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Author Topic: Eternal Security
WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
He's your huckleberry

Best friends.
Best Friend", by Harry Nilsson

People let me tell you 'bout my best friend,
He's a warm hearted person who'll love me till the end.
People let me tell you 'bout my best friend,
He's a one boy cuddly toy, my up, my down, my pride and joy.

People let me tell you 'bout him he's so much fun
Whether we're talkin' man to man or whether we're talking son to son.
Cause he's my best friend.
Yes he's my best friend.
(scat finish).

--------------------
That is all.....

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
i stillreally inmy heart loveyou Carol!

I'm irresistible
ok im in love with berry.

yea berry i will take one for u 2

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
i stillreally inmy heart loveyou Carol!

I'm irresistible
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
i stillreally inmy heart loveyou Carol!

Love? take a bullet for her?

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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i stillreally inmy heart loveyou Carol!

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Carol states;

quote:
barrykind,

When you provoke people to anger in the real world, where do you run to tattle on them? The police you don't believe in?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never said i did not believe in Police Carol, you and betty sure ASSUME a lot, and misquote alot....

i wont stand here and let some one post : Christ is a liar..not withou action....i ask Bill several times, he would not answer as useual, excvept with chide remarks and name calling..

Take up and stand by ugliness Carol and you will pay for it Sister...mock me if you like, i dont care....but no one will post "Christ is a liar" without rebuke!

[hug] [thumbsup2]

My bad. I should have said you don't believe in Christian police.

WildB did not call Christ a liar. It was a typing mistake, just like the typing mistakes you make pretty often.

To be fair, I should make a really big deal about the fact that you wrote to walk in the Spirit means to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. I should go on and on about it, and accept no explanations.

You know, just to be fair.

I did not delete or ask WildB to delete that post. I asked him to fix it, meaning to rewrite it so it made sense. But he chose to delete it for reasons of his own.

I have stood by you more than once, barry, but if I stand by another you want to say I am unfair? I think you're the one who's unfair today.

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Betty Louise
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Barry is one of those who enjoy the security that men like WildB fought to give them. He talks down to people and then wines like a baby when we defend ourselves.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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Where do you go to tattle on people who are angry at you? You want to run to David here, so where do you go in the real world?

You're angry and difficult to talk to in this state. I more or less asked WildB to calm down, and I can only ask you to do the same.

I do NOT follow the Berean Bible Society. I do NOT agree with all their teachings. But I respect WildB's right to follow them as they are not considered to be a cult. I also respect your right to your beliefs.

People need to stay with debating doctrine, and not let things degenerate into ugly personal attacks.

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barrykind
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quote:
Carol states;


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
barrykind,

When you provoke people to anger in the real world, where do you run to tattle on them? The police you don't believe in?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carol that statement is offensive and abusive for a moderator..

It feels like you just wanted to take a stab at my heart...

Did not appreciate it either Sister..

[Frown]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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carol states:

quote:
WildB would never call Christ a liar. You know that, but in typical low self-esteem fashion, you will make a big deal out of someone's typing error to make him look bad and make yourself look good. You do such a thing on the Sabbath no less. You have too many typing errors yourself to carry this off barry.

You, in fact, are the one who wrote that walking in the Spirit means to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It was a typing mistake, that's all.

Yep thats right i did, when called to my attention i corrected it.

This that bill wrote was more than once, and he was told what he said, and he chose to ignore for some days..common carol judge righteously!

i dont mind being scrutinized, but when your "precious" doctrinal "apple cart" is turned upside down you flip back and forth...

Judge righteously by scripture Sister, and be fair to all.

You have deleted or had bill delete his posts before, if im not mistaken YOU deleted one of his posts...You have corrected him onhim calling names..right?

Be consistant....we wont always agree but i do not believe i have presented anything outside of scripture, and tho we disagree on many things, i have not, i say again, have NOT said anyone was going to hell, or that they are not saved for using Jesus name, or not believing in the Sabbath, or "Remembering" the sabbath..

i have not said nor believe because you, betty believe in OSAS [or anyone else], that yall are not saved...i consider yall "wrong" but part of the body of Christ.

i have it think proved my point abour the Berean Bible Society...they have "changed" the gospel to only include Pauls letters for the "church" today!

this is another gospel, not just a pre, mid, post, pantrib notion, or things as such...o the Berean Bible Society believes that the words of Yahushua [Jesus] are sound , but they believe therre not for the "church" of today, only Pauls; i say they blend.....all the Bible has purpose, meaning and given for doctrine , etc., etc., just like Paul said.....

