Christian Message Board And Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Board And Forums   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Another Gospel (Page 2)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!  
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Another Gospel
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 6 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
U SPEAK WITH FORKED TONG.


I quoted scripture, is that what you call it? [Eek!]
U QUOTED SCRIPT 2 MAKE OTHERS TITHE TOO, your point?

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
your point?

My point is those scriptures speak for themselves. [Roll Eyes] If you have a problem with the word take it up with the Lord. [Frown]

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 6 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
your point?

My point is those scriptures speak for themselves. [Roll Eyes] If you have a problem with the word take it up with the Lord. [Frown]
If u can't rightfully divide the WORD, I am here for the Lord 2 make shur you do.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
your point?

My point is those scriptures speak for themselves. [Roll Eyes] If you have a problem with the word take it up with the Lord. [Frown]
If u can't rightfully divide the WORD, I am here for the Lord 2 make shur you do.
Your pride in yourself is evident. [Roll Eyes] Maybe thats why you cannot bear the verses i quoted above. [Smile]

John 16:12
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneinchrist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Carol,

Barry44 said:
But after your born again God wants Obedience.

I said:
The Holy Spirit(the helper, teacher, guide) still leaves us with choices to make.........and those choices that we do make reflect where we are putting our allegiance.

You said:
God still wants us to be filled with the Holy Spirit and to walk in the Spirit.

I completely agree with you, but do you understand me? Please let me give an illustration so that you may understand.

Once we begin our journey of faith with the Lord, the Lord will guide us along. He will take us by the arms and teach us like His little children. We will grow in confidence that He is with us and working out His plan in our lives. Inevitably we will come to places that the Holy Spirit leads us where we realize that we must put on courage in the face of our fears. We do not know what is on the other side of the door......but we know that we must take the initiative to pass through it(trusting the Lord) because we know that we were lead to that door by the Spirit. These choices that we are left to make, when they are faith choices, we will soon realize that the Lord is waiting for us to put on the courage despite our fears.

Let me put it to you this way Carol. As we are walking in the spirit, the spirit is purposely going to leave us with certain specific Carol/Daniel designed choices to make, in which we can obey or disobey. The Spirit will give us the key, but leave it up to us to put it in its place.......knowing full well that we will have to put on courage in the face of some particular fear.

Yes, faith is a gift.......but please make no mistake about it........we wait on God for things..........and God waits on us for things.
This obedience that God desires to see out of us is always a trust building work of God in our lives. We all have the same doctrine that we hold to.......the doctrinal teachings of Jesus.....but we do not have all the same specific call.......which is uniquely tailored by God via the Holy Spirit.

Notice the biblical pattern from the Old Testament through the New.......God gave the promise to protect........but He asked them to put on courage, while trusting Him in the face of their fears.

I believe the same pattern shows up in the lives of those who are truely "walking in the spirit".

With love in Christ, Daniel

Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 6 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
your point?

My point is those scriptures speak for themselves. [Roll Eyes] If you have a problem with the word take it up with the Lord. [Frown]
If u can't rightfully divide the WORD, I am here for the Lord 2 make shur you do.
Your pride in yourself is evident. [Roll Eyes] Maybe thats why you cannot bear the verses i quoted above. [Smile]

John 16:12
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Only the Lord loads me up. Not u.
Galatians 6
1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3 For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5 For every man shall bear his own burden.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Barry44 and oneinChrist, everybody,

Why does everyone assume that I disregard the importance of obedience? I am not Paul, but these are the same arguments he faced, as I posted above.

“What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but under grace? God forbid” (Romans 6:15)


Will this article help?

It has to do with how we see the Lord. Some people choose to believe that our Lord is small and insignificant enough that we can not believe Him, not trust Him, not obey Him, not love Him. The One I worship is not so small. He is glorious and wonderful and almighty beyond words. And I know when He wants me to do something, He also empowers me to do it.

“Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.” (Jude 24-25)

Christ didn’t say believe in yourself but believe in Him.

Jude is saying that God is in control of keeping our salvation secure. We cannot fall away or run away from the grace of God because He is able to keep us from doing so.

