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Author Topic: Eternal Security
becauseHElives
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quote:
I like Billy Joel's music. Listening to his music does not mean you support his morals or his political beliefs.

Ephesians 5

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Betty, you think it OK to partake of Billy Joel's life through his music... I never even heard of him till tonight and what little I know about him, I know I want nothing to do with him....

you think rock and roll music tends to promote or assist an atmosphere conducive to of the Holy Spirit?

my Bible tells me to have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Paul is talking to those who do not obey the Gospel!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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Wild guy and Betty, eklesia is not even a word - it has no meaning. But ekklesia means called out ones. It can be the church or any other assembly.

In barrykind and becauseHElives case, it apparently means legalists vs. rotten, no good, evil doing believers of Eternal Security.

becauseHElives, you emphasize the importance of forgiveness, then almost immediately demonstrate an unforgiving spirit toward a singer and those who like his music. barry refused to forgive a typing mistake. You're unforgiving of every church, preacher and teacher who interpret scripture differently than you do, or who don't live by your standards. If you're going to write about forgiveness, you need to be forgiving yourself.

Our Lord Jesus spent time with sinners, forgiving and teaching them.

quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi Carol,
You posted this answer in response to my post:

Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law

But we are still under law.......right?
The "law of Christ" (Galatians 6:2)

Forgiveness is part of the law of Christ. Wouldnt unforgiveness put into question where we place our faith?

Let me try to make an analogy here.
In the Old testament the law of ten Commandments was delivered to Gods people through His prophet Moses. The Israelites witnessed the lightnings and thunderings and the cloud of God cover Mt. Sinai. Moses came down with the Ten Commandments on stone tablets written by the hand of God.

Now the Israelites had a choice. They could choose to follow after and obey(of course not perfectly, but with a sincere diligent faith)the commands that came from the God who brought them out of bondage, or they could scoff at them and make up their own gods.
If they chose to embrace the commands(as from a loving and faithful God), then their obedience(of course not perfect, but sincere diligence) reflected their trust in God and His Word. If they chose not to cling to and obey Gods commands, it reflected a lack of trust in God and His Word.

Doesnt the same concept apply today?
If we embrace the doctrine that was brought to us by Jesus, it reflects our trust in Him. If we neglect, discard, scoff at, or consider insignificant the doctrine that was brought to us by Jesus, it reflects our lack of trust in Him.

We are warned that if we choose unforgiveness that we can put our own souls in jeopardy. It sounds to me like this warning comes from One who desires to keep us in fellowship with the Father. It sounds to me like this warning is a warning to protect us from the evil one.

Warnings are our friends......warnings are gifts from God........to keep us in the spirit......walking in the light.

My friends.....Dont convenant with the devil! flee unforgiveness, flee bitterness, flee from pride and the vanity of life, flee from the love of money, flee from idols(even people idols), flee from sexual immorality, flee from envy, and draw closer to God in Jesus.

We dont forgive to merit salvation. We forgive becaue we are taught(by Jesus) to forgive, and because we are taught the peril of unforgiveness. Yes, even I forgive because I fear falling into judgement, but my main motivation is Gods love and mercy towards me.

I do not believe that BecauseHElives is saying that we merit salvation by our forgiveness....... but I do believe that he is saying that we can fall from grace by unforgiveness. This seems like a paradox.......but.....possibly not, if one considers that faith and forgiveness have such a close and binding relationship with one another .......such as faith and love are never divorced from each other.

With love in Christ, Daniel

Galatians 5:18 (NASB)
But if you are led by the Spirit , you are not under the Law

We forgive because the Holy Spirit of Christ lives within us. We obey the law of Christ because His Spirit lives within us. We will never fall into judgment or fall from grace when we are led by the Spirit.

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becauseHElives
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quote:
We forgive because the Holy Spirit of Christ lives within us. We obey the law of Christ because His Spirit lives within us. We will never fall into judgment or fall from grace when we are led by the Spirit.
exactly the point Carol....no one falls from Grace when walking after the Spirit but there are no robots in Yahweh's Kingdom, the believer still has the chose to walk after the Spirit or not ...

the believer is free to walk away...

Yahweh will not force anyone too do anything!

abiding is a conscious decision on the believers part everyday.

Yahweh does not force anyone to pray....
Yahweh does not force anyone to read the scriptures...
Yahweh does not force anyone to meditate on His word....
Yahweh does not force anyone to think on things that are true, things are honest, things are just, things are pure, things are lovely, things are of good report; virtue, praise, ....
each individual believer must consciously every day make those choices!

other wise all the instruction of scripture is useless.

if you or I teaches something that offends one of these little ones that believe in Yahshua, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

that does not sound like loss of reward to me...that warning is serious!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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barrykind,

About Matthew 6:15

quote:
Yahushua made the statement, take it up with the Master Sister//
I did Mister. He said, "I love you."

We love, because He first loved us. (1 John 4:19)
We forgive, because He first forgave us. (Ephesians 1:7}

quote:
If one is "born again" and i harbor unforgiveness in my heart, the LORD HIMSELF said if i do not forgive men thier tresspasses, The Lord said he would not forgive me my tresspasses!
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:22-23)

quote:
Also Yahushua said if i deny Him [yahushua] before men then He [Yahushua] would deny me before the Father!

Thats just plain gospel fact..Sister

So is this:

For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. (Philippians 1:21)

quote:
I dont know why yall use "grace" of the Master Yahushua as a cloak for every evil work?

Why?

Why do you think that Grace overlooks all things, now im talking about after salvation..

Grace is no license for sin, grace does not stand up for sin, nor condone sin...

And some people even slander us by claiming that we say, “The more we sin, the better it is!” Those who say such things deserve to be condemned. (Romans 3:8 NLT)

quote:
Its the WHOLE Gospel my Dear Sister...Being saved does not allow us to walk in the flesh until we die, nor does it contradict YHWH when He said, that HE is not Mocked for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap!
Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. (Galatians 5:22-25)

quote:
BE NOT WEARY IN WELL doing for in due season you shall REAP...IF IF IF IF IF IF IF IF YOU faint NOT!!!

ENDURE TO THE END!...[emp. not shouting at you]

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; (Romans 3:21-24)

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
We forgive because the Holy Spirit of Christ lives within us. We obey the law of Christ because His Spirit lives within us. We will never fall into judgment or fall from grace when we are led by the Spirit.
exactly the point Carol....no one falls from Grace when walking after the Spirit but there are no robots in Yahweh's Kingdom, the believer still has the chose to walk after the Spirit or not ...

the believer is free to walk away...

Yahweh will not force anyone too do anything!

abiding is a conscious decision on the believers part everyday.

Yahweh does not force anyone to pray....
Yahweh does not force anyone to read the scriptures...
Yahweh does not force anyone to meditate on His word....
Yahweh does not force anyone to think on things that are true, things are honest, things are just, things are pure, things are lovely, things are of good report; virtue, praise, ....
each individual believer must consciously every day make those choices!

other wise all the instruction of scripture is useless.

if you or I teaches something that offends one of these little ones that believe in Yahshua, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

that does not sound like loss of reward to me...that warning is serious!

becauseHElives,

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit. God OWNS us; we are His slaves, and we are His children. The Holy Spirit is God’s seal on His people, His claim on us as His very own. No one can break the seal of God.