[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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Carol states;

quote:
barrykind,

When you provoke people to anger in the real world, where do you run to tattle on them? The police you don't believe in?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Never said i did not believe in Police Carol, you and betty sure ASSUME a lot, and misquote alot....

i wont stand here and let some one post : Christ is a liar..not withou action....i ask Bill several times, he would not answer as useual, excvept with chide remarks and name calling..

Take up and stand by ugliness Carol and you will pay for it Sister...mock me if you like, i dont care....but no one will post "Christ is a liar" without rebuke!

[hug] [thumbsup2]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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The gloves are off Carol......
Read your bible


Bill acts arrogantly, and obnoxiously, and he does not combat with scripture, he combats, and debates, with name calling and an ugly disposition..


[hug] [edit] termanology...

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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barrykind,

When you provoke people to anger in the real world, where do you run to tattle on them? The police you don't believe in?

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Carol Swenson
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WildB deleted it. My guess is he meant to say,

"You're a liar. Christ is my witness, you worm."

(He affirmed this. I wish he would have left the affirmation public).

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Carol Swenson
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WildB would never call Christ a liar. You know that, but you will make a big deal out of someone's typing error to make him look bad and make yourself look good. You do such a thing on the Sabbath no less. You have too many typing errors yourself to carry this off barry.

You, in fact, are the one who wrote that walking in the Spirit means to fulfill the lusts of the flesh. It was a typing mistake, that's all.

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barrykind
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Carol states:

quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WildB:
Your a Liar Christ my whiteness worm.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...You need to fix this.

You two [betty and carol] chide with me, and let this [person] call Christ a liar, and ask him to fix it..

Did he ..NO

my evaluation of him stands!


i cannot believe David has not talked with him yet about those posts calling Christ a liar..
David [Knowhim] evidently has not seen the post....

ENOUGH SAID !


[wave3]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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Do not fear, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel; I will help you," declares the LORD, "and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel. (Isaiah 41:14)

Okay, I stand corrected. Are you going to help barry?

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Carol Swenson
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Am I willing to defend the truth of the Gospel?

This does not mean that we become evangelical detectives investigating every church and Sunday School class in town. But it does mean that we do not fear men when they deny the truths that have brought us eternal life in Christ. “Do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ” (Gal. 1:10).

Many people with whom we come in contact actually believe that people are saved by faith in Christ plus “doing good works … keeping the Ten Commandments … obeying the Sermon on the Mount,” and any number of other “religious plusses.“ We may not have the same apostolic authority that Paul exercised, but we do have the Word of God to proclaim; and it is our obligation to share the truth.

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Carol Swenson
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It sounds like you are unable to teach Grace by example.

quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Your a Liar.

If barrykind has told a lie, show us what it is.

quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
I see Berry thinks hes been commissioned to hand out awards again.LOL.

Sorry worm I got my,

A long time ago.


barrykind is a man made in the image of God. I don't think that calling him a worm will please our Father at all.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
 -

False whiteness-liar

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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wildb if your calling me a liar sir...

You have become a judge:


Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death


So bill your saying im a liar and by saying that you have become a judge and judge my soul to hell?


Father forgive bill for he knows not what he does.... [Prayer]

Calling me a liar i care not sir, except for your soul; but calling Christ a liar is unexceptable...


i rebuke you sir!

Repent from where you have fallen...
[Prayer] [Prayer] [Prayer]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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wildbill states:

quote:
WildB

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posted October 22, 2010 08:58 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your a Liar.

--------------------
That is all.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Is everyone a liar but you bill?

Is that what you think, to call Christ a liar sir you need to check your salvation....

No man speaking under the influence of the Holy Spirit can called Yahushua accursed!


1 Corinthians 12:3
Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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Your a Liar.

--------------------
That is all.....

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barrykind
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quote:
WildB

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Member # 2917

posted October 22, 2010 08:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your a Liar Christ my whiteness worm.

--------------------
That is all.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged


--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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wildb states:


quote:
Your a Liar Christ my whiteness worm.


Are you cursing Christ now wildbill?

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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wildb states:
quote:
I see Berry thinks hes been commissioned to hand out awards again.LOL.