If God does not have this great power, then we should be very much afraid. If the Lord can’t hold on to me, what hope is there? If salvation isn’t God’s work, then I’m not going to get there. Do you understand that? If it’s not His work and He doesn’t hold me, and He doesn’t keep me, and He doesn’t preserve me, I won’t make it. If God doesn’t save me, I can’t save myself. If He doesn’t sanctify me, I can’t sanctify myself. And if He doesn’t glorify me, I can’t glorify myself. If He doesn’t keep me, I can’t keep myself. I’m not good enough to save myself and I’m certainly not good enough to keep myself. I will never be worthy of salvation. I wasn’t in the past, I’m not now.

Our salvation and the sustaining of our salvation is not dependant on our good works or our righteousness but on God’s mighty power.

If we are responsible for holding on to our salvation rather than God holding onto us, then we will receive glory for doing so, but God pursues His own glory rather than ours. If the guarantee of our salvation is dependent on us rather than God, then when we get to heaven we could brag about what a great job we did rather than glorify God for the wonderful work He did in us.

“No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” (1 Corinthians 10:13)

Every situation we walk into will not be able to conquer us because we are not dependant on our strength but on His mighty strength.

http://christianschmidt.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/jude-24-25-able-to-keep-you-from-stumbling/

As long as we abide in Christ, we will be filled with the Holy Spirit, we will experience the fruit of the Spirit, and we will do those good works prepared for us to do.

Does anyone think we can abide in Christ, be filled with the Holy Spirit, and do the good works prepared for us to do if we are NOT obedient? Does anyone think we can be obedient if we are not filled with the Spirit?

Ephesians 2:10 (NASB)
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Barry44, you quoted a few verses from 1 Peter 1. Let me quote the whole chapter. It is far more encouraging than those few verses would indicate. The same is true of James 1...you quoted a few "scary" sounding verses, but only because they were out of context. I think this is why WildB challenged you, for quoting out of context. As for Hebrews, it's the most misunderstood book in the Bible. It was written to Hebrews who had been raised under the law, but they were learning to live by Grace. They were persecuted for their faith and missed the security of Judaism. Anyway, here's 1 Peter 1:

1 Peter 1 (NLT)

1 This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. 2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.

The Hope of Eternal Life

3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay. 5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by his power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.

6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. 7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

8 You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy. 9 The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.

10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you. 11 They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about when he told them in advance about Christ’s suffering and his great glory afterward.

12 They were told that their messages were not for themselves, but for you. And now this Good News has been announced to you by those who preached in the power of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. It is all so wonderful that even the angels are eagerly watching these things happen.

A Call to Holy Living

13 So think clearly and exercise self-control. Look forward to the gracious salvation that will come to you when Jesus Christ is revealed to the world. 14 So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. 15 But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. 16 For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.”

17 And remember that the heavenly Father to whom you pray has no favorites. He will judge or reward you according to what you do. So you must live in reverent fear of him during your time as “foreigners in the land.” 18 For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. 19 It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

21 Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And you have placed your faith and hope in God because he raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory.

22 You were cleansed from your sins when you obeyed the truth, so now you must show sincere love to each other as brothers and sisters. Love each other deeply with all your heart.

23 For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. 24 As the Scriptures say,

“People are like grass;
their beauty is like a flower in the field.
The grass withers and the flower fades.
25 But the word of the Lord remains forever.”

And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneinchrist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Carol,
Sorry, I thought you would understand me better with my illustration.
Where do you get the idea that I portray that we somehow work totally independent of the Lord to accomplish His plan in our lives?


With love in Christ, Daniel

Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 17 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oneinchrist, I never said that. But you said

quote:
As we are walking in the spirit, the spirit is purposely going to leave us with certain specific Carol/Daniel designed choices to make, in which we can obey or disobey .
Sometimes doing the right thing, doing what the Lord wants us to do, is difficult and even painful. The early church is proof of that.

Jesus said those who love Him will obey Him. The thought of betraying His love...I can't even think about it. That doesn't mean I don't fail sometimes from weakness and stupidity; it means I don't choose to be weak and stupid on purpose.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 14 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Barry44, you quoted a few verses from 1 Peter 1. Let me quote the whole chapter. It is far more encouraging than those few verses would indicate. The same is true of James 1...you quoted a few "scary" sounding verses, but only because they were out of context. I think this is why WildB challenged you, for quoting out of context. As for Hebrews, it's the most misunderstood book in the Bible. It was written to Hebrews who had been raised under the law, but they were learning to live by Grace. They were persecuted for their faith and missed the security of Judaism. Anyway, here's 1 Peter 1:

1 Peter 1 (NLT)

1 This letter is from Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ.

I am writing to God’s chosen people who are living as foreigners in the provinces of Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. 2 God the Father knew you and chose you long ago, and his Spirit has made you holy. As a result, you have obeyed him and have been cleansed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

May God give you more and more grace and peace.