What about free will? We used our free will when we chose to put our faith in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. We were reborn into the family of God.

If you are going to say that you don't yet have the seal and you won't receive salvation until you have endured to the end, then remember this: if you don't have the Holy Spirit of Christ within you, if you are not yet sealed by the Spirit, then you are not one of His.

Why all this talk about forcing us to pray and so on? Do you not LOVE Him? Why in the world would a born again Christian teach something to offend a little one who loves Him? That warning is for unbelievers who teach believing children to be atheists. (I hope Darwin spends eternity measuring bird beaks).

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WildB
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Because says "Betty, you think it OK to partake of Billy Joel's life through his music... I never even heard of him till tonight and what little I know about him, I know I want nothing to do with him...."

My such a forgiving spirit we are showing the baseball fans.

It is good are Lord don't think like u Hum?

or do you think your stone throwing arm is progressively better than others?

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Why all this talk about forcing us to pray and so on?
because salvation is not instant, it is progressive...believer still have the free will to choose to follow or not follow, to deny Yahshua or turn their back on Him when persecution comes...

Because He is Eternal and a believer is only eternal when abiding in Him...

quote:
Do you not LOVE Him?
Yes I love Him but I know it is possible to leave my first love....Yet I have this one thing against you that you have left your first love. Rev. 2

23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

choices Carol Choices....

quote:
Why in the world would a born again Christian teach something to offend a little one who loves Him?
That what this discussion is about....one of us is wrong and who ever is wrong is in serious trouble with the Lord because we can not both be right....

you see all the warning in the scripture as loss of rewards...I would not give it a second thought if it was just about losing rewards....

I did not make Yahshua Lord of my life to get rewards....

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
Why all this talk about forcing us to pray and so on?
because salvation is not instant, it is progressive...believer still have the free will to choose to follow or not follow, to deny Yahshua or turn their back on Him when persecution comes...

Because He is Eternal and a believer is only eternal when abiding in Him...

quote:
Do you not LOVE Him?
Yes I love Him but I know it is possible to leave my first love....Yet I have this one thing against you that you have left your first love. Rev. 2

23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

choices Carol Choices....

quote:
Why in the world would a born again Christian teach something to offend a little one who loves Him?
That what this discussion is about....one of us is wrong and who ever is wrong is in serious trouble with the Lord because we can not both be right....

you see all the warning in the scripture as loss of rewards...I would not give it a second thought if it was just about losing rewards....

I did not make Yahshua Lord of my life to get rewards....

Humm progressive salvation. Now thats a teachin Im a going to bottle and sell.

Repent while the day is yet called day.

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Because said "no one falls from Grace when walking after the Spirit"

AFTER? Do u not mean in? After means you are not in?

WildB I did not know you did not except the King James version...that was what I was quoting....

Romans 8 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
Because said "no one falls from Grace when walking after the Spirit"

AFTER? Do u not mean in? After means you are not in?

WildB I did not know you did not except the King James version...that was what I was quoting....

Romans 8 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You try so hard. Didint you read "in Christ Jesus"

is first in the sentence read.

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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Progressive salvation refers to the journey of a believer between conversion and death. It is the only path that leads to eternal life (Romans 6:20-23), and is walked by faith alone, in the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8, Galatians 3:2-5). It contains bumps and struggles and setbacks, but is marked by growth in love for others and for God. It involves a fight of faith, a striving for peace and holiness (Hebrews 12:14, 1 John 1:9), and a reoccurring approach of the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16). "[O]ur Lord Jesus Christ... will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:7-9) Perseverance of the saints

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Progressive salvation refers to the journey of a believer between conversion and death. It is the only path that leads to eternal life (Romans 6:20-23), and is walked by faith alone, in the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8, Galatians 3:2-5). It contains bumps and struggles and setbacks, but is marked by growth in love for others and for God. It involves a fight of faith, a striving for peace and holiness (Hebrews 12:14, 1 John 1:9), and a reoccurring approach of the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16). "[O]ur Lord Jesus Christ... will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:7-9) Perseverance of the saints

You try so hard. Salvation is not progressive, but sanctification is.

Philippians 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

quote:
because salvation is not instant, it is progressive...believer still have the free will to choose to follow or not follow, to deny Yahshua or turn their back on Him when persecution comes...
Progressive salvation is not what you think it is. It means we are saved from the penalty of sin when we receive Christ, we are being saved from the power of sin throughout life, and we will one day be saved from the presence of sin.

quote:
Because He is Eternal and a believer is only eternal when abiding in Him...

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them , and they will never perish ; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

I and the Father are one. (John 10:27-30)

quote:
Yes I love Him but I know it is possible to leave my first love....Yet I have this one thing against you that you have left your first love. Rev. 2

23Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life.

choices Carol Choices....

The man, who asked the unanswerable question, “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ?” was murdered because of his love for Christ. “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered” (Romans 8: 36; Psalm 44:12).

Paul is emphatic in his statement that nothing in life or death can separate us from the love of Christ. To live is Christ and to die is gain.

quote:
That what this discussion is about....one of us is wrong and who ever is wrong is in serious trouble with the Lord because we can not both be right....

you see all the warning in the scripture as loss of rewards...I would not give it a second thought if it was just about losing rewards....

I did not make Yahshua Lord of my life to get rewards....

I did not make Him Lord of my life at all. He already was, is, and always shall be Lord. All we can do is realize that He is the Lord and we are sinners, confess and repent, and put our faith in Him. But I get your point about rewards, until I learned that the reward is to spend eternity closer to Him.

I serve Him because I love Him. I think you serve Him to earn salvation, which is legalism, and is really serving yourself.


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becauseHElives
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Wildb read the whole sentence not part of the sentence...it is what they call in English "a complete sentence"

To be grammatically complete, a sentence must have a subject, verb, and present a complete
thought.

A sentence fragment is part of a sentence presented as if it were a complete sentence.

"in Christ Jesus" is a fragment of a sentence....


Fragments are considered grammatically unacceptable because they only present a “fragment” of a
thought, thus confusing the reader and making communication ineffective.

but then that how you communicate isn't it , in fragments but the scriptures must be taken as a whole not a fragment!

again ...the whole sentence reads....There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
"[O]ur Lord Jesus Christ... will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:7-9)

Exactly!

Here is more of the article you quoted. I think you misunderstood the meaning of progressive salvation. You confuse it with sanctification.

SALVATION

In theology, the study of salvation is called soteriology, from the Greek soteria meaning "salvation". Salvation, virtually synonymous with the overall concept of redemption, includes a past, present, and future sense. As Christians, we were saved from the penalty of sin when God brought us to faith in Christ; we are presently being saved from the power of sin as the Holy Spirit sanctifies us; and we will someday be saved from the presence of sin when we meet Christ face to face in glory. This idea is presented below in terms of initial, progressive, and final salvation.

