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Author Topic: Am I filled with the Spirit?
crimson
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the difference in indwelling and baptizing is _example_
indwelling, a glass with water in it(as sitting on a nend table)
baptized, a glass with water in it and all around it(as in a sink)

when what one is indwelt with starts spring up inside and floods over.

the crimson

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yahsway
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Paul at Ephesus Acts 19

Acts 19:2 he said to them, "did you receive the Holy Spirit when you Believed?"

So they said to him, "We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."

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Carol Swenson
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I agree Bloodbought, but some teach that the baptism in the Holy Spirit is an empowering for service that takes place in the life of the Christian (Acts 1:5,8). In it we are immersed in the Spirit's life and power.

They call baptism in the Spirit what we call being filled with the Spirit.

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Bloodbought
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Being baptized by the spirit and being filled with the spirit are not the same.

The spirit baptized us into the body of Christ, that is, the spirit put us into Christ, thereby securing our salvation. When we are baptized into Christ it’s a done deal that is unalterable.

To be filled with the spirit is the spirit dwelling in our hearts, so that we are in Christ and He is in us to will and to do of His good pleasure as we submit to Him. We can have as much of the spirit as we want according to the measure of our faith. Much faith much power. Little faith little power.

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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
I know the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same. But I just wondered if baptism in the Spirit and filling of the Spirit meant the same to you. I'm glad we agree [Smile]

[clap2]

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Carol Swenson
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I know the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit are the same. But I just wondered if baptism in the Spirit and filling of the Spirit meant the same to you. I'm glad we agree [Smile]
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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Okay, then, since you can't just say yes or no...

quote:
You Shall recieve power:
The baptism in the Holy Ghost: Comes after salvation, you can't be filled with the Spirit if you dont have the Spirit of God.


Barry44 do you mean that baptism in the Holy Ghost is the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit? Because if that's what you mean then I would agree. I don't use the term "baptism" that way, but I've heard other people do.
Yes, it is the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Ghost and The Holy Spirit are the same. [Smile]

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Carol Swenson
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Okay, then, since you can't just say yes or no... you get all defensive about it...

quote:
You Shall recieve power:
The baptism in the Holy Ghost: Comes after salvation, you can't be filled with the Spirit if you dont have the Spirit of God.


Barry44 do you mean that baptism in the Holy Ghost is the same as being filled with the Holy Spirit? Because if that's what you mean then I would agree. I don't use the term "baptism" that way, but I've heard other people do.
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Barry44
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I'm not afraid of anything. [Smile] You mean to tell me after all that discussion, you dont know what i believe? I don't belong to a denomination, I belong to Christ. WildB never had to ask me what i believe, he knows what i believe from what i post, and i do him.

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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Barry44

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

quote:
You mean multi millions of people who have recieved and experienced it.
That didn't answer the question.
His own words say he does. Thats why I posted this.

The Unsearchable Riches of Christ

by Pastor J. C. O'Hair


SANCTIFYING TRUTH

Let us compare the words of the Lord Jesus, in John 17:17, with the statement of the Holy Spirit by the Apostle Paul, in II Thessalonians 2:13.

“SANCTIFY THEM THROUGH THY TRUTH: THY WORD IS TRUTH.” “BUT WE ARE BOUND TO GIVE THANKS ALWAY TO GOD FOR YOU, BRETHREN BELOVED OF THE LORD, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH.”

In the seventeenth chapter of John we read these words of the Lord Jesus concerning His disciples: “Thou hast given Him power over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given Him.” “While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy name; those that Thou gavest Me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.” John 17:2 and 12.

The Lord Jesus had given unto His disciples eternal life, and then had kept them. Now He was praying for them that they might be in the world but not of the world.

“I pray for them; I pray not for the world, but for them which Thou hast given Me; for they are Thine.” “I pray not that Thou shouldest take them out of the-world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.” John 17:9 and 15.

HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM

Some time after this prayer of the Lord Jesus, after He had died and come forth in His resurrection body, He said to these same disciples: “John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days hence.” Acts 1:5.

Note what John the Baptist said about four years before the death of Christ: “I indeed have baptized you with water; but He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit.” Mark 1:8.

Then note the statement of John 7:39—“The Holy Spirit was not yet given.” Again, “If I go not away, the Holy Spirit will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.” John 16:7.

While Christ was on earth no one experienced the baptism into the Body of Christ, mentioned in I Corinthians 12:13.

We may call the Lord’s earthly ministry “the days of the Son of man.” During those days the Son of man was under the law observing with the Jews their God-given religious ceremonies, carrying on their” law” program. The Scribes and Pharisees sat in Moses’ seat. Matthew 23:1 to 3. During those days the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent down from heaven. It was during those days, months before the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost, that the apostles were baptized with water unto repentance for the remission of sins. Note the testimony concerning John the Baptist: “And I knew Him not; but that He should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.” John 1:31. “And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.” Luke 3:3.

Concerning His own death and resurrection note what the Lord Jesus told His baptized disciples about two years after they were baptized with water: “And they shall scourge Him, and put Him to death; and the third day He shall rise again.” Luke 18:33.

Then note their reaction: “And they understood none of these things; and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken,” Luke 18:34.

In Luke 12:48 to 51 the Lord Jesus referred to His approaching death as His baptism. Years later the risen Lord revealed the truth of Romans 6:3 and 4: “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into His death? Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death; that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

The Divine baptism of Romans 6:3 and 4 is efficacious. It transforms the believer from a sinner to a saint; takes him out of Adam and puts him into Christ, a new creation, and identifies him with the Lord Jesus Christ in death, burial and resurrection.

