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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » The Practical Beginning of the Body of Christ (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: The Practical Beginning of the Body of Christ
Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Carol what is so terrible is that the Bearen Bible Society reject Yahshua's teaching
not to mention the other New Testament writers all under the direction of the Holy Spirit...

yes the B B Society have some good teaching but that which is wrong teaching makes them very, very dangerous!

No, becauseHElives, they don't

We do not believe that the four gospels have no real message for the church—Paul says that ALL Scripture is profitable. However, we do believe (because we hold to a literal historical interpretation of the Bible) that Christ's earthly ministry was in keeping with Israel's prophetic kingdom program (Matt. 10:5-6; 15:24).

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1011392439.html

John 3:16-18 (NASB)
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The word gospel means “good news,” so the gospel of Christ is the good news of His coming to provide forgiveness of sins for all who will believe (Colossians 1:14; Romans 10:9). Since the first man’s sin, mankind has been under the condemnation of God (Romans 5:12). Because everyone breaks God’s perfect law by committing sin (Romans 3:23), everyone is guilty (Romans 5:18). The punishment for the crime of sin is death (Romans 6:23) and then an eternity spent in a place of punishment (Revelation 20:15; Matthew 25:46).

The bad news that all are guilty of sin and condemned by God is countered by the gospel, the good news of Jesus Christ. God, because of His love for the world, has made a way for man to be forgiven of their sins (John 3:16). He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to take the sins of mankind on Himself through death on a cross (1 Peter 2:24). In placing our sin on Christ, God ensured that all who will believe in the name of Jesus will be forgiven (Acts 10:43). Jesus’ resurrection guarantees the justification of all who believe (Romans 4:25).

Paul teaches:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (NASB)
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

The Berean Bible Society studies Paul, and Paul teaches the same gospel message as our Lord. So how can anyone say the BB Society rejects the teaching of our Lord as pertaining to salvation?

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
You don't believe in the Millennial Kingdom?
yes i believe in the Millennial Kingdom, Yahshua will be there too!
Yes He will! The King of the Kingdom!


Jesus’ kingdom would be established in the hearts of human beings who would be scattered among the political kingdoms of humankind.

This secret kingdom would not replace the messianic kingdom envisioned by the prophets. But the secret kingdom was the one that Jesus would establish here on earth at His first coming. The kingdom of power and glory would be established only when Jesus returned from heaven.

(From Every Teaching Of Jesus In The Bible by Larry Richards)

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
If it was not lawful for the Jewish disciples of Christ to go to the Gentiles, how could they hear and receive Christ? If the Gentiles did not hear the gospel they could not believe and receive Christ.
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
In Acts 2:8 they were all JEWS

5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.

6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

7They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans?

8"And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born?

quote:
the proselytes were Gentiles....correct and they were saved on Pentecost ....


The Bible does not refer to proselytes as Gentiles.

Cornelius and his household were uncircumcised Gentiles who were considered by the Jews to be unclean (Acts 10:28); proselytes, on the other hand, were granted fellowship by the Jews (i.e., they were not unclean; cf. Acts 2:10; 13:43). Following the conversion of Cornelius and his household, “the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, saying, ‘You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!’ ” (Acts 11:1-3)

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
this topic is about the beginning not the end if the church.....try to focus WildB....

Stop baiting that focus can be maintained.

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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this topic is about the beginning not the end if the church.....try to focus WildB....

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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by Pastor J. C. O'Hair


IT IS THE LAST TIME

We read in the Bible of “the end of the age”, “the last days”, “then cometh the end”, and “the last time.”

We quote I John 2:18 and 19.

“LITTLE CHILDREN, IT IS THE LAST TIME; AND AS YE HAVE HEARD THAT ANTICHRIST SHALL COME, EVEN NOW ARE THERE MANY ANTICHRISTS; WHEREBY WE KNOW THAT IT IS THE LAST TIME. THEY WENT OUT FROM US, BUT THEY WERE NOT OF US; FOR IF THEY HAD BEEN OF US, THEY WOULD NO DOUBT HAVE CONTINUED WITH US; BUT THEY WENT OUT, THAT THEY MIGHT BE MADE MANIFEST THAT THEY WERE NOT ALL OF US.”

There were many antichrists in John’s day. There was a falling away. From the time of John, down through the centuries, the Church passed through some perilous times. There were many heretics, false-prophets and corrupt religious leaders in the Church. Even the fundamental doctrine of Christianity was lost to most professing Christians for centuries. But it was recovered when Martin Luther and others proclaimed “justification by faith.” All during that dark period of the history of the Christian Church there was a remnant of spiritual faithful saints who knew that their hope was the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ to take the members of His Body to heaven.

“For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ; Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able to subdue all things unto Himself.” Philippians 3:20 and 21.

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ.” Titus 2:13.

“For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ Who is our life shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.” Colossians 3:3 and 4.

Note what Paul wrote to the saints at Corinth. “So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” “Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” I Corinthians 1:7 and I Corinthians 15:51 and 52.

Note what was written to the Hebrews “For yet a little while, and He that shall come will come, and will not tarry.” Hebrews 10:37.

“So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.” Hebrews 9:28.

The Christians of the first century were instructed to wait for, to look for, to confidently expect the Lord Jesus Christ to appear. They believed in the imminent coming of the Lord Jesus for His Church.

It is interesting to note the Greek word translated “shall come” in II Thessalonians 1:10. This word is “elthe”and should be translated “shall have come.” Note in II Thessalonians 1:7 to 9, that the return of the Lord Jesus Christ was expected in the first century. He would come in wrath and destruction upon the disobedient sinners. “When He shall have come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.” II Thessalonians 1:10.

Now remember John’s statement, “it is the last time.” Note what John wrote in connection with this—“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be; but we know that, when He shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as He is pure.” I John 3:2 and 3.

“And now, little children, abide in Him; that, when He shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.” I John 2:28.

This hope of the coming of Christ was a vital, blessed, purifying hope. And we remember the words of the Lord Jesus, in Luke 14:14—“And thou shalt be blessed for they cannot recompense thee; for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.”

At the time the Lord Jesus spoke these words none of His disciples knew any thing of the mystery of I Corinthians 15:51 and 52, or the blessed hope of Titus 2:13.

But all of the saints of the Lord were instructed by the Lord’s apostles to wait every day, and to look every moment for the glorious appearing of the Lord Jesus for His Church. They believed in the imminent coming of the Lord Jesus for His Church. This is called by some Christians “the any-moment theory”. With those Christians it was no theory, but the blessed hope that caused them to be practical Christians., They were not told to wait until Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, and the Emperor of Japan entered into a pact and conspiracy against the rest of the world, in 1940 A.D., before they could expect Christ to redeem their bodies. They were waiting for God’s Son from heaven in John’s day.

They knew the difference between the blessed hope of Titus 2:13, that Christ would appear for His Body, and the second coming of the Son of man for Israel’s redemption, and to judge the world, as recorded in Luke 21:27 to 32, and Matthew 25:31.

THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN

“AND THEN SHALL THEY SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY. AND WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS, FOR YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH. AND HE SPAKE TO THEM A PARABLE; BEHOLD THE FIG TREE, AND ALL THE TREES; WHEN THEY NOW SHOOT FORTH, YE SEE AND KNOW OF YOUR OWN SELVES THAT SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND SO LIKEWISE YE, WHEN YE SEE THESE THINGS COME TO PASS, KNOW YE THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND. VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, THIS GENERATION SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, TILL ALL BE FULFILLED.” Luke 21:27 to 32.

“ When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.” Matthew 25:31.

This has nothing to do with the redemption of the Church. Members of the Body of Christ are already redeemed.

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will. To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved. In Whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace.” Ephesians 1:5 to 7.

“Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.” Ephesians 1:14.

“And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.” Ephesians 4:30.