Initial salvation

Initial salvation refers to the event of a person's conversion. If you repent of your sin and turn in faith to Christ as Lord and Savior, your sins are immediately forgiven, your fight of faith has begun, and your future in Christ is secured forever. "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved." (Romans 10:13) "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:3-7)

Progressive salvation

Progressive salvation refers to the journey of a believer between conversion and death. It is the only path that leads to eternal life (Romans 6:20-23), and is walked by faith alone, in the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8, Galatians 3:2-5). It contains bumps and struggles and setbacks, but is marked by growth in love for others and for God. It involves a fight of faith, a striving for peace and holiness (Hebrews 12:14, 1 John 1:9), and a reoccurring approach of the throne of grace (Hebrews 4:16). "[O]ur Lord Jesus Christ... will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." (1 Corinthians 1:7-9)

Final salvation

Final salvation refers to the event of God saving his people at the final judgment.


http://www.theopedia.com/Salvation

I would add that final salvation occurs when we are forever saved from the presence of sin and Satan is forever cast into the lake of fire.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Wildb read the whole sentence not part of the sentence...it is what they call in English "a complete sentence"

To be grammatically complete, a sentence must have a subject, verb, and present a complete
thought.

A sentence fragment is part of a sentence presented as if it were a complete sentence.

"in Christ Jesus" is a fragment of a sentence....


Fragments are considered grammatically unacceptable because they only present a “fragment” of a
thought, thus confusing the reader and making communication ineffective.

but then that how you communicate isn't it , in fragments but the scriptures must be taken as a whole not a fragment!

again ...the whole sentence reads....There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

You try sooo hard to be a man. Where is this in that?

"falls from Grace"

Its what you ADDED.

quote:
Because said "no one falls from Grace when walking after the Spirit"

AFTER? Do u not mean in? After means you are not in?
WildB I did not know you did not except the King James version...that was what I was quoting....

Romans 8 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


One falls from Grace by returning to the Law.

--------------------
That is all.....

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becauseHElives
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1) And to the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2) Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3) Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4) Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before His angels.
6) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
-Revelation 3:1-6

One point that most people miss here is that for your name to be blotted out of the Book of Life it first had to be in there, in other words you were saved at one point.

Unconditional eternal security believers will try and tell you that those people were never truly saved in the first place.

That argument does not hold water because you cannot get your name into the Book of Life unless you are saved.

If your name can be taken out of the Book of Life then you can lose you salvation, it's that simple.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
One point that most people miss here is that for your name to be blotted out of the Book of Life it first had to be in there, in other words you were saved at one point.

Unconditional eternal security believers will try and tell you that those people were never truly saved in the first place.

That argument does not hold water because you cannot get your name into the Book of Life unless you are saved.

If your name can be taken out of the Book of Life then you can lose you salvation, it's that simple.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."


Everyone ever born starts out in the Book of Life. But only believers in Christ are in the Lamb's Book of Life.
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Carol Swenson
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What Does The Bible Say About The Book of Life?

The Book of Life is the book in which appears the name of every person who is born. The Lamb's Book of Life is the book in which appears the name of every person who has been born again, spiritually speaking, who has been saved through the blood of the Lamb, the Lord Jesus Christ. These are not actually books, but God speaks to man in the language that he can understand. To say that our names are in these books is to say that we are in the mind of God. When do our names appear in these books? The answer is found in Psalm 139:16:


"Thine eyes did see mine unformed substance;
And in thy book they were all written,
Even the days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was none of them."


Also in Revelation 13:8 we find that, in the foreknowledge and omniscience of God, our names appeared in these books "from the foundation of the world."

The Book of Life is mentioned in Psalm 69:28, along with the Lamb's Book. Through the law of double reference, the plea of David blends into that of the Lord Jesus Christ in verses 19 to 28. Speaking of the leaders, the authorities, such as Caiaphas, who perpetrated His arrest and crucifixion, He pleads:


27 "Add iniquity unto their iniquity;
And let them not come into thy righteousness,
28 Let them be blotted out of the book of life,
And not be written with the righteous."


This passage reveals that names can be blotted out of the Book of Life. We know that none can be blotted out of the Lamb's Book, because no one who has been saved is ever lost. In this passage, then, the plea is made that these wicked ones have their names removed from the Book of Life that they never have salvation-never have their names enrolled with the righteous in the Lamb's Book. This prayer is not contradictory to the prayer on the cross, "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." As this prayer clearly indicates, it is for those who in ignorance were led to join in the cry, "Crucify him; crucify him." It is not for those in authority who knowingly and willfully perpetrated the most heinous crime in all history.

The Book of Life is mentioned in Revelation, chapter 3:

"4 But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy. 5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."

This passage shows that the righteous will have their names retained in the Book of Life. From the statement that the Lord Jesus will confess the names of these persons before God Father, we know that their names are also in the Lamb's Book of Life.

In Revelation 13:8 we learn that during the Tribulation all those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will worship the Antichrist: "And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain."

Lastly we learn of the Book of Life in Revelation 20:11-15, the judgment of the Great White Throne, before which only the wicked will appear:

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

To summarize, every one has his name written in the "Book of life". The wicked will have their names blotted out of this book. The righteous, the born-again believers, have their names written in the Book of Life and in the Lamb's Book, and they will never have their names blotted out of either one.

http://www.biblicalresearch.info/page287.html

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becauseHElives
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Carol that is a poor interpretation of scripture...there are not two different books of Life , there is only one...

Phl 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life.

Lamb's Book of Life and Book of Life are the same book!

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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quote:
Lamb's Book of Life and Book of Life are the same book!
No they are not. Every person's name is in the Book of Life until he dies, and if he has not given his life to Christ then he is blotted out. In the end they will be the same because only those redeemed by Christ, who are in the Lamb's Book of Life, will live and be in the Book of Life.

In Revelation 13:8 and 21:27, we find the references to the "Lamb's book of life," in which are the names of all those who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ.

If the names of believers are written from the foundation of the world, and if God knows all things, why would He enter the name of somebody who would one day fall and have to be removed from the book? We are enrolled in heaven because we have been born again (Heb. 12:23), and no matter how disobedient a child may be, he or she cannot be "unborn."

As unbelievers die, their names are removed from the book; thus, at the final judgment, the book contains only the names of believers (Rev. 20:12-15). It then becomes "the Lamb's Book of Life" (Rev. 21:27), because only those saved by the Lord Jesus Christ have their names in it. All the others have been blotted out, something God would never do for any true child of God (see Ex. 32:32; Rom. 9:3). It is a book of life, and lost sinners are dead (Eph. 2:1).

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becauseHElives
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quote:
WildB said..... One falls from Grace by returning to the Law.
The Apostle Paul says......13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

Paul is saying the same thing James is saying...

James 1...

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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barrykind
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1.Philippians 4:3 (Whole Chapter)
And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.


2.Revelation 3:5 (Whole Chapter)
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


3.Revelation 13:8 (Whole Chapter)
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.


4.Revelation 17:8 (Whole Chapter)
The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.


5.Revelation 20:12 (Whole Chapter)
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


6.Revelation 20:15 (Whole Chapter)
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


7.Revelation 21:27 (Whole Chapter)
And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


8.Revelation 22:19 (Whole Chapter)
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
WildB said..... One falls from Grace by returning to the Law.
The Apostle Paul says......13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)


Dale Please stop your sillyness.