Some Christians read two baptisms into Romans 6:3 to 6, and insist that the transformed believer should be immersed to witness to the world that he has died with Christ, been buried with Him, and raised to walk in newness of life. But this is a mere human supposition as there is not one verse of Scripture stating that water baptism is for a witness to unbelievers. In the light of plain Scriptural facts we must all admit that none of the twelve apostles received water baptism as a witness to the world that they were identified with Christ in His death and burial.

Then hear Paul’s testimony concerning his baptism: “And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.” Acts 22:16. This is in accord with Peter’s message, on the day of Pentecost

“THEN PETER SAID UNTO THEM, REPENT, AND BE BAPTIZED EVERY ONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS: AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.” Acts 2:38.

Here water baptism first, then Holy Spirit baptism.

And Peter’s command in Acts 2:38 is in agreement with the “baptism” message which John the Baptist had proclaimed about four years before Peter preached to devout Jews from every nation under heaven. Acts 2:5.

The Twelve received John’s baptism many months before they received the Holy Spirit; months before they knew that Christ would receive His death baptism and be buried. Luke 12:50 to 53.

If Christian water baptism began with the resurrection of Christ, the twelve apostles did not receive that baptism. They received Holy Spirit baptism.

HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM AND SANCTIFICATION

The Scriptural facts we have thus far presented are to refute the arguments of Christians who teach that we are justified and saved when we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, when we are baptized with water; but we are not sanctified until we are baptized with the Holy Spirit. Some call this a second work of grace.

They offer the experience of the twelve apostles, or that of the one hundred and twenty disciples in the upper room, on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came down from heaven, in support of their “sanctification” theory. They seem to forget that these disciples were saved in the days when the Son of man was under the law, before He died on the cross, while the Jewish priests were still offering their sacrifices on their altars with God’s approval, before the Holy Spirit was yet given.

They could not have received the Holy Spirit when they believed. Neither could the twelve men of Acts 19:1 to 7, have received the Holy Spirit when they believed. They, too, were baptized “unto John’s baptism”. Paul asked them, “Believing (pisteusantes) received ye the Holy Spirit?” Their answer was “No”. They had not believed the new message. They had not heard whether the Holy Spirit had yet been given.

Note the contrast in Ephesians 1:13 “Believing, (pisteusantes) ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit.” They received the Holy Spirit the very moment they believed the gospel. We of today were not saved before the Son of man died on the cross, but 1900 years later. We were never told to tarry in Jerusalem or in any other city to wait for the advent of the Holy Spirit. Note the question which Paul put to the foolish Galatians: “This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?” Galatians 3:2 and 3. Then in verses 13 and 14 we are told that Christ died on the cross that believers might receive the Holy Spirit.

ETERNAL LIFE—THE HOLY SPIRIT—SANCTIFICATION

Note the order in I Corinthians 6:11, “washed,” “sanctified” and “justified.”

Eternal life is God’s free gift to believing sinners. Romans 6:23. So also is the Holy Spirit. Romans 5:5. The believing sinner does not have to tarry for, or work for, or agonize for, or pray for, or ask for the gift of eternal life, or for the gift of the Holy Spirit in this day of grace. Neither does the believer receive eternal life or the Holy Spirit on the installment plan. The Holy Spirit is a Person. He has been sent down from heaven. I Peter 1:12. But He had not been sent down from heaven at the time the twelve apostles received John’s water baptism. Let us not be confused when we read in Acts 8:5 to 15, that the believers, in the city of Samaria received the Holy Spirit several days after they were baptized with water, and Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before he was baptized with water. Cornelius was the first Gentile to whom the Twelve preached. God gave him the Holy Spirit, so Peter would accept him and baptize him.

All of this transpired while Peter had the keys of the kingdom of heaven and the gospel of the circumcision. Galatians 7 and 8. This was before Paul declared the truth of Romans 10:12, I Timothy 2:4 and Romans 3:24.

“For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek; for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him.”

“Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.” “Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.” In connection with Paul’s grace message he said, “For Christ sent me not to baptize.” I Corinthians 1:17.

GOD OPENED THE DOOR

All Scripture must be interpreted, appropriated and applied as to whether the recorded event or spiritual program, under consideration, took place before or after the important fact stated in Acts 14:27

“AND WHEN THEY WERE COME, AND HAD GATHERED THE CHURCH TOGETHER, THEY REHEARSED ALL THAT GOD HAD DONE WITH THEM, AND HOW HE HAD OPENED THE DOOR OF FAITH UNTO THE GENTILES.”

And then we must see the changes in God’s program from Acts 14:27 to Ephesians 3:1 to 4:12.

All Divine truth must be studied in the light of developments, and God’s revealed spiritual program after the words of Paul in Acts 13:46, “Lo we turn to the Gentiles.” We do greatly err when we have the door of faith opened before God opens it. So let us mark the change of Acts 14:27.

SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST

Note carefully these plain statements:

“Wherefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered without the gate.” Hebrews 13:12.

“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” “For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” Hebrews 10:10 and 14.

“Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ; Grace unto you, and peace be multiplied.” I Peter 1:2.

How are believing sinners sanctified? By the blood of Christ, as that blood is applied by the Holy Spirit.

Now note I Corinthians 1:30: “But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, Who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.” Here, as in all Scriptures, “sanctification” is the same word elsewhere translated “holiness”. Which comes first, “sanctification” or “redemption”? Read it—“sanctification” and “redemption”.

