will keep you from the trials.” It is, “I will also keep you from the hour of trial” (NIV). Posttribulationists have to resort to finding means to “undercut stress on the term ‘hour’” by insisting that “hour” means the experiences of a time period but not the time itself. In other words, the church will live through the time but will not experience (some of) the events. But if the events of the Tribulation are worldwide and directly and indirectly affect everybody, how can the church be on the earth and escape the experiences? If our Lord had been saved from the hour of His atoning sacrifice (John 12:27) by living through that time but not experiencing the events of His passion, there would have been no atonement.

Granted, it is possible to live through a time and miss some of the events (like being present at a social function but missing some of the activities), but it is not possible to miss the time without also missing the events.

To summarize, posttribulationists teach unclearly the meaning of the promise of Revelation 3:10. (1) Some seem to say that it means protection (for some believers who escape martyrdom throughout the Tribulation) and then Rapture at the end. (2) Some seem to say that it means protection from the last crisis (which includes Armageddon and the “lull” of peace and safety that supposedly precedes it) by Rapture just before that last crisis. (3) Some seem to say that it means the church will live through Armageddon, be guarded during that time, and emerge (all believers unscathed?) in the Rapture-Second Coming. One thing is clear to posttribulationists: it cannot mean deliverance before the Tribulation begins.

But how clear and plain the promise is: “I... will keep you from the hour of testing.” Not from just any persecution, but the coming time that will affect the whole earth. The only way to escape worldwide trouble is not to be on the earth. And the only way to escape the time when events take place is not to be in a place where time ticks on. The only place that meets those qualifications is heaven.

This is pretribulationism, and this is the meaning of the promise of Revelation 3:10. And the promise came from the risen Savior who Himself is the Deliverer from the wrath to come

1 Thess. 1:10

and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.

(Basic Theology: A Popular Systematic Guide to Understanding Biblical Truth)
[rapture] [rapture] [rapture]

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WildB
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WILL THE CHURCH GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION?
Will the Church Go Through the Tribulation?
Authors: Noah Hutchings, Bob Glaze, Larry Spargimino, Kenneth Hill, David Schnittger, and Douglas Stauffer

One of the most controversial issues within Christendom is the question, Will the church have to go through the seven-year Tribulation period, which is yet to come?

The Tribulation will witness the rise of a world dictator who will have the authority and power to demand that everyone in the world take his mark and worship him as God. Those who do not will be executed.

Those who hold to a pre-tribulation view understand the Scriptures to mean all Christians will be taken up out of the world at the Rapture just before the Tribulation begins. Those who hold to a post-tribulation view believe the Scriptures teach that Christians will go through the Tribulation and will be persecuted and killed like everyone else. It is obvious that both views cannot be right.

Chapters include:

The Church and the Tribulation in Genesis
The Pre-Tribulational Rapture in the Book of Daniel
The Tribulation Prophesied in the Four Gospels
The Tribulation Prophesied in Acts
The Tribulation Prophesied in the Pauline Epistles
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Prophesied in the General Epistles
The Tribulation Prophesied in the Book of Revelation
The Church After the Rapture
The Post-Tribulational World
In Will the Church Go Through the Tribulation?, several authors have considered separate but relative sections of both the Old and New Testaments to discover if the church will experience this coming time of famine, death, and sorrow.

Add To Cart
H-031: Will the Church Go Through the Tribulation?

http://www.swrc.com/bookstore/gift_offers/giftoffers.html#h031

[rapture]

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That is all.....

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