The Hope of Eternal Life

3 All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is by his great mercy that we have been born again, because God raised Jesus Christ from the dead. Now we live with great expectation, 4 and we have a priceless inheritance—an inheritance that is kept in heaven for you, pure and undefiled, beyond the reach of change and decay. 5 And through your faith, God is protecting you by his power until you receive this salvation, which is ready to be revealed on the last day for all to see.

6 So be truly glad. There is wonderful joy ahead, even though you have to endure many trials for a little while. 7 These trials will show that your faith is genuine. It is being tested as fire tests and purifies gold—though your faith is far more precious than mere gold. So when your faith remains strong through many trials, it will bring you much praise and glory and honor on the day when Jesus Christ is revealed to the whole world.

8 You love him even though you have never seen him. Though you do not see him now, you trust him; and you rejoice with a glorious, inexpressible joy. 9 The reward for trusting him will be the salvation of your souls.

10 This salvation was something even the prophets wanted to know more about when they prophesied about this gracious salvation prepared for you. 11 They wondered what time or situation the Spirit of Christ within them was talking about when he told them in advance about Christ’s suffering and his great glory afterward.

12 They were told that their messages were not for themselves, but for you. And now this Good News has been announced to you by those who preached in the power of the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. It is all so wonderful that even the angels are eagerly watching these things happen.

A Call to Holy Living

13 So think clearly and exercise self-control. Look forward to the gracious salvation that will come to you when Jesus Christ is revealed to the world. 14 So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. 15 But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. 16 For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.”

17 And remember that the heavenly Father to whom you pray has no favorites. He will judge or reward you according to what you do. So you must live in reverent fear of him during your time as “foreigners in the land.” 18 For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. 19 It was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God. 20 God chose him as your ransom long before the world began, but he has now revealed him to you in these last days.

21 Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And you have placed your faith and hope in God because he raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory.

22 You were cleansed from your sins when you obeyed the truth, so now you must show sincere love to each other as brothers and sisters. Love each other deeply with all your heart.

23 For you have been born again, but not to a life that will quickly end. Your new life will last forever because it comes from the eternal, living word of God. 24 As the Scriptures say,

“People are like grass;
their beauty is like a flower in the field.
The grass withers and the flower fades.
25 But the word of the Lord remains forever.”

And that word is the Good News that was preached to you.

And the Lord gave some TEACHERS and some watch dogs that can only bark and grawl.

Carry on and thanX.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 21 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
YARP YARP YARP  - yarp yarp yarp YARP YARP YARP
Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 1 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
YARP YARP YARP  - yarp yarp yarp YARP YARP YARP

No no Im the watch dog. No fair.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 7 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Okay

 - Then I'm the cat's meow LOL

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 14 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
that u r

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Barry44, you quoted a few verses from 1 Peter 1. Let me quote the whole chapter. It is far more encouraging than those few verses would indicate. The same is true of James 1... I think this is why WildB challenged you, for quoting out of context. As for Hebrews, it's the most misunderstood book in the Bible. It was written to Hebrews who had been raised under the law, but they were learning to live by Grace. They were persecuted for their faith and missed the security of Judaism. Anyway, here's 1 Peter 1:

The bible is all about hope and encouraging believers to have faith in God. All throughout the NT the writers give us truth and confidnce toward God. They also warn christians about how to live a holy life and not to be decieved.

quote:
you quoted a few "scary" sounding verses, but only because they were out of context.
Does this scare you also? Don't tell me its out of context and about Israel. The example he talks about is Israel for christians to follow.