Read I Corinthians 6:11—“And such were some of you; but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.” Why has the Holy Spirit here placed “sanctified” before “justified”? This is the answer to the unscriptural teaching that justification precedes sanctification.

Believers are sanctified once for all by the offering of the body of Christ on the cross. Hebrews 10:10. “Sanctified” or “holy”, both in the Hebrew and the Greek words, means “to be set apart by God or set apart for God.”

HOLY MEAT AND THINGS

Note I Timothy 4:3 and 5 begins with word “meats” in I Timothy 4:3. Here we learn that beef, mutton, or even pork can be sanctified or made holy by the Word of God and prayer. Pork could not have been holy meat for a Jew under the law. It was unholy. But we are not under the law.

Now note Revelation 11:8, that Jerusalem, the holy city, is called “the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Jerusalem is called “the holy city”. “Holy” does not mean “sinless”. Meat is neither sinful nor sinless, but it is holy by prayer and the Word of God.

In Colossians 2:16, we read that members of Christ’s Body have nothing to do with holy days. Israel had sanctified days and sanctified animals. Time and again the same Levites had to be re-sanctified for service in the Lord’s sanctuary. The sanctuary was the Lord’s appointed place for the service and worship of the priest. The sanctuary was “the holy place.”

“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of Divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.” Hebrews 9:1. “But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people.” Hebrews 9:7. “For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.” Hebrews 9:24. “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.” Hebrews 8:2.

Then note Ephesians 2:6 and 1:3 “And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.”

“BLESSED BE THE GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO HATH BLESSED US WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST.” Ephesians 1:3.

Every member of the Body of Christ is seated in the heavenlies with Christ. And how is he blessed 9

BLESSED WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS IN THE HEAVENLIES IN CHRIST

What folly for a member of the Body, seated in the heavenlies, complete in Christ (Colossians 2:10), blessed with ALL spiritual blessings, to look for a second blessing. Then note Ephesians 1:19 and 20.

“And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at His own right hand in the heavenly places.”

Think of such an one seeking more power!

RAISED TO WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE

“That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour; for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not; let not the sun go down upon your wrath; Neither give place to the devil.” Ephesians 4:22 to 27.

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth,” Colossians 3:1 and 2.

“And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created Him. Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Seythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any; even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.” Colossians 3:10 to 14.

GOD’S WAY OF VICTORY

“LIKEWISE RECKON YE ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED UNTO SIN, BUT ALIVE UNTO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.” “NEITHER YIELD YE YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO SIN; BUT YIELD YOURSELVES UNTO GOD, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS UNTO GOD.” Romans 6:11 and 13.

“And be not conformed to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” Romans 12:2.

Hear this important truth—“And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the Word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.” Acts 20:32.

God, our heavenly Father, calls His children unto “separation” and unto Christian service.

Note how the truth is stated in II Thessalonians 2:13 and I Thessalonians 1:9 and 10 “Chosen unto salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth.” “Turned to God from idols to serve the living and the true God and to wait for His Son from heaven.”

But what about I Thessalonians 5:23—II Corinthians 7:1 and Hebrews 12:14? “And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”

We have already learned that Jesus Christ is the believer’s holiness. The man who has Christ has holiness and is holy. Now note II Corinthians 1:21-22. “Now He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.”

“Christ” is, in the Greek, “the Anointed”. When the believer receives the anointing He abides with him (I John 2:26 to 28), for he is sealed with the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:30.

A Christian is a “Christ one”. He is a Christian by grace through faith; not of himself, not of works. Ephesians 2:8 What is the evidence? “The sealing of the Holy Spirit”, “the earnest of the Spirit in the heart”. Every Christian has the Holy Spirit in his heart. He receives the Holy Spirit the very moment he becomes a Christian by believing the gospel of salvation, and receiving Christ. No matter how religious, moral or sincere a person may be, he is not a Christian if he is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

Now note Ephesians 1:14.

“Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.”

What kind of a body does the believer have? “For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.” This word “perish” is literally “rot thoroughly”. The body of the believer is called “the body of humiliation”. Philippians 3:21. When Christ shall appear, the purchased possession will be redeemed; then the believer will have a glorified body. In the meantime “if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” I John 1:8.

II THESSALONIANS 2:13
“BUT WE ARE BOUND TO GIVE THANKS ALWAY TO GOD FOR YOU, BRETHREN BELOVED OF THE LORD, BECAUSE GOD HATH FROM THE BEGINNING CHOSEN YOU TO SALVATION THROUGH SANCTIFICATION OF THE SPIRIT AND BELIEF OF THE TRUTH.”

Read this—Study it—Believe it. Salvation is the result of sanctification and belief. Sanctification first, and salvation the result.

There are several physical laws that must be observed and obeyed if man would develop physically.

1—Good air.

2—Good food.

3—Good water.

4—Proper exercise.

5—Proper rest.

There are several spiritual laws that must be observed and obeyed if man would develop spiritually.

1—The worship of God.

2—Regular Bible study.

3—Regular and constant prayer.

4—Assembling with God’s people.

5—Testimony and service for the Lord.

With all of this there must be obedience to II Timothy 2:15 and 1:7—”Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of truth.” “For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.”

In closing, we quote Colossians 1:9 and 10 and Philippians 1:10 and 11.

“For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding: That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God.” “That ye may approve things that are excellent: that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ; Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.”

There is no short cut to a spiritual separated life.

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That is all.....