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,
18 And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law;
19 And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness,
20 An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law.
21 Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. (Galatians 5:4)
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barrykind
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Is there a difference between the “book of life” and the “Lamb’s book of life”?
The “book of life” is mentioned in Philippians 4:3 and in Revelation 3:5; 13:8; 17:8; 20:12,15; 21:27. It is called the “Lamb’s book of life” (the Lamb is Jesus) in Revelation 13:8 and 21:27. There appears to be no distinction between the “book of life” and the “Lamb’s book of life”. It is described as a book where the names of the faithful are written.

While the phrase “book of life” is not found in the Old Testament, the idea of a book where God has written the names of faithful people is found, for example, in Exodus 32:32-33; Psalm 69:28; Daniel 12:1; and Malachi 3:16. I think the book is symbolic rather than literal. The idea is that God knows who you are and what sort of person you are. If your name is in his book of life, then you have a place in his kingdom.
.

http://bibleq.info/answer/960/

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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Things to read and think about:

Are the tree of life and the Lamb’s book of life the same?
There are no Bible passages suggesting that the tree of life is the same thing as the Lamb’s book of life. By looking at scriptures that talk about them individually we can conclude that they are different. The tree of life is a divine source of eternal life and the Lamb’s book of life is a record of those who will be given eternal life.

The Tree of Life
The tree of life is only mentioned in 3 books of the Bible. We first come across it in Genesis 2:

“And out of the ground the LORD God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.” Genesis 2:9

The tree of life is described as a real, physical tree that God created. It would appear that Adam and Eve were allowed to eat from the tree (Genesis 2:16-17), but there is no actual record of them doing so. Genesis 3:22 reveals that eating fruit from the tree would make the eater live for ever. After ‘The Fall’, the tree was to be guarded from the reach of sinful humanity (Genesis 3:24).

The expression ‘tree of life’ is mentioned four times in the book of Proverbs (Proverbs 3:18, 11:30, 13:12 & 15:4). The book of Proverbs often uses imagery to make a point. In Proverbs the ‘tree of life’ (not necessarily the literal tree) is linked with wisdom, the fruit of the righteous, fulfilled desire and a gentle tongue.

The tree of life makes its last appearance in the book of Revelation. Jesus uses symbolic language when telling believers about the reward of eternal life:

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.” Revelation 2:7

The tree of life’s final mention is in the last chapter of the Bible:

“Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb through the middle of the street of the city; also, on either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.” Revelation 22:2 (It is also mentioned in Revelation 22:14 & 19)

The tree could well be a literal tree upon the earth in the future Kingdom of God. Alternatively, as the book of Revelation uses symbolic language, its mention could represent the divine source of eternal life; offered to the faithful in the future age.

The Book of Life
The term ‘book of life’ (or ‘book of the living’) is only recorded in 3 books of the Bible. However, there are a number of other passages that would seem to refer to it. Its first occurrence is found when Moses asks God to forgive the people for making the golden calf idol:

“Alas, this people has sinned a great sin. They have made for themselves gods of gold. But now, if you will forgive their sin—but if not, please blot me out of your book that you have written.” But the LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.” Exodus 32:31-33

The book of life may be a real physical book — but it does not need to be. It could be symbolic language referring to a record of the names of those who will be delivered from eternal death. It’s interesting to note that God and Moses imply that the names have already been written in the book (see Revelation 13:8, 17:8), yet there is the potential for names to be removed.

Other references to the book of life include Psalm 69:28, Daniel 12:1-2 and Philippians 4:3. Was Jesus referring to the book of life when he said the following to his disciples?

“…rejoice that your names are written in heaven.” Luke 10:20

Like the tree of life, the book of life, is mentioned by Jesus in Revelation. It is part of the symbolic language that he uses to describe the reward of the faithful:

“The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.” Revelation 3:5

In Revelation the book of life is associated with the Lamb (Revelation 13:8, 21:27) — the Lord Jesus Christ — God’s appointed judge (2 Timothy 4:1). At the final judgement, the book of life will be opened (Revelation 20:11-15) and those whose names are recorded therein will be given eternal life and enjoy fellowship with God.
.

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
WildB said..... One falls from Grace by returning to the Law.
Paul is saying the same thing James is saying...

James 1...

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.

25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

JAMES 1

James 1
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


All SCRIPTURE IS FOR US BUT NOT ALL TO US.

Learn to rightly divide.

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That is all.....

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barrykind
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i have never heard that the "Book of Life" and the "Lambs Book of Life were two (2) different books Carol?

Where do you get that notion?

Carol States:

quote:

posted October 26, 2010 04:25 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No they are not. A person's name is in the Book of Life until he dies, and if he has not given his life to Christ then he is blotted out. In the end they will be the same because only those redeemed by Christ will live and be in the Book of Life.

In Revelation 13:8 and 21:27, we find the references to the "Lamb's book of life," in which are the names of all those who have been washed by the blood of the Lamb, Jesus Christ.



Where do you get your understanding in scripture for that Sister?

[Bible]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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The Book Of Life
The book of life has stirred the curiosity of many students of the Bible. In particular, the scriptures say that...

Disciples of Christ have their names recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20b).


Members of the church have their names written in heaven (Hebrews 12:23a).


Paul’s fellow servants had their names written in the book of life (Philippians 4:3).
Thus, most of those in the religious world believe the book of life is the heavenly register of the redeemed. This certainly seems to be the correct interpretation in view of Revelation 20:15, which says that on the day of judgment anyone whose name is not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire.

Up to this point, most of our denominational friends would agree with us concerning these comments. But, at this point, a clear cut dichotomy occurs. Many believe that once one’s name is enrolled in the book of life nothing can happen that would cause it to be erased. This belief is commonly referred to as “Once saved, always saved.”


One reason this teaching has arisen is because our religious friends have failed to deal properly with Revelation 3:5. A quotation from a discussion under the heading “Book of Life” in the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia (Moody Press, Vol. 2, page 1038) illustrates this point:

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Rev. 3:5 also speaks of being blotted out of the book of life, meaning here the list of the saved. Some say that such a blotting out is possible and implied. But that a saved person could thus lose his salvation is felt by many to contradict those passages which teach the security of the believer in Christ. Consequently, these interpreters have taken one of the following approaches: (1) Rev. 3:5 does not explicitly say that anyone’s name will be blotted out; (2) this register originally has everyone’s name on it, but when a person finally rejects Christ his name is blotted out; (3) the book of life in Rev. 3:5 is the register of profession from which names will be erased, whereas the Lamb’s book of life (Rev. 13:8; 17:8; 20:12,15; 21:27 referring to the Lamb’s book of life though not specifically so called in every verse) contains only the names of genuine believers from which no names can be erased.
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It is apparent that many of our denominational friends will believe whatever they want to believe in spite of what the Bible says. Consider now, carefully, the passage under discussion:


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And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; these things said He that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; “I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things that remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember, therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come upon thee as a thief, and thou shatl not know the hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches” (Revelation 3:1-6).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, true to form, the Westminister Confession of Faith, which was written in 1643, says:


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They whom God has accepted can neither totally nor finally fall from the state of grace: but shall certainly preserve therein to the end and be eternally saved (Henry Bitterson, Documents of the Christian Church, London: Oxford University Press, 1963, page 347).
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Similarly, Sam Morris, pastor of the First Baptist Church in Stamford, Texas, said it this way:


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We take the position that a Christian’s sins do not damn his soul! ...[A]ll the sins he may commit from idolatry to murder will not make his soul in any more danger. ...The way a man lives has nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his soul (Morris, A Discussion Which Involves a Subject Pertinent to All Men, pages 1-2).
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Now, if a man can understand anything, then he ought to understand that Revelation 3:5 teaches, by necessary inference, that the Lord can, and will, blot out the names of all who will not overcome through His blood. Therefore, we appeal to our denominational friends to seriously consider the problem of harmonizing the passage under consideration with the teaching of “Once saved, always saved.” Considering this difficulty, we encourage you to study the various warnings to the saints found in 2 Thessalonians 2:3; Hebrews 12:15; 2 Peter 1:9; 2 Peter 3:14; Galatians 5:4; James 5:19; 1 Timothy 5:15; 1 Corinthians 8:11; 2 Peter 2:15-22; 1 Peter 5:8; 1 Corinthians 9:27; Revelation 22:19; and Matthew 25:30. We then encourage you to “know the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus” (2 Timothy 3:15).