The bodies of the members of the Body of Christ will be redeemed by the appearing of Christ for His Church. Christ is not “the Son of man” to His Church.

When Christ comes for His Church He will find more Christians on this earth, and more faith on this earth, than ever before. There are more genuine Christians in Chicago today than ever lived at any one time in Jerusalem, Corinth, Ephesus, Rome, or in any other city. When the Lord Jesus comes for His Church there will be many faithful saints here. But when He comes as the Son of man to the earth, He will not find faith on the earth. Luke 18:8. Christ is not coming to the earth for the Church which is His Body. He is not coming to the earth for His Church. His Church is going to rise to meet Him. Christ is not coming for His Church as “the Son of man.” That is His title to Israel. Note again, Matthew 25:31—“When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.”

THE LAST DAYS OF ACTS

Now let us consider the last days of Acts 2:16 and 17 and Acts 15:16.

“But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams.”

“After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.”

These verses should have very serious, diligent, prayerful consideration.

Here we have prophecies of Israel’s Old Testament prophets concerning Israel’s last days. The two prophets are Joel and Amos, Read carefully the second chapter of Joel and the last part of Amos, chapter nine, and you will learn that both of these Israelitish prophets wrote concerning the coming kingdom age of Israel. This present age of grace, during which the Body of Christ is being completed, is not Israel’s kingdom age; and therefore, neither Joel nor Amos was referring to this dispensation. Neither Joel nor Amos said one word about the beginning of this age, or about the course of this age, or about the culmination of this age. They were the sons of men in other ages to whom the Holy Spirit revealed nothing concerning “the Church of the Mystery.”


Note Colossians 1:24 to 26.

“Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for His Body’s sake, which is the Church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the Word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to His saints.”

This agrees with Ephesians 3:5 to 8.

“Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. That the Gentiles should be joint-heirs, and of the same (Joint) Body, and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel; Whereunto I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto Me by the effectual working of His power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ.”

Truth concerning the Joint-Body, the Church of the Mystery, is called “the unsearchable (unprophesied) riches of Christ.” This truth was God’s mystery, God’s secret at the time Joel and Amos wrote concerning Israel’s “last days”. They knew nothing and therefore they wrote nothing concerning the Joint-Body of Ephesians 3:6, the Church of the Mystery.

Then surely we know that no member of the Body of Christ is receiving the Holy Spirit or any other spiritual blessing in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy. If members of Christ’s Body are being blessed with all spiritual blessings, in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy, or are becoming members of the Church of the Mystery, in fulfillment of Amos’ prophecy, then Paul was deluded when he wrote Colossians and Ephesians.

No! Paul did not err. He wrote to save us from the faulty dispensationalism of the present day Fundamentalists who teach that “the Church of the Mystery”, “the dispensation of the mystery” (Ephesians 3:9), “the dispensation of the grace of God for Gentiles” (Ephesians 3:1 to 3), “the unsearchable riches of Christ”, began on a Jewish holy day, Pentecost, when Peter used the keys of the kingdom of heaven to devout Jews from every nation under heaven. (Acts 2:5.
Note the clear language of Peter in Acts 2:16—Acts 3:24—Acts 15:15.

“BUT THIS IS THAT WHICH WAS SPOKEN BY THE PROPHET JOEL.” “YEA, AND ALL THE PROPHETS FROM SAMUEL AND THOSE THAT FOLLOW AFTER, AS MANY AS HAVE SPOKEN, HAVE LIKEWISE FORETOLD OF THESE DAYS.”

“AND TO THIS AGREE THE WORDS OF THE PROPHETS; AS IT IS WRITTEN.”

All that Peter preached to Israel and concerning the salvation of the household of Cornelius was in fulfillment of, in agreement with, Joel, Amos, Moses, Samuel, David, and all of the other prophets who wrote. They foretold the program of Acts 15:14—“Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.” “To this agree the words of the prophets (Amos).”

Therefore this prophecy has no reference to the Church of the Mystery, concerning which Amos knew nothing.

The doctrine of “the any-moment coming of Christ for His Church” is wholly irreconcilable with the teaching that His coming is imminent because of what the Gentile rulers of Europe and Asia are doing at present.

It is a mistake, yea, a serious dispensational blunder to call “the last days” concerning Israel’s kingdom, the first days of the Church, or Body, of the mystery.

“The dispensation of the mystery” did not begin with Peter, Israel and Pentecost, but with Paul when and because Israel was set aside after the death of one of the twelve apostles. (Acts 12:1 and 2)

As long as the number of apostles remained twelve, (Peter and the eleven), God had a kingdom program for the twelve tribes of Israel. But note Acts 13:2—Acts 13:46 and Acts 14:27. “As they ministered to the Lord and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.”

“Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold and said, It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you; but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”

“And when they were come, and had gathered the Church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how He had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.”

A new movement began with Acts 13:46. God has not abandoned His program prophesied by Joel and Amos, concerning Israel’s last days. The kingdom is in abeyance. Israel’s kingdom covenants have been interrupted for a parenthetical “grace” period.

God will fulfill Acts 15:16—“After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up.” Yes, He will pour out His Spirit, in fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy, after the Church of the Mystery has been completed, “the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.” Ephesians 1:23.

Note again Acts 3:24:

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”

“These days”. What days? Not the days of the dispensation of the grace of God. Israel’s kingdom days.

THE END TIME

In the light of the foregoing we should be very careful to qualify the question, “Are we living in the end time?” What end time? The members of the Body of Christ will not be here during the “time of the end”, mentioned in Daniel. This present period is a parenthesis. Daniel received revelations and answers from the God of heaven, but nothing concerning the revelation of this age which Christ gave to Paul.

Every member of the Body of Christ should know the difference between “the signs of the times” and “the times of the signs,”. This is not the “sign” age. We are looking for the Son and not for signs. Let’s keep busy with God’s program as set forth in II Timothy 1:7 to 10 and Titus 2:11 to 14.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner; but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God: Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, Who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.”

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

We are not told to look to Europe for the coming of Christ. “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself.” Philippians 3:20 and 21.

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That is all.....

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
If it was not lawful for the Jewish disciples of Christ to go to the Gentiles, how could they hear and receive Christ? If the Gentiles did not hear the gospel they could not believe and receive Christ.
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
1 Corinthians, Chapter 14, 022: Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not:

You better go back and study what sermon Pete did preach and then com-pair it to Pauls Commission from Christ.

Just say-in.

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That is all.....

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WildB
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Dale I would of stayed and played your game but I had too go deep into the swamp with a neighbor to retrieve a nice size buck. We were so far back that we had to poll carry it back.

I commented to him that this is just a little bit what the weight of that cross Christ did carry.

He said yes indeed. We had to stop several times to catch our breath.

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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quote:
You don't believe in the Millennial Kingdom?
yes i believe in the Millennial Kingdom, Yahshua will be there too!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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becauseHElives
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quote:
If it was not lawful for the Jewish disciples of Christ to go to the Gentiles, how could they hear and receive Christ? If the Gentiles did not hear the gospel they could not believe and receive Christ.
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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You don't believe in the Millennial Kingdom?
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Oh Dale Dale Dale.

How long must I suffer your sillyness.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

So you don't believe the Kingdom of Yahweh has come now (Among) (in the Midst of) hearts of men and women through Grace. The Kingdom of Yahweh in not a fiscal Kingdom, The Kingdom of Yahweh is anywhere Yahshua is....in Heaven or Earth

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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The Unsearchable Riches of Christ

by Pastor J. C. O'Hair

CHRIST CAME UNTO HIS OWN

“HE WAS IN THE WORLD, AND THE WORLD WAS MADE BY HIM, AND THE WORLD KNEW HIM NOT. HE CAME UNTO HIS OWN, AND HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT. BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM GAVE HE POWER TO BECOME THE SONS OF GOD, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME.” John 1:10 to 12.

