|
Author
|
Topic: False teaching of the Pre-trib rapture revealed
|
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
The Second Coming Of Christ
by Chas. F. Baker
When will it take place? Will we be here when it happens? Will there be signs or indications of its nearness? How will it affect the Church? What will happen to Israel? How about the other nations? These and many other such questions which might be asked can be rightly answered only insofar as a clear distinction is maintained between two great future events which are both concerned with the Second Coming of Christ. The purpose of this article, therefore, will not be merely to talk about the Second Coming, about which most Fundamentalists have a general knowledge, but to set forth clearly and concisely the distinctions (between Christ’s coming for His Body which is the Church, and His coming back to earth to establish the Millennial Kingdom. After this has been done it will be seen why there is so much confusion and fantastic teaching abroad today upon this subject.
The first prophecy spoken by man was: “Behold the Lord cometh with ten thousand of his saints” (Jude 1:14, 15). The last message of the Bible is: “Surely I come quickly” (Revelation 22:20). Between the two covers of the Bible it will be found that this doctrine occupies a larger part of the text than any other, and that it is the major burden of prophecy. It is the clear teaching of prophecy that Jesus Christ will return to this earth personally, just as literally as He left this earth (Zechariah 14:4; Acts 1:11; Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:30; Matthew 25:31; Revelation 19:11 to 16). It is equally clear that this second advent will be immediately after the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:29), and immediately prior to the establishment of the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 19:20). This second advent is the subject of all of the Old Testament prophecy, of the Gospel accounts, of the Acts and of the Revelation. It has no direct relationship with the Church which is Christ’s Body of which all of the redeemed of this dispensation are members. Since the Church as well as the present dispensation were both Divine secrets until revealed through the Apostle Paul (Ephesians 3:1 to 9; Colossians 1:25 and 26), it follows of necessity that none of the prophecy given before Paul’s time could possibly refer to the Church. Therefore, none of the references to a future coming of Christ outside of the Pauline Epistles apply to the Church. Only those epistles which set forth distinctive Church truth will be found to contain distinctive truth concerning Christ’s coming for the Church. It would be just a useless to try to find the account of the recent World War in a history book written in the nineteenth century, as to try to find the account of the Church in the Old Testament, or even in the Gospels. Just as the Church itself was a hidden mystery from ages past, so also was the truth concerning the rapture of that Church (I Corinthians 15:51 and 52). The mystery here stated is not that Christ will come again, or that there will be a resurrection, but that the bodies of the living saints are to be changed into immortal ones at the same time that the dead in Christ are to be raised in incorruption, and both together caught, up to be with the Lord, not left here for the Kingdom (Philippians 3:20 and 21). See the article: “The Saviour Out of Heaven” in June, 1936 Issue, Bible Study for Bereans; I Thessalonians 4:13 to 18.
The following distinctions should make evident the above affirmations, as well as clarify these great and important doctrines. Since the one concerns the Church and the other the Kingdom, these titles will be used to carry out the distinctions.
1. CHURCH: No political signs are given to forecast the rapture of the Church, although certain spiritual conditions are foretold which will characterize the last days of the Church (II Timothy 3:1 to 9; II Timothy 4:3 and 4).
KINGDOM: Political signs as well as phenomena in nature will immediately precede His coming back to earth (Matthew 24:3 to 44; Joel 2:10, 30, 31; Zephaniah 14:4 to 8; Daniel 7:7 to 28; Revelation 13:14). Some of these signs seem to be already in preparation, but they will not come into open manifestation and fulfillment until the present dispensation of the mystery is completed.
2. CHURCH: No prophecy remains to be fulfilled, so that this event might happen at any moment.
KINGDOM: Much prophecy in regard to political set-ups, to the nation of Israel, and to the seven years of tribulation must first be fulfilled before this event, so that it would be impossible for it to happen during the next seven years.
3. CHURCH: Designated as the Day of Christ, which will be a day of reward and consummation of our salvation (Philippians 1:6, 10; Philippians 2:16; I Corinthians 1:8; II Corinthians 1:14).
KINGDOM: Designated as the Day of the Lord, which will be first of all a day of judgment to be followed by the establishment of the Kingdom (Isaiah 13:9 to 16; Isaiah 24:21 to 23; Isaiah 26:20 and 21; Isaiah 34:1 to 35:10; Ezekiel 30:3; Joel 1:15; Joel 2:1 to 11; Amos 5:16 to 20; Obadiah 1:15 to 21; Zephaniah 1:14 to 18; Zephaniah 14:1 to 21; Malachi 4:1 to 6; Matthew 25:31 to 46; Acts 2:19 to 21; I Thessalonians 5:1 to 3; II Thessalonians 2:1 to 8; (R.V.). 4: CHURCH: Affects only the members of the Body of Christ: the living and the dead in Christ. Unbelievers of Israel and of the Gentiles unaffected.
KINGDOM: Affects all nations, breaking in pieces Gentile powers and judging and establishing Israel as the Head nation (Daniel 2:44 and 45; Deuteronomy 28:13). The Church will be unaffected by it, since it will be with the Lord.
5. CHURCH: Involves an “out-resurrection from the dead”, which appears to precede the first resurrection (Philippians 3:11), and the rapture.
KINGDOM: Involves the first resurrection which occurs at the close of the Great Tribulation (Revelation 20:4 to 6), and no rapture. This resurrection is first in the sense that it comes a thousand years before the final resurrection. These two resurrections are the subjects of prophecy, called elsewhere the resurrection of the just and of the unjust (Acts 24:15; John 5:28 and 29). Since the Church is a secret, its resurrection is a secret one preceding the first resurrection of prophecy, being an “out resurrection from the dead”, signifying that only one cohort of the righteous dead will there be raised, namely the Body of Christ.
6. CHURCH: The material creation with its curse will remain unchanged after the Church is taken out. KINGDOM: The curse will be removed and creation will be delivered from the bondage of corruption (Isaiah 11:6 to 9; Romans 8:21).
7. CHURCH: Christ’s coming for His Church is in no way related to the fulfillment of any covenant, unless God’s promises to the Church be considered in the sense of a one sided covenant, which the Scripture nowhere calls them.
KINGDOM: Christ’s coming back to earth will result in the fulfillment of all of the covenants. These covenants were all made with the nation Israel (Romans 9:4; Ephesians 2:12), and will be fulfilled to that nation. They include the Abrahamic, the Davidic, and the New Covenants.
While we are called the children of Abraham and the seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29; Romans 4:11), it must be understood that these relations exist only in the fact that we are justified as Abraham was, by faith apart from the deeds of the Law, and that through a Saviour Who is Himself Abraham’s Seed (Galatians 3:16), and that we as members of the Body of Christ have no relation to the Abrahamic Covenant which is called the Covenant of Circumcision in Acts 7:8. This covenant has to do with that great nation which God promised to make of Abraham, namely Israel, and with the land which it should possess (Genesis 12:2; Genesis 15:18 to 21). These promises could not refer to the Church; for it is not a great nation, neither is its citizenship upon this earth. Up to this time this covenant has not been fulfilled, but it will be when Christ comes back to earth (Deuteronomy 30:3 to 5).
The Davidic Covenant promised an everlasting kingdom to Israel upon this earth, with a King to sit upon the throne. (II Samuel 7). Israel has been without a king for about twenty-five hundred years (Hosea 3:4), but this covenant will not go forever unfulfilled. Jesus Christ was born to take the throne of David (Luke 1:32), but He was rejected and crucified. However, God raised Him from the dead to sit upon that same throne of David (Acts 2:30), but Peter makes it plain to the children of the covenants that He can not sit upon that throne so long as the heavens retain Him (Acts 3:19 to 26). Christ is not a King today sitting upon the throne of David; He is seated upon His Father’s throne awaiting the time that His enemies will be made His footstool (Hebrews 1:13; Hebrews 10:13). That will occur when He comes out of heaven as King of kings and Lord of Lords. Revelation 9:11 to 16.
The New Covenant was made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jeremiah 31:31). As sinners saved by the blood of Jesus, we enjoy the spiritual benefits of that Covenant, being blessed with all spiritual blessings, but it can in no sense be said that this covenant has been fulfilled with the parties with which it was made. The New Covenant guarantees the conversion of the whole nation of Israel, but we are plainly told that in this present dispensation Israel is an enemy concerning the Gospel. “And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: for this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers: sakes” (Romans 11:26 to 28). Plainly then, this new Covenant cannot be fulfilled until the Deliverer comes out of Sion at some future date. This coming will be Christ’s Second Coming, and, at that time, not by some long and tedious process of the working of the gospel leaven, but instantaneously, the nation of Israel shall be born (Isaiah 66:8). Thus God will fulfill all of these great covenants with His earthly people at the Second Coming of Christ. But before any one of them is fulfilled, we as members of the Body of Christ, will be with Christ, rewarded and blessed with all those blessings which He promised us in Christ before the world began (Ephesians 1:3 and 4).
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
When we read what Jesus Himself taught in Mat 24 we see that the catching up of believers is not before, but after the tribulation.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
It should be pointed out that the King James and New King James are about the only translations that read "the day of Christ" rather than "the day of the Lord" in 2 Thessalonians 2:2. This is important because they are not the same thing. The day of the Lord is not the Rapture but a time of wrath and judgment. The day of Christ is "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him."
TRANSLATIONS
NRSV:
2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as though from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord is already here.
NKJV:
2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
NCV:
2Do not become easily upset in your thinking or afraid if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone may say this in a prophecy or in a message or in a letter as if it came from us.
KJV:
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
ISVNT:
2not to be so quickly upset or alarmed when someone claims that we said either by some spirit, conversation, or letter that the day of the Lord has already come.
ESV:
2not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
DRB:
2that you be not easily moved from your sense nor be terrified, neither by spirit nor by word nor by epistle as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.
DNT:
2that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as [if it were] by us, as that the day of the Lord is present.
ASV:
2to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that the day of the Lord is just at hand;
RSV:
2not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
NASB:
2that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
ICB:
2Do not become easily upset in your thinking or afraid if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone may say this in a prophecy or in a message. Or you may read it in a letter that someone tells you came from us.
NLT:
2Don’t be so easily shaken or alarmed by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Don’t believe them, even if they claim to have had a spiritual vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us.
CEV:
2not to be easily upset or disturbed by people who claim that the Lord has already come. They may say that they heard this directly from the Holy Spirit, or from someone else, or even that they read it in one of our letters.
HCSB:
2not to be easily upset in mind or troubled, either by a spirit or by a message or by a letter as if from us, alleging that the Day of the Lord has come.
TEV:
2not to be so easily confused in your thinking or upset by the claim that the Day of the Lord has come. Perhaps it is thought that we said this while prophesying or preaching, or that we wrote it in a letter.
GWT:
2Don’t get upset right away or alarmed when someone claims that we said through some spirit, conversation, or letter that the day of the Lord has already come.
THE DAY OF THE LORD
Isaiah 2:12 "For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low"
Isaiah 13:6 "Howl; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty."
Isaiah 13:9 "Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."
Isaiah 34:8 "For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion."
Lamentations 2:22 "You have called as in a solemn day my terrors round about, so that in the day of the LORD'S anger none escaped nor remained: those that I have swaddled and brought up has my enemy consumed."
Ezekiel 13:5 "You have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD."
Ezekiel 30:3 "For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen."
Joel 1:15 "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."
Joel 2:1 "Blow the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand"
Joel 2:11 "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executes his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"
Joel 2:31 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come."
Joel 3:14 "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision."
Amos 5:18 "Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."
Amos 5:20 "Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"
Obadiah 1:15 "For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto you: thy reward shall return upon your own head."
Zephaniah 1:7 "Hold your peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he has bid his guests."
Zephaniah 1:8 "And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel."
Zephaniah 1:14 "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hurries greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly."
Zechariah 14:1 "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and your spoil shall be divided in your midst."
Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD"
Acts 2:20 "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come"
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."
THE DAY OF CHRIST
1 Corinthians 1:8 "Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Philippians 1:6 "Being confident of this very thing, that he which has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"
Philippians 1:10 "That you may approve things that are excellent; that you may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ"
Philippians 2:16 "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither labored in vain."
Remember, the Thessalonians had been led astray by the false teaching (2 Thess 2:2- 3) that the Day of the Lord had already come. This was confusing because Paul offered great hope, in the first letter, of a departure [Rapture] to be with Christ and a rescue from God' s wrath. Now a letter purporting to be from Paul seems to say that they would first have to go through the Day of the Lord. Paul then clarified his prior teaching by emphasizing that they had no need to worry. They could again be comforted because the departure he had discussed in his first letter, and in his teaching while with them, was still the truth. The departure of Christians to be with Christ, and the subsequent revelation of the lawless one, Paul argues, is proof that the Day of the Lord had not begun as they had thought.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
Rapture?
Those who teach the rapture most often quote 1 Thessalonians chapter 4:16-17. In this study, we are going to examine 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. There we will learn that the first letter had caused some confusion among the Thessalonians. Many had come to the conclusion that Christ could return at any moment to gather His church. Paul strongly refutes this in the second letter, and he will tell us exactly what we should look for before we can expect Christ to return. The rapture will not stand against these teachings. In order to protect their doctrine, those who teach the rapture have tweaked these scriptures to align with their teachings. We will show you where this is done and prove to you that they are deceiving you, whether intentional or not. On that same note, we will read where God warns us against teachers like these, and even against the rapture doctrine itself. God knew this would happen and He has provided us with the knowledge to overcome false teachers.
2 Thessalonians Chapter 2
1) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Paul is going to talk to us about the return of Jesus, and our gathering back to Him. He says, don't be troubled or doubtful, due to a (deceiving) spirit, some other teaching, or any letter we have written you (the first letter), as that the day of Christ is at hand. The day of Christ is not at hand, it will not happen, until the events are fulfilled that we will read about in the next verse.
3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul makes it very clear that the day of Christ will not come, until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin, the son of perdition is revealed. Now how could any reasonable person read this and say that nothing has to happen before Christ returns? This is one of the places were teachers have taken a great liberty with the word. Some will tell you that this falling away is the rapture of the church. This is absolutely not true and can be easily disproven. If you have a Strong's Concordance you can look up this word falling, #646 apostasia:, it means deflection from the truth. If you have been taught this is the rapture, then you have been deceived. It actually means apostasy, which is to abandon one's religion. This is being fulfilled right now, in fact those who teach this are fulfilling it.
The second event that has to occur before that day, is the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition. To understand who this is we must examine both titles. We know that sin entered into the world when Eve was beguiled by the serpent, which is Satan, and took of the tree of knowledge, Genesis 3:6. So if sin entered into the world as a result of the deception of Satan, wouldn't it make sense if he was called the man of sin? The other title, "the son of perdition", #684 in the Greek, means to perish or die. Only one entity, (by name), has been sentenced to death by God at this time. Our (eternal) judgment, will not come until the white throne judgment in Rev. 20:11-12. You can read where God sentenced Satan to death in Eze. 28:13-19.
Now that we know who this is, we need to find out at what time he is revealed. As verse 3 plainly states, that day is not coming until he is revealed. Now in order to reveal something, it has to have been hidden. I have maintained throughout the studies on this site, that the antichrist will come to the earth playing Jesus. This is why it is hidden, and this is how he is able to deceive so many. In Rev. 12:9, it says he will deceive the whole world. If he was immediately revealed at the point he is thrown out of heaven, he wouldn't deceive anyone. Of course some would willingly follow him, but how many could he apostatize, that is, how many Christians would abandon Christ, to worship him. I dare say very few, but by playing Christ, and very well I might add, he will deceive them and they won't even know who they are worshipping.
Rev. chapter 16 gives you the 7 vials, which are the seventh trump. There you will find, the vials are judgments from God upon the beast and his followers. Many that teach the rapture like to say God hath not appointed us to wrath, and for this reason the rapture is a valid teaching. Well, the tribulation can be broken down into two parts. The first part is the tribulation by Satan, and the second beginning with the seventh trump, is the tribulation by God. The tribulation by God is only for the beast and his followers. It is during this period of the seventh trump that Satan will be revealed for who he truly is. All those that followed him will be receiving these plagues, and there will be no doubt that they are not in good standing with God. They will realize they have been duped and the whole world will know he is a fake. After this, and only after this, does Christ return to reign on the earth. Every verse that deals with the return of Christ, has to do with His returning to reign on the earth. All you need do is take the time to read them in context.
2 Thessalonians Chapter 2
4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This verse clearly states the son of perdition will portray himself as God. This is how he deceives the whole world. It's not complicated, it's not made up, it's simply what the Word of God tells us. What is the temple of God? Is it not the body of Christ, the church? He will stand in the midst of them, making this claim, and sadly many will believe him.
6) And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
In order to understand this verse we need to understand who or what is being referred to. The word withholdeth, means "holds fast", and the he is Satan, as we learned from verse 3. So this should read "now ye know what holds fast that the man of sin, the son of perdition, might be revealed in his time". I know those who teach the rapture say the church is the what, that is holding fast in this verse. This is incorrect, the Greek word that is translated "what", which acts like an English pronoun, is #3588, and it is singular and neutral. Meaning it can only be speaking of a place and not a person or people. If we go to Rev. 12:7, we find that that the beast rises out of the bottomless pit. So this has to be the what that is holding him. We also find, that before Satan comes to the earth as antichrist, there is war in heaven, and he is kicked out of heaven by Michael. No place is found in heaven for him anymore. We can easily draw from these verses that Satan is being kept in a bottomless pit somewhere in heaven.
7) For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
We have just covered the what, now we will clarify who is holding Satan. The he that is holding fast, "letteth" in this verse, can only be Michael. Since it is Michael which casts him to the earth, it must be Michael who is holding him. It makes no sense to say the church is holding Satan, it's clear Satan is being held in a bottomless pit. To say that this is spiritual makes no sense either because his spirit is already at work on the earth (iniquity doth already work). If we can't hold his spirit from working on the earth, how can we hold him de facto from coming to the earth? This business about the church being the great restrainers will not hold water.
8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
The one that holds fast, Michael, will hold fast, to Satan, until he (Michael), is taken out of the way. Then shall that Wicked be revealed, (Satan), whom the Lord shall consume and destroy. Why is Satan revealed after (Michael) is taken out of the way? Once Michael stops holding him, he makes his way to the earth, and at the seventh trump, God's judgments make it clear he is a fake. Deception is receiving him as Christ, when you receive the rapture as truth you are in danger of receiving the antichrist as Christ. The antichrist comes first, be ready!
9) Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10) And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
Notice those who perish do so because of a lack of truth, not because they didn't want to, but because they were deceived into believing a lie. Don't be one of those, this is not hard. Let the Bible be your authority and not man. This is the great falling away - the deflection from the truth, (apostasy), we read about in verse 3.
11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
God will send those who would not receive the truth strong delusion, in the form of the antichrist. This is the lie, he's coming playing God and many have been taught that Christ comes first. This makes it really easy, much of the deception is already here, iniquity is already working.
12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness
The last place we will go is Ezekiel chapter 13. This chapter is about false teachers and how they make up their own salvation rather than teaching God's word. That is what the rapture is doing today. The doctrine that is being discussed in these verses will line up perfectly with what the rapture teaches, and in my opinion it is the rapture. You can decide for yourself. We will only cover a few verses but I urge you to read the whole chapter.
Ezekiel 13
18) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
What we have here is very interesting. This sew pillows to all armholes and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature, simply means a one size fits all doctrine. For instance they may say "All you have to do is believe". God expects more from you than that. In the book of James 2:19 we are told even the devils believe and tremble. You want to do more for God than that don't you? God says "You are preying upon my people by teaching lies" and furthermore He asks, can you save my people with your manmade religion?
19) And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
These teachers are polluting God's truth for payment. If you tell people what they want to hear, they will likely keep coming back again and again. That's a steady flow of money. They are condemning those who are of a pure heart and those who are hypocrites believe they are saved.
20) Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
These pillows are covering up the truth and polluting the word of God. This is the rapture foreseen by God and He is warning them, as well as you, don't teach it and don't believe it. I'm sure you have heard hymns about flying away, coincidence? God is very good to us and he will tear away the lies and deception during the millennium. At that time, we will have one church, instead of numerous denominations, and false doctrines like the rapture. We can do better right now though, if we pray for knowledge, and listen to God's word instead of man. I hope you enjoyed this study. God Bless!
http://www.biblicalrapture.net/rapture.html
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
But I can't find "Rapture" in the Bible.
Look for the meaning of this word and you will.
"Harpazo"
Some Christians say the word "rapture" is not in the scriptures. They mean that it isn't in the English translation of the scriptures! The Latin Vulgate Bible is the Latin translation of the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts by Jerome completed around 405 A.D., and it does have that word in 1 Thessalonians.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (NASB) reads:
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
In the Latin Vulgate it reads:
16 quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi
17 deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus
18 itaque consolamini invicem in verbis istis
The Latin word for "will be caught up" is "rapiemur". The Latin dictionary says that the root for the Latin word "rapiemur" is "rapio" which means "to seize , snatch, tear away; to hurry along a person or thing". In Latin, endings are tacked on for case, number, gender, tense, etc. Many words are "transliterated" directly into English with English endings added. "Rapture" is a scriptural word.
In Greek it is harpazo, but our word "rapture" comes from the Latin.
In the earliest days of the church, most Christians spoke Greek, at least as a second language. It was the language of trade throughout the Roman Empire. As Latin become more and more predominant, the church commissioned Jerome to translate the Scriptures into what is now referred to as the Vulgate. This was the Bible of the western branch of Christianity until the time of the Protestant Reformation.
They would have read "rapiemur" for all that time. It is no wonder to me that the word "rapture" is still used today.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
Barry44
Advanced Member
Member # 8375
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
But I can't find "Rapture" in the Bible.
Look for the meaning of this word and you will.
"Harpazo"
WildB said it all in one word. ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif) You can't find the word Trinity, Bible or Rapture in the scriptures but thier still there.
Rapture:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Harpazo (Greek)
catch, 1; catch away, 2; catch up, 4; pluck, 2; pull, 1; take by force,
--------------------
http://wordoftruth.freeforums.org/index.php
Posts: 63 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2010
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bloodbought:
But I can't find "Rapture" in the Bible.
Look for the meaning of this word and you will.