Hebrews 4:11-12
"Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart

Hebrews 3
Today when you hear his voice, 8 don't harden your hearts as Israel did when they rebelled,
when they tested me in the wilderness.
9 There your ancestors tested and tried my patience, even though they saw my miracles for forty years. 10 So I was angry with them, and I said, `Their hearts always turn away from me.
They refuse to do what I tell them.' 11 So in my anger I took an oath: `They will never enter my place of rest.'" 12 Be careful then, dear brothers and sisters. Make sure that your own hearts are not evil and unbelieving, turning you away from the living God. 13 You must warn each other every day, while it is still "today," so that none of you will be deceived by sin and hardened against God. 14 For if we are faithful to the end, trusting God just as firmly as when we first believed, we will share in all that belongs to Christ. 15 Remember what it says:

"Today when you hear his voice,
don't harden your hearts
as Israel did when they rebelled."


Alot of the bible verses must scare you, according to your quote. None of those verses were out of context, You can't pick and choose verses you like and ignore the ones you don't. If you do you will not understand the meaning.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bloodbought     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Barry44. To me, the scriptures you post sound as if you believe that Carol, or someone on this BBS is on the edge of falling away?

I discern Carol as being a faithful believer who has no fear of falling away because she is not trusting in her own faithfulness, but in the faithfulness of God to save and keep those who believe. Those who put their trust in Christ alone for salvation have gone on to perfection (Hebrews 6:1) because He alone is perfection.

I would encourage you to read Carol's posts again.

Did you check out this link that she posted?

http://christianschmidt.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/jude-24-25-able-to-keep-you-from-stumbling/

Posts: 818 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
Barry44. To me, the scriptures you post sound as if you believe that Carol, or someone on this BBS is on the edge of falling away?

I discern Carol as being a faithful believer who has no fear of falling away because she is not trusting in her own faithfulness, but in the faithfulness of God to save and keep those who believe. Those who put their trust in Christ alone for salvation have gone on to perfection (Hebrews 6:1) because He alone is perfection.

I would encourage you to read Carol's posts again.

Did you check out this link that she posted?

http://christianschmidt.wordpress.com/2010/08/16/jude-24-25-able-to-keep-you-from-stumbling/

.................................................

I'm not saying anyone is falling away, The title of this thread is another gospel. Read the First post below.

quote:
Paul the Apostle states in Galatians 1:6, "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel." What Paul referred to here as "another gospel" was the danger of adding human works (specifically keeping of the Jewish Law) to the finished work of Christ.
They were adding the keeping of the law of circumcision and the Dietary laws to the new covenant in Christ, to be right with God. My point is the moral law, the ten commandments are still in effect today in the Spirit of Law and not in the letter of the law.

Paul Confronts Peter
Galatians 2
11 But when Peter came to Antioch, I had to oppose him to his face, for what he did was very wrong. 12 When he first arrived, he ate with the Gentile Christians, who were not circumcised. But afterward, when some friends of James came, Peter wouldn't eat with the Gentiles anymore. He was afraid of criticism from these people who insisted on the necessity of circumcision. 13 As a result, other Jewish Christians followed Peter's hypocrisy, and even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy.
14 When I saw that they were not following the truth of the gospel message, I said to Peter in front of all the others, "Since you, a Jew by birth, have discarded the Jewish laws and are living like a Gentile, why are you now trying to make these Gentiles follow the Jewish traditions?

We as christians don't keep the law of Moses, but The moral Law, the ten commandments are still in effect today. That was my point. I'm glad to see people like Carol and others of strong faith in God, [Smile] but as you know thier are other christians as the bible says who are weak in faith. They need to hear all the scriptures about obeying God and living a Godly life.

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneinchrist     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi again Carol,

One of your posts said:
If the guarantee of our salvation is dependent on us rather than God, then when we get to heaven we could brag about what a great job we did rather than glorify God for the wonderful work He did in us.

Carol, would you agree with me that there is a huge difference between someone who brags about what a great job they did vs. someone who has a quieter and more humble faith in the Lord?

When the Lord commands us to be faithful to the end.......He is commanding us to put on courage in the face of adversity, to stand firm in the truth, continue in His doctrine, and remain committed to His cause.........and yes, I agree with you that we will do this if we love Him and continue to depend on Him as our source of strength and direction.

I think you may have noticed by now that I am not a believer in that faith is suddenly zapped into us by God. Faith is a gift, yes, but in the sense that "faith cometh by hearing, and that of hearing the word of God".
Show me a man who has faith........and I will show you a man who has heard, understood, and kept Gods word in their heart.
Also, I believe that our faith is tested in what we do with our gifts and knowledge. Have we been putting to use what He has given us so far? If not, how can we expect to be entrusted with more?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Barry44 [thumbsup2]

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Barry44 [thumbsup2]

[thumbsup2]

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi again Carol,

One of your posts said:
If the guarantee of our salvation is dependent on us rather than God, then when we get to heaven we could brag about what a great job we did rather than glorify God for the wonderful work He did in us.