Sorry worm I got my,


A long time ago.

And by the way if you pay taxes you are guilty of the murder of innocence.

So how does that work in your scam of keeping the big ten and not really doing it?

If you say that you confess it for remission so you will not go to HELL your deceiving yourself again.

Your not only a FALSE WHITENESS but also,

YOUR A LIAR.




--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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WildB
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I see Berry thinks hes been commissioned to hand out awards again.LOL.

Sorry worm I got my,

 -

A long time ago.

And by the way if you pay taxes you are guilty of the murder of innocence.

So how does that work in your scam of keeping the big ten and not really doing it?

If you say that you confess it for remission so you will not go to HELL your deceiving yourself again.

Your not only a FALSE WHITENESS but also,

YOUR A LIAR.

--------------------
That is all.....

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Betty Louise
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Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them

–adjective
1. most remote or outermost; farthest: the uttermost stars.
2. of the greatest or highest degree, quantity, etc.; greatest:

He is able to save us to the uttermost not partial salvation not salvation depending how great a life we live.

The prodigal son was still the man's son in the pig stye. He did not have fellowship with his father until he came home, but he was still the man's son. A Christian who has wandered off from God has not lost his salvation. He is out of fellowship from God but He is still God's son.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Yes i too believe in Eternal Security, as taught by Yahushua and YHWH's word..

And not as taught by the WOLF![edit sp.]

[hug]

Galatians 5:22 - 23 (NLT)

But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness , gentleness, and self-control.

The Believer’s Response

We know what Peter’s response was when he was challenged to live up to the truth of the Gospel: fear and failure. And we know what Paul’s response was when he saw the truth of the Gospel being diluted: courage and defense. But the important question today is: what is my response to the “truth of the Gospel”? Perhaps this is a good place to take inventory of ourselves before we proceed into the doctrinal chapters of this letter [Galatians]. Let me suggest some questions for each of us to answer.


Have I been saved by the grace of God?

The only Gospel that saves is the Gospel of the grace of God as revealed in Jesus Christ. Any other Gospel is a false gospel and is under a curse (Gal. 1:6-9). Am I trusting in myself for salvation—my morality, my good works, even my religion? If so, then I am not a Christian, for a true Christian is one who has trusted Christ alone. “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast” (Eph. 2:8-9).


Am I trying to mix Law and grace?

Law means I must do something to please God, while grace means that God has finished the work for me and all I need do is believe on Christ. Salvation is not by faith in Christ plus something: it is by faith in Christ alone. While church membership and religious activities are good in their place as expressions of faith in Christ, they can never be added to faith in Christ in order to secure eternal life. “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work” (Rom. 11:6).


Am I rejoicing in the fact that I am justified by faith in Christ?

It has often been said that “justified” means “just as if I’d never sinned” and this is correct. It brings great peace to the heart to know that one has a right standing before God (Rom. 5:1). Just think: the righteousness of Christ has been put to our account! God has not only declared that we are righteous in Christ, but He deals with us as though we had never sinned at all! We need never fear judgment because our sins have already been judged in Christ on the cross (Rom. 8:1).


Am I walking in the liberty of grace?

Liberty does not mean license; rather, it means the freedom in Christ to enjoy Him and to become what He has determined for us to become (Eph. 2:10). It is not only “freedom to do” but also “freedom not to do.” We are no longer in bondage to sin and the Law. As Paul will explain in the practical section of this letter (Gal. 5-6), we obey God because of love and not because of Law. Christians enjoy a wonderful liberty in Christ. Am I enjoying it?


Am I willing to defend the truth of the Gospel?

This does not mean that we become evangelical detectives investigating every church and Sunday School class in town. But it does mean that we do not fear men when they deny the truths that have brought us eternal life in Christ. “Do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ” (Gal. 1:10).

Many people with whom we come in contact actually believe that people are saved by faith in Christ plus “doing good works … keeping the Ten Commandments … obeying the Sermon on the Mount,” and any number of other “religious plusses.“ We may not have the same apostolic authority that Paul exercised, but we do have the Word of God to proclaim; and it is our obligation to share the truth.


Am I “walking uprightly according to the truth of the Gospel”?

The best way to defend the truth is to live the truth. My verbal defense of the Gospel will accomplish very little if my life contradicts what I say. Paul is going to explain to us how to live in liberty by the grace of God, and it is important that we obey what he says.