"Harpazo"
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Bloodbought
Advanced Member
Member # 4365
|
posted
I know it is appointed unto man once to die and there is not one who will not die.
And I know that the souls of believers are caught up to be with the Lord when they die.
And I know that Jesus will come again with His bride of believers.
And I know that all will be resurrected, some to everlasting life and some to everlasting destruction.
But I can't find "Rapture" in the Bible.
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
crimson
Advanced Member
Member # 614
|
posted
Jesus answered the questions of his second coming in Matthew 24.
there are many more theories than the pre, mid, and post trib theories all as wrong as the big 3
pre, mid and post are all put to death by the words of Jesus in Matthew 24.
trying to link other scriptures to Matthew 24 to justify your own theory is not rightly dividing the word of truth.
Jesus comes every day, in the spirit
one day unknown to any man he will again come in the flesh.
in Matthew 24 he says nothing about anyone going anywhere before he comes.
so do not twist other scripture for your own theory
just look at what Jesus said in answer to that very question Matthew 24
Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming,
in the flesh,
any you do not know when,
the day and the theory are not known
it is not in the book
--------------------
I come, not to bring peace, but a sword.
Posts: 35 | From: parts unknown | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
ENOUGH SAID !
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
I do love you Sister Carol:
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
Defending The Pre-Trib Rapture (Again)
Somebody asked me a great question the other day. “Does Scripture actually promise a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, or is it just an opinion passed along from teacher to student?” Then he challenged me to cite even one Bible verse that would lead a person to believe the Pre-Trib position if they hadn’t already heard about it from some Bible teacher. He said that in all his studies he’s not been able to find one. Let’s see if he’s right.
First, Some General Points
The Rapture is not another name for the Second Coming. As 1 Thes. 4:15-17 and John 14:1-3 explain, the Rapture is an unscheduled secret event where Jesus comes part way to Earth to meet His Church in the air and take us to be with Him where He now is. I say unscheduled and secret because its specific timing will remain unknown until it actually happens. On the other hand, The Second Coming is a scheduled public event where Jesus comes all the way to Earth with His Church to establish a Kingdom here. I say scheduled and public because the general time of His coming will be known on Earth over 3 1/2 years in advance, and public because everyone on Earth will be able to witness His arrival. Matt. 24:29-30 says it will happen shortly after the Great Tribulation has ended and all the nations will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky. Membership in the Church and therefore participation in the Rapture is contingent upon having personally accepted the Lord’s death as payment in full for your sins. While His death actually purchased full pardons for everyone, we each have to personally ask to have ours activated. Everyone who asks for salvation receives an unconditional, irrevocable “Yes!” (Matt. 7:7-8, John 3:16, Ephes. 1:13-14) For no matter how many promises God has made, they are “Yes” in Christ. (2 Corinth. 1:20)
It’s Greek To Me
And finally, although cynics can truthfully say that the word Rapture doesn’t appear in any passage of Scripture, the statement is not correct in its intent. Rapture is a word of Latin origin, not Hebrew or Greek, the languages of the Bible. (One of the earliest translations of the Bible was into Latin, and the word rapture comes from there.) Its Greek equivalent is harpazo, which is found in the Greek text of 1 Thes. 4:17. When they’re translated into English, both words mean “to be caught up, or snatched away.” Harpazo, the word Paul actually used, comes from roots that mean, “to raise from the ground” and” take for oneself” and hints that in doing so the Lord is eagerly claiming us for Himself. So while the Latin word doesn’t appear in our Bibles, the event it describes certainly does. There’s a similar situation with the word Lucifer, also of Latin origin. It doesn’t appear in any of the original texts either, but no one would be naive enough to deny the existence of Satan on such a flimsy basis. With that introduction, let’s go first to the best known of the Rapture passages.
According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. (1 Thes. 4:15-17)
Most of us are very familiar with these verses. But notice they don’t tell you when the rapture happens, only that it does. Notice also that the Lord doesn’t come all the way to Earth. We meet Him in the clouds and then according to John 14:1-3 go back with Him to where He came from. If this was the 2nd coming, He would be coming here to be where we are, not coming to take us there to be where He is. Paul described the same event in 1 Cor 15:51-52. In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye the dead in Christ will rise and the living will be transformed. There he said that he was disclosing a secret, but the resurrection of the dead was not a secret. It can be found through out the Old Testament. The secret was that some would not die, but be taken alive into the Lord’s presence following an instantaneous transformation. The rapture happens fast. In one instant we’re walking on Earth and in the very next, we’re in the Kingdom. Don’t try to use the trumpet reference in verse 52 to pin the timing down. There are several “Last Trumpets” in the Bible and Jewish tradition. This verse just means it’s the last trumpet we’ll hear before we’re changed. Since both the Corinthian passage and the one from Thessalonians describe the same things, it’s safe to assume that this trumpet is the same one mentioned in 1 Thes. 4:16 and is not pointing us toward any other event. So these two references both say that one generation of humans won’t die but will be suddenly changed from our earthly form to our heavenly one. And since both Matt. 24:31 (they’ll gather His elect from one end of the heavens to the other) and Rev. 17:14 (with Him will be His called, chosen, and faithful followers) say that we’ll be with the Lord when He returns, this has to happen sometime before the 2nd Coming. And it can’t be just the resurrected believers coming back with Him because the Rapture passages above say that we’ll be changed at the same time as the dead are raised.
So When Does This Happen?
In the New Testament, the clearest indication we get in the timing department is found in 1 Thes. 1:9-10. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. The Greek word translated “from” in this passage is “apo.” Taken literally, it means we’re to be rescued from the time, the place, or any relation to God’s wrath. It denotes both departure and separation. This is supported by 1 Thes. 5:9 that declares, “God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Some folks are fond of pointing out that you can’t use God’s wrath interchangeably with the Great Tribulation. They’re not the same, they say. And they’re right, the two terms are not synonymous. The Great Tribulation is 3 1/2 years long and begins in Rev. 11-13. God’s wrath is much longer, beginning in Rev. 6, as verse 17 explains. Post-trib. and pre-wrath rapture advocates try to deny this but the Scripture is clear. The time of God’s wrath begins with the Seal Judgments. The Bowl Judgments that come later don’t begin the time of His wrath, they conclude it. (Rev. 15:1) Being rescued from the time, the place and any relation to God’s Wrath means the Church has to disappear before Rev. 6, and that’s why we believe the Rapture takes place in Rev. 4 and the Church is the group of believers in view in heaven in Rev.5.
You Be The Judge
Now let’s apply my questioner’s litmus test. Could a believer, sitting alone on the proverbial desert isle with nothing but a Bible and with no pre-conceived ideas, conclude that there’s a pre-trib Rapture just from reading about it, or could he only be led into this position by first hearing someone teach him about it? Well, From Isaiah 13:9-13 and Amos 5:18-20, he would have learned that God is going to judge the Earth for it’s sins in a terrible time called the Day of the Lord when He’ll pour out His wrath on mankind. Reading Matt. 24:21-22 would have told him that this time of judgment would be so bad that if the Lord didn’t put a stop to it no one would survive. But the Lord will put a stop to it by returning in power and glory. Since he would know that the Lord hasn’t returned yet, he would know that God’s wrath is still in the future. When he got to 1 Thes. 1:9-10 he would see a pretty clear statement. Jesus rescues us from the coming wrath. In the “who, what, where, when, and why” methodology of the investigative reporter he would have the Who, (Jesus) the what, (rescues us) and the when (the time of the coming wrath). Reading on he would come to 1 Thes. 4:15:17 and get the where (from Earth to the clouds) and in 1 Thes. 5:9 the why (because we’re not appointed to wrath). From there he would logically conclude that since we’ll be rescued around the time of the coming wrath and since we’re not appointed to wrath, our rescue has to precede it. He could also answer another of the investigative reporter’s questions in 1 Thes. 4:15:17 and that’s how it would happen. The Lord himself will come down from Heaven into our atmosphere and suddenly snatch us away from Earth to join Him there. In chapter 5 he would learn that he would never know the exact timing of this event but only that it would precede the coming wrath. Of course there are many more passages I could reference but I think I’ve made my point and answered the question. In fact I’ll go one step further. I believe that since our hypothetical reader has no one to persuade him differently, he would assume that what he’s reading is to be taken literally. And if that’s the case, then the pre-trib position is the only conclusion he could logically come to, because every other position requires a moderate to massive re-interpretation of Scripture. I contend that left alone to work this out with only the Holy Spirit as his guide he would expect to be raptured before the wrath of God begins in Rev. 6. You see, God didn’t write the Bible to confuse us, but to inform us. It’s mankind that’s gotten everything all mixed up. If you give the Holy Spirit a clear minded student, uncontaminated by man’s opinions and prejudices, He would bring that person to the understanding of the rapture that’s most consistent with a literal interpretation of Scripture. And that requires a pre-trib rapture.
But Wait, There’s More
While we’re on the topic, there’s another issue that points to a pre-trib Rapture and it comes to us in the form of a clue in 1 Thes. 4:15, right at the beginning of the Rapture passage. Verse 15 opens with the phrase “According to the Lord’s own word.” There simply is no place in the New Testament where Jesus speaks of some being resurrected and some others being transformed to meet the Lord in the air. He never said anything like that, nor does he even imply such a thing. Those who believe they see it in Matt. 24:40-41 first have to ignore the fact that Jesus was explaining events on Earth on the actual day of His return, which would place the Rapture after the 2nd Coming, something no one believes. They also have to ignore the fact that in Matt. 24:40-41 both believers and non-believers are sent somewhere, believers being received unto Him, while non-believers are sent away. You have to research the Greek words translated “taken” (paralambano) and “left” (alphiemi) to realize this, but when you do you’ll see that the English is misleading. No Rapture view includes the disposition of non-believers, nor does it even mention them. By the way, this is a great example of why the literal, historical, grammatical interpretation is so important. Our Bible was mostly written in Hebrew and Greek. Every translation relies on the movement of words from one language to another. This process doesn’t always produce a perfect fit, and so learned men have to make allowances for this and exercise their own judgment from time to time. But men are not perfect. We all have our biases. When it’s an important issue where you want an exact meaning it’s always a good idea to double-check their work. Fortunately we have an incredible tool in the Strong’s Concordance. It contains every Hebrew and Greek word in the Bible with their primary and secondary meanings, how often each word appears in the Bible and what meanings are used in each appearance. You can compare these with the meaning the translators used and see if you agree with their treatment of the passage. By doing this with Matt. 24:40-41, you’ll find that the primary meaning of paralambano is to receive and the primary meaning of alphiemi is to send away. People with a post-trib disposition read 1 Thes. 4:15, and then turned to Matt. 24:40-41 where they saw one group being “taken” and another group being “left” after the end of the Great Tribulation. Assuming that these were the Lord’s own words Paul was referring to, they stopped there. They had seen what they wanted to see. In actuality Matt. 24:40-41 is most likely a preview of the Sheep and Goat judgment of Tribulation survivors. The word taken (received) refers to believers going live into the Kingdom, and the word left (sent away) applies to non-believers who are sent to the place prepared for the Devil and his angels. (Matt 25:31-46) Of course none of this pertains to our desert island reader above. The verses I used there are clear enough that they don’t require any research into the original language. So he wouldn’t need a Strong’s Concordance, just his Bible.
What’s Your Point?
So if Jesus never taught about the Rapture, to which of the “Lord’s own words” was Paul referring? Some dismiss the phrase, saying that Paul was speaking of a conversation he had with the Lord that doesn’t appear in Scripture. But I think we deserve a better answer than that. Remember, 1st Thessalonians was probably Paul’s first written communication, undertaken in 51AD. Depending on whose opinion you accept, Matthew’s Gospel was either just being written or was still nearly 10 years away. Those who give it an early date say it was written to the Jews in Jerusalem and may even have been written in Hebrew. In any case neither it nor any other Gospel was yet in wide distribution. (Mark’s Gospel, the other candidate for earliest one written, doesn’t contain an equivalent to Matt 24:40-41.) So if Paul was referring to Scripture, as I believe he was, it had to be the Old Testament. Yes, like everything else in God’s plan, you’ll find hints of the Rapture even in the Old Testament. Look at this passage from Isaiah 26:19-21. But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. Notice how the pronouns change from second person when God speaks of His people to third person when He speaks of the people of the Earth. It means the two groups are different. Those called “my people” are told to “enter your rooms” (the rooms of John 14:1-3?) because the others, called “the people of Earth” are going to be punished for their sins in a period of time called His Wrath. Sound familiar? (Note: the Hebrew word translated “go” in the phrase “Go my people” is translated “come” in some translations, recalling the command to John in Revelation 4, “Come up here!” But the word has another primary meaning and it’s my favorite. It means vanish. “Vanish, my people!” Yes we will.) Not by any stretch of the imagination has this passage been literally fulfilled. It’s an End Times prophecy that promises a resurrection of the dead and hiding of God’s people while God’s Wrath is unleashed on the people of Earth for their sins. And it was written 2750 years ago. The hiding of the Jews in the desert on Earth at the beginning of the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14) cannot be considered as a fulfillment of this passage because no resurrection accompanies it. (The resurrection of Old Testament believers takes place at the end of the Great Tribulation. (Daniel 12:2)) Of course, no one knows for sure that this is the passage Paul referred to, but as evidence of its influence on him, let’s compare it with what Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 4-5. Isaiah : But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead. Paul: The dead in Christ will rise first . Isaiah : Go, my people, enter your rooms and shut the doors behind you; hide yourselves for a little while until his wrath has passed by. Paul: After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Isaiah : See, the LORD is coming out of his dwelling to punish the people of the earth for their sins. Paul: While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. The wording is a little different, but it sure looks to me like they’re describing the same event.
And Still More
There are other sound theological reasons why the Church will be raptured before the End Times judgments begin. One is that the Lord seems to keep Israel and the Church separate, never dealing with both at the same time (Acts 15: 13-18) If the primary purpose of Daniel’s 70th week is to finish fulfilling the six promises to Israel in Daniel 9:24, then the Church has to disappear. Another is that the Church was purified at the cross at which time all the punishment due us was born by the Lord Himself. From that time forward the Church is considered by God to be as righteous as He is (2 Cor 5:17 & 21) The idea that the Church needs to undergo some discipline to become worthy to dwell with God is unscriptural and denies the Lord’s completed work on the cross. And third, the stated purpose of the Great Tribulation is twofold, to purify Israel and completely destroy the unbelieving nations. (Jeremiah 30:1-11) The Church isn’t destined for either of these outcomes. There are also several subtle clues that on their own can’t be used to support the pre-trib position, but which underscore the validity of the clear passages I’ve just cited. Take for instance the fact that Enoch, who bears a great similarity to the Church, disappeared before the Great Flood, that the angels couldn’t destroy Sodom and Gomorrah until Lot and his family were clear, and that Daniel was missing from the story of the fiery furnace, a model of the Great Tribulation. When the Lord described His coming in Luke 17:26-29 He said that it would be both like the days of Noah (some will be preserved through the accompanying judgments) and the days of Lot (some will taken away before them). And what about the promise He made to the Church in Philadelphia that he would keep us out of the “hour” of trial coming on the whole world. (Rev. 3:10) Is that the same as the “hour” of Babylon’s destruction in Rev. 18? But being asked to cite verses that didn’t require any prior knowledge I picked two that are clearest to me, 1 Thes. 1:9-10 and Isaiah 26: 19-21. And so by the testimony of two witnesses, one in the Old Testament and one in the New, we see the physical separation of believers from non-believers preceding the time of Judgment. And by the testimony of two witnesses a thing shall be established. (Deut. 19:15) Of course some won’t be convinced until we show them a verse that says the rapture will precede the Great Tribulation in those exact words. Obviously, such a verse doesn’t exist. I guess we’ll just have to wait and explain it to them on the way up.
Jack Kelley
http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashiach/defending-the-pre-trib-rapture-again/
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
PRE-TRIB RAPTURE---
Fact or Fable?
Harry Bethel
BethelMinistries.com
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Tim. 4:3-4).
Jesus prayed to the Father, "My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one" (Jn. 17:15).
Concerning the endtime Jesus said, "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and be put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me" (Mt. 24:9).
"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the Word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands" (Rev. 20:4).
There is a widespread teaching today that says that Christians will be raptured before the last-days Great Tribulation spoken of in Daniel chapter 12 and Revelation chapters 6 through 20. But, in this article you will see that, according to the Scriptures, Jesus will rapture the saints on the last day of the Great Tribulation, not before it. You will see that neither the apostle Paul nor the apostle Peter believed in the imminent return of Christ. And you will see that the pre-tribulation rapture theory is a false doctrine---it is a fable.
First we will consider the origin of the pre-tribulation rapture theory, and then see some of the reasons why many Christians believe it. Then we will look at the relevant passages of Scripture that will show that many sincere Christians are deceived about this very important doctrine in these last days.
Origin of the Pre-Trib Rapture Theory
The pre-trib rapture theory is not something that God has revealed to us in these last days. Indeed it is a doctrine from demons that has been perpetuated through well-meaning men for the past few generations.
There is no known writing existing, or referred to by other writers, of the pre-trib rapture teaching prior to 1830. None of the early Church fathers or anyone else throughout Church history wrote about the saints being raptured before the end-time Great Tribulation. This does not conclusively mean that the theory is false, only that it is a historical fact that this teaching did not exist among the early Christians or the Church fathers or any Christians throughout history until 1830.
Reportedly the origin of the pre-trib rapture teaching was with a fifteen-year-old girl named Margaret MacDonald in the town of Port Glasgow, Scotland. Supposedly in 1830 she had a dream or vision that Christians were raptured just prior to the Great Tribulation. In 1831 or 1832 a Presbyterian pastor in London, England named Edward Irving heard about this dream or vision that Miss MacDonald had and started teaching it to his congregation. These are well-known reports among scholars of eschatology.
These reports concerning the origin of the pre-trib rapture theory may or may not be true. What is well-documented is the fact that John Nelson Darby, the founder of a group known as the Plymouth Brethren, after visiting Miss MacDonald began teaching this new theory.
Later, by 1917, C. I. Scofield had published his improved edition of the Scofield Reference Bible which contained the dispensational pre-tribulation teachings of Darby and others. Soon many Bible Colleges such as Moody Bible Institute and seminaries such as Dallas Theological Seminary became staunch promoters of dispensational theology that included the doctrine of a pre-tribulation rapture.
In 1970 Hal Lindsey, who attended Dallas Theological Seminary, popularized this teaching with his book titled The Late Great Planet Earth. Several million copies have been sold and a movie by the same title was made.
The widespread acceptance of a doctrine does not make it true. What really matters is not whether some Bible colleges and seminaries teach the pre-tribulation rapture theory, or whether many pastors teach it, or whether many Christians accept it as true; what really matters is what does the Word of God say?
Most Christians in this country are not spiritually ready to go through what is on the horizon if it is as late as we think it is. The days of the Great Tribulation will be the worst time that this world has ever seen. And this earth has seen some very bad times. Probably not many Christians will be ready to go through the Great Tribulation, but believing that you are going to be raptured out before it begins is certainly not conducive to spiritual preparation for it.
Imminent Return of Christ?
The pre-trib rapture teaching of many church leaders carries with it the doctrine of the imminent return of Christ. This is the belief that Christ could return at any moment, even before you finish reading this sentence.
The apostle Peter did not believe that Jesus would return at any moment after He ascended into heaven. Jesus, before His ascension, told Peter that he would live to be an old man, which would be many years later, and how he would die to glorify God (Jn. 21:18-19).
Paul knew that he was a chosen vessel unto the Lord to bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel (Acts 9:15). The apostle knew that the rapture would not take place before this ministry was accomplished.
So, if Peter and Paul did not believe in the imminent return of Christ, then when can Christians believe that Christ could return at any moment? The answer is recorded in Luke 21:25-28. "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men's hearts failing them for fear and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." These things will happen on the last day of the Great Tribulation.
Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit of Christ, wrote concerning the rapture, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by [concerning] the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by [concerning] our gathering together unto him...Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thess. 2:1-3).
Paul wrote, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air...For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night...But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief" (1 Thess. 4:16-17, 5:2-4).
Jesus will rapture the saints with the sound of a trump. Which trump? Paul wrote, "Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (1 Cor. 15:51-52).
When is the last trump? According to the Revelation there are seven trumpets during the Great Tribulation. The seventh and last trumpet recorded in Scripture is sounded on the last day of the tribulation: "And the seventh angel sounded [the seventh and last trumpet]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ, and he shall reign for ever and ever...And the nations were angry, and thy wrath [from which the saints were delivered] is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints" (Rev. 11:15-18).
The Chronology of the Revelation
It is imperative to know that the last day of the tribulation is depicted in six passages throughout the Revelation. It is impossible to understand the chronology of the events of the Great Tribulation without seeing this. The last day of the Great Tribulation is portrayed (perhaps within a few verses before and after) in the following passages in the Revelation: 6:12-17; 11:15-19; 14:14-20; 16:17-21; 19:11-21; and 20:9-21:8. John the Revelator wrote of events that he saw and then wrote of the last day. Then he wrote of events that he saw and then wrote of the last day. He did this six times in the Book of Revelation.
Not Appointed to Which Wrath?
We are living in times of easy believism, easy credit, easy living, and easy exit for the saints. The major point that pre-tribulationists try to make to uphold their view is that God has not appointed us to wrath. But we must answer the question, What is the wrath to which we are not appointed? And, can saints go through the Great Tribulation without directly suffering the wrath of God, as did the Old Testament saints in Egypt when God sent his plagues because of Pharaoh?
One of the purposes of the Great Tribulation will be for unrepentant worldlings to experience the judgment of God as have sinful societies throughout history, from the Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, Jerusalem, and others up to the worldwide judgment of the end-time Tribulation. Another purpose will be the persecution of the saints during the Great Tribulation in order to clean us up for the return of Christ. Much of the suffering of the saints during this terrible time will be from persecution and not directly from the judgments of God. (There will, however, be suffering because of not being able to buy or sell without the mark of the Beast, etc. Christians who do not take the mark will not be able to be legally employed, pay taxes on their property, buy automobile tags, gasoline, food or anything else.)
Christians during the Great Tribulation will be like those saints of the Old Dispensation mentioned in the Book of Hebrews. They "were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: and others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: they were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; (of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth" (Heb. 11:35-38).