Here we have the statement that Christ’s own received Him not. His own refers to the Jews. But note these statements:

John 2:23; Many believed in His name.

John 4:39 to 41; Many more believed on Him.

John 7:31; Many of the people believed on Him.

John 8:30; Many believed.

John 10:42; Many believed on Him.

John 11:45; Many of the Jews believed on Him.

After reading these statements then read John 12:37 to 40:

“ But though He had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on Him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.”

Thus we have the statements that “many believed on Him” and “His own received Him not”. Note the question of the Pharisees: “Have any of the rulers or of the Pharisees believed on Him?” John 7:48

Most of the rulers of Israel neither believed nor received Christ. We see then that the Lord Jesus, while on earth, was not only offering salvation to individual Jews, but was presenting Himself and His kingdom to the Nation Israel. “But His own received Him not.” They knew not the time of their visitation. Luke 19:44. They knew not the things that belonged to their peace. Luke 19:42.

Note Christ’s words concerning John the Baptist: “But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto Him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of Him.” Mark 9:13

“And if you will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.” Matthew 11:14. Then note Luke 13:34 and 35: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate; and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see Me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord.”

In what sense was Israel’s house left desolate? On the day of Pentecost 3000 Israelites believed and were saved. Acts 2:41 to 43. Then note Acts 4:4—“Howbeit many of them which heard the Word believed; and the number of men was about five thousand.” These were all Israelites.

Then note Acts 5:14—“And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.” All Jews. “And the Word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.” Acts 6:7. All Jews.

Then note Acts 11:19—“Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the Word to none, but unto the Jews only.”

Many of Christ’s own did receive Him. What is meant then by the statement, “His own received Him not?”

HOW ABOUT GENTILES?

Now search the Scriptures diligently from Matthew 1:1 to Peter’s statement in Acts 10:28, about seven years after the death of Jesus Christ, and count the Gentiles to whom Christ or His twelve apostles preached.

When the Twelve met one Gentile what did they say? “And His disciples came and besought Him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.” Matthew 15:23. Why did they do this? “These Twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 10:5 and 6.

Why did one Gentile man receive a blessing from Jesus Christ on earth? “For he loveth our nation, and he hath built us a synagogue.” Luke 7:5. “And when he heard of Jesus, he sent unto Him the elders of the Jews, beseeching Him that He would come and heal his servant.” Luke 7:3

AS MANY AS RECEIVED CHRIST

“As many as received Christ.” Think of this in the light of Acts 10:28 and Romans 10:14

“Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”

“How then shall they call on Him in Whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in Him of Whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?”

If it was not lawful for the Jewish disciples of Christ to go to the Gentiles, how could they hear and receive Christ? If the Gentiles did not hear the gospel they could not believe and receive Christ.

How do we reconcile Matthew 15:24 with John 3:16. “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

In the light of Matthew 15:24 and Acts 10:28 and Acts 11:19, we must conclude that there was no “whosoever” message for the Gentiles until the words of Peter, in Acts 10:34 and 43. “Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respector of persons.” “To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins.”

The proselytes, of Acts 2:10, were Gentiles by nature, but Jews by religion. The Grecians, of Acts 6 and 11, were Greek-speaking Jews. Philip did not preach to Gentiles, in the city of Samaria. Acts 11:19.
In the light of Acts 10:28 and 11:19 we may be sure that the Ethiopian was a proselyte. Acts 8:27.

Several years after Philip preached to the Ethiopian, the other apostles condemned Peter for preaching to the household of Cornelius. Acts 11:1 to 5.

Note what happened after Peter told them of Christ’s instructions to preach to Cornelius. “When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.” Acts 11:18.

Now compare

1—Go not into the way of the Gentiles. Matthew 10:5.

2—It is an unlawful thing for a Jew to go to a Gentile. Acts 10:28.

3—”And when James, Peter, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.” Galatians 2:9.

Here we learn concerning the twelve apostles; from first to last their ministry was to and for Israel.

DOGS AND NO DIFFERENCE

WHILE JESUS CHRIST WAS ON EARTH

Now let us compare Matthew 15:24—26—27 with Romans 10:12 and 13.

“I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

“It is not meet to take the children’s bread, and cast it to dogs.”

“And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master’s table.”

ABOUT 25 YEARS LATER

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek; for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

There is a very great difference between a sheep and a dog. This was the difference between the Jews and the Gentiles, while Christ was on earth.

But twenty-five years later there was no difference. Something had happened.

ISRAEL REJECTED

Now let us compare the statement of Christ to the Jews, “your house is left unto you desolate”, with Paul’s statement to the Jews, in Acts 13:46: “Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the Word of God should first have been spoken to you but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.”

Why was it necessary that the Word of Christ should be preached to Israel first, some years after Christ had said “your house is left unto you desolate”?

The answer is, Luke 23:34—Acts 3:1718 and 3:26,

“Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”

“And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled.”

“Unto you first God, having raised up His Son Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”

Christ on the cross prayed for Israel. God gave Israel another chance. And for several years after the prayer of Christ, God’s order was “to the Jew but not to the Gentile.” And then for some years, God’s order was “to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.” Romans 1:16—Acts 13:46—Acts 18:6 and Acts 28:28.

Then what happened? Study, “as many as received Christ” and John 3:16, in the light of Romans 11:30 and Ephesians 3:1 and 2 and 3:6.


As many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name. “

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

“For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief.”

This was written years after Christ died.

“For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward.”

“That the Gentiles should be jointheirs, and of the JOINT-BODY, and jointsharers of His promise in Christ by the gospel. “

Israel’s blindness, unbelief, and rejection brought mercy and salvation and reconciliation for and to the Gentiles. Romans 11:11 and 11:15.

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That is all.....

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WildB
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"the proselytes were Gentiles....correct and they were saved on Pentecost ...."

That is not what the word says.

The Biblical term "Proselyte", derives from the Koine Greek προσήλυτος/proselytos, as used in the Septuagint for "stranger", i.e. a "newcomer to Israel"; a "sojourner in the land", and in the New Testament for a convert to Judaism from Paganism.

Where the heck you get your theory is beyond me and the Tec. Manual of Life.

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becauseHElives
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the proselytes were Gentiles....correct and they were saved on Pentecost ....

this topic is The Practical Beginning of the Body of Christ .....

Peter's Trumpets Message—on Pentecost

Joel begins his second chapter by speaking of the Day of the Lord, and he ends it by speaking of the Millennium. God's people look forward to both occasions through the Day of Trumpets and the Feast of Tabernacles, respectively.

Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in My holy mountain! Let all the inhabitants of the land tremble; for the day of the Lord is coming, for it is at hand: A day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, like the morning clouds spread over the mountains. . . .

And it shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions; and also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My spirit in those days. And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. And it shall come to pass that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Joel 2:1-2, 28-32)

Joel is certainly speaking of the events immediately before the Millennium, the "blood and fire" of the day of God's wrath, followed by the widespread availability of His Holy Spirit as the Millennium starts. Why, then, does Peter relate Joel's words to Pentecost? As he says, "But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel" (Acts 2:16). Inebriation had nothing to do with it, the apostle asserts, as he begins his extended quotation of Joel 2:28-32, cited above.

Peter's comments are a "first" in several respects. They appear near the start of his very first sermon, of which there would be many more. They come in the very first sermon in the newly founded church of God, and there would be many, many more of these as well. In fact, they represent the very first time Old Testament scripture is quoted in a sermon by any apostle—ever.