A new employee was instructed how to measure valve parts to make sure they were ready for the final assembly. But after a few hours, his foreman was receiving complaints that the parts he was approving were faulty. “What are you doing?” the foreman asked. “I showed you how to use that micrometer. You’re sending through parts that are oversize!”

The employee replied, “Oh, most of the parts I was measuring were too large, so I opened up the micrometer a bit.”

Changing the standards will never make for success, either in manufacturing or ministry. Paul maintained the standards of “the truth of the Gospel”—and so should we.

(Wiersbe)

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Carol Swenson
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barry and becauseHElives DO believe in eternal security.

Have we not emphasized abiding in Christ and walking in the Spirit? Have we not agreed that we must confess our sins to stay in fellowship with our Lord?

WildB, it seems that you and I are not persecuted for our beliefs. We are persecuted simply because we are us.

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barrykind
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Yes i too believe in Eternal Security, as taught by Yahushua and YHWH's word..

And not as taught by the WOLF![edit sp.]

[hug]

--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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barrykind
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Carol, Carol, Carol,

[BooHoo]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Carol Swenson
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The same night Jesus said that to His apostles, about the Vine and the branches and abiding, they all abandoned Him. But He did not abandon them for after His resurrection He appeared to them:

So when it was evening on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them, "Peace be with you." (John 20:19)

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becauseHElives
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quote:
For the record.......... I do believe in eternal security. Eternal Security to those who continue "looking unto" Jesus (the author and perfecter of our faith)......continuing to learn from Him and His word. With love in Christ, Daniel
[thumbsup2]

that's abiding....don't abide you wither and die!

you are only eternal in Yahshua....

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Carol Swenson
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We shall see what happens to the Gentile nations, and individuals, that are arrogant, dismissive and cruel to the Jews.

According to Bible prophecy, the professing Gentile church will be "cut off" because of apostasy. First Timothy 4 and 2 Timothy 3, along with 2 Thessalonians 2, all indicate that the professing church in the last days will depart from the faith. There is no hope for the apostate church, but there is hope for apostate Israel! Why? Because of the roots of the olive tree. God will keep His promises to the patriarchs, but God will break off the Gentiles because of their unbelief.

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oneinchrist
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Hello Carol,
Wiersbe states:
Paul warned the Gentiles that they were obligated to Israel, and therefore they dared not boast of their new spiritual position (Rom. 11:18-21).

Why dare not boast? Mr. Weirsbe? What could happen if Gentiles boast in the branches and continue not in the goodness of Jesus(the vine)?


With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Betty

 -

Blessed and secure in His love

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
For those of you which go by the standard of "The Berean Bilbe Society" [see another cult the berean bible society], Which states that the 4 Gospels, and much of the "New Testemant" was for the Jews and not for today...i can understand why you dont believe in "If you love me keep my commandments"

It is a perverted gospel, and does not take into account the teachings of Yahushua!

quote:
The OSAS doctrine as it is taught, esp. by the "wolves in sheeps clothing", such as Charles Stanley... I feel is the most horendous, devilish lie from hell ever perpetrated on the "church" ever!!!
I don't follow the Berean Bible Society, but that's too harsh a judgement. You make assumptions about their doctrine that aren't true.
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Carol Swenson
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becauseHElives

quote:
The Bible teaches the absolute eternal security of the believer, not the unbeliever.
That is exactly what we have been saying all along.

becauseHElives says "if." I say "because..."

We Enjoy the Father’s Love (John 14:19-24)

I say "because..."

“The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us” (Rom. 5:5).

Orphans feel unwanted and unloved, but our Father shares His love with us. Jesus explained a threefold manifestation of God’s love.


There was a past manifestation to the disciples (vv. 19-20).

John 14:19 focuses on His resurrection and post-resurrection appearances to His disciples and other believers. The last time the world saw Jesus was when Joseph and Nicodemus took Him from the cross and buried Him. The next time the world sees Him, He will come in power and great glory to judge lost sinners.

John 14:20 centers especially on the coming of the Spirit at Pentecost and the oneness of the believers with their Lord. Jesus returned to heaven as the exalted Head of the church (Eph. 1:19-23); then He sent the Spirit so that the members of the body would be joined to their Head in a living union. Believers today, of course, did not see Jesus after His resurrection or in His ascension, but we are united to Him by the indwelling Holy Spirit.