In Revelation 6:9-11 it says, "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held...And white robes were given unto every one of them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." In the next chapter the apostle John saw not just Jews but "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes...And one of the elders [around the throne] answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of [the] great tribulation" (7:9, 13-14).
Pre-tribulationists argue that the word "church" is not even mentioned after Revelation chapter 3. That is true (except that "churches" is mentioned in 22:16), but the "saints" are referred to more than a dozen times after chapter 3. And Jesus said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (Mt. 24:21-22).
Persecution & Martyrdom---The N. T. Norm
Persecution and martyrdom is, in fact, the New Testament norm. Jesus said to His disciples, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you...The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you..." (Jn. 15:19-20). Peter wrote, "For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" (1 Pet. 2:21). And Paul wrote, "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution" (2 Tim. 3:12).
According to Church history all the Apostles suffered martyrdom except John who was banished to the Isle of Patmos. The apostles were thrown into prison time and again during their ministry, and suffered beatings and other persecution (Acts 5:40; 16:23; 2 Cor. 11:25; et al.). Paul was in and out of jail, suffered beatings and was incarcerated, under house-arrest, for two years (Acts 28:30) before his martyrdom.
We are not experiencing persecution in America, not because Satan has changed his strategy, but because the saints have changed theirs. Most Christians in this country have not been endued with power from On High and are not proclaiming a scriptural evangelistic message which includes remission of sins and repentance (Lk. 13:3-5; 24:47; Mk. 1:15; 6:12; Acts 3:19; 17:30; 26:19-20; 2 Pet. 3:9).
Most evangelistic messages are watered-down, easy-believism, half-truths that omit the need for repentance for salvation. (Look at the Gospel tracts in the tract rack at bookstores and in your church building, or listen to your "pastor" preach an evangelistic message or give "an invitation" to see if you can even find or hear the word "repent" or "repentance" mentioned.
Some church leaders teach that believing in an imminent pre-trib rapture will influence Christians to live holy lives. But the Scriptures teach, referring to the heavens and earth being destroyed by fire, "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?...Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless" (2 Pet. 3:11-14).
There has never been a time when so many Christians believed in an imminent pre-trib rapture and yet the twentieth-century church in America can be characterized by almost anything but holiness. (With all the filth of the television programs and cheap output of the press brought into our homes, divorce, worldly dress and sports activities, ad nauseam.) Most Christians in America live and look too much like worldlings; there is no contrast, therefore in many cases there is no conviction brought about by the Holy Spirit in the lives of the unsaved.
Paul said, "...We glory in tribulations (thlipsis) also: knowing that tribulation (thlipsis) worketh patience" (Rom. 5:3). This is the same Greek word used in Revelation when John saw a great multitude in white robes and one of the elders around the throne said, "These are they which came out of [the] great tribulation (thlipsis)..." (7:9, 13-14). The Greek noun thlipsis was also used in Acts 11:19 concerning the persecution of the Church at the time of Stephen's martyrdom and is rendered "persecution."
"In the world ye shall have tribulation" (John 16:33). "We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 4:22). "Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you...for my sake...Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you" (Mt. 5:10-12).
Tribulation and persecution is not the wrath of God. Again, persecution and martyrdom is the New Testament norm. The wrath of God that Christians will be kept from is the wrath of the last day and, of course, the wrath of the Lake of Fire. Those who have been saved by Jesus have already been delivered from the eternal Lake of Fire which is the wrath to come. Paul wrote, "...Jesus...delivered us [past tense] from the wrath to come" (1 Thess. 1:10).
God Takes His People Through Tribulation
Even a casual reading of the Scriptures will reveal that God takes His people through tribulation rather than delivering them from it. Beginning with Noah and his family who were kept safe in the ark which was a type of Christ---they went right through the middle of the flood with torrential rains coming down from above and all the waters from below: "...All the fountains of the great deep [were] broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened" (Gen. 7:11).
Another well-known example is the three Hebrews who were not delivered from going through the fiery furnace which was heated seven times hotter than usual. Indeed they went right through the middle of that persecution and the Lord went through it with them.
Yet another example of God sending His saints through tribulation rather than keeping them from it, is Daniel being thrown into the den of lions. He went right through the middle of that persecution, but God sent an angel to close the mouths of the lions. That great saint brought glory to God in that tribulation.
Like the Old Testament saints listed among the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 and all the Apostles who were martyred except John who suffered the persecution of Patmos, God sometimes lets His saints suffer and die for His glory.
Beloved, let no man deceive you. The saints will go through the tribulation depicted in the Revelation. The Antichrist will be given power "to make war with the saints, and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:7). The prophet Daniel wrote concerning the Antichrist, "He will speak against the Most High and oppress His saints...The saints will be handed over to him [the Antichrist] for [three and a half years]...He [the Antichrist] will destroy the mighty men and the holy people" (Dan. 7:25, 8:24). Christians who are compromisers before the Great Tribulation are not going to be overcomers through it.
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
ive always stated that NO one, no man, no boy, no girl, no devil, demon, nor anthing else can [harpazo] pluck you from the hand of the Father!
Eph: 6 There is no armour for your back!
Only an individual can "TURN" away making shipwreck the faith!
Any further discussion would surely lead to OSAS, but
yes NO one can pluck you; but you can turn away from the Holy Spirit and quit responding to conviction ...i dont mean slip into sin;bu into constant unrepenting selfish rebellion...where is that line..
im not sure..but it is posible to turn!
So the OSAS LIE IS STILL A LIE!
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
So you are saying that no one can take (harpazō) us from the Father's hand, we are eternally secure. And the same word is used to say that our Lord Jesus Christ can and will take (harpazō) us at the rapture.
Thanks! I agree!!!
Amen and Amen!!!!!
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
So you are saying that no one can take (harpazō) us from the Father's hand, we are eternally secure. And the same word is used to say that our Lord Jesus Christ can and will take (harpazō) us at the rapture.
Thanks! I agree!!!
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
All of the above instances are harpazo
Strong's G726 - harpazō ἁρπάζω
Transliteration
harpazō
Pronunciation
här-pä'-zō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From a derivative of αἱρέω (G138)
TDNT Reference
1:472,80
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 13 AV — catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2, catch 1, pull 1 Thayer's Lexicon (Help)
So we see here that in the context of the word pluck S #726 (harpazo we see that no one can harpazo , pluck, you from the Father....This is not in context of one "turning away"
Yall mentioned greek..so then study the greek my Brothers and Sisters..
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
Luke, Chapter 8, 046: And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.
Luke, Chapter 8, 047: And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
Bother Bill continually stated: harpazo
Which is Strongs # 726 Do a study of the greek here folks:
John 10:28-29
28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Note the words here "plucked" Strongs 726 Greek harpazo..humm
Jhn 10:28 And I 2504 give 1325 unto them 846 eternal 166 life 2222; and 2532 they shall 622 0 never 3364 1519 165 perish 622 , neither 2532 3756 shall 726 0 any 5100 [man] pluck 726 them 846 out of 1537 my 3450 hand 5495.
Jhn 10:29 My 3450 Father 3962, which 3739 gave 1325 [them] me 3427, is 2076 greater than 3187 all 3956; and 2532 no 3762 [man] is able 1410 to pluck 726 [them] out of 1537 my 3450 Father's 3962 hand 5495.
Now look at "caught up"
1 Thess 4:
13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
2Cr 12:2 I knew 1492 a man 444 in 1722 Christ 5547 above 4253 0 fourteen 1180 years 2094 ago 4253, (whether 1535 in 1722 the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 ; or whether 1535 out 1622 of the body 4983, I cannot 3756 tell 1492 : God 2316 knoweth 1492 ![[Wink]](wink.gif) such an one 5108 caught up 726 to 2193 the third 5154 heaven 3772.
2Cr 12:4 How that 3754 he was caught up 726 into 1519 paradise 3857, and 2532 heard 191 unspeakable 731 words 4487, which 3739 it is 1832 0 not 3756 lawful 1832 for a man 444 to utter 2980 .
1Th 4:17 Then 1899 we 2249 which 3588 are alive 2198 [and] remain 4035 shall be caught up 726 together 260 with 4862 them 846 in 1722 the clouds 3507, to 1519 meet 529 the Lord 2962 in 1519 the air 109: and 2532 so 3779 shall we 2071 0 ever 3842 be 2071 with 4862 the Lord 2962.
Rev 12:5 And 2532 she brought forth 5088 a man 730 child 5207, who 3739 was 3195 to rule 4165 all 3956 nations 1484 with 1722 a rod 4464 of iron 4603: and 2532 her 846 child 5043 was caught up 726 unto 4314 God 2316, and 2532 [to] his 846 throne 2362.
Act 8:39 And 1161 when 3753 they were come up 305 out of 1537 the water 5204, the Spirit 4151 of the Lord 2962 caught away 726 Philip 5376, 2532 that the eunuch 2135 saw 1492 3756 him 846 no more 3765: and 1063 he went 4198 on his 846 way 3598 rejoicing 5463 .
All of the above instances are harpazo
Strong's G726 - harpazō ἁρπάζω
Transliteration
harpazō
Pronunciation
här-pä'-zō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
From a derivative of αἱρέω (G138)
TDNT Reference
1:472,80
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage 1) to seize, carry off by force
2) to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly
3) to snatch out or away
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 13 AV — catch up 4, take by force 3, catch away 2, pluck 2, catch 1, pull 1 Thayer's Lexicon (Help)
So we see here that in the context of the word pluck S #726 (harpazo we see that no one can harpazo , pluck, you from the Father....This is not in context of one "turning away"
Yall mentioned greek..so then study the greekmy Brothers and Sisters..
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Sister Betty states:
quote:
Let us serve Jesus until He calls us home, be it by death or rapture. When the rapture takes place it will not be for only those who understand the end times but for all of God's children. So have a bless day and serve God with all your heart.
God bless each of us on this board with His love and care.
betty
This which was stated by my sister has a nice ring to it, and truth. If im wrong about the truth being Post Trib, alongwith post wrath, and Sister Betty along with prob. 90% of this board is correct in thier doctrine of Pre-Tribulation Catching Away, and Pre-Wrath of YHWH. i will be ashamed of believing a false doctrine..
OH BUT IF IM RIGHT about it, The Pre-Trib, and Pre wrath veiw could be most dangerous to folks who think that were not going to go through those times of great Trouble, who think that YHWH must have either left them or they were never saved..
Either way if the question and or posts stop on this thread then i will also subside on this thread. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
i still love you Sister Betty although we are bitterly opposed on 5-6 doctrines...
i dont think your malicious, or trying to decieve anyone, and i think you earnestly believe what your posting.
i cannot say that about all those on this board, for i truly believe there are decievers here and apostates..
Pray for me if you see me as a cult, for i accept all prayers, and any scriptures you would like to send me... barrykind@yahoo.com
yours in HIM
barry
And how do you know, maybe some of us have already gone thru times of great Trouble?
Some write books as moved by God others help the silent majority behind the curtain.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
Sister Betty states:
quote:
Let us serve Jesus until He calls us home, be it by death or rapture. When the rapture takes place it will not be for only those who understand the end times but for all of God's children. So have a bless day and serve God with all your heart.
God bless each of us on this board with His love and care.
betty
This which was stated by my sister has a nice ring to it, and truth. If im wrong about the truth being Post Trib, alongwith post wrath, and Sister Betty along with prob. 90% of this board is correct in thier doctrine of Pre-Tribulation Catching Away, and Pre-Wrath of YHWH. i will be ashamed of believing a false doctrine..
OH BUT IF IM RIGHT about it, The Pre-Trib, and Pre wrath veiw could be most dangerous to folks who think that were not going to go through those times of great Trouble, who think that YHWH must have either left them or they were never saved..
Either way if the question and or posts stop on this thread then i will also subside on this thread.
i still love you Sister Betty although we are bitterly opposed on 5-6 doctrines...
i dont think your malicious, or trying to decieve anyone, and i think you earnestly believe what your posting.
i cannot say that about all those on this board, for i truly believe there are decievers here and apostates..
Pray for me if you see me as a cult, for i accept all prayers, and any scriptures you would like to send me... barrykind@yahoo.com
yours in HIM
barry
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Let us serve Jesus until He calls us home, be it by death or rapture. When the rapture takes place it will not be for only those who understand the end times but for all of God's children. So have a bless day and serve God with all your heart.
God bless each of us on this board with His love and care.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
STANDING WHATEVER THE COST
by Cornelius R. Stam
When the Babylonian multitudes prostrated themselves in worship before the golden god which Nebuchadnezzar had erected, three young Hebrews refused to bow and remained standing, erect and alone.
When called before Nebuchadnezzar to answer for their impudence and threatened with death in a fiery furnace, they answered:
"Our God whom we serve is able to deliver us... but if not, be it known unto thee, O King, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up" (Dan. 3:17,18).
This is the stand every believer should take for God and His truth. He is able to deliver us from persecution if we stand true, but even if He does not see fit to do this we should still stand alone, if necessary, for the light He has given us from His Word.
Many have suffered temporary loss for standing for their convictions. Hebrews 11 lists among the heroes of faith some who were "tortured, not accepting deliverance," and others who suffered "trial of cruel mockings and scourgings ...bonds and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword; they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented" (Heb. 11:35-37).
But we read that these all "obtained a good report" before God and looked forward to "a better resurrection" (Vers. 35,39).
As the apostasy rises all about us and those who stand for God's truth are often ridiculed and despised, may God give us the grace to stand true regardless of the cost, remembering that any sufferings for Christ are only temporary while the rewards will be eternal.
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
wildbill your like a "broken": record
You post scripture, when that is refuted in light of other scriptures you resort to non sense;
opinionated words to no avail..strife.
You cannot post scriptures to refute doctrine plainlyshown to you ; so you resort to posts of non sense..
you do not keep to the thread and drift , like wood on the ocean
Postscripture not retoric..sir
Wood on the ocean is turned about with a very small helm.
James, Chapter 3
001: My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
002: For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
003: Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
004: Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
005: Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
006: And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
007: For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
008: But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
009: Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
010: Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
011: Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Barry,
We were prefer the truth of the Gospel over cult teachings.
Betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
wildbill your like a "broken": record
You post scripture, when that is refuted in light of other scriptures you resort to non sense;
opinionated words to no avail..strife.
You cannot post scriptures to refute doctrine plainlyshown to you ; so you resort to posts of non sense..
you do not keep to the thread and drift , like wood on the ocean
Postscripture not retoric..sir
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
betty states:
quote:
WildB,
I think Barry just likes to talk to hear himself talk.
betty
maybe "like to see myself TYPE"
That would be better anology, for i have not said a word in perhaps 2 hours..
![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
That does not surprise me. Your to bizzy a boy spamming the board with your re-cycled opinion.
Mixing law with grace is the leaven that God declared would leaven the whole lump. Galatians 5:9. In this same Epistle God says He does not want His people, under grace, to observe religious times and days. Galatians 4:10. What has this leaven done? Take a look at the present condition of the crops. More than ninety-five percent of professing Christians are in ritualism, modernism, fanaticism or in some metaphysical cult as the result of this leaven, directly or indirectly. Millions of saved church-members do not know whether they are old testament Israelites, marching to Zion, or members of the Body of Christ seated in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus. They do not know whether they are saved by grace plus works, or by grace unto good works. Ephesians 2:8 to 10. The great majority of Christians frustrate the grace of God and prevent the "grace" gospel.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
betty states:
quote:
WildB,
I think Barry just likes to talk to hear himself talk.
betty
maybe "like to see myself TYPE"
That would be better anology, for i have not said a word in perhaps 2 hours..
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
WildB,
I think Barry just likes to talk to hear himself talk.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
This was posted several years ago by I think Kindgo:
Enoch—Genesis 5
Elijah—2 Kings 6
Isaiah—Isaiah 6
Philip—Acts 8
Paul—2 Corinthians 12
• Two Witnesses—Revelation 11
• Male Child (Jesus)—Revelation 12
Enoch
As far as the biblical account records, Enoch became the first individual to be raptured and taken to be with the Lord. Genesis 5:24 records the remarkable event of Enoch’s translation to heaven. "And Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis 5:24). What does it mean that Enoch "was not, for God took Him?" It means that Enoch was translated, without dying, and went directly to be with the Lord. Enoch was raptured, to use the language of 1 Thessalonians 4:17 or he was "taken," to use the language of John 14:3. That Enoch was raptured or translated to heaven is clear when compared with the dismal refrain "and he died" that accompanies the legacy of the other patriarchs mentioned in Genesis 5.
Enoch’s rapture is confirmed by the divinely inspired New Testament commentary found in Hebrews 11:5 which says, "By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found because God took him up; for he obtained the witness that before his being taken up he was pleasing to God." The New Testament word "taken up" in Hebrews is the same one selected by those who translated the Old Testament into Greek. This word conveys the idea of being removed from one place to another. Thus, it is clear that both the Genesis passage and the thrice-repeated reference to Enoch in Hebrews teaches the idea of translation to heaven.
Elijah
Elijah is often seen as the first and thus representative of Israel’s post-law prophets. He will make some kind of visitation during the tribulation (Malachi 4:5) and was joined with Moses as the two from the past who appeared at Christ’s transfiguration (Matthew 17:3). Like Enoch, Elijah was translated to heaven without dying. 2 Kings 2 records this interesting event with an emphasis upon the mode of Elijah’s transportation to heaven. 2 Kings 2:1 says he was taken "by a whirlwind to heaven." In 2:11 the whirlwind is further described as "a chariot of fire and horses of fire." No doubt this was an appearance of the Shechinah glory of God since Hebrews 1:7 says, "and of the angels He says, ‘Who makes His angels winds, and His ministers a flame of fire.’" God objectively marked Elijah as a genuine prophet by identifying him with the glory of God and his rapture to heaven.
We can see a pattern developing. Enoch was raptured before judgment while Noah remained and was preserved through the judgment. Elijah was raptured while Elisha remained behind. How does this relate to the rapture of the church?
Isaiah
Isaiah was called into the throne room of God (Isaiah 6). Since this was a physical transportation of Isaiah from earth to heaven and back to earth again, it most likely took place via a rapture. Why do I think so?
Old Testament prophets had a varied job description. One of their primary responsibilities was to expound upon and interpret how the nation was doing in reference to the Mosaic Covenant. Israel’s prophets were not social reformers, as some liberals have suggested. Instead, they provided a Divine viewpoint of Israel’s history from the reference point of the sanctions provided in Deuteronomy 28 and Leviticus 26. If the nation kept covenant and obeyed the Lord, then the kinds of blessings promised in Deuteronomy 28:1–14 would "shall come upon you and overtake you" (Deuteronomy 28:2). When Israel’s disobedience would mount, God would call and commission a prophet to remind and warn the nation of their responsibility to obey the terms of their covenant. God, through the prophets, would warn them that if they persisted in rebellion then He would execute the harshest curse provided for in the sanctions—expulsion from the land of Israel (Leviticus 26:27–39; Deuteronomy 28:49–68). When the nation began to reach the point of continued disobedience, God’s prophet would bring a lawsuit against the nation for violation of their contract with God.
It appears in the Old Testament Prophets that God is following the pattern of a certain protocol common in the Ancient World in His dealings with Israel. Understanding this background provides a framework for seeing tremendous significance in events like Isaiah’s call into the throne room of God (Isaiah 6) and Elijah’s "rapture" to heaven via the fiery chariot (2 Kings 2). This supports the notion that Isaiah was raptured to heaven as part of his throne room experience.
Jesus Christ
Revelation 12:5 speaks in the form of a symbol that represents important aspects of the career of Christ. Within this picture, Christ is called the "male child" who it is said "was caught up to God and to His throne (Rev. 12:5). This picture looks back to the ascension of Christ that is described in Acts 1:8-11, where Christ ascends to heaven in a cloud. Thus, because Revelation 12:5 uses the word for rapture, this means that Christ’s Acts 1:11 ascension is view as a rapture, a trip from planet earth to heaven.
Philip
Philip, who was "snatched away" by the Spirit of the Lord after evangelizing the Ethiopian eunuch and "found himself at Azotus" (Acts 8:39–40), which is located in what we call today the Gaza Strip. Philip was not taken to heaven, but was physically transported from the Judean wilderness to the modern-day Gaza Strip area. This is the only example of a rapture in the Bible where the subject is not transported to heaven. Here he is taken from point A to point B upon earth.
Paul
Twice Paul mentions that he was "caught up [raptured] to the third heaven" and received "visions and revelations of the Lord" (2 Corinthians 12:1–4). Paul’s heavenly trip reminds us of Isaiah’s throne room commission (Isaiah 6:1–13). Perhaps a rapture was involved in this incident. Paul, via rapture, received a commission, message, and revelation that became the foundation for the unique purpose for the church during this age, "which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit" (Ephesians 3:5). Apparently, Paul’s heavenly visit was such a heady experience, the Lord gave him "a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me—to keep me from exalting myself! (2 Corinthians 12:7).
Rapture of The Church
This is the most well known rapture in the Bible to the average Christian. 1 Thessalonians 4:17 says, "we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Of all the raptures in the Bible, this is the first time that our Lord will take a large group to heaven in a single instance, without first facing death. This is such a clear teaching in the Bible that even those Christians who do not emphasize the rapture as a distinct event, merge it into to the second coming in some way. Yet, this is the event that will take place before the seven-year tribulation.
Two Witnesses
Reminiscent of Elijah, the two witnesses during the tribulation are summoned "into heaven in the cloud" (Revelation 11:12). Certainly these special Divinely commissioned and protected messengers fulfill the role as ambassadors for our Lord to the Jewish nation during the tribulation. Along the same line, the "male child" is said to be "caught up [raptured] to God and His throne" in Revelation 12:5.
The Bible provides us with seven citations of the rapture of individuals throughout history. This provides a strong support that a group—the church—will be raptured in the future as 1 Thessalonians 4 teaches. Some opponents of the rapture seek to suggest that the worldwide disappearance of millions would be too odd to consider as a realistic possibility. Such is not the case if the Bible is the criterion for establishing possibilities. In fact, the Bible reveals a significant number of raptures or trips directly to heaven that provides assurance that God can and will take millions at one moment in time. Are you ready for the rapture?