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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THE BOOK OF BOOKS

"And the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works" (Rev. 20:12).

We believe there are three sets of books made reference to here by the Apostle John. The statement "the books were opened" includes the 66 Books of the Bible and the books that record the deeds of the unsaved. The third book that is opened is the book of life.

According to the Apostle Paul, "God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel" (Rom. 2:16). Here we learn that the written Word of God will play a prominent role in the sentencing phase of those who reject the gospel. But in what sense is the unbeliever judged according to Paul's gospel, especially since many in the sea of humanity standing before God lived prior to the administration of Grace? How can they be held responsible for a revelation that they never heard? Simple! The answer lies in the mystery of the gospel. The secret of the gospel, which is Calvary, was first revealed to Paul. At God's appointed time it was made known in Paul's epistles that Christ died for the sins of the world—past, present and future. This is the foundation of all of God's good news down through the ages and the ages to come.

Stam gives this insightful response:

"The answer is that Christ was to die for sin and that on this basis God could justly accept those who approached Him in the way that He had prescribed....Thus, the judgment of the Great White Throne will be presided over by the One who died for our sins and will proceed on the basis of the good news proclaimed by Paul, that through the death of Christ for sin, salvation is, and always has been essentially by grace, through faith; that never in any age has salvation been denied to one person who has taken God at His Word and has approached Him by faith the way that He prescribed."1

The Books of the Bible reveal the mind and will of God in each dispensation; therefore, they will serve as the final authority in the sentencing of the unsaved. For example, those who lived under the law will be judged by the law (Rom. 2:12). Since both the saved and unsaved failed miserably under the Mosaic system, the issue for the unbelieving will not be if they consistently kept every detail of the law, but did they respond to God in faith. The piercing gaze of the One who sits on the throne will bring to light that they blatantly rejected the counsel of God and went about to establish their own righteousness. The self-righteous ways of those who lived under this system will ultimately condemn them and demonstrate their lack of faith.

"And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works" (Rev. 20:12).

Interestingly, all of the future judgments of God are a review of works. For the believer, our rewards, crowns, and reigning position with Christ will be determined by our conduct and good works after we were saved. The works of the unbeliever will be reviewed as well to ascertain the degree of punishment they will endure throughout eternity in the lake of fire. Nothing has escaped the all-seeing eye of Almighty God. In preparation of that day, a meticulous record is being kept of the unrighteous acts of the unsaved.

Seeing that unbelievers are judged according to their works, some evil deeds will carry a greater penalty than others. The same is true in the affairs of men. A man who steals from his employer is likely to be placed on probation and have to pay restitution, while a man who commits an armed robbery at a bank is given prison time. The penalty always matches the violation, or at least this is the intent of the law. In God's court of justice perfect retribution will be paid. "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord!" The atrocities of evil men and the corrupt influences that remained after their death will be carefully weighed out on the scales of God's justice and they will suffer the degree of punishment that is equal to their sins.

"And the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life" (Rev. 20:12).

The subject of the "book of life" has suffered greatly at the hands of well-meaning Bible teachers. The traditional interpretation goes something like this: when a sinner trusts Christ as his personal Savior the angels in heaven write his name in the book of life and seal it there with the blood of Christ. But does this interpretation pass the Berean test? We believe just the opposite is true. Clearly the Scriptures teach that from the foundation of the world every name has been recorded in the book of life. God has made reservations for all! When the enemies of David sought to trouble him, he lifted his voice to God with these words:

"Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into Thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous" (Psa. 69:27,28).

David was so perplexed over the actions of the unrighteous who were hindering the plans and purposes of God that he prayed God would blot them out of the book of life and not allow their names to be written alongside of the righteous. Obviously the names of the unrighteous appear in the book for there to be the possibility to blot them out. Once again, God has made a provision for all to be saved on the basis of the shed blood of Christ, but only those who believe the gospel in whatever age they lived will receive the benefit of His once-for-all sacrifice.

If a sinner dies in his sins having rejected the three witnesses of God: creation, conscience, and the Word of God, his name is blotted out of the book of the living. This will serve as a testimony against the unsaved because their names will not be found in the book of life at that day. Those who are cast into the lake of fire will be haunted for eternity by that blank space where their name once appeared. If only I had believed!!! Beloved, have we faithfully upheld our responsibility to warn them of this peril?

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That is all.....

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yahsway
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Just as Stam believes there are "3 sets of books" so to do the Jewish people believe in 3 books.

Now this is only my opinion for now as i have not done enough study on this subject but i believe there is the Book of Life which is a record of everyone born on this earth physically.

I also believe there is the Lambs book of Life of everyone that is born again, born from above, a spiritual birth.

I will continue to study more on this subject.

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Carol Swenson
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barrykind

quote:
have never heard that the "Book of Life" and the "Lambs Book of Life were two (2) different books Carol?

Where do you get that notion?

barry, I don't think of them as actual, physical books. God doesn't need to use books. They represent realities. Everyone ever born is in the Book of Life - their life is a reality. When someone dies as an unbeliever, his name is blotted out of the Book of Life - he is no longer alive.

When a person comes to Christ, he is then in the Lamb's Book of Life. Life in Christ is the believer's new reality.

At the final judgment, all the unbelievers will be dead, so the Book of Life will have only the names of believers in it. Their names will also be in the Lamb's Book. Their reality is that they are alive with eternal life, and they are believers.

The Book of Life and the Lamb's Book will be the same.

Remember, after His crucifixion, Christ redeemed all the Old Testament saints, so they are also believers in Christ.

Human reality is that we are either alive in the world and we have eternal life in Christ, or we die as unbelievers.

The BOOK OF LIFE

The Bible mentions various books, Num. 14, the Book of the Wars of the Lord, Ps 69:28 and Isa. 4:3 Book of the Living; Mal 3:16, Book of Remembrance, Rev. 20-12, Lamb's Book of Life. There are also many books in keeping the record of an individuals life.

Exod. 32:33: "And the LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book." If one dies without forgiveness of their sins their name vanishes out of the record book of life.

Ps. 139:16: "Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them." God knows who are his, even before they are born, everyone who lives is written in the book of life.