Carol, would you agree with me that there is a huge difference between someone who brags about what a great job they did vs. someone who has a quieter and more humble faith in the Lord?

When the Lord commands us to be faithful to the end.......He is commanding us to put on courage in the face of adversity, to stand firm in the truth, continue in His doctrine, and remain committed to His cause.........and yes, I agree with you that we will do this if we love Him and continue to depend on Him as our source of strength and direction.

I think you may have noticed by now that I am not a believer in that faith is suddenly zapped into us by God. Faith is a gift, yes, but in the sense that "faith cometh by hearing, and that of hearing the word of God".
Show me a man who has faith........and I will show you a man who has heard, understood, and kept Gods word in their heart.
Also, I believe that our faith is tested in what we do with our gifts and knowledge. Have we been putting to use what He has given us so far? If not, how can we expect to be entrusted with more?

With love in Christ, Daniel

[thumbsup2]

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Bloodbought     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
We as christians don't keep the law of Moses, but The moral Law, the ten commandments are still in effect today. That was my point. I'm glad to see people like Carol and others of strong faith in God, but as you know thier are other christians as the bible says who are weak in faith. They need to hear all the scriptures about obeying God and living a Godly life.

Hi Barry44.
The Ten Commandments teach us what sin is, but we can’t keep the Ten Commandments. Salvation is not based on keeping the law. We are justified by faith in Christ plus nothing else. When our dependence is in Christ, His Spirit within us guides us on the right path. Trying to live by rules show a lack of faith.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

We are complete in Christ. Anyone who teaches otherwise is teaching another gospel.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Posts: 818 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Betty Louise     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I agree Bloodbrought.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 3208 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Barry44   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[QUOTE] Hi Barry44.
The Ten Commandments teach us what sin is, but we can’t keep the Ten Commandments. Salvation is not based on keeping the law. We are justified by faith in Christ plus nothing else. When our dependence is in Christ, His Spirit within us guides us on the right path. Trying to live by rules show a lack of faith [/QUOTE
.................................................

The people in the OT kept the law, they were judged by the law, The prophets for an example. If they can keep the commandments, We have the Holy Spirit of God in us. We cant keep them? I say its people who dont want to be set apart and obey.

The Law of Moses consists of alot more than just the ten commandments, thats why it was impossible to keep. You need to go to the OT and study the law. Now, Jesus brings us up to the level of the law (Spirit of the law)and through the Holy Spirit you can keep the ten commamments (letter of the law). If you obey God and His word. Example: Love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself, that is keeping the ten commandments in the Spirit of love.


The Most Important Commandment:

Luke 10
25 One day an expert in religious law stood up to test Jesus by asking him this question: "Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?"
26 Jesus replied, "What does the law of Moses say? How do you read it?"
27 The man answered, "`You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, `Love your neighbor as yourself.'" [27]
28 "Right!" Jesus told him. 'Do this and you will live!"

'Notice' Jesus asked him, How do you read it?"
the man gave the correct answer, but he was not willing to obey!


The Spirit of the law toward God: Love God with all your heart.

1. I am the LORD your God… 'You shall have no other gods before Me.'
2. 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.'
3. 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.'
4.'Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.'


The Spirit of the law toward your neighbor: and your neighbor as yourself.

5. 'Honor your father and your mother.'
6. 'You shall not murder.'
7. 'You shall not commit adultery.'
8. 'You shall not steal.'
9. 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.'
10. 'You shall not covet

Trying to keep the ten commandments(the letter of the law)in the flesh without being born by the Spirit is impossible. [Smile]

--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php

Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Barry44

quote:
The bible is all about hope and encouraging believers to have faith in God. All throughout the NT the writers give us truth and confidnce toward God. They also warn christians about how to live a holy life and not to be decieved.
Agreed!

quote:
Alot of the bible verses must scare you, according to your quote. None of those verses were out of context, You can't pick and choose verses you like and ignore the ones you don't. If you do you will not understand the meaning.
No, the Word of God does not scare me, even verses taken out of context. But such verses can be discouraging to those who visit us looking for hope and answers.

quote:
Trying to keep the ten commandments(the letter of the law)in the flesh without being born by the Spirit is impossible.
True

quote:
The people in the OT kept the law, they were judged by the law, The prophets for an example. If they can keep the commandments, We have the Holy Spirit of God in us. We cant keep them? I say its people who dont want to be set apart and obey.