Types
1 Corinthians 10:11, speaking of some Old Testament events says, "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, . . ." The word "example" is from the Greek word tupos, which means "form, figure, or pattern." The English word "type" is developed from the Greek word and provides the basis for why Bible students coined the term "typology." Typology refers to Old Testament patterns that illustrate doctrine—usually New Testament doctrine. It is wrong to teach a doctrine from a type. Types serve only to illustrate a doctrine that is taught clearly, or directly from the biblical text.
Old Testament raptures, while not teaching the New Testament truth of the rapture of the church, do provide us with Old Testament types, patterns, or illustrations of the rapture. Thus, Enoch and Elijah stand as types of the rapture of the church. I believe that the purpose for both Old Testament and New Testament raptures come into clearer focus when seen within the framework of the covenantal protocol of recalling one’s ambassador from a distant land.
Ambassadors for Christ
Paul describes New Testament believers as "ambassadors for Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:20). As I have noted earlier, an ambassador is one who represents a dignitary, often in a foreign land. Corresponding with Isaiah’s commission in the Old Testament, the church has been given its Great Commission through Christ’s apostles (Matthew 28:16–20; Mark 16:14–18; Luke 24:44–49; Acts 1:6–10). This commission includes the command to preach the gospel throughout the world until the end of the current age. Instead of just a local responsibility, as with Israel in the Old Testament, the New Testament church has a global responsibility as Christ’s ambassadors to entreat and beg humanity to "be reconciled to God" (2 Corinthians 5:20). Paul ask the Ephesians church to pray for him "that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel, for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak" (Ephesians 6:19–20). The primary issue during the current church age between God and all mankind is the issue of belief in the gospel of Jesus Christ. When, in God’s estimation, the world reaches the point of global rejection of Christ, then, as with Israel before her global deportation, God will recall His ambassador—the church—before the judgment of the tribulation. Since the church is described as heavenly citizens (Philippians 3:20), it makes sense that she is raptured before God’s war commences against "those who dwell upon the earth" (Revelation 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 12:12; 13:8, 14; 14:6). This is one of many purposes for the New Testament doctrine of the pre-tribulational rapture of the church.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
wildbill
you ask me to explain the who "he" that letteth was and i did..
So read and learn sir!
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
Brother Bill (WILDB) states:
quote:
Careful Barry and please do tell all who you think
the He is in this verse and try not to let the Elizabethan tongue confuse you.
"he who now letteth will let"
and why when this "He" is no longer there that
the wicked Whom/Him can be revealed?
Stop promoting the shadow as the way.
AND PLEASE!
Do learn how to rightfully divide according to the mystery and dispensation of Grace committed to Paul by Christ.
The Restrainer:
A Refutation of The Rapture Doctrine Teaching On
2Thessalonians 2:7
by Randy Maugans
Monday, November 30, 2009
Alan Horvath's Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ELApSSiKEQ&feature=autofb
on 2 Thessalonians 2:7---The Holy Spirit As the Restrainer
In a series of exchanges with a teacher of the pre-trib rapture doctrine, Alan Horvath, I presented the
following survey of scriptures which clearly identify the identity of the “restrainer”, the one who
letteth as Michael the Archangel---NOT the Holy Spirit, who is the third person of the Godhead.
To the end of at least addressing the points I raised, I will respond in a limited fashion to onoint
issues based on scripture. Rather than attack the rapture doctrine, I would prefer to
challenge the assumption---made by you, as well as most rapture teachers, that the Holy Spirit
is this "restrainer", i.e.-the one who holds back. I use restrainer as it is the closest English word
applicable to the context.
I will start by saying that this particular chapter of 2Thessolonians contains statements which
lack direct corroboration in other scriptures---Paul here mentions previous teachings when he
was in Thessalonica, and for which there is no real documentation---as in verse 5: "Remember
ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"
For this we lack any direct
attribution so we must carefully limit the text to information available. For this reason, I do not
think we can establish doctrine from just this letter of Paul without a wider scriptural underpinning.
That Paul taught who/what this restrainer/witholder is, is clear, but it is not elaborated
on in any other Pauline writings directly, to my knowledge.
As such, we need to establish doctrine on the identity of the restrainer directly from other
scriptures which are more direct. This is Biblical: doctrine is established by two or more
"witnesses" (scripture). Absent direct attribution we really must not insert any other
"understandings".
NIV reads:
5Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you
know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.7For the secret
power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do
so till he is taken out of the way.
AV reads:
2Thess. 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will
let], until he be taken out of the way.
As to this first question: verse 7 refers to the mystery of iniquity (anomia), a/k/a-antichrist and
by inference, the above mentioned "restrainer".
Now I have to ask: WHERE in scripture is the
Holy Spirit seen as this one who "holds back"?
The word 'katecho' is a verb in the lexicon based on Thayer's and Smith's Bible Dictionary, and
the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance which are keyed to the large Kittel and the "Theological
Dictionary of the New Testament":
kat-ekh'-o - Verb -Definition: to hold back, detain, retain from going away, to restrain, hinder
(the course or progress of), that which hinders antichrist from making his appearance;
to check a ship's headway i.e. to hold or head the ship, to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm
possession of to get possession of, take to possess.
This word is used in 19 verses in the NT and translated variously as: seize (Mat, 21:38), stayed
(Luke 4:42), keep (Luke 8:15), take (Luke 14:9), had (John 5:4) made (Acts 27:20), hold or
held (Romans 1:18 and 7:6), possessed or keep (1Cor. 11:2, 15:2 and 2Cor. 6:10) ), hold fast
(1Thess. 5:21, Hebrews 3:6, 3:14, 10:23), withhold, let (2Thess. 2:6,7), retain(ed) (Philemon
1:3).
Young's Literal Translation of 2Thessoloni 2:6 says: "and now, what is keeping down ye
have known, for his being revealed in his own time,
7 for the secret of the lawlessness doth
already work, only he who is keeping down now will hinder --till he may be out of the way,"
The application of this word in the context of
2Thess. 2:7 indicates a battle or state of war,
would it not? In your own post on this subject you so state:
“This is a major point for me:
In Matthew 16:18 Jesus tells Peter that the gates of hell shall not prevail against
His Church, while in Revelation 13:7 and Daniel 7:21, Satan makes war with the
saints and prevails over them. Again, there is an obvious difference between
Church and saints: the saints will be prevailed over, during the Great Tribulation;
the Church will not be prevailed over, being in Heaven during the Great
Tribulation.”
So this is warfare. We agree. We disagree with the artificial division of this “Church” from the
“saints”---I will comment on that later. I will add this verse:
Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on
my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool .
While YAHWEH states He is a man of war, that HE will "make thine enemies thy footstool", and
many other triumphal statements, DOES HE, personally do battle? I preface that by stating: the
Holy Ghost/Christ/The Father (YAHWEW) are ONE (John 10:30).
So WHO does fight YAHWEH's battles:
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden
Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
(this sounds literally like a "restraining", in fact the Hebrew word, haphak used here is an exact
rendering of just such an action)
Numbers 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the
LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and
fell flat on his face.
Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and
trouble, by sending evil angels among them.50 He made a way to his anger; he spared not
their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence... (NOTE: the word 'evil' here
does NOT mean 'fallen'---it means with evil intent, as in fierce.)
Psalm 104:4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his
kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity
And here are, I believe, the KEY verses to the identity of the restrainer:
Rev. 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon;
and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,
which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out
with him.
We now have an identity---tied directly o the end times battle---a battle of angels, headed by a
being named Michael. Is there any additional corroboration for this?
Daniel 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set
thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I
am come for thy words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and
twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there
with the kings of Persia.
Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return
to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.
21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that
holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince. 1{holdeth: Heb. strengtheneth
himself}
1 This word, prince is the Hebrew word rs sar, Strongs Exhaustive Concordance # 8269-from 8323; a
head person (of any rank or class):--captain (that had rule), chief (captain) , general, governor, keeper,
lord, ((-task- ))master, prince(-ipal), ruler, steward.
Jude 1: 9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the
body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
This supplies THREE WITNESSES in scripture (all translations) which provide a clear view of this
great battle in the heavens. Three witnesses as to the ONLY being named in scripture
responsible for RESTRAINING, HOLDING DOWN --- kat-ekh'-o. NOWHERE in scripture is the
Holy Spirit seen in this posture of warfare.
The work of the Holy Spirit is:
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may
abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it
seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in
you...26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he
shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said
unto you.
John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even
the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go
not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And
when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of
sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye
see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged... 13 Howbeit
when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of
himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to
come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had
given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
(this is key: the Holy Spirit directs believers)
I think in this survey I have presented you with solid scripture as to the identity of this one (he)
who restrains/letteth/witholdeth.
The body of evidence as to the restrainer being Michael, the
archangel, is compelling. Likewise, the mission of the Holy Spirit is documented in the verses
noted above. I submit, Alan, that the insertion of the Holy Spirit into 2Thess. 2:7 does not
withstand scriptural scrutiny---it is an insertion by certain Bible teachers into the verse by false
interpretation. As I noted on your most recent FaceBook posting of the YouTube video of
November 26,
2 Thessalonians |
An Important Clarification (and which you apparently deleted):
your study is based upon INTERPRETATION and not EXEGESIS. Your presentation holds
underlying PRESUMPTIONS not evident in the plain rendering of the texts, regardless of
translation.
I will note that for this discussion the subject of the (pretrib?) rapture is not necessary. But by
divorcing this false assertion that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer; that HE is "removed" (taken
out of the way) from the text of 2Thess. 2, other assertions made by you and other prominent
rapture teachers become more tenuous.
The notion that the "Church" (what 's up with the capital letter/proper name?
Not in scripture.)
is the Holy Spirit's presence would be fine if someone could tell me WHO is this "Church". The
word rendered as "church" in the scriptures is ecclesia ---this ecclesia (called out ones) is seen
throughout the entire book of Revelation! Your assertion of a distinction between believers and
this mystical "Church" has no corollary in scripture.
The term church means the believers:
ekklesia-a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation
(Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):--
assembly, church.
The church is simply a term for the believers, corporate or singular; equal to the temple in the
NT which Paul noted:
1Cor. 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in
you?
Sorry, many of the arguments offered by pre-tribulation rapture teachers are specious:
inventions by men like Chuck Missler and based on false teachings of Darby, Scofield, and
Moody.
The harpazo is likewise real, but separating it from the 7th trumpet resurrection is
another invention.
Alan, you said you are willing to be shown the truth in scripture. The above
study is independent of MY personal view. I did the same study, and more like it based on
some simple facts: I DON'T KNOW, I'M NOT THAT SMART, and I DON"T TRUST MAN to teach
me.
Inserting the Holy Spirit into 2Thess 2:7---without any corroborative texts is an act of "adding
to" the Word of God. It is NOT plainly written as such. As I've shown, IF you just read what
scripture says and properly represent those written facts WITHOUT prejudice the picture is
more clear than the elaborate web-spinning of the convoluted, self-referential "rapture"
doctrine.
Forget the rapture.
Just take the scriptures and search out the contexts absent any
bias. The truth will present itself and no man need show you.
I do not wish to dishonor you, or to be rancorous. But I hear many of the same tired,
convoluted language used in rhetorical speakers of all stripes---notably the propagandists of
Marxism. Jargon-laden inventions of language divorced from context.
I have debated
theologians and scholars on this. WHEN they abandon their rhetoric and adhere to solid,
context-rooted expounding of doctrine, their arguments whither away.
I find agreement with you, and great truth in your other teachings, so this is not a broadside. I
find myself grieved by the specific teaching noted above as many believers lack the ability to
rightly divide scripture. To the end of truth I pose to you this most puzzling contradiction.
In Christ,
Randy Maugans-The Threshing Floor
http://threshngfloor-radio.com
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Barry,
Give it up, man. You are not going to convince us that the pre-trib rapture is false. Most of us have done far too many studies on the the end times, to be mislead by the false teaching you are pushing. Have some dignity and count your loses. Stop trying to force your cult beliefs on us. It is not going to work and you are just upsetting yourself.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
The False Pre-Tribulation Doctrine teaches you NOT to believe what Jesus himself taught!
(John 8:51 KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
(Matthew 13:24-30 KJV) Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: {25} But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. {26} But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. {27} So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? {28} He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? {29} But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. {30} Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
(Matthew 24:29-31 KJV) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: {30} And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. {31} And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
(Luke 17:26-30 KJV) And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. {27} They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. {28} Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; {29} But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. {30} Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
(John 17:15 KJV) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
(John 17:20 KJV) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(Mark 8:38 KJV) Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
The False Pre-Trib Doctrine does not teach what the Bible really says ! Jesus has to remain with Father God until the restitution of all things or the Day of the Lord.
(Psalms 110:1 KJV) A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
(Acts 3:19-21 KJV) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; {20} And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: {21} Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
(Proverbs 2:21-22 KJV) For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it. {22} But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.
(Proverbs 10:30 KJV) The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.
The False Pre-Tribulation Doctrine can cause you to fall because you will not have been taught to have the strong faith you will need to overcome what is coming upon our world.
(Mark 13:11-27 KJV) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. {12} Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death. {13} And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {14} But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: {15} And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: {16} And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. {17} But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give **** in those days! {18} And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. {19} For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. {20} And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. {21} And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: {22} For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. {23} But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. {24} But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, {25} And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. {26} And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. {27} And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 KJV) Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, {2} That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. {3} Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; {4} Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
You can't fall away unless you have already been a part of something! The man of Sin, the Anti-christ, must be revealed before Jesus returns!
(2 Peter 3:3-14 KJV) Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, {4} And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. {5} For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: {6} Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: {7} But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. {8} But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. {9} The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. {10} But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. {11} Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, {12} Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? {13} Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. {14} Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
The Lord has given us plenty of time to repent and accept Him. The day He returns will not be a quiet secret "rapture" !
Are you going to believe what Jesus and the Bible says or are you going to follow after the False Pre-Tribulation Rapture teaching?
(John 12:48 KJV) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
How serious is believing in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine?
(Revelation 1:1-3 KJV) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: {2} Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. {3} Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
The word 'prophecy' means from the Greek language:
4394. propheteia, prof-ay-ti'-ah; from G4396 ("prophecy"); prediction (scriptural or other):--prophecy, prophesying.
It is the same word that is used in the last of the Book of Revelation.
(Revelation 22:18-21 KJV) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: {19} And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. {20} He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. {21} The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
When the book of Revelation was circulated in the early church, it was seen as a separate book from the rest of the writings and was not in the form as we see it now combined with the rest of the written word. When it speaks of the "words of prophecy of this book", it is speaking of the Book of Revelation alone. Of course it would not be pleasing to God to 'add to' or 'take away' from any part of the Bible, but in this case, it could cause your name to be taken out of the book of life, and to have the plagues in the book of Revelation to be added unto you, and you could not enter into the holy city or receive any of the blessings that God has provided for his children. This is how serious it is to believe the false Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine!
We plead with you to pray about what you believe and ask God to remove any preconceived man-made teachings from your mind as you re-read His word so that God can reveal His truth to you.
Jesus is coming back. Are you ready?
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
Leaving Behind the Doctrine of the Pre-tribulational "Rapture"
Modern day dispensationalism, with its belief in two peoples of God (the Church and the modern secular nation-state of Israel) and a pretribulational rapture may be extremely popular amongst conservative Protestants today, but historically it was never a considered eschatological position in any major branch of Christianity. Indeed, there is little if any evidence that it was ever articulated before 1830 when it was popularized by John Darby and later by C.I. Scofield (who not only wrote the Scofield Reference Bible, but was also a convicted criminal who deserted his first wife and children after he was saved). Many Evangelicals and fundamentalists are shocked to even learn that there are different points of view regarding the End-Times in regards to the rapture of the church.
The word rapture is never used in the Scriptures, but dispensationalists claim that the concept is indeed found abundantly throughout its pages. Fair enough, since the same is true of the doctrine of the Trinity, which is indeed implicit from a variety of Scriptural verses (Mark 12: 35-37; Matthew 28:19, John 1:1, John 20:28; Acts 5: 3-4; Colossians 1:15-20, 2:9; Philippians 2:5-11; Revelation 22:13, etc, etc). Indeed, contrary to the claims of Jehovahs Witnesses, Unitarians, Muslims, and the like, there is a great deal of Scriptural evidence to flesh out the doctrine of the Trinity. Certainly then, the doctrine of the rapture, should offer similarly compelling evidence since it is such an important doctrine to so many conservative Protestants. Indeed, many pretribulationists consider their position to be so airtight that they label any dissenter of the rapture doctrine as a false teacher. Well then, lets examine the evidence.
There are several passages that rapture proponents point towards to prove their case and unfortunately for them, the text is not saying what they want it to say. A favorite passage is found in Matthew 24:37-41 which reads:
As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in those days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a mill, one will be taken and the other left (NIV).
The key here is verses 40 and 41which talk about people being taken away. Here is clear cut proof of the Messiah coming at an unexpected time to take away believers up to heaven before the tribulation period, right? Well, not if context means anything. Here Jesus is comparing his future coming to the time of the Flood. Notice in verse 39, right before the supposed rapture imagery, who is taken away in the Noah example? Those who were taken away were the evil people who were destroyed by the flood, the same people who were not waiting for the Flood or listening to Noah. Next, Jesus compares it to His future coming and uses this same imagery of people being taken away. Does “taken” mean one thing in verse 39 and a totally different thing in verse 40? That makes no sense, especially if we are considering that Jesus is making an analogy, which by their nature compare similarities. Rather than seeing those taken at the time of Christ’s coming as people being zipped up to heaven in a pretribulational rapture, the context of this passage suggests those who are taken away are those who are not prepared for Christs coming and are being taken to judgment.
Perhaps the verse for the believers in a pretribulational rapture is I Thessalonians 4:13-18. It reads as follows:
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who have fallen asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lords own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words (NIV).
According to those who believe in the secret rapture, this verse is a clear cut proof that Jesus is going to take believers out of the earth before the tribulation period. But where exactly does this passage say that? Grab a Bible and read the surrounding context of the passage. Where is there any discussion about a tribulation or removing believers secretly before an interval of judgment for everybody Left Behind? If anything vv 16-17 in this passage indicate that this coming of the Lord will be a visible event. Nothing in this passage even says anything about believers being zipped up into heaven for seven years. Verse 16 indicates that Christ is coming down from heaven, and that believers would meet Christ in the air. The concept in antiquity of the honored guests greeting the king midway as he was traveling to the banquet and the guests escorting him the rest of the way would have been well understood by the original audience. The same concept and Greek terminology can be found in a letter from Cicero in 49B.C. in which he speaks of the welcoming of Julius Caesar (with the same language found later towards Caesar Augustus) as he toured Italy [1].
Furthermore, the air was considered to be the realm of demons and if Ephesians 2:2 and Colossians 2:15 are any parallel; the stress here would be on Christ breaking their power. This takes place as Christ is returning to earth, which is also described as happening in a visible, not invisible manner elsewhere in Scripture (Acts 1:11). There is no hint that Christ is returning back to heaven after secretly taking believers from the earth before a seven-year tribulation period (The length of a seven year tribulation is only based on one verse, Daniel 9:27, which incorrectly posits a massive 2,000+ year gap between the 26th and 27th verse. This forces verse 27 to be talking about something different than verse 26, even though the context and grammar of the passage does not allow this).
Pretribulationists claim that this isn’t a reference to the Second Coming, but distinguish this being Christ coming for His saints, and the real Second Coming where Christ comes with His saints. However, this two stage end-times return of Jesus is not present in this passage or anywhere else in the NT corpus.
Note that 2 Thessalonians was written to correct the excessive excitement and speculation amongst the original audience, who upon reading 1 Thessalonians were teaching that the return of Christ had already occurred. Paul writes that before Christ’s coming, certain events needed to happen, namely “the rebellion” and the arrival of “the man of lawlessness,” assuming these to be future events from our vantage points in 2006. Most importantly in the beginning of this passage, Paul links the gathering of the believers with the Second Coming, not a prior secret “rapture”:
“Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us saying that the day of the Lord has already come” (2 Thessalonians 2:1-2).
In I Corinthians 15, the apostle Paul takes up a lengthy discussion about the resurrection of the dead and the resurrection body. Many see the “rapture” in vv.51-52 where Christians will be transformed “in the twinkling of an eye.” However, the passage nowhere states directly or indirectly that this is referring to believers removed before a tribulation period. The rapture can only be found in this text if it is assumed and inserted there. The context is talking about the resurrection of believers that would happen at the time of the general bodily resurrection of believers. In this verse, like several others, pretribulationists must insist that a secret rapture is in question and not the general Second Coming/resurrection of the saints.
The book of Revelation also says nothing about a two-stage return of Jesus. The passages usually thought to do so will now be examined.
Revelation 3:10 is perhaps my favorite pretribulational rapture proof text. It is in a section of Revelation (Chapters 2-3) where Christ addresses seven historical churches of the first century where he admonishes and encourages each church. This particular passage in addressed to the church of Philadelphia. The verse reads as follows:
Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth (NIV).
Many dispensationalists have a very peculiar way of interpreting Revelation 2 and 3. According to many the seven churches may or may not have been real historical churches, but the primary thrust of the passage is supposedly giving a prophetic picture of the church throughout the ages. In this interpretive scheme, the early church of the first century is the church in Ephesus and gets progressively worse until today, where we are now living in or are on the verge of living in the age of the lukewarm church of Laodecia. Various dispensational sources will give you their estimate of what time period correlates to which of the seven churches in Revelation.). The only problem with all this is that it is terribly subjective and is based mainly and seeing the church through a Western lens. For instance, there are plenty of churches in persecuted lands today that are not Laodicean churches, just as there were plenty of churches in early Christendom that could be said to have reflected any of the seven churches. I don’t think I would consider the thriving persecuted church today in China as lukewarm. Nor would I consider many Spirit-led Western churches to be classified as such. It is best to instead see these as seven historical churches of the 1st century that can find application or correlation with many congregations throughout the current church age.
Remember, Revelation was written either in the mid 60s or mid 90s and must be relevant to the people it was addressed to. Revelation is addressed to these seven churches (Rev. 1:4) and is going to be written at least in part about issues that will immediately concern them. Revelation should not be wrenched from its historical context and be seen as a solely futuristic document that only concerns 20th and 21st century Christians. So while there has been great application in chapters 2 and 3 for the Church throughout the ages (and these chapters make great preaching material today), it is a mistake to say that these chapters are primarily referential to various normative stages in church history.