The book of life is a old and new testament doctrine. Phil 4:3 Paul recognized those who labored with him in the gospel, 'with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the Book of Life. "

Rev.3:5: "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." We overcome by our faith which is exhibited by faithfulness.

The Bible teaches there are three different kinds of death

1) dead in trespasses and sins- we are spiritually dead and severed from a relationship of the true God while we are living because of our sinful condition. "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses." (Col 2:13-14;Eph.2:1) 1 Tim 5:7 "But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (speaking of being separated from God).

2) physical death- that is the consequence of sins. Rom.3:23 "the wages of sin is death.” (Rom.5) James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead..."

God's solution is the resurrection to eternal life 1 Thess. 4:16-17: " For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Rev. 2:11: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Rev. 20:6: "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

3) the 2nd death- eternal separation from God in both body and spirit.

The second death is the final consequence of refusing the gospel of Jesus Christ. It is in reference to having no change, being eternally permanent after they are resurrected. Unbelievers are resurrected brought before the throne and judged, to be sentenced in both body and spirit. All unbelievers from the beginning of time began are resurrected put back in their bodies and then put in the lake of fire in which they will now suffer in both the soul and body forever continuing in even a worse state.

The Book of life- is a record of everyone born

If a person dies as a believer his name is retained in the book of life, if he dies unsaved he is blotted out. Ps. 69:28: "Let them be blotted out of the book of the living and not be written with the righteous."

The righteous are those who obeyed by having faith in the gospel.

Rev.13:8: "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

Those who were not born again will not worship Jesus Christ but the false Messiah during the tribulation period when he is revealed.

Rev.17:8:..."and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world."

Both these scriptures show that everyone not in the Lambs book of Life will follow the Beast, yet they are found in the book of Life that records everyone who is born. How do we reconcile this with it saying, anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)

Daniel also prophesied the judgment with books open. Dan 7:10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened. Also in Dan.12 he mentions a time when Israel will be delivered and there will be those found written in the book. ( a reference to judgment probably of the just and unjust, as he states their position in the resurrection.)

Rev.20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

What are the things which were written in the books.” These books record everything we have done (every idle word spoken relating to God and Jesus). The other books mentioned are the biographies of the individual. The times they heard the Gospel and rejected it, their good and bad deeds that will determine their degree of punishment, not their salvation. God has perfect record keeping.

The term "another book," is the roll-book of the regenerated, those washed and sanctified through faith in His blood sacrifice for their sins. The first death consisted in the separation of the soul from the body temporarily until this judgment. The second death in the separation of both body and soul from God forever. The first death has a resurrection unto eternal life without sin; the second death is there is no recovery.

Ps. 9:5: “You have rebuked the nations, you have destroyed the wicked; you have blotted out their name forever and ever.”
Those who received Christ have their name written in his book of life (the Lamb's book) and it is retained in the Book of Life. Those who reject him, never have their name written in his book. Their name is also removed from the book of life, of which everyone’s name is written down that ever lived.

So there are several books, the book of records of their deeds, possibly the book of the law showing when they broke it. The book of life records their physical birth, and the Lamb's book of life which records their second birth (Spiritual). To be in the Lamb's book means one is in the new covenant and has been cleansed by the blood of the lamb. If one is born twice they will not be judged for punishment by the 2nd death, but have passed from death unto life. If you're born twice you will die once, if you're born once you will die twice (physically and spiritually). The great white throne judgment is the 2nd resurrection which is strictly for unbelievers (which takes place at the end of the Millennium) since believers have all been glorified in the different stages by the first resurrection.

Heb. 12:23: "To the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect." The Greek word is apographo which means to write (a copy or list), i.e. enrol: (Strong's Numbers and Concordance.) Thayer's Greek Lexicon says it means to enter in a register or records specially, to enter the names of men, their property, and income in public records to enroll. If you are born again you then become a pilgrim on earth heading for your permanent home in heaven

Is your name registered in heaven in the Lamb's book of life. There is only one way for this to occur. You must recognize Christ's sacrifice for you, admit you have sinned and need his forgiveness. Ask him to cleanse you by his blood he shed for your sins on the cross. Then your name will be on the register forever.

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct5.htm

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barrykind
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wildbully have you thought about Brother Dales Question?

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
wildbully have you thought about Brother Dales Question?

Have you read what anyone eles besides your self has posted?

Or is it just your ignorance that per-motes dissension?

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That is all.....

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oneinchrist
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Hello again Carol,

You said:

We forgive because the Holy Spirit of Christ lives within us. We obey the law of Christ because His Spirit lives within us. We will never fall into judgment or fall from grace when we are led by the Spirit.

My question for you: Do you believe that one chooses(by the exercise of their God given will) to forgive? or do you believe that it is an impulsive act to one who is born-again?

My past personal experience has been that the Holy Spirit would convict me of being unforgiving...........and then leave me with a choice to make.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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oneinChrist,

Our choice was made when we gave our lives to Christ.

But Jesus told him, "Anyone who puts a hand to the plow and then looks back is not fit for the Kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62)

"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." (Gal. 2:20)

Did you read the post about Stephen?

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oneinchrist
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Good Morning Carol,
So, what you are saying then......please correct me if I am wrong......

...that "forgiveness" is a natural impulse to one who is born-again???

So we(who have the spirit)no longer have to make the daily choice of yielding ourslelves over to the fruit of the spirit?and that the flesh no longer wars against the spirit???

Please explain. This is where I am confused about your line of thinking.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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I guess it depends on how a person views love. For some people, love is all about rules and responsibilities, a sort of military do-or-die perspective. Other people have a very romantic view of love, and for them it's all about desire and being pampered and adored. While still others have a more balanced, share and share alike, give-and-take perspective of love.

When we give our lives to Christ as our Lord and Savior, our view of love is going to influence our view of that commitment to Him.

Christ gave everything for us, so a balanced commitment would mean giving our everything for Him. He doesn't force us, and I don't mean to imply that. The Holy Spirit doesn't possess us and take over like a demonic spirit. He loves us and wants what is best for us. We need to know that, trust Him completely, and submit ourselves to Him totally. Be in-love with Christ.

Some things, like forgiveness or loving our enemies, may not feel natural at first. But as we submit to Him and His Word, all that He leads us to do will start feeling natural to us, because we are, after all, made in the image of God. We become more and more Christ-like.

Sanctification is progressive, and the more we submit to Him and His Word, the more we will progress. And the more natural it will be.

But because He loves us, He will NEVER let us choose to go to hell.

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oneinchrist
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Good evening Carol,
Thank you for your response. You have answered my question and then some. I feel like I know you more personally through that post and it is a good feeling.

I have an in-law on my wife's side who left his wife for a lot younger woman. He had other issues besides his adultery........like drinking and pornography addiction. It is my understanding that he was at one time converted to Jesus.....living the faith(according to his wife). I dont think that he ever came to a time where he would of said to himself that he wanted to leave God and go to Hell. I dont think it happens that way. Just like our sanctification is a progressive learning/growing process, I think that falling out of love with the Lord is a gradual process where ones heart is more and more hardened to the things of God. Dont get me wrong.....I do believe that God has convicted him of his sin(chastised), but I think that God then waits for him to turn back on his own accord. Do you think that it is reality that everyone eventually turns back to God to restore their relationship with Him?