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
Originally posted by Barry44:
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Barry44

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

quote:
You mean multi millions of people who have recieved and experienced it.
That didn't answer the question.
I believe what the word says. [Smile]
Are you afraid to answer the question?
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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Barry44

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

quote:
You mean multi millions of people who have recieved and experienced it.
That didn't answer the question.
I believe what the word says. [Smile]

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Barry44
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quote:
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (I Cor. 6:19,20).

Good verse Carol, if it was not for what Jesus had done for us. The rest would be pointless. [thumbsup2]

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Carol Swenson
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Barry44

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

quote:
You mean multi millions of people who have recieved and experienced it.
That didn't answer the question.
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Barry44
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quote:
During this present dispensation God is doing a thing never once mentioned in Old Testament prophecy: forming a body of believers composed of Jews and Gentiles, reconciled to Himself by the Cross (Eph. 2:16). This body is called "the body of Christ," since its members are eternally and inseparably united to Christ by one divine baptism. This baptism, in turn, is something altogether separate and distinct from the baptism with the Spirit at Pentecost, and has superseded it. This is evident from the following facts:


I agree with alot of that but it was mentioned in the Old Testament.

Peter Preaches to the Crowd
Acts 2

14 Then Peter stepped forward with the eleven other apostles and shouted to the crowd, "Listen carefully, all of you, fellow Jews and residents of Jerusalem! Make no mistake about this. 15 These people are not drunk, as some of you are assuming. Nine o'clock in the morning is much too early for that. 16 No, what you see was predicted long ago by the prophet Joel:


Joel:Old Testament
17 'In the last days,' God says, 'I will pour out my Spirit upon all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy. Your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams.' 18 In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on my servants—men and women alike—
and they will prophesy.
19 And I will cause wonders in the heavens above
and signs on the earth below—
blood and fire and clouds of smoke.
20 The sun will become dark,
and the moon will turn blood red
before that great and glorious day of the LORD arrives.
21 But everyone who calls on the name of the LORD
will be saved.
.................................................

I agree, There is only one baptism into the body of Christ. There is also baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Ghost

quote:
This baptism, in turn, is something altogether separate and distinct from the baptism with the Spirit at Pentecost, and has superseded it. This is evident from the following facts:

Born of the Spirit:
I agree, it is separate and distinct but it did not superseded. Salvation Comes first: being baptised into the body of Christ. you are Christians, Saved, believers.

You Shall recieve power:
The baptism in the Holy Ghost: Comes after salvation, you can't be filled with the Spirit if you dont have the Spirit of God.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:38

1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability. Acts 2


Born of the Spirit:
John 20
22 Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

Baptism in the Holy Ghost: These born again believers were filled with the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2
1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.


Act 2:39
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

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Carol Swenson
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Barry44

If they had already received the Holy Spirit, how could they receive Him again on Pentecost? They may have been empowered in the way the Old Testament saints were temporarily, but they would not have been so fearful at the crucifixion and afterwards if they were indwelt by Him.

quote:
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (I Cor. 6:19,20).

This passage perhaps describes our relationship to the Holy Spirit better than any other. God, by His Spirit, dwells within us, and our bodies are meant to be shrines, temples, where He is worshipped. In the measure that He is given His rightful place and is truly worshipped within—in the measure that our bodies are given over to His glory—in that measure sin will be overcome, God exalted, and we blessed. True, the world, the flesh and the devil all clamor for a place too, but we should thank God for the testings that arise from this. We praise God for the privilege of toiling, suffering and sacrificing for Him now, since that privilege will forever be gone when we are caught up to be with Him. Let us then also praise Him for the temptations that daily beset us, for each temptation overcome will gain for us a rich reward.


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THE SPIRIT'S OPERATION AT PENTECOST

Concerning the one hundred twenty believers gathered in the upper room at Pentecost, we read:

"And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:4, R.V.).

This, of course, is another way of saying that the Holy Spirit took complete possession of them.1 Those who have come to appreciate the meaning of the Bible word baptism, will see at once the connection with the Lord's promise that His own should be baptized with the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:5). Indeed, they were "filled" with the Spirit (Acts 2:4) in fulfillment of the promise that they should be "baptized" with the Spirit.

And the result of this baptism, this filling, with the Spirit, was not only that they possessed miraculous powers, but also that they lived the kind of lives which God's people prior to that time had failed to live, and this is the particular matter with which we are here concerned.

Mark well: in Acts 2:4 we do not have an exhortation to be filled with the Spirit, as we have later in the Pauline epistles. Rather, we have a simple statement of fact: "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit."

The one hundred twenty had, of course, been much like any other group of believers in history. They had not all been equally spiritual or devoted or faithful. Some had been more so than others, and where some had excelled in one virtue, others had excelled in another. Yet now they were all FILLED with the Spirit, from the least to the greatest of them.

The thoughtful student of Scripture will, of course, ask why all these believers were now filled with the Holy Spirit. Was it, perhaps, because they, as a group, had been more godly than those before them? The gospel records prove that this is not so. Peter boasted, Thomas doubted, James and John sought personal gain, and when our Lord was taken prisoner, "they all forsook Him and fled." Was it then because they had prayed long enough or earnestly enough for the Spirit to come upon them and take control? No; they had been instructed to go to Jerusalem, not to pray for the Holy Spirit to come, as some suppose, but to "wait for the [fulfillment of the] promise" regarding the Spirit (Acts 1:4,5)—and right here is the answer to our question. The believers at Pentecost were filled with the Holy Spirit, not because they had prayed long or earnestly enough for the Spirit to come, but because the time had arrived for the fulfillment2 of the divine promise. The Old Testament prophets and the Lord Jesus had promised that the Holy Spirit should some day come to take control of God's people, and that day had come. They were filled with the Spirit because God, according to His promise, had baptized them with the Spirit.