If such is the case, how then could Revelation 3:10 be talking about a pretribulational rapture since we are already past that stage in church history (if we believe that chapters 2 and 3 are primarily revealing progressive stages of church history)? If we are now in the Laodecian era, then apparently a bunch of us missed the rapture! It rather makes more sense to view 3:10 in light of the historical circumstances of that day and the hour of trouble that the church was going to face under imperial Roman persecution. Even if 3:10 is speaking secondarily beyond the immediate historical circumstances and hinting towards final end-times events, which is possible, there still is no warrant to see this passage referring to a secret invisible rapture.
There is nothing said in this passage about secretly removing Christians from the earth, rather it stresses Gods protection of believers from His judgments on the ungodly. This should be distinguished, however, from the persecution inflicted upon the righteous by the unfaithful (Revelation 2:10, 7:14). Regarding Revelation and tribulation there is a “great tribulation” described in 7:14 that is probably referring to the full number of Christians (or Christian martyrs) throughout history enduring through the tribulation period. But even if this passage is solely regulated to a period of time in the future, notice that the multitude comes out of the “great tribulation,” they do not escape it. There is nothing in this text here to suggest that the saints escape the great tribulation. According to New Testament scholar Craig Keener, “They have endured the dramatic end-time Tribulation and proved faithful to death.”
Revelation 4:1 forms a new unit in Revelation and is also seen as a pivotal verse to believers in a pretribulational rapture. To some, this is supposedly John’s own personal rapture described in this new section of Revelation where John goes up to heaven and gets a tour before the next section begins (the next section starting in chapter 6 which begins a section supposedly referring to exclusively distant future judgments during the tribulation period according to dispensationalists). John sets a pattern for our own rapture, or at least supposedly so.
A close reading of the text, however, does not agree with the above interpretation. The John who is writing this book is functioning as a prophet and the style of this literature is apocalyptic, meaning the imagery is highly symbolic in many respects (all apocalyptic literature involves the use symbolism and the use of bizarre and even frightening imagery to convey to readers the unfolding of generally unknown matters). What John sees here cannot be said to be a literal description of the inhabitants of heaven as he is clearly also borrowing from Old Testament imagery and applying it accordingly. Compare the differences between John’s vision in chapter four and Ezekiel in Ezekiel 1. After John is told to come up here (to heaven) we are told that he is in the Spirit and once he is in the Spirit, he begins his heavenly vision. Therefore, a physical ascent up to heaven is probably not what is being talked about here, but rather an ecstatic vision in apocalyptic language which then sets up for the succeeding imagery in chapters five and six.
(Far from being liberal with the text, it is instead simply a matter of interpreting this particular genre of literature as it is meant to be interpreted. Many interpreters of Revelation think they are being faithful to the Biblical text by interpreting apocalyptic symbols in a literal fashion, and see any elements of non-literal interpretation as watering down Gods word. But when the language is as metaphorical and symbolic as we have in Revelation, what is often meant to be conveyed is not literal images. The figurative language, however, is used to convey very real and literal messages! Besides, dispensationalists are hardly literal with their interpretations unless they really want to argue that the antichrist is a scarlet monster with seven heads and seven horns, that Satan is really a big red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, that Satan has a literal tail that is going to literally fling a third of the stars in space down to earth, that Jesus is going to have a literal sword come form out his mouth, etc, etc.)
The idea that John experiences his own rapture which sets the stage for a later Christian rapture is necessary for the next argument. It is argued that since the word church is not used again in Revelation until 22:16, the church will not be present on earth during the judgments described in chapters 6 onward. This assumes several things: (1) John is only describing events in the far distant future which have nothing to do with his contemporaries to whom he is writing, or to Christians throughout the general church age (2) That John’s rapture in 4:1 sets the stage for the Church’s own rapture before these future judgments begin (or, if 4:1 was not a description of Johns rapture as some dispensationalists admit, it is still presupposed that the church is raptured before the judgments begin), and (3) all references to the saints (i.e. Christians) in chapters five through nineteen are only a reference to Tribulation Saints who convert to Christianity after the church has been raptured during the tribulation period.
To assume that the saints mentioned throughout the middle of Revelation (see 6:9, all of chapter 7, the saints of chapter 14, etc) are only people who have converted after the rapture is just a faulty presupposition coupled with circular reasoning. The thinking goes, “Well, of course those saints only converted after the rapture happened because we know the rapture happens before the tribulation.” Based on what? If it’s the above Biblical evidence, then there is no reason to assume that these are just converted “Tribulation Saints” and that prior to this tribulation period all true Christians were removed from the earth. So while the word Church isn’t used in the middle of Revelation, it really makes no difference, because the saints who make up the church are clearly present all throughout Revelation. The only way to conclude that earlier Christians were raptured away before the judgments and persecutions is to make grand assumptions from very flimsy evidence and circular reasoning.
Other reasons trotted out in support of a secret rapture before the real Second Coming are just as questionable. I’ve heard arguments like, “Just like God protected His faithful in the past, He will do so in the future.” Noah is usually the prime example used. Well, its true that in earlier Scriptures that God doesn’t rain down His punishment on the righteous as he does with the unrighteous (such as the unfaithful people during Noah’s day, Sodom and Gomorrah, etc), also keep in mind that the Church has never been given a pass from human persecution and martyrdom. In fact, the Church has always been a martyr Church. All one needs to do is read the Book of Acts and know a little bit about Church history. Why should we assume a future generation will be any different? Rather, the Left Behind theology appears more to be unwarranted escapism from the realities set before the Church to endure hardship.
There is much more that can be said about problems with an invisible rapture of the Church before a visible coming of Jesus. I’ll explore some other practical logical absurdities in the near future. But dispensationalism’s excesses span beyond just the rapture. There are many problems with their overall misunderstanding of prophecy, both in the Old and New Testaments, their belief in two separate programs for the Church and Israel, and even some of their strange ideas of performing animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple during Christ’s millennial reign (have they read the book of Hebrews?!). Also, their overall beliefs on these issues affect their political beliefs in the present day which lead to some dispensationalists basically opposing any sort of peace for the Middle East, lest the rapture be delayed. This is very troublesome and needs to be refuted. Not only that, it does not agree with Jesus command to be peacemakers and good stewards of the earth.
None of this suggests that dispensationalists on a whole are bad people. Many of my Christian friends are dispensationalists and are very good people and good Christians; I just think they are wrong on these end-times issues. Rather than dispensationalists and non-dispensationalists declaring each other anathema, all sides in this eschatological debate should continue arguing and airing their views. It has great implications for the Christian’s theology and even political beliefs. More importantly, denominations should not be making the issue of the rapture a central tenet of their theology, especially pretribulationalists who are resting their case on such little evidence.
Finally, rather than thinking of ways to ignore the world, Christians of all stripes should continue thinking of how to have maximum impact while they are here. Even those like myself who are in the non-dispensational wing of premillennialism (historical premillennialism) need to beware of escapist or abandonment type thinking in our relationship to the world. The ultimate goal of Scripture is not an escape from all that is material, ala Gnosticism, but rather a recreation of the heavens and earth (Revelation 21).
Christians do need to be prepared at all times to meet their maker, either because of physical death or the Second Coming, which will come like a thief in the night. But believers would be better served if they put down their elaborate multi-colored prophecy charts and took Christ’s words seriously that no man knows the day or the hour. As long as any of us are here on earth, we have responsibilities and a life in the here and now before us.
We ought then to make the best of it.
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
|
posted
barrykind
quote:
Why would believers be taken off the planet in the so-called Pre-Trib Rapture so that they would not have to face the horrors of the “Great Tribulation” period, when so many other Christians have faced HORRIBLE persecution and tribulation throughout Church history?
Facing tribulations, as our Lord Jesus Christ said we would, is NOT the same as THE Tribulation. Those seven years will be worse than anything the world has ever seen.
How many of your Christian friends have been martyred for their faith? Is it horribly unfair that we were born in America where we have been allowed to practice our faith without persecution while people in other parts of the world were not so fortunate? Then how does it logically follow that we MUST go through the tribulation because others have suffered? The rapture and the tribulation may not even happen during our lifetimes. Then what? Will you be doomed barry because you didn't suffer enough?
We are not saved by trials and tribulations, but by Christ.
God's Purpose for the Tribulation
This excerpt taken from an article written by Dr. Thomas Ice at the Pre-Trib Research Center.
A common statement made by some is as follows: "I believe that the church will go through the tribulation because the Bible says that we will suffer for our faith." The problem with such a statement is that while it may appear to have the veneer of biblical correctness, at core it betrays a lack of understanding of God's purpose for the tribulation. Certainly the Bible teaches that all through out the church age Believers will suffer persecution. This is taught by such passages as John 16:33b, "In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world." And in 2 Timothy 3:12 "Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted." The question is will the church experience the trials of the tribulation? I have found that when a person is knowledgeable of what the Bible says is God's purpose for the tribulation, or any issue for that matter, then a very high percentage of those people will come to believe that the church will be taken in the rapture before the tribulation. What is God's purpose for the tribulation?
Start Of The Tribulation
First, we need to know that the tribulation in Bible prophecy is the period of time that begins with the signing of a covenant between Israel and the antichrist and ends seven years later at the second coming of Jesus Christ. The most extensive biblical comments on the tribulation are found in the writings of John, specifically in Revelation 6-19. In these chapters, John provides a detailed exposition of the tribulation days. Daniel's "70 weeks," prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27 are the framework within which the tribulation or the 70th week occurs. The seven-year period of Daniel's 70th week provides the time span with which a whole host of descriptives are associated. Some of those descriptive terms include: tribulation, great tribulation, day of the Lord, day of wrath, day of distress, day of trouble, time of Jacob's trouble, day of darkness and gloom, and wrath of the Lamb.
Judgment Nature Of The Tribulation
Second, God's basic purpose for the tribulation is that it be a time of judgment, while at the same time, He will hold forth the gospel of grace. This will precede Christ's glorious 1,000 year reign from David's throne in Jerusalem. Judgment, or God's wrath, is needed to put down the rebellion of mankind in preparation for Christ's reign of peace upon earth during the millennium.
The Goals Of The Tribulation
Third, while a number of goals for the tribulation could be given, there are a least three specific major purposes. Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum lists them as follows:
Gentile Judgment
Before the Lord can personally rule on earth in the Person of Jesus Christ He must first judge the world in order to prepare it for His righteous rule. Dr. Fruchtenbaum says that the first purpose for the tribulation is,
To make an end of wickedness and wicked ones (Isaiah 13:9; 24:19-20)-The first purpose for the tribulation is seen to be a punishment in history upon the whole world for its sins against God, in a way similar to that of the global flood in Noah's days (Matthew 24:37-39).[1]
Deuteronomy 30:7 tells us that God will "inflict all these curses on your enemies and on those who hate you, who persecuted you." This will take place during the tribulation and will be retribution to the nations for how they have treated the Jews during the last 2,000 years. This purpose does not encompass the church.
World-Wide Evangelism
The seven-year tribulation will be a time of phenomenal evangelistic outreach. It will be a time unlike any previous period of history. Dr. Fruchtenbaum explains:
To bring about a world-wide revival-This purpose is given and fulfilled in Revelation 7:1-17. During the first half of the tribulation, God will evangelize the world by the means of the 144,000 Jews and thus fulfill the prophecy found in Matthew 24:14.[2]
In addition to the 144,000 Jewish evangelists, there will be normal evangelism taking place like we see today. Further, the Two Witnesses will provide an evangelistic witness to Israel. Finally, at the mid-point of the tribulation Revelation 14 tells us that God Himself will use angels to preach the gospel and warn "earth dwellers" not to take the mark of the beast-666.
The three angelic announcements are as follows: First, an angel will preach "an eternal gospel . . . to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people" (Revelation 14:6). Second, the next angel will make the following pronouncement: "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality" (Revelation 14:8). Finally, the last angelic proclamation will specifically warn every person on earth not to take the mark of the beast, since doing so will result in their eternal punishment in the Lake of Fire. "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand . . . he will be tormented with fire and brimstone . . . forever and ever" (Revelation 14:9-11). This tribulation purpose also does not include the church.
Conversion of Israel
One of the most glorious and important purposes of the tribulation will be the conversion of Israel. Dr. Fruchtenbaum tell us,
To break the power of the holy people-Israel-Finally, the tribulation will be a time in which God, through evil agencies, prepares Israel for her conversion and acknowledgment that Jesus is their Messiah, resulting in the second coming of Christ.[3]
The Bible teaches us that God will use the tribulation to bring His elect people to faith in Jesus as their Messiah. When we put together the biblical information it appears that God will accomplish this goal in the following way: First, the Lord will return Israel to the land before the tribulation, the time of God's wrath. "I shall bring you out from the peoples and gather you from the lands where you are scattered, with a mighty hand and with an outstretched arm and with wrath poured out (Ezekiel 20:34). The regathering before the tribulation is what our Lord has been doing since 1948 with the modern state of Israel.
Once the tribulation begins He "shall make you pass under the rod, and I shall bring you into the bond of the covenant; and I shall purge from you the rebels and those who transgress against Me; I shall bring them out of the land where they sojourn, but they will not enter the land of Israel. Thus you will know that I am the Lord" (Ezekiel 20:37-38). This tells us that the unbelieving Jews ("the rebels") will be removed during the tribulation.
In an interesting passage that speaks of "My Associate," which is an obvious prophetic reference to Jesus The Messiah (Zechariah 13:7-9), Zechariah gives us a numeric ratio that will be purged. "And it will come about in all the land," Declares the Lord, "That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The Lord is my God.'" (Zechariah 13:8-9) Therefore, we learn that two-thirds of Israel will be purged through the fire of the tribulation, leaving the one-third elect who will be converted to Jesus as their Messiah. Thus, "all Israel will be saved; just as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, He will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins'" (Romans 11:26-27). What a glorious day that will be! Israel will be converted to Jesus as their Messiah resulting in the second coming, which will in turn give rise the millennial reign of Christ. The church is no where to be found in these tribulational activities.
Conclusion
While many people think the tribulation will involve the church, the Bible does not provide support for such a notion. Instead, Scripture informs us of at least a three-fold purpose for the coming tribulation, none of which involves the church. The New Testament teaches that the church will be taken at the rapture to be with the Lord before the tribulation begins, because God has not destined His bride for His wrath (Romans 5:9; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 5:9; Revelation 3:10). Other groups of redeemed individuals will go through the tribulation, but not Christ's bride, the church.
http://www.biblesitesonline.com/areyouready/tribpurpose.htm
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Brother Bill states:
quote:
The Day of the Lord has nothing to do with the Harpazo..
The falling away will happen after the Spirit is taken out of the way terminating the Age of Grace.
2 Thessalonians, Chapter 2 7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
My oh my, for one who talks much of those who do not study.....
Where have you been man??
DO a study and show yourself approvedsir:
barry
Careful Barry and please do tell all who you think
the He is in this verse and try not to let the Elizabethan tongue confuse you.
"he who now letteth will let"
and why when this "He" is no longer there that
the wicked Whom/Him can be revealed?
Stop promoting the shadow as the way.
AND PLEASE!
Do learn how to rightfully divide according to the mystery and dispensation of Grace committed to Paul by Christ.
Back to the top
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
The Harpazo of the Bride of Christ
Last Updated: 08/23/2010 21:55 |
This is a Bible Study of the catching away of the bride of Christ, the harpazo. In short, it is a supernatural event that comes directly after the resurrection of the dead in Christ in the near future. After their resurrection, those who are still alive and in Christ are changed in the blink of an eye and are given their immortal bodies. Then both the resurrected and the changed are caught up together to meet the Lord in the air. The resurrection of the dead is central to the Christian faith as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 15:12-24.
There are many different perspectives in the church regarding this topic from the denial of it to the belief that it can come at any second. Understanding of the Word of the Lord will not come by quoting one or two verses, but by building on a solid foundation of the Word, taking God for what He says and in context. It is also interspersed throughout the text of the Bible, here a little and there a little. Isaiah 28:9-13 I interpret the Bible with the Bible so that I leave as much of my own errors out of the equation and rather trust in the Word to define for me what must be understood. In this way, symbology is not randomly assigned from a 21st century English perspective, but from a Biblical perspective. The Bible was written by Hebrews for the Hebrews until the work of Christ on the cross brought that Truth to the Gentiles and all with ears to hear. This causes one to view the Bible from a more Hebrew perspective and define words from the Hebrew and Greek for deeper meaning as well as seeing a broader picture of God's plans for the future.
I would also like to say before beginning that I understand this is a very divisive subject for some and much passion is displayed regarding this teaching because of perceived deceptions we are warned about and concern for a falling away from God resulting from things not turning out as expected. As true believers, absolutely nothing can separate us from God. It shows an extreme selfishness and pride for one to turn from God because their perceptions of reality limited by their lack of knowledge not coming to pass as desired. Job was answered by God as to how little we know of the whole picture in Job 38-40. There is One Truth and history will unfold in one way, that which God has laid out for those that love Him to understand from His Word, the Holy Bible. Only He knows the end from the beginning and He has shared the future with us. That is the focus of this Bible study on the harpazo. I believe that if we all trust the Word of God we will be on the same page, speaking the same language as the words haven't changed nor what the words mean. Do not take my word for this or any other study presented. Rather search the scriptures daily to see whether these things are so. Acts 17:11
Lord, guide my study of Your Word and reveal to me through Your Holy Spirit those things You would have me understand. Give me a greater hunger for Your Word as I bring myself closer to you. Teach me your Truth from your Word as I submit to your plans and design. Amen.
What is the "harpazo?"
The term "rapture" is more commonly used than harpazo and is not found in the Bible. While you will not find that exact word through a word search, the meaning of the words that are written remains the same and conveys the same idea. The term "rapture" comes from the Latin verb rapiemur which means "to seize, snatch, carry away." This is the same meaning behind the Greek word that is found in the Bible, harpazo. It is found in the following scripture, which is the "harpazo" passage.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726 harpazo] together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
So while the word rapture is technically not in the Bible, the idea behind that Latin word represents the same idea of being caught up together to meet the Lord in the air as stated in scripture. I have decided to move away from using the term rapture in exchange for sticking with the original Greek word spelled out in English as "shall be caught up."
1 Corinthians 15:51-53
Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Back to the top
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
EXAMINING the TOUGH ISSUES
FACING CHRISTIANS TODAY!
Issue #8 // Originally published: February 24, 2003 // Editor: Darryl Eberhart
(Fifth Update – Massively Expanded Issue: through March 22, 2008)
“RAPTURE TIMING AND DISPENSATIONALISM”
(Originally published as: “Rapture Timing is Important!”)
VERY IMPORTANT COMMENT: If you read only one thing in this newsletter, then PLEASE read the Bible verses and passages in Section II. The sequence of events leading up to the “Rapture” of “end-time” Christians is clearly spelled out in the first four Bible passages listed in that section.
NOTE #1: All emphasis in this newsletter, unless otherwise noted, is by the editor of “Examining the Tough Issues (ETI)” and “Tackling the Tough Topics (TTT)” newsletters. All of my new, as well as updated, articles and newsletters are posted on these three websites: www.toughissues.org, www.pastorbutch.com, and www.gordoncomstock.com. (On the second website, please “click” on the “Tackling the Tough Topics” box in the left-hand column of their homepage. On the third website, at the top of their homepage, please “double click” on the “RESOURCES” box, and then “double click” on the “Tackling the Tough Topics” box. If you would like to print off copies of any of my newsletters and articles, then I would suggest that you print them off from the third website – since they should “print out” best from it.)
NOTE #2: All Bible verses quoted by this editor are taken from the Authorized King James Version (KJV). I have used “italics” for ALL the quotations that I have placed in this newsletter, including those from the Bible. When a KJV Bible verse is quoted in which “italics” were used in the original ONLY for those words supplied by the translators to clarify meanings, such words will still appear in “italics”; however, I have also placed such “KJV translator-supplied words” in BRACKETS, e.g., [the sins of]. Amplifying data that I personally am adding within or before the Bible verse will also be in BRACKETS; however, my amplifying data will NOT be in “italics”, and will be preceded by the abbreviation “Ed.” [for “editor”], e.g., [Ed.: i.e., Jesus Christ]. The reason: Sometimes in sending data electronically [e.g., via E-Mail], the “italics” is lost. In such a case, my added amplifying data [in brackets] could be distinguished from those original KJV italicized words [added by the translators to clarify meanings] by the “Ed.”
NOTE #3: The following abbreviations will be used throughout the text:
(1) “Pre-Trib” = The Pre-Tribulation (Rapture)
(2) “Post-Trib” = The Post-Tribulation (Rapture)
(3) “Pre-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
(4) “Post-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in the Post-Tribulation Rapture.
NOTE #4: The “Pre-Trib Rapture” is but one piece of a larger “prophetic pie” called “Dispensationalism”. According to Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World” (2004; Page 129), Dispensationalism “is the theory that God deals with mankind in distinct periods or ages.” Wohlberg adds, “According to [Ed.: John Nelson] Darby, we’re now in the ‘Church Age’, which will conclude with the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture.” (More information on “Dispensationalism” is given in the “Definitions” section of this newsletter.)
ED. COMMENT added on September 30, 2007: I used to believe in the Pre-Tribulation (Pre-Trib) Rapture for many years. I had read a number of books supporting the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint by men like Hal Lindsay and John Walvoord. However, as I began my study through the entire Holy Bible, I discovered more and more Bible passages that clearly contradicted the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint! I also noticed that the teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture had neutralized MANY Bible-believing Christians whom I had personally met. It “neutralized” them because they used it as an “excuse” for NOT fighting evil! Thus, I decided in 2003 that this was a “tough issue” that needed to be “examined” – even if doing so would disturb some folks’ comfort zones. After all, TRUTH is far more important than any of our “comfort zones”.
ED. COMMENT added on October 14, 2007: Some people will criticize me for being “divisive” because I have written about what they perceive to be a “minor” issue of doctrine – one that they would say is not a “salvation” issue. However, ALL doctrine is important – and if someone is teaching a doctrine that is contradicted by the Holy Bible (as I believe that the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is), and which also neutralizes Christians, then I MUST expose that doctrine.