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Do you think that it is reality that everyone eventually turns back to God to restore their relationship with Him?
My faith is not based on what people do. My faith is in the work and person of the Savior. When He chooses to save someone, that person will be saved, and I don't for a minute believe that our Lord only takes on the easy cases.

He disciplines those He loves. That doesn't mean that He tries and fails. He knows everything there is to know about a person He saves, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose. He doesn't possess us and force us, but He disciplines us.

I said before, "When we give our lives to Christ as our Lord and Savior, our view of love is going to influence our view of that commitment to Him." Let me add here that our view of love does not influence His view of commitment to us, and His love will eventually change whatever view of love we started out with.

I don't know your in-law, but I know that there are many people who profess Christ and maybe go to church, but they have not been born again. A regenerated person is changed, he becomes spiritually alive.

In redemption, the sinner is called by God and regenerated, justified, and adopted into the family of God and, thereafter, is called to live according to the righteousness of God. The doctrine of sanctification concerns the regenerated sinner's conformity to holiness.

I'm going to quote this from the Westminster Larger Catechism, although I'm not a Calvinist, because it is a good statement of what I believe:

Sanctification is a work of God's grace, whereby they whom God has, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.


But if all else fails,

1 Corinthians 5:5
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

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oneinchrist
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Hi Carol,
You could be right......maybe he was never born-again. Maybe God held the Holy Spirit back from him because of his unremorseful/unregretful infidelity. This (I have been told) has been a pattern throughout his life. In fact the in-law that he was married to is just another woman that he committed adultery with when he was married to another woman. Now hes in the middle of doing the same thing again. I believe that unrepentance will hinder our receiving of forgiveness and the Holy Spirit.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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barrykind
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Carol states:

quote:
My faith is not based on what people do. My faith is in the work and person of the Savior. When He chooses to save someone, that person will be saved, and I don't for a minute believe that our Lord only takes on the easy cases.

He disciplines those He loves. That doesn't mean that He tries and fails. He knows everything there is to know about a person He saves, and He never fails to accomplish His purpose. He doesn't possess us and force us, but He disciplines us.

I said before, "When we give our lives to Christ as our Lord and Savior, our view of love is going to influence our view of that commitment to Him." Let me add here that our view of love does not influence His view of commitment to us, and His love will eventually change whatever view of love we started out with.

I don't know your in-law, but I know that there are many people who profess Christ and maybe go to church, but they have not been born again. A regenerated person is changed, he becomes spiritually alive.

In redemption, the sinner is called by God and regenerated, justified, and adopted into the family of God and, thereafter, is called to live according to the righteousness of God. The doctrine of sanctification concerns the regenerated sinner's conformity to holiness.

I'm going to quote this from the Westminster Larger Catechism, although I'm not a Calvinist, because it is a good statement of what I believe:

Sanctification is a work of God's grace, whereby they whom God has, before the foundation of the world, chosen to be holy, are in time, through the powerful operation of his Spirit applying the death and resurrection of Christ unto them, renewed in their whole man after the image of God; having the seeds of repentance unto life, and all other saving graces, put into their hearts, and those graces so stirred up, increased, and strengthened, as that they more and more die unto sin, and rise unto newness of life.

Sanctification along with salvation is instantaneousand continual!

There is a distinction between.."being saved" and receiving the Spirit of YHWH; thruHIS SON Yahushua..

Listen:


If one receives the Spirit of YHWH, that person can say by faith "I'm Saved"; but if he does not endure unto the end..."Saved from what?"

That person received the "earnest" of salvation the Holy Spirit, by which that one is sealed..True.

But Yahushua, YHWH nor the Spirit of YHWh will EVER BREAK THIER PART OF THE "contract"....

So to me the question is not "whether that person was ever [saved], but did that person recieve the SPIRIT!

You can do despite to the Spirit of Grace and not only that you can "greive" the Holy Spirit!

So one "must" has to, ENDURE TO THE END!, the road is paved in the BLOOD OF YAHUSHUA!, it can be walked in the Spirit; but no where in scripture does it give place, to a "believer" or one that has recieved "forgiveness of sin" thru the blood of Chirst, that one can live in "sin" or the flesh and walk into heaven....

YHWH states: thru Yahushua "many" are "called" but few are chosen, now im not a "predestinationalist" but do fullyknow the "sovernty of YHWH; "Paul" being case in point!


Eternal Security, as i have said manytimes, i believe in...but must be explained...The scripture is clear; no man, woman, boy nor girl; devil, fallen angel, satan himself...that can PLUCk you [harpazo] you from YHWH's hand! Period:


BUT ONLY one can turn away; and thatnot without YHWH discipline, correction and drawing you back..for one can be backslidden and return ..

as the Prodigal son; in whom i am chief!


i full believe that "self" is truly part of the mark of the BEAST!

Rev says to him that overcomes.......will i give to eat from the tree of life...

Overcomes what...were already out of the world, overcomes what..

SELF! FOLKS

our rotten sin nature that is ever present with us a s Brother Paul said...

who shall deliver me from this "body of death!"

self..that fallen nature that we must thru the SPIRIT control, such a Yahushua [Jesus] did within himself..being man and God the WORD in the flesh..


YHWH cannot be tempted, but man can..so Yahushua was tempted in ALL points such as we were but WITHOUT SIN!!!!!!
Yahushua controlled his "man" nature; and walked the LAW, perfectly; therefore paying the price for our salvation; once and for all!

Dont come teaching this "sloppy" grace that some te4ach...this False Gospel of onlyPauls words are for the "church" today!


To teach "another Gospel" and or the sloppy grace that they are teaching today..cheapens the very BLOOD OF THE MESSIAH..

and i will die standing against that!!!!!!!!!


He [Yahushua] [Jesus] payedthat horrifice price, the death of the cross [tree] for us folks;

i want to serve Him with all that is within me...


Once some one has been born again...the work starts, putting our hand to the plow and looking back were not worthy...


works did not get us saved...that is "serving the law", "keeping" the law..because as James said:

breaking one point in the law; were guilty of all the law...and that penalty is DEATH:!


So we are saved by the 'work' [walk] of another; Yahushua the HaMasich!

who fulfilled the "law', CARRIED OUT THE LAW, WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH..PERFECTLY; SO NOW THERE IS A PERFECT SACRIFICE:


But as far as works...your decieved precious sister [not a nun]; there is works to be done; not to be saved but after saved...after recieving the Spirit!


The LAW is on my heart..to \"remember the Sabbath" is not only on my heart; its for ME, for MAN..its a good thing...


I do not want to displease YHWH in any way..

Like Carol [the sister thats not a nuhn.. [Smile] ]; said; its many more things than the law, its the true original purpose of the law..its the "LAW" of love..which is tougher that just eye for an eye!


[hug]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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errory your such a fair weather legalistic worm...

You say "If one receives the Spirit of YHWH, that person can say by faith "I'm Saved"; but if he does not endure unto the end..."Saved from what?"

First off , again whats a yhwn? Motorcycle? Whats that all about?

I think you would say/do whatever the VC told you 2 when Jane Fonda gave them the note your buds tried to get back to the "WE THE PEOPLE".