For all that, however, this "first" is puzzling! What did Peter see in Joel's apocalyptic prophecy that made him think of Pentecost? Admittedly, Pentecost's "divided tongues, as of fire" (Acts 2:3) may have brought Joel's description of fire and smoke to his mind. And, yes, about fifty days earlier the sun had darkened, on the Passover afternoon of Christ's death. However, had the moon turned into blood then or on the day Peter preached? Where was the "blood and fire and pillars of smoke" of which Joel speaks? Perhaps most importantly, did God pour His Spirit "on all flesh" on Pentecost, AD 31? Why did God inspire Peter to quote Joel in this context?

The Pentecost Miracle

To understand why Peter connected the events on that Pentecost with Joel's prophecy, we will need to notice two things about the miracle of Pentecost: its nature and its participants.

The Miracle's Nature: The miracle temporally "healed" the ailment God imposed at Babel. There, God divided the languages of mankind, inflicting on it an impediment to communication (see Genesis 11:1-9). Suddenly, relationships became much more difficult to establish and maintain. Mankind scattered.

Communication is a two-way street, involving a source and a receiver. These are what we call the speaker and the hearer, respectively. By changing speaker and hearer, the miracle brought source and receiver together, where normally they would remain distant. The disciples spoke languages in which they were untutored. Members of their audience heard the disciples "speak in his own language" (Acts 2:6). Communication took place.

As miracles go, this is a "strange" one. It did not involve healing the blind, deaf, or lame en masse; it did not involve the wholesale casting out of demons. Compared to the plagues God sent on Egypt or to Jesus' raising of Lazarus from the dead, the Pentecost miracle was not dramatic. Nevertheless, we will see that it was significant.

The Miracle's Participants: The miracle involved Jewish speakers of a substandard dialect and Gentile hearers from around the world. The disciples were Galileans. By virtue of the distance separating them from Jerusalem, Galileans spoke a different dialect of Aramaic than that spoken in Jerusalem. Like many dialects, theirs was what linguists call a "shibboleth," a term they get from Judges 12:6. A shibboleth is a speech pattern that identifies the speaker's background. In the disciples' case, it marked them to be what the Jerusalem leadership considered uneducated and low class. As an analogy, one could compare the Galilean dialect to "cockney" English—also a shibboleth. The dons of Oxbridge look down on those who are "unfortunate" enough to speak cockney. That is how the effete Jewish elite in Jerusalem reacted to the Galilean dialect. Everyone who heard the disciples knew they were from Galilee. Their audience was dumbfounded that these untutored fellows could fluently speak other languages:

Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God. (Acts 2:7-11)

Notice that they mention "Jews and proselytes." The cosmopolitan audience was not composed merely of Jews who had traveled from abroad for the holy day, but also of Gentiles converted to Judaism—that is, proselytes. Unlike typical Jews today, pre-Diaspora Jews (before AD 70) were dedicated missionaries. Christ Himself refers to their evangelistic zeal: "You travel land and sea to win one proselyte" (Matthew 23:15). Over the years, the Jews—like evangelicals today—had carried their religion everywhere. Paul preached the gospel in synagogue after synagogue throughout the Roman Empire. There were synagogues in the Parthian Empire as well; Peter, when he served God in Babylon, certainly frequented them. Judaism had reached the Far East by Christ's time and perhaps the distant West as well.

Pentecost's was a miracle of language. It showed Peter what Pentecost was all about: God had enabled communication between Himself and mankind. He had made it possible to build a relationship between God and man and between man and man. Even if human civilization had reached the end of its rope—suffering the judgment of God, as Joel apocalyptically describes it—"whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21).

Most importantly, Peter understood that this new level of communication included the Gentiles. This is why Joel's words struck home to him on the Day of Pentecost. He knew that the word "whoever" included the Gentiles scattered about in the audience. He preached good news to them: They now had access to God's salvation.

Notice Peter's concluding comments to his sermon that day. In answer to the peoples' query, "What are we to do?" the apostle replies:

Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call. (Acts 2:38-39)

Gentiles, those "who are afar off," could be "among the remnant whom the Lord calls" (Joel 2:32).

Servants to the Gentiles

Joel 2:28-31 offers hope to the Gentiles. Joel was not alone in writing of that hope. The prophet Isaiah speaks of the coming of a "Servant" who will raise up the remnant of Israel and serve "as a light to the Gentiles . . . to the ends of the earth."

And now the Lord says, who formed Me from the womb to be His Servant, to bring Jacob back to Him, so that Israel is gathered to Him (for I shall be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and My God shall be My strength), indeed He says, "It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth." (Isaiah 49:5-6)

The reference to Christ as God's Servant here is reminiscent of Acts 2:18 (and Joel 2:29), where God says He will pour out His Spirit "on My menservants and on My maidservants." Those in God's New Testament church act as God's servants, under Christ, the Head of the church, to preach the gospel "in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come" (Matthew 24:14). Only about thirty verses later, in Matthew 24:45-51, Jesus again makes use of the servant metaphor, this time in the Parable of the Faithful and Evil Servants. The working servant is rewarded at Christ's return, but the evil one, convinced that "My master is delaying His coming," finds himself "cut . . . in two."

Christ's Ministry of Light

Centuries after Isaiah wrote those words of hope, another of God's servants speaks of Christ as a light to the Gentiles. Simeon, recognizing the infant Jesus as God's Anointed, exclaims:

Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; for my eyes have seen Your salvation which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, a light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel. (Luke 2:29-32)

Christ would eventually serve as a light to the Gentiles. While Simeon does not quote Isaiah directly, he was certainly familiar with Isaiah 49 as well as Isaiah 8 and 9.

In these two early chapters of Isaiah, the prophet also shows Christ as a light to the Gentiles. Lurking in them is the rhetoric of Joel—the darkness, the shadow of death, yet afterward, just as in Joel, hope shines through.

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. . . . Then they will look to the earth, and see trouble and darkness, gloom and anguish; and they will be driven into darkness. Nevertheless the gloom will not be upon her who is distressed, as when at first He lightly esteemed the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward more heavily oppressed her, by the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, in Galilee of the Gentiles. The people who walked in darkness have seen a great light; those who dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them a light has shined. (Isaiah 8:20, 22; 9:1-2)

Isaiah wrote after the fall of Israel to Assyria. The Assyrians' attack on the land of Zebulun and Naphtali, in the northern part of Israel, came in two waves. The first "distress" resulted in the deportation of some Israelites. The second oppression was much heavier, resulting in the deportation of virtually everyone. Then, the Assyrians imported Gentile peoples to the area of Zebulon and Naphtali, the area of Galilee. Their descendants—the Samaritans—heavily populated Galilee in Christ's day.

Christ was reared in Galilee, where small enclaves of Jews lived among many Gentiles. Matthew, writing of the start of Christ's ministry, writes:

Now when Jesus heard that John [the Baptist] had been put in prison, He departed to Galilee. And leaving Nazareth, He came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is by the sea, in the regions of Zebulun and Naphtali, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Isaiah the prophet, saying: "The land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, the way of the sea, beyond the Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; the people who sat in darkness saw a great light, and upon those who sat in the region and shadow of death light has dawned." From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:12-17)

It was in the Gentile area of Galilee—not in Jewish Jerusalem to the south—where Christ began His ministry of light. In Romans 11:11, Paul asserts that "salvation has come to the Gentiles." Peter, in citing Joel in his first sermon, understands the Gentiles to be spiritually "in the region and shadow of death," in deep darkness, with clouds obscuring their vision of God's salvation. He relates Joel to Pentecost because, on that day, God spread apart those clouds to allow the light of His salvation to reach the Gentiles, dispelling their gloom. What happened in Acts 2 gave the Gentiles the hope that they could build a relationship with the God of salvation. The hope of the Gentiles becomes the theme of the book of Acts, as seen, for example,

» in the preaching by Philip to the Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8);

» in the work by Peter with Cornelius and his family (Acts 10); and

» in Paul's ministry to the Gentiles in every city he visited. God called Paul "to bear My name before Gentiles" (Acts 9:15). Chapters 11 through 28 of Acts relates how Paul did that.