There is a present manifestation of Himself to believers (vv. 21, 23-24).

Note the repetition of the word love. When we treasure His Word and obey it, then the Father and the Son share Their love with us and make Their home in us. The word translated “abode” in John 14:23 means “make our home” and is related to “mansions” in John 14:2.

When the sinner trusts Christ, he is born again and the Spirit immediately enters his body and bears witness that he is a child of God. The Spirit is resident and will not depart. But as the believer yields to the Father, loves the Word, prays, and obeys, there is a deeper relationship with the Father, Son, and Spirit. Salvation means we are going to heaven, but submission means that heaven comes to us!

This truth is illustrated in the experiences of Abraham and Lot, recorded in Genesis 18 and 19. When Jesus and the two angels visited Abraham’s tent, they felt right at home. They even enjoyed a meal, and Jesus had a private talk with Abraham. But our Lord did not go to Sodom to visit Lot, because He did not feel at home there. Instead, He sent the two angels.

Our experience with God ought to go deeper and deeper, and it will as we yield to the Spirit of Truth and permit Him to teach us and guide us. When we love God and obey Him, He will manifest His love to us in a deeper way each day.


There will be a future manifestation when Jesus Christ returns (v. 19).

Judas (not Iscariot) recalled that Jesus had said He would not manifest Himself to the world (John 14:22). But this seemed to contradict other statements He had made, such as recorded in Matthew 24:30. His question was, “What has come to pass that You are no longer going to reveal Yourself to the world?” Has there been a change in the divine plan?

Jesus had been rejected by His own people, so He could not manifest Himself to them. In fact, it was an act of mercy that He did not manifest Himself to the world, because that would have meant judgment. He has revealed Himself to His church and left the church in the world to be a witness of God’s love. He is patiently waiting, still giving lost sinners opportunity to repent and be saved (2 Peter 3:1-10). One day He will return (Rev. 1:7) and the world will behold Him.

One of the best ways to ease a troubled heart is to bathe it in the love of God. When you feel like an “orphan,” let the Spirit of God reveal God’s love to you in a deeper way.

Charles Spurgeon said, “Little faith will take your soul to heaven, but great faith will bring heaven to your soul.” Your heart can become a “heaven on earth” as you commune with the Lord and worship Him.

(Wiersbe)

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Betty Louise
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Thank you, Carol.
Betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi again Carol,
You argue that it is not possible for one to fall away if they are born again.

Paul states that the(gentiles) are "grafted in" to the olive tree contrary to nature. Then he goes on to warn the branches(new gentile believers)not to become haughty(boasting in the branches), otherwise they could be cut off.

No one could be "grafted in" to the olive tree if they did not receive the Holy Spirit(born-again). How is it that Paul then shows us that gentiles could be cut off?

For the record..........
I do believe in eternal security.
Eternal Security to those who continue "looking unto" Jesus (the author and perfecter of our faith)......continuing to learn from Him and His word.

With love in Christ, Daniel

Betty is right.

The olive tree is a symbol of the nation of Israel (Jer. 11:16-17; Hosea 14:4-6). Please keep in mind that Paul was not discussing the relationship of individual believers to God, but the place of Israel in the plan of God. The roots of the tree support the tree; again, this was a symbol of the patriarchs who founded the nation. God made His covenants with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and He cannot deny them or change them. Thus, it is God’s promise to Abraham that sustains Israel even today.

Many of the Jewish people did not believe. Paul pictured them as branches broken off the tree. But he saw an amazing thing taking place: other branches were grafted into the tree to share in the life of the tree. These branches were the Gentiles. In Romans 11:24, Paul described this “grafting in” as “contrary to nature.” Usually a cultivated branch is grafted into a wild tree and shares its life without producing its poor fruit. But in this case, it was the “wild branch” (the Gentiles) that was grafted into the good tree! “Salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22).

To say that the olive tree, with its natural and grafted branches, is a picture of the church would be a great mistake. In the church, “there is no difference”; believers are “all one in Christ Jesus” (Gal. 3:28). God does not look on the members of Christ’s body and see them as Jews or Gentiles. The olive tree illustrates the relationship between Jew and Gentile in the program of God. The “breaking off of the branches” is the equivalent of “the fall” (Rom. 11:11), “the diminishing” (Rom. 11:12), and “the casting away” (Rom. 11:15). To read into this illustration the matter of the eternal destiny of the individual believer is to abuse the truth Paul was seeking to communicate.