Errory you talk a real good game but I know from experience, that your of the type that would give out names and logistic numbers to save your but then confessed it when you got home.

One wouldn't want to go to Hell.

Right errory

The Lord's gift to me is discerning spirits.

Plow on , plow on.

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That is all.....

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barrykind
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bill states:

quote:
errory your such a fair weather legalistic worm...

You say "If one receives the Spirit of YHWH, that person can say by faith "I'm Saved"; but if he does not endure unto the end..."Saved from what?"

First off , again whats a yhwn? Motorcycle? Whats that all about?

I think you would say/do whatever the VC told you 2 when Jane Fonda gave them the note your buds tried to get back to the "WE THE PEOPLE".

Errory you talk a real good game but I know from experience, that your of the type that would give out names and logistic numbers to save your but then confessed it when you got home.

One wouldn't want to go to Hell.

Right errory

The Lord's gift to me is discerning spirits.

Plow on , plow on.


Bill you cannot even decearn the spirit you follow..

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
bill states:

quote:
errory your such a fair weather legalistic worm...

You say "If one receives the Spirit of YHWH, that person can say by faith "I'm Saved"; but if he does not endure unto the end..."Saved from what?"

First off , again whats a yhwn? Motorcycle? Whats that all about?

I think you would say/do whatever the VC told you 2 when Jane Fonda gave them the note your buds tried to get back to the "WE THE PEOPLE".

Errory you talk a real good game but I know from experience, that your of the type that would give out names and logistic numbers to save your but then confessed it when you got home.

One wouldn't want to go to Hell.

Right errory

The Lord's gift to me is discerning spirits.

Plow on , plow on.


Bill you cannot even decearn the spirit you follow..
Thats rather funny coming from you,lol.

Please stop I may wet myself.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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Bill states:

quote:
Thats rather funny coming from you,lol.

Please stop I may wet myself.


Done!

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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becauseHElives
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Fallen from Grace
Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

The above verse should be enough to motivate us all unto abiding in Christ and maintaining a living faith in Him. Because of all the controversy surrounding the unconditional eternal security doctrine, it is important that we rightly divide the word of truth and bring to light such biblical concepts. From scripture, we can clearly see that the possibility exists of falling from grace. This is a frightening concept, but we have a responsibility, not only to teach what we consider to be "uplifting" truths from the bible, but also those things that are sobering and cause us to remain fresh in our relationship with the Lord.

The above situation in Galatia was indeed grave. Without doing a whole commentary on the book of Galatians which is beyond the scope of this article, I'll give you a brief synopsis (and I encourage you to read this on your own as well). In a nutshell, there was a group (or possibly several groups) in Galatia that was insistent that those who had come to faith in Christ must also keep the law of Moses. No doubt there would have been some confusion for those who had come from a Hebraic perspective. This newfound freedom in Christ might have seemed dangerous to those who had held to the Mosaic law as a means of salvation. At a time when the nation was under tremendous pressure, and patriotism was at an all time high, it is equally obvious that they would want to identify with their Jewish culture and not seem as if they were jumping ship.

It appears that one of the primary points of contention was that of circumcision. Paul made it very clear to them however that circumcision was not the only tenet of the law that had to be obeyed. If one were to seek to be justified by the law (which is impossible anyway but I'm speaking hypothetically), they would not only have to be circumcised, but keep all 600 + laws.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

We know the scriptures declare that if "we offend in one point...we are guilty of all." The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ. It definitely served (and serves) it's purpose to show us our exceeding sinful condition and need for a Saviour.

Now that we have some of the historical background in focus, let's get back to the grave situation that Paul speaks of. I'll cite the verse again.

Galatians Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

In order to show the gravity of the situation, I think it's important to define the term "fallen from grace." The usage of this greek word "katargeo" was used to define the termination of a relationship with someone. This is the same word used in Romans chapter 7 where Paul describes the ending of a marriage covenant relationship. I'll give you the reference for your personal study and highlight the word "katargeo" translated "loosed" in Romans 7.

Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

The ironic thing is that in Romans, Paul was using a metaphor showing how we (as the body of Christ) were now dead to the law that we should be married to Christ. The situaton in Galatia was exactly the opposite....they were putting to death their relationship with Christ so that they might join (or marry) the law once more. In no uncertain terms, Paul (by the Holy Spirit) is saying that if these Galatian believers leave Christ and attempt to come under the law, the grace of Christ will be of no effect to them whatsoever-regardless of past profession or possesion. Remember in II Corinthians, we are warned not to receive the grace of God in vain. (thus showing it is possible to start well, but not finish the race at all.)

II Cor 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

Earlier in the letter, Paul had alluded to the possiblity that they may be in need of a new beginning. It is impossible to forget the imagery of Jesus word's in John chapter 3.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now contrast that with the language Paul used in Galatians.

Galatians 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

Many are tempted to say this group in Galatians had never truly been saved, but were false converts. I think that this verse shows indeed that they had received the Spirit of God. In Romans it declares that "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.."

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

This is proof-positive-that not only had they received the Spirit of God, but they had indeed begun new life in the Spirit!

The book of Galatians clearly refutes the false teaching of unconditional eternal security. The temptation is to think this only applies to the churches of Galatia. While it's true that most (though not all) of Christianity doesn't struggle with trying to keep the Mosaic law, the issue of falling from grace is still at the forefront. Whenever we cease to abide in Christ, we are in danger of falling from grace. Modern theologians preach a grace that takes the place of holy living. This is not the grace of the bible. In Titus we are told that the grace of God teaches us that denying ungodly and worldy lusts, we should live soberly, and righteously in thie present world. Jude warns against those who "turn the grace of God into lasciviousness." It is my sincere desire and prayer that everyone who reads this article will indeed continue to "grow in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (II Peter 3:18)

God bless you as you study His Word!

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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"From scripture, we can clearly see that the possibility exists of falling from grace."

By substituting it with the LAW!

"The book of Galatians clearly refutes the false teaching of unconditional eternal security."

false WITNESS-ER it does no such thing

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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barrykind

quote:
Rev says to him that overcomes.......will i give to eat from the tree of life...
Revelation 2:7
'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

The book of Revelation concerns the Tribulation followed by the Millennial Kingdom, and then the Eternal State.

First, I believe the Church will be Raptured before the Tribulation. Believers today already have eternal life. (John 10:27,28)

Secondly, during the Tribulation the people who come to faith, the Tribulation saints, will not be indwelt by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will be in the world as in Old Testament times, but not indwelling believers. Believers are going to have a very difficult time during those 7 years. They will have a lot to overcome.

Still, all scripture is profitable. We are constantly tempted and vexed by demons and shot with Satan's fiery darts. We need to wear the armor of God to overcome such things.

becauseHElives,

quote:
The book of Galatians clearly refutes the false teaching of unconditional eternal security
It clearly refutes the false teaching of legalism.

There is no such thing as unconditional eternal security. The conditions required are to repent and put our faith in Christ, receiving Him as our Lord and Savior.

He is omniscient - He is not going to "cast pearls before swine" by giving the precious gift of Life to pretenders. But will He save the weak and foolish? Not everyone is blessed with the intelligence, knowledge, and fortitude that you possess. Yes, I think He will save His silly children who love Him.

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