THE SPIRIT'S OPERATION TODAY

The Apostle Paul never anywhere says that all the members of the Body of Christ are filled with the Holy Spirit. It is surely clear from the record that the Corinthians and the Galatians, for example, were not filled with the Spirit, for Paul's letters to these churches contain much of rebuke and correction. And it is also evident that believers today are not—even the best of them—wholly filled with the Spirit. The filling with the Spirit is now a goal, an attainment, which the apostle, by inspiration, sets before us. We are not all filled with the Spirit as a matter of fact, as were the Pentecostal believers. While the Spirit does indeed dwell within us by God's grace, we must daily appropriate His help and blessing by faith.

Hence the apostle now exhorts believers: "Be filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18) just as he exhorts them and prays for them, that they may be "filled with the fruits of righteousness" (Phil. 1:11); "filled with the knowledge of His will" (Col. 1:9); "filled with all the fulness of God" (Eph. 3:19).

But why are not we automatically filled with the Spirit as the believers were at Pentecost? We will proceed to answer this question, but let the reader not fail to first recognize the fact that while the believers gathered in the upper room at Pentecost were all filled with the Spirit, the believers under Paul, since that time, have not all been filled with the Spirit. Moreover, while it is distinctly stated, again and again, that the Pentecostal believers were, or were to be, baptized with the Spirit, not once does Paul in his epistles teach that members of the Body of Christ are baptized with the Spirit.3 Instead he exhorts them to appropriate God's grace by faith so that they may be filled with the Spirit.

THE HOLY SPIRIT AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR

The prophesied work of the Holy Spirit in connection with His people Israel should be clearly understood if we would understand His work today, in connection with the members of the Body of Christ. In Joel 2:28,29 God promised to supernaturally cause them to prophesy, etc., but in Ezekiel 36:26,27, He also promised to supernaturally cause them to do His will:

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

"And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Thus God would show that the only way in which even His own people can perfectly obey Him is when He takes possession of them and causes them to do His will. Indeed He is still demonstrating this. Though we today have all the advantages and blessings of the dispensation of Grace, and though we desire most earnestly to obey and serve God as we ought, we still continually fall short. This is because, contrary to popular opinion, none of us has been baptized with the Spirit.

THE CONDUCT OF THE BELIEVERS AT PENTECOST

At Pentecost the time had come, so far as prophecy was concerned, for the fulfillment of the promise concerning the Holy Spirit. "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come...they were all filled with the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:1,4).

We must be careful to notice the immediate change that took place in the behavior of these believers, now that the Holy Spirit had come to take possession of them. Not only did they speak with tongues and prophesy and work miracles, but they all began living for one another.

"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

"And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need" (Acts 2:44,45).

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul; neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common."

"Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

"And laid them down at the apostles' feet; and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need" (Acts 4:32,34,35).

Never before had the disciples of Christ even approached such a spirit of utter selflessness and love for one another. In spite of the Ten Commandments, the Sermon on the Mount and our Lord's repeated exhortations to sell and distribute their earthly goods and live for one another, they—even the twelve—had heretofore been fully as human and selfish as those who had gone before them.

One day James and John came to ask a special favor of Christ: that they might occupy the first places in the kingdom, sitting, the one at Christ's right hand and the other at His left! (Mark 10:37). Modest fellows! And the other ten were really no different at heart, for we read: "When the ten heard it, they began to be much displeased with James and John" (Ver. 41). We can almost hear them exclaim to each other: "Who do James and John think they are!" Nor was this the first time the apostles had "disputed among themselves who should be the greatest" (Mark 9:34).

But now, suddenly, all this was changed! Now each one put self aside and placed others first. And, as Jeremiah had predicted, this came from the heart. Mark well, it was of a multitude numbering more than five thousand (Acts 4:4) that we read that they were all of one heart and of one soul, and sold their lands and houses and brought the proceeds to the apostles for distribution among the needy. Imagine the freedom and joy and blessedness that must have prevailed among the disciples under these conditions! These were indeed "the days of heaven upon earth"!

God's children in this present dispensation—the so-called Pentecostalists included—have never lived together as the believers at Pentecost did. Imagine even suggesting having all things common among believers today! Those who cry "Back to Pentecost" would not, we fear, be the first to step up and hand over their hard-earned investments as Barnabas and all the believing property owners did at Pentecost. Indeed, it would be wrong if we did this today, for the Spirit's instruction for this present evil age is:

"If any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel" (I Tim. 5:8).

PENTECOST RELATED TO THE KINGDOM, NOT TO THE BODY

Pentecost was an earnest of the kingdom reign of Christ, when peace and prosperity will prevail on earth and men will not need to lay up store for the future. But as Israel stubbornly rejected the King and His kingdom and judgment seemed imminent, God graciously intervened and ushered in the dispensation of Grace, under which we now live.

During this present dispensation God is doing a thing never once mentioned in Old Testament prophecy: forming a body of believers composed of Jews and Gentiles, reconciled to Himself by the Cross (Eph. 2:16). This body is called "the body of Christ," since its members are eternally and inseparably united to Christ by one divine baptism. This baptism, in turn, is something altogether separate and distinct from the baptism with the Spirit at Pentecost, and has superseded it. This is evident from the following facts:

At Pentecost the Lord Jesus Christ was the Baptizer, and He baptized the believers with, or in, the Holy Spirit.