Ed. Comment added on December 6, 2007: If you believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, then I would ask that you please read this newsletter with an open mind. (Please keep in mind that at one time I too believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture.) Whatever the current prevailing view on any topic is, it may not be correct. Please remember that at one time most people thought that the world was flat! Most of us have, at one time or another, been victims of misinformation and disinformation. We must never forget that one key element of the Jesuit-led Counter-Reformation is to INFILTRATE Protestant and independent, Bible-believing circles in order to “sow” false doctrine and false ideas in order to NEUTRALIZE true Christianity! Please consider the following quotes from the book of Proverbs:
(1) “He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him.” (Proverbs 18:13)
(2) “[He that is] first in his own cause [seemeth] just [Ed.: i.e., right; correct; true]; but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him.” (Proverbs 18:17)
(3) “The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge…” (Proverbs 15:14 a.)
DEFINITIONS (Hopefully in alphabetical order):
NOTE #1: Please carefully read these “definitions” BEFORE reading the rest of this newsletter, since the “definitions” are critical to understanding (a.) the “players” who were involved in concocting and popularizing the Pre-Trib Rapture and, (b.) some of the “terms” that are used within the “dispensationalist camp”.
NOTE #2: I may not necessarily agree totally with every word of every “definition” given by some of the dictionaries and authors quoted within this section; however, what they have stated is given so that the reader of this newsletter can examine two or more “definitions” for some of the “key terms”.
NOTE #3: Bible prophecy is sometimes “layered” (i.e., it may have more than one application). Also, there are clearly “types” shown in the Bible (such as Moses being a “type” of Christ). Therefore, I may not necessarily agree with everything exactly as stated by some of these authors concerning their prophetic viewpoints as found within some of their definitions in this section. I would encourage the readers of this newsletter to prayerfully and carefully study through the entire Bible, and then form their own conclusions about Bible prophecy!
“Anti-” (Per “Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language”): “A preposition signifying ‘against’, ‘opposite’, ‘contrary’, or ‘IN PLACE OF’; used in many English words.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: One should carefully consider the particular meaning “in [the] place of” for the prefix “anti-” as concerns the term “anti-Christ” – i.e., one who sits “in [the] place of” Christ.
“Antichrist” (Per “VINE’S Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words”; 1985): “Antichrist [Greek: antichristos]…can mean either ‘against Christ’ or ‘instead of Christ’, or perhaps, combining the two, ‘one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ’…”
“Antichrist” (Per “Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language”): “A great adversary of Christ; the man of sin; described [in] I John 2:18; II Thessalonians [Chapter] 2; [and] Revelation [Chapter] 9. Protestants generally suppose this adversary to be the Papal power; and some divines [Ed.: i.e., clergymen] believe that, in a more general sense, the word extends to any persons who deny Christ or oppose the fundamental doctrines of Christianity.”
“Antichrist” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 89): “The word ‘antichrist’ literally means ‘opposed to’ or ‘IN THE PLACE OF’ Christ, and in its most subtle and diabolical manifestation it concerns something which [Ed.: or someone who] claims loyalty to Jesus [Christ] while really leading away from Him.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding three definitions: Leading Protestant Reformers (e.g., Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, etc.) agreed that the Roman Pontiff [i.e., the pope of Rome] was clearly identified in Scripture as the “Antichrist”. (Please see my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, which can be viewed on the three Internet websites listed at the beginning of this newsletter.)
“Daniel’s 70th Week” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 96): “Prophecy teachers in our generation definitely apply the day-for-a-year principle to the famous 70th week of Daniel 9:27, which says, ‘And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice…to cease’ (Daniel 9:27 KJV). Based on the day-year truth, this ‘one week’ is really seven years. …Many prophecy scholars today – following the lead of J.N. Darby – have decided to sever this 70th week [of Daniel 9:27] from the first 69 weeks (creating an almost 2000 year gap or parenthesis), slide it down to the end times, and call it ‘the seven years of tribulation’. We have already analyzed the problems with this view, and have proven [that] it was really Jesus Christ who brought an end to the Jewish sacrificial system through His death on the cross. Net conclusion: [Ed.: There is] no seven-year tribulation.” (See also “Seven-Year Period of Tribulation” in this section.)
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: Incredibly, Pre-Trib Rapture teachers and writers take this prophecy in Daniel 9:27, which points to Jesus Christ, and apply it to a “future Antichrist”! As Steve Wohlberg states on page 46 of his book “End Time DELUSIONS” (2004): “After exactly three and a half years of holy ministry, Jesus Christ died on the cross, ‘in the midst of the week [in the middle of the seven years].’ At the exact moment of His death, ‘the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom…’ (Matthew 27:51) This act of God signified that all animal sacrifices at that moment ceased to be of value. Why? Because the Perfect Sacrifice had been offered!”
“Darby, John Nelson” (Per Dr. James M. Dunn, Baptist Joint Committee, Washington, D.C. – his quote is taken from page 35 of the book, “Forcing God’s Hand”, by Grace Halsell; Darby was the founder of the “Plymouth Brethren”:
“…Two men largely were responsible for giving a new interpretation to Scripture, called ‘Dispensationalism’. They said that saved Christians will be Raptured before the Tribulation.
John [Nelson] Darby [Ed.: 1800-1882], a former minister in the Church of England, became an ‘apostle and missionary’ for this dispensationalist belief. After traveling extensively in Europe, he began missionary journeys in the United States. He met with and influenced leaders of the New Bible and Prophecy Conference movement, which set the tone for the evangelical and fundamentalist movements in North America between 1875 and 1920.
Darby had direct contact with and considerable influence on such evangelical leaders as the Presbyterian James Brookes of Philadelphia; Dwight L. Moody of Chicago; the early evangelical author William E. Blackstone; as well as Cyrus Scofield, who published the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’.
Until the mid-1800s and the preaching of Darby and Scofield, no one, whether Catholic or Protestant, had dreamed of an end-time escapism.”
“Darby, John Nelson” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 127, 128): “John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)…[was] a brilliant lawyer, pastor, and theologian. …Darby’s contribution to the development of evangelical theology has been so great [that] he has been called ‘The Father of Modern Dispensationalism’. Yet John Nelson Darby, like [Ed.: Scottish Presbyterian minister] Edward Irving, not only became a champion for the pre-tribulation rapture idea…but also of a future antichrist who appears only after we [Ed.: Christians] disappear [Ed.: in the Pre-Trib Rapture]. Both teachings – a secret [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture and a future Mr. Ghastly [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist] – are now dispensational pillars.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author Dave Macpherson, Darby took his ideas for the “Pre-Trib Rapture” from Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, who had taken at least some of his ideas concerning the “Pre-Trib Rapture” from Scottish lassie Margaret Macdonald.
“Dispensation” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[Ed.: A dispensation is] a time period or epoch, whereby people are judged according to their personal relationship with God.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[Ed.: Dispensationalism is] a belief system that holds, among other things, that the signs of the Second Coming of Christ are clearly spelled out in Scripture and can be identified with current international events. This theology, less than 200 years old, was popularized by [Ed.: British evangelist] John [Nelson] Darby of England and in America by Cyrus Scofield, whose ‘Scofield Reference Bible’ explains that God has special interest in only two peoples: Jews, said to be on an ‘earthly’ track, and Christians on a ‘heavenly’ track.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 128, 129): “Dispensationalism is the theory that God deals with mankind in distinct periods or ages. …[Ed.: These two teachings of] a secret [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture and a future Mr. Ghastly [Ed: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist] are now dispensational pillars.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 23): “…He [Ed.: i.e., British evangelist John Nelson Darby] invented ‘dispensations’ – that is, intervals of time ordering God’s grand timetable for world events. From this expression came ‘Dispensationalism’, a particular system or school of thinking about the end-times reflecting Darby’s premise. According to Darby’s view, God has divided all of human history into seven distinct dispensations, or ages, and during each time God has dealt with people according to a different set of rules. Dispensationalism thus lays out a rigid master plan for all of history.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per James Lloyd, author of “The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 7): “Although the [Ed.: pre-tribulational] rapturist system teaches the error [that] the ‘Church’ will be ‘raptured’ before the tribulation, leaving the Jews to face the Antichrist in the last ‘dispensation’, the systemic error that is Dispensationalism is far broader than just the pre-tribulational rapture. At its most basic level, Dispensationalism divides the ages into contrived time periods, dubbed ‘dispensations’, in which God separates how He deals with Jews and Gentiles.”
“Dispensationalist” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[A dispensationalist is] one who adheres to the belief in seven epochs (dispensations) that must transpire to usher in the Second Coming of Christ.”
“Futurism” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 116): “Futurism is what [Ed.: Spanish JESUIT] Francisco Ribera [1537-1591] taught. In contrast to Preterism, Futurism usually sees the majority of Revelation’s prophecies (from Chapter 4 onward) as yet on the horizon. Concerning the Antichrist…Futurism generally applies the prophecies of ‘the little horn’, ‘the man of sin’, and ‘the beast’ to a single, yet-future Mr. Serpent [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist]…
As with Preterism, Futurism’s net result is that it also significantly wipes away ‘the beast’ [Ed.: i.e., the Antichrist] stain from the papacy.”
“Great Tribulation” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “‘Great Tribulation’ is a term found in Matthew 24:21 and in Revelation 2:22 and 7:14. Some writers of prophecy books refer to the end-times’ tribulation period, which occurs just prior to the Second Coming of Christ, as ‘the Great Tribulation’.”
“Irving, Edward” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 127): “…Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving (1792-1834)…pastored the large Chalcedonian Chapel in London [England] with over 1000 members. Cofounder of ‘The Society for the Investigation of Prophecy’, Irving eventually accepted the one-man antichrist idea of [John Henry] Newman [Ed.: who later became a Roman Catholic cardinal], Burgh, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and [Ed.: Spanish Jesuit Francisco] Ribera, yet he went a step further. Somewhere around 1830, Edward Irving began to teach the novel idea of a two-phase return of Christ, the first phase being ‘a secret rapture before the rise of antichrist’.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author Dave Macpherson, British evangelist John Nelson Darby took his Pre-Trib ideas from Edward Irving, who took some of his Pre-Trib ideas from Margaret Macdonald! Irving had earlier “supervised” the translation into English of Jesuit Emmanuel Lacunza’s book, “The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty”. This English translation of Lacunza’s book was published in 1827. Did Irving supervise the translation of Lacunza’s book into English knowing that Lacunza was a Jesuit?
“Jesuit Order” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Jesuit Order is a religious order of the Roman Catholic Church, officially approved by Pope Paul III in 1540. The primary goals of this order are (1) to roll back the Protestant Reformation and the freedoms that it brought to many of the inhabitants of this planet; (2) to enhance the power and prestige of the Papacy (and its ‘White Pope’); and (3) to rule despotically over the governments of the world through the Papacy. The head of the Jesuit Order is the Jesuit Superior General – the ‘Black Pope’ – the real power behind the Papal throne. The Jesuit Order is infamous for fomenting revolutions and wars, assassinating heads of State, and subverting nations. I believe that it is almost impossible to understand European history and Church history without a good understanding of the Protestant Reformation and the Jesuit-led Counter-Reformation.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: I included the “Jesuit Order” in this “Definitions” section because the Jesuit Order not only choreographed brutal Inquisition of Bible-believing Christians, but also has infiltrated Protestant denominations and independent, Bible-believing groups, societies, associations, organizations, and institutes. This infiltration program (part of the Jesuit-led “Counter-Reformation”) has included: (1) putting undercover Jesuits and Jesuit “temporal coadjutors” in key positions in such groups, associations, etc. (e.g., John Henry Newman of the Oxford movement); and, (2) introducing theological “viruses” through Jesuit-concocted and/or supported doctrines. I believe that one can make a pretty good “case” that the Jesuits had at least a “major assist” on the development of certain aspects of “Dispensationalism”, such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and an “exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist” (the latter viewpoint conveniently taking the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy)!
“Lacunza, Emmanuel” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Emmanuel Lacunza [1731-1801] was a Chilean JESUIT who wrote the four-volume book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’. Lacunza used the pseudonym of Rabbi Juan Josafat Ben Ezra for his book in order to deceive Protestants into thinking that it had been written by a Messianic [i.e., “Converted”] Jew, thus for a time concealing its JESUIT origins! Lacunza’s book provided at least some of the ingredients for the largely fictional prophetic concoction that is today called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture – a doctrine that is one of the pillars of ‘Dispensationalism’. Author and researcher Dave MacPherson admits that Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving may have been influenced on some details of futurist views by [Jesuit] Emmanuel Lacunza. MacPherson tells us that while ‘Lacunza saw a future tribulation and hinted that the [two] witnesses could represent at least part of the church, he didn’t see them raptured before the tribulation’. Manuscripts of Jesuit Lacunza’s book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’ were in circulation as early as the 1790s. The first complete Spanish edition of Emmanuel Lacunza’s book was published in London in 1816, and an English translation (supervised by Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving) was published in 1827.”
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Lisa Ruby, author of “GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Pages 1, 29, 61, 64, 94, 102, 133, 160, and 191):
“The ‘Left Behind’ series presents a false grace through ‘Christian’ characters that give in to ungodliness and worldly lusts that war against their souls. The storyline has the characters sinning to survive and rationalizing their service to sin because they are living during the tribulation.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series was written in such a way as to pervert major biblical truths, but because this is not easily seen, these perversions enter into the reader’s mind without him even realizing it.
…Even more disturbing is that the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors’ depiction of the happenings at the outset of the tribulation parallel what is actually planned [Ed.: emphasis in original] by the New World Order elitists. …There will be mass disappearances around the world that might be reported by the media as occurring simultaneously, but they will NOT occur because Jesus Christ has taken His people from the earth in a secret, pre-tribulation rapture that He NEVER promised. The horrific happenings [that] the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors portrayed as being caused by Jesus rapturing His people from the earth before the tribulation is WITHOUT any scriptural foundation. …The ‘Left Behind’ series sends the message that if you hear of mass disappearances [Ed.: during the “tribulation”] you should not suspect that any foul play occurred.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series presents many false teachings about the mark of the beast. [Ed. Note: You will need to read Lisa Ruby’s book for the details!]
…The ‘mark of the believer’ deception [i.e., cross-shaped smudge marks on their foreheads], repeated many times in the ‘Left Behind’ series, is one such teaching they can and will use against Christians during the tribulation if they can get away with it. …[The] visible ‘mark of the believer’ is not in the Bible.
…The [‘Left Behind’ series] authors have treated the sacred subject of sex in an unholy manner in the ‘Left Behind’ series.
…By the way, the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors want the reader to think [that] the president of the United States of America will go against the regime of the New World Order. This is totally inaccurate because the government of the United States of America is leading the world into the New World Order.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series gives the reader a false hope right out of the pit of hell, that you can serve sin today and then decide to serve Jesus when that Wicked is revealed.”
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 21): “In the last few years, the number-one promoter of the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture idea has been the New York Times best-selling ‘Left Behind’ series, coauthored by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. A high-speed, 12-book sequence of novels about the end times, ‘Left Behind’ teaches that the return of Jesus Christ takes place in two distinct phases. First [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] comes ‘invisibly’ to remove His Church before a seven-year tribulation during which the rest of humanity must face the antichrist. This is [called] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture. At the end of those seven years [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] will again return ‘visibly’ to deliver those who became Christians during the tribulation… This is the second coming. Thus [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers] it’s rapture first, then seven years with the antichrist, then the visible second coming of Jesus Christ.” (Emphasis is by author Steve Wohlberg.)
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page xi): “‘Left Behind’ theology is sheer fiction – indeed, a most dangerous fiction.”
“Lloyd, James” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “James Lloyd of ‘Christian Media’ is one of the champions in the fight to expose the Pre-Tribulation Rapture as a false, unbiblical doctrine. (Another such champion is author Dave MacPherson.) James Lloyd has authored the following books about Pre-Tribulation Rapturism: ‘The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism’, ‘Lying in Laodicea’, ‘The Reckoning’, and ‘Invisible Scripture’. He has also exposed the Pre-Trib Rapture on his radio broadcast and in printed articles.”
“Macdonald, Margaret” (Per Dave MacPherson, author of “The Rapture Plot”; 1995; Pages 2, 3, 6, 51 and 53):
“One person whose prophetic views greatly influenced [Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward] Irving and his friends was Miss Margaret Macdonald, a young lassie living in the small shipbuilding town of Port Glasgow in western Scotland.
…During springtime in 1830, an end-time vision [Ed. Note: of a two-stage Second Coming of Jesus Christ with a secret Pre-Trib Rapture] sprang into Margaret Macdonald’s mind. Privately, she sent handwritten copies of her Scripture-riddled revelation to some leading clergymen including Irving.
…As early as June 2, 1830, Edward Irving confessed in a private letter that the ‘substance of…Margaret Macdonald’s visions or revelations…carry to me a spiritual conviction and a spiritual reproof which I cannot express’.
…As early as the September 1830 issue of ‘The Morning Watch’, a writer using the pen name of ‘Fidus’ clearly expressed her [Ed.: i.e., Margaret Macdonald’s] novel idea – the earliest moment I’ve found anyone publicly teaching the pretrib rapturescape.
…What generally hasn’t been known about Margaret [Macdonald] is the extent to which she was open to the world of the ‘occult’.
…Although Margaret [Macdonald] wasn’t a rapture date-setter, she was an Antichrist-setter. On the same evening that found her arriving at her pretrib rapture construction, she predicted that 19th century socialist Robert Owen…would eventually become the Antichrist. But Owen failed to do his part and died in 1858!”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: Scottish lassie Margaret Macdonald was about 15 years old when, in the springtime of 1830, she got her “end-time vision” of a “two-stage” Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
“MacPherson, Dave” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Author Dave MacPherson is one of the champions in the fight to expose the Pre-Tribulation Rapture as a false, unbiblical doctrine of fairly recent origin (i.e., making its public debut in the early 1830s). (Another such champion is author James Lloyd.) Dave MacPherson has authored the following books about Pre-Tribulation Rapturism: ‘The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories’, ‘The Rapture Plot’, and ‘The Three R’s: Rapture, Revisionism, Robbery: Pretribulation Rapturism from 1830 to Hal Lindsey’. Dave MacPherson traveled to both England and Scotland to do much of his research on the ‘origins’ of Pre-Tribulation Rapturism.”
“Mid-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Mid-Tribulation Rapture is also called by some the ‘Pre-Wrath Rapture’ – and it teaches that Jesus Christ will ‘rapture’ His Church somewhere right in the middle of the alleged ‘seven-year tribulation period’ – and just PRIOR to God pouring out His wrath on the remaining inhabitants of planet Earth (during the last half of that alleged ‘seven-year tribulation period’). I suspect that this is the ‘rapture viewpoint’ with the fewest adherents.”
“Newman, John Henry” (Per David W. Daniels, author of “Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible?: The True History of God’s Words”; 2005; Pages 116 and 117): “A ‘Judas Iscariot’ was firmly planted in England. His name was John [Henry] Newman (1801-90). John was a deep ‘mole’ who served the Vatican by controlling the Tractarian society. John’s brainwashing tactics were so effective that they actually shifted the thinking of the English Protestants and drew them closer to [Ed.: Papal] Rome. [Ed.: Emphasis is in the original.] …Finally in 1845 he [Ed.: Newman] revealed the truth [Ed.: of his loyalty to Papal Rome]. With his disguise off Newman took almost 250 ministers and theologians, and near 625 professors, Parliament members, etc., to serve the ‘great ***** ’. Newman delivered England to [Ed.: Papal] Rome! Just one year after he dumped his Christian faith, John [Henry Newman] was made a [Roman Catholic] priest.”
“Newman, John Henry” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 127): “John Henry Newman (1801-1890) [was] a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford movement (1833-1845). In 1850, Newman wrote his ‘Letter on Anglican Difficulties’ blatantly revealing that one of the goals of the [Ed.: Oxford] movement was to lead ‘the various English denominations and parties’ back to [Ed.: Papal] Rome. The ‘Oxford Tracts’ gave fresh weight to ‘anti-Protestant opinions’, gave ‘assistance [to] the laborers of the futurist school’, worked to ‘unprotestantize the Church of England’ and ‘set aside all application to the Roman Papacy of the fearful prophecies respecting Antichrist.’ After publishing his own pamphlet about a future Mr. Sinister [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist], Newman himself became a [Roman] Catholic, and later a highly honored cardinal…”
Ed. Comment to the preceding two definitions: Why are so many Roman Catholics, Jesuits, and a Roman Catholic sympathizer (who later became a Roman Catholic priest and cardinal) involved with some of the “futurist” elements of Dispensationalism, such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and/or an “exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist” (which effectively takes the SPOTLIGHT off of the Papacy as being the Antichrist)?
“Oxford movement” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “[Ed: The Oxford movement was] a High-Church, anti-liberal movement within the Church of England, begun at Oxford University in 1833: see TRACTARIANISM.” [Ed. NOTE: I have seen both “Oxford movement” and “Oxford Movement” in various books and dictionaries.]
“Oxford movement” (Per John W. Kennedy of India, author of “The Torch of the Testimony”; 1965; Pages 205-207):
“…Of these champions of the established Church a number were associated with Oxford [England], hence the name Oxford Movement which was given to their society. [Ed.: The movement was begun officially in 1833.] The most well known [Ed.: member of the Oxford movement] was John Henry Newman, later to become a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church. …These men sought to establish the unbroken succession of the Church of England from the ancient [Roman] Catholic Church, and advertised their views in a series of papers which they called ‘Tracts for the Times’. From these [tracts] the name ‘Tractarians’ has been derived. They made much of the glorious tradition of the past, and held to a doctrine of Apostolic Succession whereby the authority of the apostles was transmitted to bishops down through the centuries by the laying on of hands. …Only those, they said, who are in the apostolic succession can validly administer the sacraments which are a means of saving grace. [Ed.: Of course, that is clearly 100% Roman Catholic doctrine!] The doctrine of transubstantiation was held, and there was a return to many Romish practices – truths, they believed, which the Reformers had wrongly repudiated.
…The Anglo-Catholic Tractarians gained a large following among the clergy.