The ONLY one who ever kept the law and lived a sinless life was Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:9 - 31 (NASB)

9What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. 21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

It is the Holy Spirit within us who is able to obey and to do good works through us.

We cannot do these because even if our behavior is good the secret motives of our hearts are corrupted by our sin nature. Obedience is not just behavior, but thoughts, emotions, and subconscious motivations as well.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 18 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Obedience of Faith
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Modern "theologians" have tried their best to fill today's pulpits (and airwaves) with messengers heralding a gospel of easy-believism. Despite their best efforts, I'm still persuaded that there is still a remnant out there who preach and believe the true gospel of Jesus Christ. It is with this in mind, that I decided to write about "the obedience of faith." To the honest student of scripture, it becomes evident that there is an intrinsic link between believing and "behaving." The devil likes nothing more than when he can convince people there is no correlation between what one believes/professes and what they actually do. So much is said in the Word of God about obedience. The word appears many times in the New Testament alone. I challenge you to just do a word study sometime on "obedience", "obey", "obeyed", etc. and see what you come up with . I think you might be surprised to see the results. What you will quickly learn, is that God is concerned not only with what we say and think, but how we behave. Because we have a limited amount of space to devote to this topic today, I'm just going to use a few examples from various writers of scripture. They all bring their own unique personalities to the table and put things a little differently, but the message is the same. True faith produces obedience....otherwise it is not saving faith at all!

I quoted Paul above from the book of Romans (1:5 & 16:26) when he speaks of the "obedience of faith." I find it interesting that many liberal theologians have chosen Paul as their "spokesperson" to champion their cause. No doubt it's because Paul made it clear that salvation was not through "works of the law" but by faith that we are saved. Numerous times Paul declared that we are not made righteous by the works of the law but by grace through faith. This is indeed valid and true. The problem however comes in when we decide that faith is active where no obedience is present. In Paul's great treatise on justification by faith (the book of Romans), I find it poignant and fitting that he frames the theology of this book between these terms "obedience of faith" (or obedience to the faith) in the first few verses and last few verses of Romans. He wants the readers of Romans to be clear that though faith justifies apart from works of the law, it operates and is active by obedience. I believe that the Holy Spirit knew that the writings of Paul would be used for unholy purposes and that's why He had Peter to pen these words of scripture:

II Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction

Peter admitted that some of Paul's writings are difficult to understand upon first glance. He also states that many will "wrest" (an old English word meaning to twist or distort) Paul's writings to their own destruction. We'll get to some of Peter's writings in a moment, but for now let's continue to look at how Paul linked believing to behavior:

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Here clearly Paul teaches that obedience is linked to righteousness and disobedience (or in this context "yielding to sin") produces death in all it's various forms.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Again Paul links spiritual life with the deeds of the body.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service

Paul often uses this term "I beseech you" in his letters. He is begging and pleading with his readers to heed the message. Romans 1-11 deal with the theology of the Christian faith. The first 2 and a half chapters deal with the guilt of the whole world. The next three chapters deal with justification by faith. Then in chapters 6-8 Paul contrasts living in the flesh and living in the Spirit. Chapters 9-11 deal with past, present, and future redemption for Israel. Chapter 12 is a transitional point and begins the practical application of the theology. Notice chapter 12 uses the pronoun "therefore" as a conjunction. Paul has just described in great detail God's plan of salvation throughout the ages. He then makes an appeal for his readers to live a holy life in light of everything God has done to provide a means of atonement. Thus their behavior is linked to their theology.

Now let's look at what James has to say about believing and behaving- or as this article is titled "the obedience of faith."

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Many of the reformers had a disdain for the book of James because of it's practical application of faith. In their zeal to sever all ties with Roman Catholicism, I'm afraid that the "reformers" did a very poor job of emphasizing the need for obedience to the faith. The impression that many of them have given-and sadly this thought is very prevalent among reformed churches- is that believing takes the place of behaving. Apparently this was a problem in James' day too, otherwise he wouldn't have addressed such a problem. Here he states that it really doesn't matter what a person says, but what they do.