Matt. 3:11: "He [Christ] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost..." (cf. Luke 3:16).

John 15:26: "The Comforter...whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth...shall testify of me."

John 16:7: "If I depart, I will send Him unto you."

Today, under the dispensation of Grace, however, the Holy Spirit is the Baptizer, baptizing believers into Christ and His Body.

I Cor. 12:13: "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...."

Gal. 3:27,28: "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

To those who would trace the Body of Christ back to Pentecost, we ask: Where in early Acts do we read of the Holy Spirit baptizing Jews and Gentiles into one joint body, the Body of Christ? Until Cornelius, the disciples preached the Word "to none but unto the Jews only" (Acts 11:19) and surely the reconciliation of Jews and Gentiles to God in one body could not be preached until the Jews as well as the Gentiles had been alienated from God. This is why we read of "the casting away of them [Israel]" in connection with "the reconciling of the world" (Rom. 11:15).

"For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Rom. 11:32).

Certainly God had not yet cast Israel away or concluded her in unbelief at Pentecost, for at Pentecost, and for some time thereafter, God still dealt with Israel as a nation, pleading with her to repent, so that her Messiah might return and bring the long-promised times of refreshing (Acts 3:19-21).

To those, on the other hand, who would bring Pentecost into the present dispensation, we ask: Where is the Scriptural warrant for the continuance of a Pentecostal experience in this dispensation? It is clear from Acts and from Paul's epistles that the Pentecostal program has been suspended because of the rejection of Christ and His kingdom. Certainly the gifts of prophecy, tongues and (supernatural) knowledge have passed away (I Cor. 13:8). And so with the gifts of healing (Rom. 8:22,23; II Cor. 4:16-5:4; I Tim. 5:23; II Tim. 4:20, etc.). Paul himself, who had been saved during the Pentecostal era and had possessed miraculous powers at least as great as those of the twelve, writes concerning his own illness:

"For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

"And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness..." (II Cor. 12:8,9).

And as to Pentecostal conduct in this dispensation: where, even among the "Pentecostalists," do we find it? The early chapters of Acts record neither sin nor blunder in the lives of the believers at Pentecost,4 but there is plenty of both, not only among the "Pentecostalists" as a group, but in each individual "Pentecostalist." And as to selling all and living for one another, many of their leaders are rich and increased in goods while those under them suffer need, both rich and poor bearing witness that the Pentecostal program has broken down and passed away. Indeed, it passed away during Paul's lifetime, for whereas in Acts 4:34 we read: "Neither was there any among them that lacked," we later find Paul taking up collections for "the poor saints at Jerusalem" (Rom. 15:26). This is because the King and His kingdom were refused, but "where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" (Rom. 5:20) and today we enjoy even greater blessings, the blessings of "the dispensation of the grace of God" (Eph. 3:2). The Pentecostal believers lived pleasing to God because the Spirit took control of them. For us there are moral and spiritual victories to be gained, as we appropriate by faith what God provides by grace.

THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE BELIEVER TODAY

Grace and faith are the characteristic features of the present dispensation. Not only is salvation now declared to be by grace, through faith, but the Spirit also operates in the believer by grace, through faith. He does not take possession of us and cause us to do what is right, but dwells within each believer (I Cor. 6:19) to provide needed guidance and the strength to withstand temptation, and we may avail ourselves of this provision by faith.

We have already seen how the Spirit, who first imparted life to us will also impart strength to withstand temptation and overcome sin. In our inability to even pray as we ought, "the Spirit...helpeth our infirmities" and "maketh intercession for us" (Rom. 8:26). In our weakness we are "strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man" (Eph. 3:16) and God even stoops to "quicken [our] mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in us" (Rom. 8:11).

"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh" (Rom. 8:12).

The implication from the above passage is that though sorely tempted we are debtors to the Spirit who dwells within and provides overcoming power.

The question, in times of temptation, is generally whether we truly desire to overcome, for we may overcome in any given case by grace, through faith. In the present dispensation it is not true that it is not possible for the believer to sin, but it is blessedly true that in any situation it is possible for him not to sin, for the Spirit is always there to help.

If we go to the Scriptures and claim, by faith, the Spirit's help in overcoming our sins, we enter into the enjoyment of the fulness of spiritual life and blessing. If we fail to do so, we wither and die—as far as our spiritual experience is concerned. We can never lose our salvation, of course, for "everlasting life" was obtained by faith in Christ, not by walking in the Spirit. This is confirmed by the fact that the same apostle who pleads: "Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God," hastens to add: "whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption" (Eph. 4:30).

But failure to appropriate God's gracious provision for victory over sin does result in death as far as our Christian experience is concerned. This is what the apostle means, when he says, by the Spirit:

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace" (Rom. 8:6).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify [put to death] the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Rom. 8:13).

To the careless Corinthians, the Apostle Paul exclaimed:

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's" (I Cor. 6:19,20).

This passage perhaps describes our relationship to the Holy Spirit better than any other. God, by His Spirit, dwells within us, and our bodies are meant to be shrines, temples, where He is worshipped. In the measure that He is given His rightful place and is truly worshipped within—in the measure that our bodies are given over to His glory—in that measure sin will be overcome, God exalted, and we blessed. True, the world, the flesh and the devil all clamor for a place too, but we should thank God for the testings that arise from this. We praise God for the privilege of toiling, suffering and sacrificing for Him now, since that privilege will forever be gone when we are caught up to be with Him. Let us then also praise Him for the temptations that daily beset us, for each temptation overcome will gain for us a rich reward.