Christ: the Hope of the Gentiles

As the passages in Isaiah (and elsewhere) indicate, God did not "remember" the Gentiles by way of afterthought. He planned to offer them salvation early on. How early? Genesis 12 records the call of Abraham (then Abram), and the first of God's many promises to him. God tells the patriarch,

Get out of your country, from your kindred and from your father's house, to a land that I will show you. I will make you a great nation; I will bless you and make your name great; and you shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. (Genesis 12:1-3)

God remembers the Gentiles when He calls Abraham, promising that every nation, "all the families of the earth," will be blessed in the blessings of Abraham. Paul, "the apostle to the Gentiles" (Romans 11:13), carries the thought to its conclusion when he asserts that the line demarcating Jew and Gentile disappears in Christ: "[T]here is neither Jew nor Greek; . . . for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:28-29).

It is no accident that the events of Pentecost, AD 31, introduce the book of Acts. God uses the linguistic miracle to indicate the broad-based hope the Gentiles now have in Christ. God had enabled a hitherto closed communication channel between God and man—as well as between man and man. The gulfs separating God and mankind—and man and man—were now bridgeable. "On earth peace, good will toward men" (Luke 2:14), of which the heavenly host had sung, was now attainable. God displayed His ability to reverse the effects of Babel.

Communication between God and mankind. Paul, writing to the Ephesian church, makes it clear that the hope promised in the Old Testament to the Gentiles came with Christ. The result is that they can become members of God's household—His Family.

Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands—that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been made near by the blood of Christ. . . . Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God. . . . (Ephesians 2:11-13, 19)

Communication between man and man. Pentecost also teaches us about the power God gives us to bridge the gap between human beings. Individuals led by God's Spirit become related to each other by the fact that they "are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God." Paul summarizes the relationship near the end of Romans. Notice, incidentally, that Paul refers here to Christ as a servant:

Therefore receive one another, just as Christ also received us, to the glory of God. Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, and that the Gentiles might glorify God for His mercy, as it is written: "For this reason I will confess to You among the Gentiles, and sing to Your name." And again he says: "Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people!" And again: "Praise the Lord, all you Gentiles! Laud Him, all you peoples!" And again, Isaiah says: "There shall be a root of Jesse; and He shall rise to reign over the Gentiles, in Him the Gentiles shall hope." (Romans 15:7-12)

Christ will eventually "reign over the Gentiles." At that time, He will finish the work He started at Pentecost, complete the work that Pentecost merely presages. The prophet Zephaniah prophesies that God will eventually reverse the linguistically divisive effect of Babel: "I will restore to the peoples a pure language, that they may call on the name of the Lord, to serve Him with one accord" (Zephaniah 3:9).

Note the plural: peoples. To "all the families of the earth," God will open the channel of communication by which they, as Joel and Peter agree, may "call on the name of the Lord." Then, they will be, as at that time of Pentecost, AD 31, "with one accord" (see Acts 1:14; 2:46; 4:24; 5:12).

Paul concludes in Romans 15:13: "Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." The miracle of that Pentecost day gives "whoever calls on the name of the Lord"—Gentile and Israelite alike—"joy and peace" because of the hope all share through God's Spirit.

http://www.cgg.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Library.sr/CT/PW/k/812/Peters-Trumpets-Message-on-Pentecost.htm

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB were any Gentiles saved on the day of Pentecost?

this ? pertains to this thread....please answer...

quote:
In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

In all seriousness, i don't tempt Yahweh but if the occasion arises...Yahweh is sufficient.
"but if"

Hum so you have not, yet you would led others to death by your shallow understanding of Pauls commission and your following of another!

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Carol Swenson
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Acts 2:5 - 11 (NASB) 5Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8“And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9“Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11Cretans and Arabs—we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.”

Unless you count the proselytes, I don't see Gentiles mentioned, but Jews from every nation.

Did I miss something?

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becauseHElives
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Carol so you say no Gentiles were saved on Pentecost?

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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becauseHElives

quote:
Look,Carol the Kingdom is here now, it is in the heart of every believer....

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Yes, the Kingdom is here now within us, but the Millennial Kingdom that was prophesized to Israel has not yet come. That was the Kingdom the Jews longed for. The Jewish leaders wanted a political leader who would deliver them from Rome. That was the Kingdom His apostles asked about in Acts 1.

Acts 1:6 (NASB)
6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"

They asked this AFTER Jesus had said

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

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becauseHElives
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WildB were any Gentiles saved on the day of Pentecost?

this ? pertains to this thread....please answer...

quote:
In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

In all seriousness, i don't tempt Yahweh but if the occasion arises...Yahweh is sufficient.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
WildB you say.... Dale what you teach is worse than what you accuse these people of.

In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

You claim it as your mail then do all of it.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

do you realize you sound like Satan when he tempted Yahshua in the wilderness....

all I can answer is get the behind me Satan,

i am not calling you Satan , no more Yahshua was calling Peter Satan when he had to rebuke him....

you need no more Grace than i do....anyone that does not recognize the on going war between the Spirit and the flesh ....

our differences are because of the false teachings of the Bearen Bible Society....much of their teaching is good but there position on Paul's writings make them an offense to the True Gospel.

the Bearen Bible Society may be sincere but the are sincerely wrong...may Yahweh forgive them.

WildBwere any Gentiles saved on the day of Pentecost

Just answer the Question and this time pretend that you are not Christ and I not the devil.

In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

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That is all.....

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
Carol said.... Look, becauseHElives, this is all they're saying. Jesus taught about His kingdom, and He taught only Israel (Matthew 15:24), but we know we have to wait for Him to return before His kingdom begins.
Look,Carol the Kingdom is here now, it is in the heart of every believer....

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Oh Dale Dale Dale.

How long must I suffer your sillyness.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Carol said.... Look, becauseHElives, this is all they're saying. Jesus taught about His kingdom, and He taught only Israel (Matthew 15:24), but we know we have to wait for Him to return before His kingdom begins.
Look,Carol the Kingdom is here now, it is in the heart of every believer....

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.


--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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becauseHElives
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quote:
WildB you say.... Dale what you teach is worse than what you accuse these people of.

In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

You claim it as your mail then do all of it.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

do you realize you sound like Satan when he tempted Yahshua in the wilderness....

all I can answer is get the behind me Satan,

i am not calling you Satan , no more Yahshua was calling Peter Satan when he had to rebuke him....

you need no more Grace than i do....anyone that does not recognize the on going war between the Spirit and the flesh ....

our differences are because of the false teachings of the Bearen Bible Society....much of their teaching is good but there position on Paul's writings make them an offense to the True Gospel.

the Bearen Bible Society may be sincere but the are sincerely wrong...may Yahweh forgive them.

WildBwere any Gentiles saved on the day of Pentecost

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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BigC just give it up It is clear 2 all that Dale never needed Grace.

And really hates people like me who needs a lot of it of every second of every day.

Dale give the Devil a little do.

Here I stand kneeling always in my heart.

1 Peter 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

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That is all.....

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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Thanks, Wild One, I think. What is wraft?

Dam righteous anger
Must be a close cousin to wrath. But actually I'm not angry. Maybe angry at myself for being unable to explain this in a way that is understandable.
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becauseHElives

quote:
Yahshua's teaching as pertaining to salvation!


Does our Lord teach a different salvation than Paul teaches?

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.