Paul warned the Gentiles that they were obligated to Israel, and therefore they dared not boast of their new spiritual position (Rom. 11:18-21). The Gentiles entered into God’s plan because of faith, and not because of anything good they had done. Paul was discussing the Gentiles collectively, and not the individual experience of one believer or another.

(Wiersbe)

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Betty Louise
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no problem with the Sister. I was raised to call all the ladies in the Church Sister and the Men-Brother.


Just a side not. When I was a kid I wished my family were Catholic because I thought Nuns and Priest were so kind like in the movies. On the other hand my mom when she was little was scared of Nuns, because of their clothes.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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barrykind
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Betty states:

quote:
I think Paul was talking about the Gentiles as a whole not about a Christian losing their salvation.
betty


Not what scripture teaches sister..[i know your not a nun; i use that as respect to one who is in the body of Christ]

Just saying..
[hug]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Betty Louise
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I think Paul was talking about the Gentiles as a whole not about a Christian losing their salvation.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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oneinchrist
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Hi again Carol,
You argue that it is not possible for one to fall away if they are born again.

Paul states that the(gentiles) are "grafted in" to the olive tree contrary to nature. Then he goes on to warn the branches(new gentile believers)not to become haughty(boasting in the branches), otherwise they could be cut off.

No one could be "grafted in" to the olive tree if they did not receive the Holy Spirit(born-again). How is it that Paul then shows us that gentiles could be cut off?

For the record..........
I do believe in eternal security.
Eternal Security to those who continue "looking unto" Jesus (the author and perfecter of our faith)......continuing to learn from Him and His word.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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barrykind
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Betty states:

quote:
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,


Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Amen..i believe that;

Study those scriptures in light of the interpetation of the Good News of the Gospel; and you will find that one can walk away from the love of God which is in Christ [Yahushua] Jesus.

For those of you which go by the standard of "The Berean Bilbe Society" [see another cult the berean bible society], Which states that the 4 Gospels, and much of the "New Testemant" was for the Jews and not for today...i can understand why you dont believe in "If you love me keep my commandments"

It is a perverted gospel, and does not take into account the teachings of Yahushua!

By taking only a portion of Paul's teachings and by passing Peter, Yahushua, and most of acts, you will get a destorted veiw of scriptual teachings... A false grace...

Take the bible as a whole, old and new; they blend and merge into YHWH's purpose for us..

and when Yahushua states "It is finished" you will better understand what He meant.

[hug]

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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27

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Betty Louise
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Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,


Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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becauseHElives
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Betty ... "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life." John 5.39-40

this is all anyone of us can do...as we search the scriptures we must allow the Holy Spirit to give us understanding....the scripture are not of private interpretation.....

please don't just say becauseHElive your wrong, give me an explanation of why you disagree.

do you think Jesus understood the Gospel....

Jesus said if you don't understand the parable of the sower you can not understand any of His teaching....


And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables?

you say once someone believes they can not be lost...

but Jesus said...Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

The Bible teaches the absolute eternal security of the believer, not the unbeliever.

The Greek text of every salvation verse, John 3:16 and the rest, that promises salvation as a result of our belief places the verb for belief in the present tense, which in Greek includes the concept of continuing belief, not a one time act of faith. The facet of Greek grammar which displays this feature is called "aspect."

It IS possible to stop believing: Jesus said so in Luke 8:13,

Clearly, "which for a while believe" tells us that they believed only for a while; therefore, they stopped believing.

Don't tell me they never truly believed. Jesus said explicitly that they did believe—for a while.

The point is, those who lacked spiritual depth ("have no root"), or those whose faith was crowded out by the cares and riches and pleasures of this life, things which "choked the word," did not continue to believe, but stopped believing, and brought no fruit to perfection (Luke 8:14).

The practical application of this truth for evangelism, soul winning, and discipleship is obvious. We must follow the admonition of Hebrews 3:12, 13,

Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.



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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WildB
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Betty looks like someones kids needs to get knocked off their high horse's and into the dust of the earth. That they will ask Who are you Lord!

Then they need to get some prayer on straight street that the shingles will fall from their eyes.


VIVA LA PRE TRIB RAPTURE!

[rapture]

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That is all.....

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Betty Louise
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It is finished means nothing if you have not been saved. When God saves us, He gives us eternal life, not partial life until you sin.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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