God does not—He cannot—say of us: "They were all filled with the Holy Spirit," but He does set before us the glorious objective: "Be filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18). And as we seek, by faith, to realize this objective, rich, deep blessings are already ours, to say nothing of the rewards to come. What a challenge to faith!

It was no particular victory for the Pentecostal believers to be filled with the Spirit, for the Spirit simply took possession of them according to His own sovereign will and promise. But great spiritual victories are ours as we, through the Spirit, mortify the deeds of the flesh in order that our bodies may be the temples of God indeed. May God grant us many such victories as we take Him at His Word!

"Grieve not the Holy Spirit" (Eph. 4:30).

"Walk in the Spirit" (Gal. 5:16).

"Be filled with the Spirit" (Eph. 5:18).


Endnotes

1. Much as whatever takes possession of the mind is said to fill it.

2. Some look upon Pentecost merely as a foreshadowing of the promised Millennial blessing. We believe it was the beginning of the fulfillment of the promise, but that the complete fulfillment was interrupted by the dispensation of Grace. Note: "This is that..." (Acts 2:16).

3. Not even in I Corinthians 12:13.

4. Ananias and Sapphira tried to join the company by deceit, but were stricken dead.

http://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/articles/1134064776.html

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Barry44
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quote:
So what was the greater miracle the hearing or the speaking?

The greater miracle was recieving Gods promise. They were already born again, they believed and obeyed what God said. Sinner people were not going to believe and obey God.

"Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift he promised, as I told you before. 5 John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
People need to read the bible for themselves to discover the truth and not just quote a pastor or a denominations belief.
People who say that almost always mean, "Don't listen to them. Listen to me instead."

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

The baptism of the Spirit is that act of the Spirit when He places the believing sinner into the body of Christ at conversion (1 Cor. 12:13).

This is not an experience after conversion, nor is it an experience the believer should pray for or seek after.

We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18), but we are never commanded to be baptized with the Spirit, for we have already been baptized by the Spirit at conversion.

.................................................

quote:

People who say that almost always mean, "Don't listen to them. Listen to me instead."
[/QUOTE]

I quoted what Jesus said in the scripture. I said read the scripture for youself.

quote:
It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

You mean multi millions of people who have recieved and experienced it.

Acts 2
1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability

quote:
The baptism of the Spirit is that act of the Spirit when He places the believing sinner into the body of Christ at conversion
At Salvation: 1. Baptizer: The Holy Ghost, 2. object: Us, 3. into the body of Christ

But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit.
.................................................

quote:
We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18), but we are never commanded to be baptized with the Spirit, for we have already been baptized by the Spirit at conversion.
Baptism in The Holy Ghost: 1. Baptizer: Jesus, 2. object: Us, 3. into The Holy Ghost

Acts 1:5
but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

.................................................

quote:
This is not an experience after conversion, nor is it an experience the believer should pray for or seek after.
John 16:12
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

1 Corinthians 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able.

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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
quote:
I believe the diciples recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them and were baptised in the Holy Spirit at pentecost.


They did not receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them.

Acts 1:4 - 9 (NASB) 4Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you ; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

.................................................

Let the word correct you:

quote:
They did not receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them.
Salvation: John 20
22 Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.


quote:
Acts 1:4 - 9 (NASB) 4Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you ; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

filled with the Holy Spirit
Acts 2
1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.

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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
Bloodbought [thumbsup2]

NEXT!


[rapture] [rapture] [rapture]

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Bloodbought [thumbsup2]
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quote:
OK, someone will say, there is only one baptism.
See here baptisms: Hebrews 6

1 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds [1] and placing our faith in God. 2 You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

The baptism’s mentioned in Hebrews 6 were ceremonial cleansings.

There is only one baptism of the spirit.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism ,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit.

Luke 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Stephen is an example of one being Christ like and full of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 6:2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

When Stephen was being stoned to death he had the same requests as Jesus did when He was on the cross.

Acts 7:59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit .
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge . And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

We are full of the Holy Spirit when we are full of faith in God and not depending on any other resource.
And as Carol said, when He gets more of us.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
People need to read the bible for themselves to discover the truth and not just quote a pastor or a denominations belief.
Yes they need to read the Bible. But people who say to not listen to others almost always mean, "Don't listen to them. Listen to me instead."

It sounds like you belong to a denomination that believes in a second blessing after conversion?

The baptism of the Spirit is that act of the Spirit when He places the believing sinner into the body of Christ at conversion (1 Cor. 12:13).

This is not an experience after conversion, nor is it an experience the believer should pray for or seek after.

We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit (Eph. 5:18), but we are never commanded to be baptized with the Spirit, for we have already been baptized by the Spirit at conversion.

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Carol Swenson
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quote:
I believe the diciples recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them and were baptised in the Holy Spirit at pentecost.


They did not receive the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them.

Acts 1:4 - 9 (NASB) 4Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which,” He said, “you heard of from Me; 5for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

6So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, “Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?” 7He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; 8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you ; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”

9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.

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Barry44
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

To be filled with the Spirit does not mean we get more of Him as if He were a substance and we were a vessel.

To be filled with the Spirit means that He gets more of us. We submit ourselves to Him.

.................................................

People need to read the bible for themselves to discover the truth and not just quote a pastor or a denominations belief. [Smile]

We do get more of Him:
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. John 14:23

He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. John 7:38

1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability. Acts 2


We are vessels:
"That everyone of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God." I Thessalonians 4:4 & 5

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. Acts 9:15

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Barry44
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All born again christians recieve the Holy Spirit at salvation. The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are the same Spirit.