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works

Here we are introduced to the concept of two different kinds of faith....living (or saving faith)...and dead! James challenges the reader by showing that outward obedience is a manifest token of authentic faith. Of course we must be careful here to note the order of progression. The works do not produce the faith, but rather the authentic faith will produce the works. I must be careful to point this out, lest anyone think that I'm promoting a righteousness by works theology.

James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

If all one has is a said faith/verbal profession, he is merely on equal footing with the devil- for even they (the demons) believe....and tremble. He further goes on to say that it is vanity or foolishness to believe that faith without obedience will save- he declares it to be dead faith.

Next let's look at what Peter has to say about obedience to the faith. We noted earlier that he warned against those who distort Paul's writings. Peter's epistles have a very strong and straightforward demand for obedience and holiness. I think that's why it's so important for us to rightly divide the word of truth, in order that we might see the whole picture. Some focus only on the judgment of God and never the love- others focus only on the grace of God, and never the holiness of God. We must understand God (as much as we can understand him with a finite mind) on His terms and in all of His communicable attributes...not just the ones we prefer.

I Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied

Peter says that we are elected and sanctified by the Spirit so that we might obey Jesus Christ. God has called and chosen us so that we might walk in the obedience of faith. Peter appeals to the holiness of God as the reason for our command to obey and be holy. God never asks us to do something we are incapable of. Of course the natural man is incapable of serving God, but through the power of the Holy Spirit we can indeed be holy just as we are commanded :

I Peter 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy

Because of the judgment to come, Peter appeals to all of his readers to obey God. There will come a day when judgment will "begin at the house of God."

I Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

What about those who do not obey God? What will be their fate? I think we all know the answers to these questions. Peter also appeals to the eschatological implications of the coming of the Lord. Jesus is coming back for His church at any moment. Because we do not know the day or the hour, we are urged to live a holy life lest we be caught unaware.

II Peter 3:11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness

I think out of all the new testament writers (except for the teachings of Jesus Himself) ,the apostle John makes perhaps the most compelling link between belief and behavior. Let's look at some of his remarks concerning this topic:

I John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother

John leaves no ambiguity as to what his theology entails. It is a theology of belief and obedience. I think it is worth noting that he says in verse 7 above "let no man deceive you." He was well aware (as we should be too) that one of the hallmarks of satanic doctrine is to subtly deceive people into believing that their actions have no bearing on their salvation. John sharply rebukes this by saying that the one who practices righteousness is righteous....the one who does not...is following the devil.

Of course the greatest of all figures in the New Testament, the Lord Jesus Christ, had much to say about obedience as well. Let's look at some of His comments. I will leave off commentary on them and just post the scriptures, because His words are so pure and straightforward, they need no additional remarks. :

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock. 6:49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love

There is much more we could say about the specifics of the obedience of faith, but suffice it to say that just in this short article we have enough compelling evidence to show that believing and behaving are inseparable. God bless you as you continue to study His Word! Truth Ablaze

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917

Icon 19 posted      Profile for WildB   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"The Obedience of Faith
Romans 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name"

It never seizes s to amaze me how you ALWAYS walk right by the GRACE that one MUST RECEIVE for obedience to the faith.

--------------------
That is all.....

Posts: 7215 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 16 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
becauseHelives

quote:
I quoted Paul above from the book of Romans (1:5 & 16:26) when he speaks of the "obedience of faith." I find it interesting that many liberal theologians have chosen Paul as their "spokesperson" to champion their cause. No doubt it's because Paul made it clear that salvation was not through "works of the law" but by faith that we are saved. Numerous times Paul declared that we are not made righteous by the works of the law but by grace through faith. This is indeed valid and true. The problem however comes in when we decide that faith is active where no obedience is present.
I agree. I am as opposed to the extreme of license as I am opposed to the extreme of legalism.

Romans 8

1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.

The Law cannot claim you (v. 2).
You have been made free from the law of sin and death. You now have life in the Spirit. You have moved into a whole new sphere of life in Christ. “The law of sin and death” is what Paul described in Romans 7:7-25. “The law of the Spirit of life” is described in Romans 8. The Law no longer has any jurisdiction over you: you are dead to the Law (Rom. 7:4) and free from the Law (Rom. 8:2).