Look, becauseHElives, this is all they're saying. Jesus taught about His spiritual kingdom, and He taught only Israel (Matthew 15:24). We know we have to wait for Him to return before His earthly kingdom begins. Paul teaches us how to live while we wait for the Lord to return. That doesn't mean that the Sermon on the Mount and the other moral teachings of our Lord are not for us today. They are! We WANT to live in ways that please our Lord! We also must realize that until He returns we are living in a fallen, wicked world with a sin nature; we are NOT living in His Messianic Kingdom now. We need to do what Paul tells us, and what the other New Testament writers tell us. That is, walk in the Spirit and don't fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

Let's say your wife went grocery shopping. You planned together on what to have for supper. What do you do while she's gone? Do you eat supper? No, of course not, it isn't even cooked yet, (just as the kingdom hasn't come yet). So what do you do? You probably have chores and errands of your own to do, things that will please her and be good for your home.

That's what Paul is teaching us, what to do until Christ returns. The BB Society simply recognizes the fact that we are living in the Age of Grace while we wait for the Kingdom Age to begin at our Lord's return.

Finally, I know you think that the Church is Israel, but all Dispensationalists, including the BB Society, see The Bride and Israel as different things. We see Jews, Gentiles, and the Church. The Church was the great mystery because before there were only Jews and Gentiles. Now there is something new, a new creation, the Church, the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, where Jews and Gentiles are regenerated into a unity in Christ.

What's so terrible about that?

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Carol what is so terrible is that the Bearen Bible Society reject Yahshua's teaching as pertaining to salvation!

not to mention the other New Testament writers all under the direction of the Holy Spirit...

yes the B B Society have some good teaching but that which is wrong teaching makes them very, very dangerous!

Dale what you teach is worse than what you accuse these people of.

In all seriousness. When was the last time u drank poison and lived or picked up some deadly snakes and not gotten bitten?

You claim it as your mail then do all of it.

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

--------------------
That is all.....

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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Thanks, Wild One, I think. What is wraft?

Dam righteous anger

--------------------
That is all.....

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Thanks, Wild One, I think. What is wraft?
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becauseHElives
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Carol what is so terrible is that the Bearen Bible Society reject Yahshua's teaching as pertaining to salvation!

not to mention the other New Testament writers all under the direction of the Holy Spirit...

yes the B B Society have some good teaching but that which is wrong teaching makes them very, very dangerous!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
When Paul used the expression "another gospel" in Galatians, he was talking about legalists.

becauseHElives, if you're going to make statements like that about the Berean Bible Society, or anyone else, you need to prove your point or you won't be believed.

This is what they say

quote:
We are not the wild-eyed radicals that the theological media tries to portray us as. We are in agreement with the overwhelming majority of traditional dispensationalism. Our two primary points of disagreement are that we see the Body of Christ starting with the conversion and call of the Apostle Paul and that water baptism is not a requirement for this dispensation.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1011392439.html


Okay, there are many, many different beliefs about baptism. That doesn't make them another gospel unless they say it's required for salvation.

Secondly, I believe the Church started at Pentecost and the Gentiles were added later.

They believe it was not really the Body of Christ UNTIL the Gentiles were added because Paul's special revelation, his mystery, is that Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ with no difference.

Why is that so terrible?

Dam BigC you are one wild woman when rightous wraft gets in your kitchen.lol

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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When Paul used the expression "another gospel" in Galatians, he was talking about legalists.

becauseHElives, the BB Society teaches some things I don't agree with, and most other denominations also teach things I don't agree with. But if you're going to make statements like that about the Berean Bible Society, or anyone else, you need to prove your point or you won't be believed.

This is what they say

quote:
We are not the wild-eyed radicals that the theological media tries to portray us as. We are in agreement with the overwhelming majority of traditional dispensationalism. Our two primary points of disagreement are that we see the Body of Christ starting with the conversion and call of the Apostle Paul and that water baptism is not a requirement for this dispensation.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1011392439.html


Okay, there are different beliefs about baptism. That doesn't make them another gospel unless they say it's required for salvation.

Secondly, I believe the Church started at Pentecost and the Gentiles were added later.

They believe it was not really the Body of Christ UNTIL the Gentiles were added because Paul's special revelation, his mystery, is that Jews and Gentiles are one in Christ with no difference. Until Paul, even after Peter's experiences, the Jews and the Gentiles were separated, like two different bodies.

Why is that so terrible?

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Carol, you misunderstood the direction of my question!

was not disagreeing with you ....I was talking about the Bearen theology.....I can not believe you do not see that though very subtle, the Bearen Bible Society /WildB are teaching Another Gospel...

sorry you misunderstood...

Repent While the day is yet called day.

IT IS CLEAR 2 ALL YOUR SILLYNESS!

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That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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Carol, you misunderstood the direction of my question!

was not disagreeing with you ....I was talking about the Bearen theology.....I can not believe you do not see that though very subtle, the Bearen Bible Society /WildB are teaching Another Gospel...

sorry you misunderstood...

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Carol , that is completely another Gospel....you don't see that!

If you think that then why did you post exactly the same article that I posted?
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When Did The Church Begin ( the Body of Christ)?

Introduction

Reformed/Covenant Theology teaches (with some variation in details) that the Church is made up of the elect of all ages, and therefore the Church must have begun with the first person who was saved. This is the common view, although some begin the church with the nation Israel. In either case, Reformed men are unanimous in teaching that the Church was present in the Old Testament period. This is illustrated by the headings found at the top of The Thompson Chain Reference Bible in the book of Isaiah: "God's mercy to the Church" "God avengeth His church" "His great mercies to the Church" "The church comforted" "The restoration of the Church" "The church exhorted" "God will comfort His church" "The prophet's zeal for the church" "Confession and complaint of the church" etc.

Reformed/Covenant men stress that throughout all history there is but one people of God, and that these saved people comprise the Church.

Dispensationalists teach that the Church is a unique body of believers that began on the day of Pentecost and will be removed from earth on the day that Christ comes for His own (the rapture). It is made up of both Jews and Gentiles united together into one body and enjoying equal status in the body of Christ (Eph. 3:5-6). This is the “one new man” of Ephesians 2:15 and the “one fold” of John 10:16.

Others hold to differing positions as to when the Church began. Some Baptist groups believe that the Church began with John the Baptist or at some time during the Lord’s earthly ministry. Others whom we consider ultradispensational, begin the Church years after Pentecost (some in Acts 13 and others in Acts 28).

The answer to the question of when the Church began is important and has many theological ramifications. It is not a difficult question to answer. The Scriptures pinpoint the beginning of the Church in a very simple and clear way, as we shall now seek to demonstrate.

The Key Argument from Scripture
Spirit Baptism

The key passage on Spirit baptism is found in 1 Corinthians 12:13—“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” The “one body” spoken of in this verse refers to the Church (see 1 Cor. 12:27-28; Eph. 1:22-23; 5:30-32; Col. 1:18), and Christ is the Head of this body. Spirit baptism is defined in 1 Corinthians 12:13 as that work of God whereby believers are baptized (immersed, placed) into Christ’s body, the Church. How then does a believer become a member of the body of Christ? It is by Spirit baptism.

The key to when the Church began is this: If we can determine when Spirit baptism first began, then we will know when the church began. When did God first baptize believers into His body? When were believers first placed into the body of Christ? To answer this is to determine the day on which the church began.

Spirit baptism was first predicted by John the Baptist in Matthew 3:11 (and in the parallel passages: Mark 1:8; Luke 3:16; John 1:33):

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost (Spirit), and with fire” (Matt. 3:11).

John’s baptism was a water baptism (“I baptize you with water”); Christ’s baptism would be a spiritual baptism (“He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit”). The “fire baptism” is for the unsaved and this is yet future (see Matthew 3:12). Notice the phrase, “He shall baptize you with (Greek-en) the Holy Spirit.” The verb “shall baptize” is in the future tense, indicating that Spirit baptism had not yet taken place when John the Baptist spoke these words. John was predicting that it would happen in the future, but he did not predict exactly when it would happen. Notice also that Christ is the Baptizer. He is the One who would place believers into the body of Christ. He is the One who would build His church. Christ is also the Baptizer in 1 Corinthians 12:13, as will be shown later.