Born again: John 20
22 Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.

But theres more: The baptism in the Holy Ghost.

Acts ch1
The Promise of the Holy Spirit
1 In my first book I told you, Theophilus, about everything Jesus began to do and teach 2 until the day he was taken up to heaven after giving his chosen apostles further instructions through the Holy Spirit. 3 During the forty days after his crucifixion, he appeared to the apostles from time to time, and he proved to them in many ways that he was actually alive. And he talked to them about the Kingdom of God.
4 Once when he was eating with them, he commanded them, "Do not leave Jerusalem until the Father sends you the gift he promised, as I told you before. 5 John baptized with water, but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

The Jews: Acts 2
1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place. 2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting. 3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them. 4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.

Acts ch 8
14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that the people of Samaria had accepted God's message, they sent Peter and John there. 15 As soon as they arrived, they prayed for these new believers to receive the Holy Spirit. 16 The Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them, for they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John laid their hands upon these believers, and they received the Holy Spirit.

The Gentiles: Acts CH. 19
1 While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions until he reached Ephesus, on the coast, where he found several believers. 2 "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" he asked them.
"No," they replied, "we haven't even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."
3 "Then what baptism did you experience?" he asked. And they replied, "The baptism of John."
4 Paul said, "John's baptism called for repentance from sin. But John himself told the people to believe in the one who would come later, meaning Jesus."
5 As soon as they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 Then when Paul laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them.

I believe the diciples recieved the Holy Spirit when Jesus breathed on them and were baptised in the Holy Spirit at pentecost. [Smile]

John 3:5-6
"I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world at large cannot receive him, because it isn't looking for him and doesn't recognize him. But you do, because he lives with you now and later will be in you.

John 16:13-15
"When the Holy Spirit has come upon you, you will receive power and will tell people about me everywhere -- in Jerusalem, throughout Judea, in Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

In a Baptism there are three elements.
.................................................

Salvation: 1. Baptizer: The Holy Ghost, 2. object: Us, 3. into the body of Christ

But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit.
.................................................

Water Baptism: 1. Baptizer: Preacher, 2. object: Us, 3. into the Water

Matthew 28:19 baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

.................................................

Baptism in The Holy Ghost: 1. Baptizer: Jesus, 2. object: Us, 3. into The Holy Ghost

Acts 1:5
but in just a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

.................................................

OK, someone will say, there is only one baptism.
See here baptisms: Hebrews 6

1 So let us stop going over the basic teachings about Christ again and again. Let us go on instead and become mature in our understanding. Surely we don't need to start again with the fundamental importance of repenting from evil deeds [1] and placing our faith in God. 2 You don't need further instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.

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oneinchrist
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Johnz said:
Which poses the question. Am i filled with the spirit?

John, the only person that can answer that question is you and God.....for the scriptures state that the spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.

While we may see some patterns(with the Holy Spirit) in the book of Acts, we cannot expect that the Holy Spirit is going to be predictable in our lives.

Something that is common for all of us.....is that.........if we are genuinely converted to Jesus we can expect that the Holy Spirit is going to Help us accomplish Gods will in our lives.

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Carol Swenson
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Yes, I agree. We become indwelt by the Spirit when we are born again. We are filled by the Spirit over and over as we submit to Him. This is something we are supposed to do everyday.

It's like saying we are filled with Joy, or filled with Love. It's that kind of filling.

Galatians 5:22 - 23 (NLT)
22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control.

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johnz
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quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

To be filled with the Spirit does not mean we get more of Him as if He were a substance and we were a vessel.

To be filled with the Spirit means that He gets more of us. We submit ourselves to Him.

Based on these scripture's would you agree that there are 2 experiences?

The book of Acts shows that people are filled with the spirit over and over again. it is a continual process of being filled
Eph 5:18 Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Paul compares being filled with the spirit to getting drunk. One sip isn't going to do it. It drinking over and over and over again. The same with being filled with the Spirit. We should continually seek it

In Christ,
johnz

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God is not counting your sins against you and your sins can't send you to Hell.(2 Cor 5:19) Only one thing can...

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Carol Swenson
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The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ.

To be filled with the Spirit does not mean we get more of Him as if He were a substance and we were a vessel.

To be filled with the Spirit means that He gets more of us. We submit ourselves to Him.

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johnz
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1 Cor. 12:13
"For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit"

We read how the Holy Spirit Baptizes is into the Body of Christ at the New Berth

Matthew 3:11
"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Here we read that Jesus is the one doing the baptizing, not the Holy Spirit like in 1 Cor. Here Jesus is baptizing someone into the Spirit.

This would lead one to believe that there are 2 experiences. 1) the New berth and 2) The Baptism in the Spirit / being filled with the Spirit.

This idea is further when Paul established when the Apostle Paul was traveling through the upper regions of Ephesus and came a cross some disciples In Acts 19:
And finding some disciples 2 he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” So they said to him, “We have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.

1st we read that these men are disciples, they are Christians. Then Paul asks if they had received the Holy Spirit when they believed. He acknowledged them as believers, but he also acknowledged that there is something more for believers to receive beyond salvation. They reply that they have never even heard of the Holy Spirit.

When we become believers we don't receive all that God has for us. We are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. After that there is something more. There is being filled with the Spirit / baptized in the spirit. Jesus himself does this to believers.

Which poses the question. Am i filled with the spirit?

johnz

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God is not counting your sins against you and your sins can't send you to Hell.(2 Cor 5:19) Only one thing can...

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