3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

The Law cannot condemn you (v. 3).
Why? Because Christ has already suffered that condemnation for you on the cross. The Law could not save; it can only condemn. But God sent His Son to save us and do what the Law could not do. Jesus did not come as an angel; He came as a man. He did not come “in sinful flesh,” for that would have made Him a sinner. He came in the likeness of sinful flesh, as a man. He bore our sins in His body on the cross.

The “law of double jeopardy” states that a man cannot be tried twice for the same crime. Since Jesus Christ paid the penalty for your sins, and since you are “in Christ,” God will not condemn you.

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

The Law cannot control you (v. 4).
The believer lives a righteous life, not in the power of the Law, but in the power of the Holy Spirit. The Law does not have the power to produce holiness; it can only reveal and condemn sin. But the indwelling Holy Spirit enables you to walk in obedience to God’s will. The righteousness that God demands in His Law is fulfilled in you through the Spirit’s power. In the Holy Spirit, you have life and liberty (Rom. 8:2) and “the pursuit of happiness” (Rom. 8:4).

The legalist tries to obey God in his own strength and fails to measure up to the righteousness that God demands. The Spirit-led Christian, as he yields to the Lord, experiences the sanctifying work of the Spirit in his life. “For it is God that worketh in you, both to will and to do of His good pleasure” (Phil. 2:13).

Does this mean that a Christian can live any way he wants to and still be saved? This is essentially a hypothetical question, because the Bible makes it clear that a true Christian will not live "any way he wants to." Christians are new creations (2 Corinthians 5:17). Christians demonstrate the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), not the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21). First John 3:6-9 clearly states that a true Christian will not live in continual sin. In response to the accusation that grace promotes sin, the apostle Paul declared, "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?" (Romans 6:1-2).

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Betty Louise     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The closer we walk with God the more sin stinks to us. Our love for God should make us walk as close to God as we can and not try to see how close we can get to sin and not burn our clothes.
Betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 3208 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Exactly Betty [thumbsup2]

GRACE

“Grace is what God may be free to do, and indeed what he does, accordingly, for the lost after Christ has died on behalf of them” (Lewis Sperry Chafer, Systematic Theology, 7:178).

It is thus apparent that God’s grace is to be distinguished from His mercy and love (Ephes. 2:4-5), “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).”

Mercy is therefore the compassion of God that moved Him to provide a Savior for the unsaved. Had God been able to save even one soul on the ground of His sovereign mercy alone, He could have saved every person on that basis, as Lewis Sperry Chafer points out, and the death of Christ would not have been a necessity.

Divine love on the other hand is the motivating plan behind all that God does in saving a soul. But since God is holy and righteous, and sin is a complete offense to Him, His love or His mercy cannot operate in grace until there is provided a sufficient satisfaction for sin.

This satisfaction makes possible the exercise of God’s grace. Grace thus rules out all human merit. It requires only faith in the Savior. Any intermixture of human merit violates grace. God’s grace thus provides not only salvation but safety and preservation for the one saved, despite his imperfections.

Grace perfects forever the saved one in the sight of God because of the saved one’s position “in Christ.” Grace bestows Christ’s merit and Christ’s standing forever (Romans 5:1-2; Romans 8:1; Col. 2:9-10); “for in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete.”

Grace thus obviates any obligation to gain merit, and the law as a merit system is no longer applicable to a believer, since he is no longer “under law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14). The problem of a holy life is met in the gospel of grace by the fact that the saved one has an entirely new position in grace instead of in Adam (Romans 5:12-20). And being baptized “into Christ” (Romans 6:1-11), he is “dead to sin, but alive to God.”

Knowledge of and faith in this glorious in-Christ position (Romans 6:11) is the key that makes it actual in the believer’s everyday experience. Rewards for faithfulness and practical holiness of life are to be dispensed, but this is a truth not to be confused with an unforfeitable and unmerited salvation.

(The New Unger's Bible Dictionary)

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Church Webs | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

The Christian Message Board Rules - Please Read

Christian Visual Media  Bible MP3  Hear Good News  Free Facebook Covers  Jesus Videos  Jesus
Christian Website Host  Watch Videos  Chat Christian Search Engine Evangelism  Graphics  Movies