In Matthew 16:18 the Lord Jesus said, “I will build My Church.” The future tense of the verb indicates that the building of the Church had not yet begun when Jesus said these words. He did not say, “I have built My Church.” He did not say, “I am building My Church.” No, the building project had not yet begun and thus the Church was yet future. At the time Jesus spoke the words of Matthew 16:18 the Church had not yet begun.

Today Christ is building His church. He is adding to the church daily such as should be saved (Acts 2:47). But the question is, when did this building program first begin?

In Acts 1:5 the Lord Jesus predicted that Spirit baptism was still future:

“For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence” (Acts 1:5).

According to our Lord’s prediction, Spirit baptism had not yet taken place yet, though it would soon take place. No one had yet been immersed into the body of Christ. Thus, the Church could not have begun prior to Acts 1:5. When Jesus spoke the words of Acts 1:5 His death and His resurrection had already taken place, and yet Spirit baptism had not yet taken place and the church had not yet been formed. But the announcement of Acts 1:5 was very significant because Jesus said that Spirit baptism would take place “not many days hence” (not many days from now). This means that it would happen soon, in a matter of days. Indeed, as we shall learn, it happened just ten days later on the day of Pentecost.

The Day of Pentecost and the unique events that took place on that day are described in Acts chapter 2. In this chapter Spirit baptism is not specifically mentioned. It is not until Acts chapter 11 that we are specifically told that Spirit baptism took place on the day of Pentecost: “And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning [on the Day of Pentecost]. Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that He said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost” (Acts 11:15-16). Based on the clear statement of this passage we know that Spirit baptism first took place on the Day of Pentecost. It was then that believers were first placed into the body of Christ. It was then that the Church began.

But someone might raise an objection and say, “The Spirit baptism mentioned in Matthew 3:11 and Acts 1:5 is different from the Spirit baptism mentioned in 1 Corinthians 12:13. In Matthew 3:11 and Acts 1:5 Christ is the Baptizer, but in 1 Corinthians 12:13 the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer. As we read the English Bible this seems to be the case, but the Greek construction of Matthew 3:11 and Acts 1:5 is practically identical to that of 1 Corinthians 12:13, as the following chart illustrates.

All four of these passages are talking about the same baptism, and the Greek construction in all four passages is closely equivalent, as the following literal rendering reveals:


Passage
Greek Construction
Matthew. 3:11 He (Christ) shall baptize you with (in) Holy Spirit
Acts 1:5 You shall be baptized (by Christ-Matt. 3:11) with (in) Holy Spirit
Acts 11:16 You shall be baptized (by Christ-Matt. 3:11) with (in) Holy Spirit
1 Cor. 12:13 We all were be baptized (by Christ-Matt. 3:11) with (in) one Spirit into one body



The order of the words in 1 Corinthians 12:13 has been altered in order to show that the same Greek construction is used. In the King James Version the Greek preposition en is translated “By one Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:13) which has led some to wrongly conclude that the Spirit is the Baptizer. But the passage should be understood in this way: “With (en) one Spirit were we all baptized [by Christ] into one body [the body of Christ, His Church].”

For a detailed discussion of the grammar involved in 1 Corinthians 12:13 see Spirit Baptism and 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Not only did Christ place us into His body, but He also immersed us in the Holy Spirit. John the Baptist made this prediction: “I indeed baptize you with water . . . He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost” (Matt. 3:11). What does it mean to be baptized or immersed with (in) the Holy Spirit? The following Scriptures help to shed light:

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:13).

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which [the word ‘which’ refers to the Holy Spirit] He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour” (Titus 3:5-6).

“. . . having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:33).

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly [innermost being] shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” (John 7:38-39)

Praise God, the Comforter has come! The promise of the Father has been given! Spirit baptism began at Pentecost and continues throughout this present age whenever a person believes on Christ.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Good morning WildB,
Would you please answer these questions of mine so I can get a fuller understanding of what this "new dispensation of grace" is all about.


How is it different than the "old/former?" And how does it apply to us?

Just citing one passage in Hebrews and making a short statement about "authority and power to move the throne" does not help me to understand this "new dispensation of grace". Please answer more plainly being specific to the 2 questions above.


With love in Christ, Daniel

Morning my friend.

The Dispensation of Grace
Mystery or Prophecy?

By Cornelius R. Stam

We have often insisted that while the prophets "testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glory that should follow," they knew nothing of the present period of grace which lies between our Lord's suffering and His kingdom glory.

"The dispensation of the grace of God," we read in Ephesians 3, was "a mystery" only made known "by revelation" to Paul, some years after the rejected Christ had returned to heaven. In verse 5 he says that "in other ages" it was "not made known." In verse 8 he calls it "the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God." In Romans 16:25 he says it was "kept secret since the world began." In Colossians 1:26 he insists again that it was "hid from ages and from generations."

But there are still thousands of sincere believers who do not see this. They think that the prophets predicted the reign of grace as well as the reign of Christ. Thus they lose some of the joy of that great surprise of grace which God planned for sinners "before the world began" (II Tim. 1:9), but "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25).

One of the Scriptures which troubles them most is I Peter 1:10: "Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you." They say that this proves conclusively that the dispensation of Grace was prophesied beforehand and was no mystery at all.

But here again we must distinguish between grace in a dispensation and the dispensation of Grace. Peter is not speaking of the reign of grace here, but of the grace that will prevail during the reign of Christ. This is clear from the 13th verse, where he exhorts his Jewish Christian brethren, "Hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ."

Remember that like Christ on earth, Peter was a minister of "the Circumcision" (Rom. 15:18; Gal. 2:7). His message to the believing Jews had the kingdom reign of Christ in view.

The prophets had clearly predicted that God would judge the world for rejecting His Son and would enthrone Christ in spite of them. He did not do this immediately, however. In matchless mercy, He deferred the judgment and offered salvation to all who would receive it as a free gift through the merits of Christ. And so, while Christ is not yet reigning, grace reigns. "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign" (Rom. 5:21).

An over-abounding grace is the outstanding characteristic of God's dealings with man in "this present evil age."

When Saul of Tarsus became the leader of an organized rebellion against Christ, God in love reached down to save him, choosing him as the very agent through whom He would proclaim grace to a lost world.

Listen to his testimony and his message:

"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious, but...the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant" (I Tim. 1:13,14).

"Not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many" (Rom. 5:15).

"But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Rom. 5:20).

"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace; wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence" (Eph. 1:7,8).

"Being justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).

"And God is able to make all grace abound unto you, that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work" (II Cor. 9:8).

"For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God" (II Cor. 4:15).

Do you wonder why we say that an over-abounding grace is the outstanding characteristic of God's dealings with man in "this present evil age"? Surely grace is reigning. Otherwise the thunders of God's judgment would roll and He would bring in the reign of Christ.

Though, in his first epistle, Peter told the believing Jews to "hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ," he later learned something of that greater grace which God was to manifest in deferring the judgment of the nations and the reign of Christ, and, as we shall see, he learned it from Paul.

As Israel refused to repent and Christ did not return, some began to cry "Where is the promise of His coming?" (II Pet. 3:4).

Peter now answers this beautifully. He says "Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." And note, this is not a lame explanation offered today at the close of the age of Grace. This statement was made at the dawn of the age.

Peter goes on, "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count [it], slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance" (II Pet. 3:8,9 cf. I Tim. 1:16 "all longsuffering"). So the delay must not be counted slackness on God's part, but longsuffering, and since "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day," this delay might continue for any amount of time, even though the signs of the last days had already begun to appear (Acts 2:16,17).

How did Peter know this? He certainly didn't find it in prophecy.

Before we quote the significant closing words of his epistle let us remember Paul's word in Ephesians 3:1-3. "For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: how that by revelation He made known unto me the Mystery...."