…In 1839 [John Henry] Newman issued Tract XC [i.e., #90]. It roused tremendous controversy, and resulted in further tracts being forbidden. In Tract XC Newman dealt with the question of interpreting the thirty-nine articles which outlined the definitely Protestant faith of the Church of England. These, he said, could be conscientiously signed, but interpreted from the standpoint of the [Roman] Catholic Church, not interpreted only as their authors originally intended. The furious outcry which resulted charged the Tractarians with evasion and Jesuitry… A few years later, in 1845, [John Henry] Newman was formally received into the Roman Catholic Church. Some hundreds of clergymen and laymen followed him.
The departure of Newman and his followers did not mean the break up of the Anglo-Catholic party. It was seriously weakened, but, under the able leadership of Edward Pusey [Ed. Note: from which we get the term “Puseyism”] was, within a few years, stronger than it had ever been, and was continuing to grow. Up to the present day it has exercised a powerful influence in a large section of the Anglican Church, and has wrought almost unbelievable changes to restore ideas of the Middle Ages which great men like [Nicholas] Ridley and [Hugh] Latimer opposed to the point of giving their lives at the stake.”
Ed. Comments to the preceding two definitions:
(1) “The Oxford movement” was clearly controlled in the 1830s and in the 1840s by undercover Roman Catholics and Roman Catholic sympathizers within the Church of England. One of the leaders of “the Oxford movement” was John Henry Newman (1801-1890), who later left the movement to become a Roman Catholic priest – and still later, a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church! “The Oxford movement” was doing all it could in the 1830s and 1840s to push the Church of England back into the arms of the Papacy!
(2) Something for all of us to consider: Were there any links between this pro-Roman Catholic “Oxford movement” and either Edward Irving or John Nelson Darby, both of whom taught the Pre-Trib Rapture? Although the Oxford movement officially began in 1833, the Anglo-Catholic party had been working very hard within the Church of England PRIOR to that time to bring the Church of England back more in line with Roman Catholicism! Remember also that the Jesuits had been very active in England from the time of the late 1500s!
(3) Though there may not be any connection, I find it interesting that my copy of the “Scofield Study Bible” (whose notes strongly promote “Dispensationalism” and the “Pre-Trib Rapture”) was published by the “OXFORD University Press”. Geoffrey Thomas of “The Banner of Truth” tells us that the Oxford University Press is “no friend to gospel Christianity”, and that it paid Cyrus I. Scofield “enormous royalties” [for his work on the “Scofield Study Bible”].
(4) Please also see “Tractarianism” in this section.
“Post-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Post-Tribulation Rapture was the ‘rapture viewpoint’ held by the vast majority of Christian writers throughout Church history until at least the 1830s. This viewpoint places the true Church here on planet Earth DURING the end-times’ tribulation period when the Antichrist makes the final push to exterminate Bible-believing Christianity – and possibly even much (or, all) of nominal Christianity.”
“Pre-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 22):
“The [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture has its origins in the nineteenth century – beginning, according to one critic [Ed.: i.e., author Dave MacPherson], with a young girl’s vision. In 1830, in Port Glasgow, Scotland, fifteen-year-old Margaret MacDonald attended a healing service. There, she was said to have seen a vision of a two-stage return of Jesus Christ. The story of her vision was adopted and amplified by John Nelson Darby, a British evangelical preacher and founder of the Plymouth Brethren.
At the time, the belief that Jesus [Christ] will come back again was not new. Christians have always taught that Jesus [Christ] will return to earth and that believers should live in the urgent and hopeful anticipation of His second coming. This teaching is central to ancient Christian creeds and is taught by all churches. But Darby’s new teaching was the claim that Christ would return twice. The first return would be in secret, to ‘Rapture’ His church out of the world and up to heaven. Christ would return a second time after seven years of global tribulation to establish a Jerusalem-based kingdom on earth (which they call the ‘Glorious Appearing’, a phrase from Titus 2:13). For Darby and his sympathizers, the search was on for Bible verses to support this two-stage version of Christ’s return.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author and researcher Dave Macpherson, British evangelist John Nelson Darby took a lot of his Pre-Trib views from Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, who had taken a “large slice” of his Pre-Trib views (e.g., the two-stage [second] coming of Christ) from a Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald.
“Pre-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “There are enough JESUIT fingerprints on certain aspects of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine (e.g., a future seven-year tribulation period and an exclusively future, single antichrist) that possibly we should call it the ‘JESUIT-inspired-and-assisted-Pre-Tribulation Rapture’ – a doctrine that has deceived, blinded, and neutralized many Protestants and independent, Bible-believing Christians. (It has deceived and blinded many of them to the truth that the Papacy is the Antichrist; and it has neutralized many of them by keeping them from fighting evil because they think that they won’t be here during the ‘tribulation’.) Public ‘teaching’ of this doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture did not really ‘take off’ UNTIL the early 1830s. Later, it – and its ‘big daddy’, ‘Dispensationalism’ – were popularized in the USA by the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’ – and then still later by modern writers of books dealing with Bible prophecy. Steve Wohlberg gives us a good description of this doctrine on page 21 of his book, ‘End Time DELUSIONS’, (as he was describing the ‘Left Behind’ series): ‘[Ed.: The Pre-Trib Rapture teaches] that the return of Jesus Christ takes place in two distinct phases. First [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] comes ‘invisibly’ to remove His Church before a seven-year tribulation during which the rest of humanity must face the antichrist. This is [called] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture. At the end of those seven years [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] will again return ‘visibly’ to deliver those who became Christians during the tribulation… This is the second coming. Thus [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers] it’s rapture first, then seven years with the antichrist, then the visible second coming of Jesus Christ’.” (Emphasis on the words “invisibly” and “visibly” is by Steve Wohlberg.)
“Pre-Wrath Rapture” (See Mid-Tribulation Rapture in this section.)
“Rapture” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006; meaning #3): “A carrying away or being carried away in body or spirit: now rare except in theological usage.” (Please see “Rapture, The” in this section.)
“Rapture” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 119): “A belief that Born Again Christians will be lifted up into heaven. Traditionally, Christians believed that, like the hero of ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’, they must endure suffering and hardships to reach heaven’s pearly gates. However, dispensationalists are taught that they need not suffer for one moment, that they will experience an instant [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture – thus escaping all various holocausts that precede the destruction of Planet Earth.”
“Rapture, The” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “In some Christian theologies, the bodily ascent into heaven just before Armageddon of those who are saved.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: The above “term” in Webster’s 2006 edition should have been labeled “The PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture”.
“Resurrection, The” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “Theological: 1. The rising of Jesus [Christ] from the dead after his death and burial. 2. The rising of all the dead at the Last Judgment.”
“Ribera, Francisco” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 114, 116):
“At the Council of Trent [Ed.: 1545-1563], papal leaders and JESUITS brainstormed about how to counteract Protestantism and bring defectors back to the mother church. Behind closed doors, they decided this was to be done, not only through the Inquisition and torture, but also through THEOLOGY. What kind of theology? Here’s the answer: By reinterpreting the prophecies about ‘the man of sin’, ‘the little horn’, and ‘the beast’!
Two very intelligent Spanish JESUITS rose to the challenge: Luis de Alcasar (1554-1613) of Seville and FRANCISCO RIBERA (1537-1591) of Salamanca. Their strategy was, in a nutshell, one of reapplication and diversion, yet they went in opposite directions. After reading the Bible by candlelight like Martin Luther did, [JESUIT Luis de] Alcasar decided to apply the Bible’s antichrist prophecies to the ancient past while [JESUIT Francisco] Ribera applied them to the distant future. ‘Smart move!’ was the response from [Papal] Rome. By reapplying these prophecies to the past and to the future instead of to the present, these two tricky JESUIT scholars sought to divert the prophetic finger light years away from the VATICAN. Their views quickly became official positions within the Roman [Catholic] Church – even though these two views contradicted each other!
Futurism is what [Spanish JESUIT] FRANCISCO RIBERA taught. In contrast to Preterism, Futurism usually sees the majority of Revelation’s prophecies (from Chapter 4 onward) as yet on the horizon. Concerning the Antichrist…Futurism generally applies the prophecies of ‘the little horn’, ‘the man of sin’, and ‘the beast’ to a single, yet-future Mr. Serpent…
As with Preterism, Futurism’s net result is that it also significantly wipes away ‘the beast’ [Ed.: i.e., the Antichrist] stain from the PAPACY.”
“Scofield, C. I.” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 23): “…Cyrus I. Scofield was a dubious character who embezzled money, served six months in jail for forgery even after his conversion to Christianity, and abandoned his wife and daughters, according to critics. Scofield hit the jackpot with his annotated ‘Scofield Reference Bible’, a version of the King James Bible in which he added dispensationalist headings and notes in the margin commenting on each prophetic passage in light of [John Nelson] Darby’s [dispensationalist] system. With sales in the millions, it became the version of the Bible through which Americans read their scriptures throughout much of the twentieth century. Scofield’s notes and headings were woven in with the biblical text itself, elevating Dispensationalism to a level of biblical authority that no previous writing had.”
“Scofield, C. I.” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Cyrus Ingerson (C.I.) Scofield was born in 1843, and he died in 1921. Scofield is best known in fundamentalist Christian circles for the ‘Scofield Study Bible’ (a.k.a. the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’), which was published by the Oxford University Press. Geoffrey Thomas of ‘The Banner of Truth’ tells us that the Oxford University Press is ‘no friend to gospel Christianity’, and that it paid Scofield ‘enormous royalties’. Some of the notes found in the Scofield Study Bible strongly promote ‘Dispensationalism’. Many ‘dispensationalists’ of the past – and many today – promote a dispensationalist doctrine called the ‘Pretribulation Rapture’. Author Joseph M. Canfield, in his book ‘The Incredible Scofield and His Book’ (1988), covers Scofield’s sordid history of abandoning his Roman Catholic wife (and then failing to support her and their children – which ultimately led to divorce), forgery, and his sudden resignation under a cloud as United States District Attorney for Kansas. Author Loraine Boettner, commenting on Canfield’s book, says: ‘This is one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensationalist system…because it shows how the book that had the most to do with promotion of that system, ‘The Scofield Reference Bible’, originated’.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding two definitions: Please read “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” (1988) by Joseph M. Canfield for “the rest of the story” on Cyrus I. Scofield. (Note: The publisher of this book is Ross House Books, Vallecito, California.)
“Scofield Reference Bible, The” (or, “Scofield Study Bible, The”) (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 129): “In 1909, [Cyrus Ingerson] Scofield published the first edition of his famous ‘Scofield Reference Bible’. In the early 1900s, this Bible became so popular in American Protestant Bible schools that literally millions of copies were printed. What made Scofield’s Bible so energizing was not so much the Scripture itself, but his footnotes. Yet those footnotes contained the [Ed.: Jesuit] ‘virus’. Anti-Reformation interpretations were inserted that pointed the finger away from papal Rome [Ed.: as the Antichrist of Scripture] and toward a future antichrist.”
“Seven-Year Period of Tribulation” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 40, 47): “The truth is, from Genesis to Revelation, there is no exact passage that specifically mentions a seven-year period of tribulation at all. …The entire ‘seven-year period of tribulation’ theory is an END TIME DELUSION, a massive mega-myth. It may even go down in history as the ‘greatest evangelical misinterpretation of all time’. …There is no text in the Bible which teaches a ‘seven-year tribulation’.” [Ed.: Some writers describe the end-times’ tribulation period as the “Great Tribulation”.] (See “Daniels 70th Week” in this section.)
“Temple of God, The” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 73 and 74): “The original Greek word [Ed.: that the Apostle] Paul used in II Thessalonians 2:4 for ‘temple’ is ‘naos’. …Did Paul use the same [Greek] word [Ed.: i.e., “naos”] anywhere else in his writings? Yes. In his letter to the early Corinthians, Paul wrote to ‘the church of God which is at Corinth’ (I Corinthians 1:2). Then he inquired, ‘Do you not know that you are the temple [naos] of God and that the spirit of God dwells in you?’ (I Corinthians 3:16) Here [the Apostle] Paul clearly applied the word ‘naos’ to the Christian Church – not a physical temple in Jerusalem. …In fact, in all of his writings, every time Paul used the word ‘naos’, he always applied [Ed.: emphasis is in original] it to the Christian Church and never to a rebuilt Israeli [Ed.: i.e., Jewish] temple!”
“Tractarianism” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “The principles of the Oxford movement, favoring a return to early [Ed.: Roman] Catholic doctrines in the Church of England: from the ninety ‘Tracts for the Times’, pamphlets issued at Oxford from 1833 to 1841.” (Please also see “Oxford movement” in this section.)
“Tribulation” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 119): “Generally understood [Ed.: especially by dispensationalists and those in the “Pre-Trib camp”] to be a seven-year period of great upheaval never before experienced on earth. Dispensationalists insist that God will punish the Jews in particular during this period because of their disbelief in Christ.” [Ed.: Some writers describe the end-times’ tribulation period as the “Great Tribulation”.]
OPENING QUOTATIONS:
“Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across the TRUTH. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business AS IF NOTHING HAD HAPPENED.” – Winston Churchill (1874-1965; British statesman and writer)
“Any story – or a particular side of a story – can sound pretty good and quite believable – and can even sound perfectly true, UNTIL someone else comes along and gives you the OTHER side (i.e., the REST) of the story.” – Darryl Eberhart (Editor of ETI & TTT newsletters; December 13, 2007)
“We are told to love one another as Christ has loved us. Pop psychology trivializes that command by equating it with a ‘positive’ attitude. Forgotten is the first duty of love: to speak the truth (Ephesians 4:15). Real love does not flatter or soothe when correction is needed but [rather] points out the error which is blinding and harming the loved one. Christ said, ‘As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent’ (Revelation 3:19). Instead, the idea is now current that love excludes rebuke, ignores the truth, and seeks unity at any price. Only disaster can result.” – Dave Hunt (“A Woman Rides the Beast”; 1994; Page 403)
“…Piety requires us to honor truth above our friends.” – Aristotle (384-322 B.C.; Greek philosopher)
I. INTRODUCTION
Is it really important what position Christians hold on the timing of the “Rapture”? Some folks think that the timing of the “Rapture” is doctrinally unimportant. Others believe that the Rapture “timing issue” is very important!
For those unfamiliar with the “Rapture debate”, Pre-Trib’ers believe that Jesus Christ will “rapture” His church OFF OF planet Earth BEFORE the start of the “end-times’ tribulation” [which they believe is 7 years long]. Post-Trib’ers believe that “the Church” is here on planet Earth DURING the “end-times’ tribulation”, and will be facing the Antichrist system and its murderous hordes. Post-Trib’ers also believe that Jesus Christ will return at the END of the “end-times’ tribulation” (referred to by some as “the Great Tribulation”). Many Post-Trib’ers do not subscribe to a 7-year timeframe for the “end-times’ tribulation”.
I USED to believe in the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint. That was, of course, BEFORE I began reading through the entire Holy Bible (KJV) from cover to cover each year! The Pre-Trib viewpoint is admittedly the prophetic viewpoint that sells the most prophecy books! In fact, the Pre-Trib Rapture has been a fantastically big “cash cow” for a number of well-known “prophecy writers”.
I also believe that “the Antichrist” (as a geopolitical-religious entity) was revealed centuries ago. And “NO!” – I do not believe in the “Preterist View”, nor do I believe that “the Antichrist” was Roman Emperor Nero or any other particular individual in history. I believe that “the [historical] Antichrist” is the Papacy, and that this assertion can be strongly backed up with both Scriptural and historical evidence! (Please read my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, which is posted on the three websites listed at the beginning of this newsletter.) I also believe that “the Church” will go through the entire end-times’ tribulation period (i.e., the “Post-Trib” prophetic viewpoint). And that is the prophetic viewpoint that most Bible scholars held for centuries! That is, of course, until the “Pre-Trib” Rapture, with Dispensationalism’s future 7-year end-times’ tribulation period and exclusively future, single, end-times’ Antichrist, began to be publicly taught in Great Britain in the 1830s! (Please review the term “Dispensationalism” in the “Definitions” section if you are unsure of its meaning.)
Some people will criticize me for writing on this “tough issue” – saying that I am being “divisive” at a critical time in the fight against the “New World Order”. Yet we are told in Jude 3 to “earnestly contend for the faith”. I do not believe we are given an “option” of which particular aspects of “the faith” we will “choose” to defend! Earnestly contending for the faith would certainly include the admonition given to Christians in Ephesians 5:11 to reprove “the unfruitful works of darkness” – which would certainly include FALSE doctrines masquerading as “truth” inside the “Church”! And if “Dispensationalism” and its popular “Pre-Trib Rapture” are indeed FALSE – and not supported by Scripture, but rather REFUTED by it, then they must be exposed! And if the “Pre-Trib Rapture” is causing some Christians to sit back, and to be lazy, apathetic, and complacent about fighting evil because “they [allegedly] won’t be here” during the “end-times’ tribulation”, then it absolutely needs to be exposed!
None of us was able to prearrange into which denomination or Christian fellowship we were born. We ALL should have the courage to examine any denominational or fundamentalist doctrine – no matter how old it may be or how precious and sweet-sounding it is to us – if someone tells us that Scripture does NOT support it – or that Scripture actually REFUTES it! It takes “guts” to admit that we have been “hoodwinked” by “false apostles” and/or Biblically-ignorant preachers – but that is something that we ALL must do if we find that the Holy Bible actually REFUTES any long-held, cherished doctrine of ours!
NOTE: This newsletter will NOT discuss “Preterism”. It also will not discuss the subject of “Premillennialism” versus “Postmillennialism”. Rather, it will deal primarily with the TIMING of the “Rapture”.
II. THE BIBLICAL RECORD
Obviously, the Holy Bible is the most critical record – for God’s Word must always be the standard by which we measure all things! John Walvoord, author of several books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture, has admitted that there is NO SINGLE Bible verse that by itself teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture!
It was my daily studies of the Holy Bible (reading through the entire Bible each year) that convinced me that the Holy Bible clearly does NOT teach the Pre-Trib Rapture. Here are some of the Bible passages that really spoke to my heart:
1) I Thessalonians 4:15-17: [Ed.: The Apostle Paul wrote]: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall NOT prevent [Ed.: i.e., precede] them which are asleep. (Verse 16): For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST: (Verse 17): THEN we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Do the above verses really need explanation? Aren’t they perfectly clear? The Holy Bible is saying that those Christians still alive at Jesus Christ’s [Second] Coming do NOT PRECEDE the “dead in Christ”, who are raised [i.e., resurrected] FIRST! And it is only THEN [i.e., after the “dead in Christ” are resurrected] that those Christians “still living” are caught up “to meet the Lord in the air”! Since the Holy Bible teaches only TWO resurrections [i.e., one for the “just” and one for the “unjust”]; and since the Bible clearly teaches that the resurrection of the just is the FIRST RESURRECTION (see Revelation 20:4-6); and since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said four times that He would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54) – well then, how can anyone say that there is some “special group” of Christians that are getting “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the first resurrection? And just HOW MANY “LAST DAYS” are there? Is there a “LAST DAY” BEFORE the alleged “7-year tribulation” begins? Is there a “LAST DAY” 3½ years into the alleged “7-year tribulation”, just prior to God’s Wrath falling on a sinful world?
Again, it is worth repeating: The Lord Jesus Christ said four times that He would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54)!
It might be interesting to note here, that as a great person in Biblical times (in the Middle East) approached a city, a large entourage of folks from that city would then come out to meet that great person at some distance from the city. They would all THEN turn RIGHT AROUND and escort that great person into their city. Doesn’t that sound just like what we read in I Thessalonians 4:16, 17?
I Thessalonians 4:15-17 alone should be enough to “sink” the “Pre-Trib Rapture ship”. After all, those Christians remaining alive at the 2nd Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ CANNOT precede those Christians “which are asleep” (and who will be raised in the resurrection at the “last day”).
2) Matthew 24:26-33: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “Wherefore if they shall say unto you, ‘Behold, He is in the desert’; go not forth: ‘Behold, [He is] in the secret chambers’; believe [it] not. (Verse 27): For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Verse 28): For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (Verse 29): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Verse 30): And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Verse 31): And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Verse 32): Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh [Ed.: i.e., near]: (Verse 33): So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.”
The Lord Jesus Christ is talking about His “Second Coming”. He mentions such things as “after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken.” To whom would this warning be given except to believers on planet Earth who would be susceptible to folks trying to trick them into believing that Christ had come before He had actually returned? And how can believers on Earth see all these signs if they’ve already been “raptured” OUT BEFORE the start of the alleged “7-year tribulation”? (Pre-Trib’ers might say that believers who see these signs must be the “Christians who get saved during the 7-year tribulation” – but nowhere in Scripture does it say that! Here is yet another ASSUMPTION on the part of the Pre-Trib’ers.)
And while we are on the subject of these many “Christians who get saved during the 7-year tribulation” (according to Pre-Trib’ers), HOW is it that so many people “get saved” during this “7-year tribulation” when the Holy Spirit and the “Church” have been “removed” from Earth (according to Pre-Trib’ers)?
3) Mark 13:24-27: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “But in those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (Verse 25): And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (Verse 26): And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (Verse 27): And THEN shall He send His angels, and shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of heaven.”
If those Christians who were “raptured” before the start of the alleged “7-year end-times’ tribulation” (as Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME) were already gathered to the Lord, did they get LOST, so that the Lord has to send His angels out to gather them a second time? If there is only ONE “gathering together”, and we Christians who are alive at Christ’s return cannot PRECEDE those who are raised in the “resurrection of the just” (at the END of the “end-times’ tribulation”), it sure looks like the above Scripture passage is placing the “gathering together” of Christians AFTER the “end-times’ tribulation”!
4) Matthew 13:24-30; and 37-42: “Another parable put He [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: (Verse 25): But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. (Verse 26): But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. (Verse 27): So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, ‘Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?’ (Verse 28): He said unto them, ‘An enemy hath done this.’ The servants said unto him, ‘Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?’ (Verse 29): But he said, ‘Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (Verse: 30) Let both grow together UNTIL THE HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.’” [Ed.: A few verses later His disciples ask Him to explain the above parable.] “…(Verse 37): He [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Verse 38): The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; (Verse 39): The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. (Verse 40): As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; SO shall it be in the end of this world. (Verse 41): The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Verse 42): And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.’”