How beautifully this harmonizes with the closing words of Peter's second epistle! He tells them not to count the delay slackness, but says "...account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you" (II Pet. 3:15). No wonder he says in the closing verse "But grow in grace!"

Peter has learned why "the revelation of Jesus Christ" is being delayed. May we learn it too. God is waiting because of "His great love," because He is loathe to judge.

How long He will continue to wait we cannot tell. We can only say to the unsaved, "We then, as workers together with Him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain....Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation" (II Cor. 6:1,2). And to the saved, "See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil" (Eph. 5:15,16).

THE MEANING OF GRACE AND HOW THIS AFFECTS US

Ask the average believer what the Bible word "grace" means, and he will doubtless reply "unmerited favor."

Actually, however, grace is much more than this.

Subjectively, it is that loving attitude, or disposition, on God's part, from which all His kindness toward us flows.

Objectively, it is all the kindness that flows from His love toward us.

Thus we read in Ephesians 2:2-6 that we were "the children of disobedience" and therefore "by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

"But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,

"Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

"And hath raised us up together and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."

Note: This passage begins with those who were "children of disobedience" and "children of wrath" and, saving them "by grace," gives them a position in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus!

God's grace to us as sinners was great indeed, for:

"In [Christ] we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His [God's] grace" (Eph. 1:7).

But now, having given us a position in His beloved Son, God's grace goes out to us in still greater measure.

Ephesians 1:6 declares that God has "made us accepted [Lit., "engraced us"] in the Beloved." "The Beloved"! What a name for the Son of God's love!

Beholding us in Christ, God loves us and delights in us more than any father ever delighted in his son, or any grandfather in that precious grandchild.

Thus, while in Ephesians 1:7 we read that we have "redemption...the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace," in Ephesians 2:7 we see these riches of grace increased to us "exceedingly," now that we occupy a position "in the Beloved":

"That in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace...."

How?

"...in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus"!

What a prospect! Through the ages of eternity God will lavish His loving kindness upon us to demonstrate to all the universe "the exceeding riches of His grace"!

THE NATURE OF GRACE

To a young Christian who kept bemoaning his failures and lack of spiritual growth, and wondering how God could love him, a more mature believer responded substantially as follows:

"When I leave here and return to my home I will pick up my little baby girl and put her on my knee. Tired as I am, I will dandle her on my knee and, somehow, looking into that darling face and those pretty blue eyes, I will soon feel rested and refreshed.

"This is strange, in a way, for she does not love me. She doesn't even know what love is.

"She doesn't appreciate my problems and has no sympathy for me. My heart can be burdened with grief or filled with anxiety, and my mind vexed with difficult problems, but she doesn't even know or care. She just keeps gurgling and giggling at the attention I lavish upon her.

"She doesn't contribute one cent toward the needs of our family; indeed, she costs me a great deal of money and will for years to come. Yet I love that child more than I can say. There is no sacrifice I would not make for her; no good thing I would not gladly give her."

Such is the grace of God towards us, His children. It does not depend upon our faithfulness to Him or our appreciation of His love to us. He loves us with an unspeakable love and keeps lavishing upon us "the riches of His grace" simply because we are His children in Christ, the Beloved.

And strangely, is it not precisely this fact that proves to be our greatest incentive to give ourselves to Him in loving service and sacrifice!

--------------------
That is all.....

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
WildB, you would do well in reading all the chapter to see what is being said....

you say I am dening the power of Yahweh....

I know that is not so because I understand what Grace is......

Grace is Yahweh power in any individual to overcome sin in the everyday temptations of life...

Grace is the power of Yahweh in the heart to live separated lives from the evil of this world....

Grace is not just unmerited favor...

Yet you post on any ways.

Riddle me this?

How does one judge another about instructing other's, with meeknees when grafted into the tree of opposition?

Definition of OPPOSE

1
: to place over against something so as to provide resistance, counterbalance, or contrast
2
: to place opposite or against something
3
: to offer resistance to
— op·pos·er noun
Examples of OPPOSE


The governor opposes the death penalty.
The change is opposed by many of the town's business leaders.
The group opposes the mayor and is trying to find a candidate to run against her.
You've opposed every suggestion I've made.
He met the man who will oppose him in the next election.
These two teams opposed each other in last year's playoffs.
We're hoping we can get more senators to oppose the legislation.

The Becausehelives oppose,s The Gospel of Grace because it takes the power away from the Curse of the LAW.

--------------------
That is all.....

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Acts 2

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


the first Pentecost was the Law written on tablets of stone (DEATH)...the fulfillment of Pentecost was the writing of the Law on the heart (life)...

The Church began on Pentecost

When this LAW was written on YOU/YOUR heart did your tongue clovenize as the mighty wind blew about and did you began to speak with other tongues all at once?

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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Acts 2

1And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

13Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


the first Pentecost was the Law written on tablets of stone (DEATH)...the fulfillment of Pentecost was the writing of the Law on the heart (life)...

The Church began on Pentecost

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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becauseHElives
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WildB, you would do well in reading all the chapter to see what is being said....

you say I am dening the power of Yahweh....

I know that is not so because I understand what Grace is......

Grace is Yahweh power in any individual to overcome sin in the everyday temptations of life...

Grace is the power of Yahweh in the heart to live separated lives from the evil of this world....

Grace is not just unmerited favor...

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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oneinchrist
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Good morning WildB,
Would you please answer these questions of mine so I can get a fuller understanding of what this "new dispensation of grace" is all about.


How is it different than the "old/former?" And how does it apply to us?

Just citing one passage in Hebrews and making a short statement about "authority and power to move the throne" does not help me to understand this "new dispensation of grace". Please answer more plainly being specific to the 2 questions above.


With love in Christ, Daniel

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The Practical Beginning of the Body of Christ....

when all those gathered together waiting on the promised were filled with the Holy Spirit the Body of Christ became a reality and the Church age of Grace began!

and your scripture for this teaching?

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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The Practical Beginning of the Body of Christ....

when all those gathered together waiting on the promised were filled with the Holy Spirit the Body of Christ became a reality and the Church age of Grace began!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
"Gives you authority and power to move the throne"

Seriously WildB.......do you expect me to understand what that means without some sort of explanation?

I think you really are tired.....all that fresh air......LOL

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

--------------------
That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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"Gives you authority and power to move the throne"

Seriously WildB.......do you expect me to understand what that means without some sort of explanation?

I think you really are tired.....all that fresh air......LOL

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
When you have more time, and you are not so tired........please explain to me about this "new dispensation of grace" that you keep speaking of.
How is it different than the "old/former?" And how does it apply to us?

With love in Christ, Daniel

Gives you authority and power to move the throne.

2 help baseball fans.

--------------------
That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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When you have more time, and you are not so tired........please explain to me about this "new dispensation of grace" that you keep speaking of.
How is it different than the "old/former?" And how does it apply to us?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hello WildB,
Your response to my post said:

"I think not. The Spirit visibly sealed Cornelious,
A UNCIRCUMCISED GENTILE as a SIGNAL/SIGN to Pete for the conformation of the NEW DISPENSATION OF GRACE, GOD was ushering in"

The spirit "visibly" sealed Corelius? What do you mean "visibly?"

Whenever the Holy Spirit falls on anyone.....Jew or Gentile.... it is God confirming His Word. It is the "spirit witness" that Jesus is indeed risen and exalted to the right hand of God.

When Peter witnessed the gentiles receive the Holy Ghost, he knew then(with certainty) that salvation was being offered to the gentiles as well as the Jews.
But what is this "new dispensation of grace that you speak of?" Does it mean something other than God granting salvation to gentiles?"

With love in Christ, Daniel

Pete did not know for certainty , he was being prepared for this dispensation of Grace, to be reveled by Paul. Later confirmed!

--------------------
That is all.....

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