This parable of the Lord Jesus Christ clearly shows that the “tares” are the “bad guys” – and that the “bad guys” are the ones who are gathered up FIRST at the “harvest” that occurs at the end of the world! Here we have the Lord Jesus Christ teaching just the opposite of what Pre-Trib’ers say! (Pre-Trib’ers say that the “good guys” are gathered up FIRST in the alleged Pre-Trib Rapture.)
5) John 17:15, 20: [Ed. Note: The following are “red letter” words quoted directly from the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ in a prayer to His Heavenly Father.]: (Verse 15): “I pray NOT that Thou shouldest take them [Ed.: i.e., His disciples] OUT OF the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
…(Verse 20): Neither pray I for these [Ed.: i.e., His original disciples] ALONE, but for them ALSO which shall believe on Me through their word;”
Jesus Christ in verse 20 says that He is praying this prayer for all future believers as well as for His original disciples! The Son of God is praying to His Father asking Him NOT to evacuate His followers OUT OF the world.
The two words “keep from” (in verse 15 above) appear in this form only twice in the entire New Testament: here in John 17:15, and in Revelation 3:10. And isn’t it interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers TRY to use Revelation 3:10 to “prove” the Pre-Trib Rapture? Revelation 3:10 reads: “Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” It is also quite interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers NEVER mention the “one other” use of the Greek for “keep from” that appears in John 17:15, where Jesus Christ prays NOT to have believers removed from planet Earth! Wow! It certainly appears that John 17:15 has the Son of God praying AGAINST the Pre-Trib Rapture!
And it is certainly worth mentioning here that this is where much of the Pre-Trib argument falls apart, because Pre-Trib’ers WRONGLY ASSUME that God MUST take those Christians living in the “end times” OUT OF the world in order to keep them safe during the “Tribulation”. (The Pre-Trib position, sadly, is built solely upon assumptions, and not upon any solid Scriptural ground!) Anyway, such an ASSUMPTION “assumes” that God is NOT able to keep any true Christians safe here on planet Earth DURING [i.e., in the MIDST of] the “tribulation” period. (Yes, some Christians will be beheaded!) Yet the Bible is full of examples where God kept His children safe IN THE MIDST OF tribulation. In fact, that seems indeed to be a great theme of the Holy Bible, i.e., “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. Here are just a few examples:
(a.) When God’s judgments fell on the Egyptians during the time of the Hebrews’ captivity in Egypt, God did NOT “air evacuate” the Hebrews OUT OF Egypt (or OFF OF planet Earth). No! While God’s judgments were falling on the Egyptians in those areas where they resided, God preserved His children in Goshen IN THE MIDST OF those horrible judgments! (Isn’t it interesting that God’s “judgments and plagues” that fell on the Egyptians in the book of Exodus look very similar to God’s “judgments and plagues” that we see falling on the Earth’s inhabitants in the book of Revelation?) And could not this great and Almighty God, who preserved the Hebrew children IN THE MIDST OF those horrible plagues that befell the Egyptians, ALSO preserve His obedient children ON planet Earth DURING the “end-times’ tribulation”?
(b.) When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the book of Daniel, Chapter 3, ran afoul of King Nebuchadnezzar [i.e., the three young men disobeyed the king to his face!], did God “air evacuate” them OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? When the king had these three young Jewish men tossed into the fiery furnace, did God “air evacuate” them OUT OF the furnace in order to save them? NO! God preserved them IN THE MIDST OF the fiery furnace!
(c.) When Daniel was tossed in the lions’ den for disobeying the king’s command (see Chapter 6 in the book of Daniel), did God “air evacuate” Daniel OFF OF planet Earth in order to save him? NO! God preserved Daniel IN THE MIDST OF the lions’ den! (Can’t we see a beautiful picture and pattern developing here of an all-powerful God who delights in delivering His obedient children who STAND AGAINST tyranny and injustice – even when they are IN THE MIDST OF horrible situations of danger, persecution, and tribulation?)
(d.) What about Rahab in the book of Joshua, Chapter 6, who had lied to her government’s officials to protect the Hebrew spies? When the Hebrew soldiers destroyed the city of Jericho where Rahab resided, did God “air evacuate” Rahab and her family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! God preserved Rahab and her family IN THE MIDST OF the destruction of the city!
(e.) What lesson can we learn from Noah? When God brought His judgment through a great flood upon the inhabitants of the Earth, did He “air evacuate” Noah and his family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! Noah and his family did NOT go airborne, but rather they were seaborne! God preserved Noah and his family IN THE MIDST OF horrible judgment [i.e., the great flood that He brought upon the whole Earth] without taking them off of the planet!
The above examples remind me of a beautiful Bible verse: “When thou passest THROUGH the waters, I [Ed.: i.e., the Lord God Almighty] [will be] with thee; and THROUGH the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest THROUGH the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.” (Isaiah 43:2)
Again, preservation IN THE MIDST OF danger, persecution, and tribulation is a great theme that we can clearly see in the Bible – and NOT “aerial evacuation” OFF OF planet Earth to avoid danger, persecution, and tribulation. We must keep in mind that there are times when Almighty God chooses not to deliver His servants, such as Stephen, who was stoned to death. Additionally, after Judas Iscariot perished, all of the apostles except John were murdered!
6) Luke 17:34-37: “I [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. (Verse 35): Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 36): Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 37): And they answered and said unto Him, ‘Where, Lord?’ And He said unto them, ‘Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.’” (Compare Matthew 24:28.)
Some Pre-Trib writers use Luke 17:34-36 (or, Matthew 24:40, 41) as an alleged “proof text” for the Pre-Trib Rapture! But they IGNORE Luke 17:37, where the Lord Jesus Christ tells His disciples that these people, who are “taken away”, have eagles gathering around their bodies! That sounds like those who were taken away were NOT “raptured” (an ASSUMPTION made by Pre-Trib’ers), but rather that these individuals were taken away in judgment and killed. (Why else would eagles be gathering around their bodies?) Please remember that in Matthew 13:30 and 39-42 that Jesus Christ said that the “tares” (i.e., the “bad guys”) are gathered FIRST (Matthew 13:30) and then burned!
7) Luke 17:26-30: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. (Verse 27): They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Verse 28): Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; (Verse 29): But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. (Verse 30): Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
The Lord Jesus Christ is comparing His “Second Coming” to the time of the flood in Noah’s day, and also to the time of Lot (when fire rained down on Sodom). In Noah’s day the flood came and “took away” the “bad guys”. And, as was pointed out earlier, Noah and his family were not “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the flood. Also, on the very same day that Lot went out of Sodom, fire rained down upon that city. And again, it was the “bad guys” who were “removed” in that judgment of Almighty GOD! Interestingly, Lot also was NOT “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE Sodom was destroyed! Thus neither Noah nor Lot can serve as “examples” of Pre-Tribulation-Rapture-type deliverance. Both were preserved IN THE MIDST of God’s judgment on evildoers, who were “removed” by God’s judgment!
8) Mark 13:20: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.”
I believe that most Bible scholars would agree that here we find the Lord Jesus Christ talking about the “Tribulation”. If the “elect” (i.e., believers) have been “raptured” out BEFORE the “Tribulation”, then why does God have to shorten “those days” for their sakes? (The Pre-Trib’ers might say that the “elect” here must be those “who are saved during the 7-year tribulation”. This is another ASSUMPTION made by Pre-Trib’ers with no Scriptural backing!)
9) Revelation 13:4-7: “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, ‘Who [is] like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?’ (Verse 5): And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. (Verse 6): And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Verse 7): And it was given unto him to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
Most Bible scholars agree that the “him” and “he” found in verses 5, 6, and 7 refer to the Antichrist. In verse 7 we see that he [the Antichrist, according to most Bible scholars] was given [power] “to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them”. Many Bible scholars believe that these events are taking place during the end-times’ “Tribulation”. Well, if believers have been raptured out before the end-times’ “Tribulation”, then upon which “saints” is the Antichrist making war? Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that these “saints” must be those persons who are saved during the “7-year tribulation”, after the Pre-Trib believers had been “air evacuated” in their Pre-Trib Rapture. But the Bible does NOT say this! Again, it is another dangerous ASSUMPTION, because if this assumption, and the many other assumptions the Pre-Trib’ers make (some of which have been noted in this newsletter) are WRONG, then many Christians may be quite shocked to find that they are the ones upon whom the Antichrist is making war, and that they are here on planet Earth DURING the end-times’ “Tribulation”! (The historical Antichrist – the Papacy – has long waged war on God’s saints!)
And while we are here in the book of Revelation, let us address an argument that Pre-Trib’ers put forth, i.e., that from Revelation 3:22 through Revelation 22:16 the word “church” does not appear, thus the “church” must have been “raptured” out, and is not on planet Earth during the “end-times’ 7-year tribulation” (per Pre-Trib’ers). Well, using such “logic”, the word “synagogue” is not mentioned either in those same verses, so there must not be any Jews being saved either during the “Tribulation” (i.e., no 144,000 Jewish “Billy Grahams” as some Pre-Trib’ers speculate). If folks are “getting saved” during the “Tribulation”, then why wouldn’t they have the same title of “the church” as have believers of any other period since Christ’s time here on Earth?
10) Revelation 20:4-6: “And I [Ed.: i.e., the Apostle John] saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Verse 5): But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS [IS] THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (Verse 6): Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”
Nearly all Bible scholars agree that there has never been a time when large numbers of Christians were BEHEADED, and that this occurs during the “end-times’ Tribulation”. Again, if the “church” has been “air evacuated” off of planet Earth, then who are these folks getting beheaded for “the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God”? Well, again, Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that “those being beheaded” must be people who are “saved during the end-times’ tribulation”. But again, the Bible does NOT state such a thing anywhere, and such ASSUMPTIONS may prove quite dangerous to those who embrace them!
11) Revelation 7:9, 13 and 14: (Verse 9): “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; …(Verse 13): And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, ‘What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they?’ (Verse 14): And I said unto him, ‘Sir, thou knowest.’ And he said to me, ‘These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb’.”
Here we see large numbers of people of ALL nations who have come out of “great tribulation”. Again we ask: “HOW were large numbers of people getting saved during ‘great tribulation’ if the ‘church’ and the Holy Spirit of God had been previously removed [as Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME and ALLEGE]?”
12) II Thessalonians 2:1-4: [Ed.: The Apostle Paul wrote]: “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto Him, (Verse 2): That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand [Ed.: i.e., near in time; not distant]. (Verse 3): Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day [Ed.: i.e., the day of Christ] shall not come], EXCEPT there come a falling away [Ed.: Greek: apostasia] FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Verse 4): Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
NOTE: Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language defines the term “at hand” thusly: “near; either present or within reach, or not far distant”. It then lists as an example “the day of Christ is at hand” from the above Bible passage, stating that “at hand” in this context means “near in time; not distant”.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I am listing the above Bible passage only because it refutes the Pre-Trib’ers’ own “air evacuation” Rapture timing (i.e., as occurring prior to THEIR exclusively future, single, “Mr. Nasty Antichrist” appearing in the end times, with a pig under his arm, who enters into a “rebuilt Jewish Temple” to sacrifice that pig). I believe that the Antichrist has clearly been identified in Holy Scripture as the Papacy. This does NOT mean that I do not believe that there will be an “end time” leader of the Antichrist system, for there surely must be. However, I believe that this “end-time” leader will either be the top man in the Jesuit-controlled Vatican, or a titular sovereign that this end-time leader will put forward as his “front man”. (Please see my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, on website www.toughissues.org.)
Paul wrote II Thessalonians 2:1-4 to specifically warn folks NOT to allow themselves to become deceived about Christ’s second coming being “right around the corner” (i.e., imminent), or as Webster’s 1828 Dictionary puts it: “near in time; not distant”. Again, I believe that the key Bible passage dealing with the timing of the “rapture” is I Thessalonians 4:15-17. Indeed, the “key” to understanding the timing of the “rapture” is an understanding of the “resurrection”. I highly recommend that the reader of this newsletter check all occurrences of the word “resurrection” in a good concordance, and then carefully read all the Bible verses and passages that contain this important word.
Most folks agree this “man of sin – the son of perdition” is the Antichrist. This “day [of Christ]” (that the Apostle Paul is talking about in verse 3) is shown in verse 1 to be the “coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”, and “our gathering together to Him”. The plain teaching of verse 3 is that NONE of those events take place until there first occurs both a “falling away” [i.e., an APOSTASY] and the revealing of “that man of sin – the son of perdition”! And so, IF one does subscribe to the Pre-Trib theory that “the Antichrist” is an exclusively future, “Mr. Nasty-to-the-extreme” individual who is to come on the scene in the very “end times”, then the above passage would clearly refute the idea that “the Church” is “air evacuated” prior to this “Mr. Nasty” person being revealed.
At least one Pre-Trib Rapture writer has tried to “explain away” the words “first, and” in verse 3 above, saying that they don’t really mean what they say. At least one Pre-Trib writer has tried to say that the “falling away” [Greek: apostasia] is really the “Pre-Trib Rapture” (such twisting of both Scripture and the meanings of Greek and English words, sadly, occurs far too often among Pre-Trib authors). The Greek word “apostasia” is used in such contexts as a “falling away” from, for example, the “truth” – never in the context of “falling away from the earth up to heaven”. (NOTE: Webster’s New World Dictionary, Second College Edition (1974) defines the word “apostasy” as “an abandoning of what one believed in, as a faith, political party, principles, etc.”)
The clear meaning of verse 3 is that Christ’s return to gather His saints cannot occur until AFTER “the Antichrist” has been revealed. Yet Pre-Trib writers state that the Church is evacuated out before THEIR exclusively future, single, “Mr. Nasty Antichrist” person is revealed!
By now some Pre-Trib’ers may be saying, “The poor writer of this newsletter just doesn’t understand that Christ’s Second Coming is in TWO phases: the ‘Rapture’ and the ‘Revelation’, with the ‘Rapture’ coming BEFORE the tribulation, and the ‘Revelation’ coming AFTER the tribulation.” Well, let’s address such an argument now: Let me ask Pre-Trib’ers who advocate a “two-phased” Second Coming of Christ this: “Was Christ’s First Coming in TWO phases?” The answer is “No!” And there are absolutely no Scripture verses to be found that support the idea of a “two-phased” Second Coming of Jesus Christ! As Jesus Christ left this earth after His resurrection, and as He was ascending up to heaven, His watching disciples were told: “…This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in LIKE MANNER AS ye have seen Him go into heaven.” (See Acts 1:11) Well, did Jesus Christ have a “TWO-phased” departure from earth into heaven after His “first coming”? Did He go up part of the way, turn around and come back down, and then go back up all the way on a “SECOND” departure? NO! Jesus Christ simply ascended up (in ONE phase) into heaven! And the Bible says that He is coming back in LIKE MANNER!
III. THE HISTORICAL RECORD
Actually, the historical record of some of the “futurist” elements found in “Dispensationalism”, a system of Biblical interpretation that has been used to mightily promote both the Pre-Trib Rapture and the “exclusively future” antichrist, goes all the way back to the Counter-Reformation movement launched by the JESUITS around the time of the Council of Trent (1545-1563). (Note: The Counter-Reformation was launched to first slow down, and then eventually to destroy, the Protestant Reformation – and the “fruit” that it had produced.)
Since the top Protestant Reformers had all identified “Papal Rome” – and more specifically, the Papacy – as the Antichrist found in the pages of Holy Scripture, the Jesuits had to find a way to take the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy. Steve Wohlberg, on page 114 of his book, “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”, tells us:
“At the Council of Trent [Ed.: 1545-1563], papal leaders and JESUITS brainstormed about how to counteract Protestantism and bring defectors back to the mother church. Behind closed doors, they decided this was to be done, not only through the Inquisition and torture, but also through THEOLOGY. What kind of theology? Here’s the answer: By reinterpreting the prophecies about ‘the man of sin’, ‘the little horn’, and ‘the beast’!
Two very intelligent Spanish JESUITS rose to the challenge: Luis de Alcasar (1554-1613) of Seville and Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) of Salamanca. Their strategy was, in a nutshell, one of reapplication and diversion, yet they went in opposite directions. After reading the Bible by candlelight like Martin Luther did, [Jesuit Luis de] Alcasar decided to apply the Bible’s antichrist prophecies to the ancient past while [Jesuit Francisco] Ribera applied them to the distant future. ‘Smart move!’ was the response from [Papal] Rome. By reapplying these prophecies to the past and to the future instead of to the present, these two tricky JESUIT scholars sought to divert the prophetic finger light years away from the Vatican. Their views quickly became official positions within the Roman [Catholic] Church – even though these two views contradicted each other!”
Isn’t it interesting that we find a “JESUIT” hand involved in concocting at least some of the “futurist” elements found in Dispensationalism and its Pre-Trib Rapture? First we find the “hand” of Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera. And then we find the “hand” of Chilean Jesuit Emmanuel Lacunza. As stated in the “Definitions” section under the term “Lacunza, Emmanuel”:
“Emmanuel Lacunza was a Chilean JESUIT who wrote the four-volume book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’. He was born in 1731, and he died in 1801. Lacunza had used the pseudonym of Rabbi Juan Josafat Ben Ezra for his book in order to deceive Protestants into thinking that it had been written by a Messianic [i.e., “Converted”] Jew, thus for a time concealing its JESUIT origins! Lacunza’s book provided at least some of the ingredients for the largely fictional prophetic concoction that is today called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture – a doctrine that is one of the pillars of ‘Dispensationalism’.” Please remember that Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving “supervised” the translation of Jesuit Lacunza’s book into English!
It is also worth repeating in this section a paragraph from the “Definitions” section concerning the history of the Pre-Trib Rapture:
“The [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture has its origins in the nineteenth century – beginning, according to one critic [Ed.: i.e., author Dave MacPherson], with a young girl’s vision. In 1830, in Port Glasgow, Scotland, fifteen-year-old Margaret MacDonald attended a healing service. There, she was said to have seen a vision of a two-stage return of Jesus Christ. The story of her vision was adopted and amplified by John Nelson Darby, a British evangelical preacher and founder of the Plymouth Brethren.” – Barbara R. Rossing (“The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 22)
It seems that the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint did not really catch on anywhere until at least the 1830s. It seems to have made its “official debut” in England, and then made its way across the Atlantic Ocean to the USA with the help of John Nelson Darby. Until that time, the prevailing prophetic viewpoint among Christians in the USA was the Post-Trib Rapture view. Dave MacPherson, in his book, “The Incredible Cover-Up”, traces the origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine back to the British Isles, where we find such characters as a Scottish lassie named Margaret MacDonald, Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, and John Nelson Darby. Dave MacPherson does a great job of showing the “British” origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine; however, certain “futurist” elements used in Dispensationalism and Pre-Trib actually go back slightly farther in history, to Jesuits Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza.
This British “creation” of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine was later popularized in the USA by the “Scofield Study Bible”. It is not within the scope (i.e., limited space) of this newsletter to go more deeply into the historical side of the “Rapture debate”. If the reader wishes to do more research on the history of the Pre-Trib Rapture, then contact “Christian Media” at 1-541-899-8888 for information on the Dave MacPherson books that they offer through their ministry. It is important to keep in mind that Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera helped to promote the “futurist” view of the “exclusively future, end-time, single antichrist” in order to take the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy, which had been fingered as the “Antichrist” seen in Scripture by the Protestant Reformers!
(The “notes” in the Scofield Study Bible strongly promote “dispensational” viewpoints, including the Pre-Trib Rapture. Scofield’s notes were largely responsible for some of these new “futuristic” prophetic viewpoints (portions of which were developed by several Roman Catholic Jesuits), along with the Pre-Trib Rapture, “taking off” here in the USA! The 314-page hardback book, “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” by Joseph M. Canfield, reveals much about both Cyrus I. Scofield and his dispensational belief system. As author Loraine Boettner states concerning this book: “This is one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensational system.”)
IV. SOME MORE RELEVANT QUOTATIONS:
“The [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture has become embedded in American Christian culture today, but the idea of the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture is less than two hundred years old.” – Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 21)
“…NO passage anywhere in the New Testament explicitly puts before the tribulation a single one of the constituent elements: coming of Christ, resurrection, translation, gathering, catching up, and reception of saints.
…Yet the New Testament does tell us explicitly that Christ will come again after the tribulation, that saints will rise from the dead after the tribulation, and that the elect will be gathered after the tribulation – and [the Apostle] Paul uses their being gathered synonymously with their being caught up (compare 1 Thess. 4:16-17 with 2 Thess. 2:1) and puts the translation of some together with the resurrection of others (1 Cor. 15:15-52).” – [Dr. Robert] “Bob” Gundry (“First the Antichrist”; 1997; Pages 72, 73)
“The Lord Jesus Christ did NOT say [that] He would return twice; He said [that] He would return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation. (See Matthew 24:29)” – Lisa Ruby (“GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Page 62)
“…I am compelled to warn all Christians trusting in the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] rapture of the foolishness of such a course.” – James Lloyd (“The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism”; 1999; Page 3)
“Furthermore, many, many Christians simply don’t want to be told [Ed: emphasis in original] that they might be forced to endure ‘The Great Tribulation’ described in The Bible” – James Lloyd (“The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism”; 1999; Page 3)
“I’ve been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China the Christians were told, ‘Don’t worry, before the tribulation comes, you will be translated – raptured.’ Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a bishop from China say, sadly, ‘We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first.’
Turning to me he said, ‘You still have time. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when tribulation comes – to stand and not faint.’
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation…
Since I have gone already through prison for Jesus’ sake, and since I met that bishop from China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think ‘Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation.’ Then I write it down and learn it by heart.” – Corrie ten Boom (a wonderful Christian lady)
“…The leaders of the underground church [Ed.: in Red China] said they didn’t want American missionaries to come and preach the ‘foolish doctrine of the rapture’.” – Brother Andrew (author of “God’s Smuggler”; missionary to Red China and Russia; quote taken from page 35 of the book, “I WANT To Be Left Behind”, by Pastor Ron Poch)
“…Until the mid-1800s and the preaching of [John Nelson] Darby and [Cyrus I.] Scofield, no one, whether Catholic or Protestant, had dreamed of an end-time escapism.
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Impe and other dispensationalists appeal to those who long for a certitude that they need not suffer one hour, not one moment of a long period of hardships.” – Dr. James M. Dunn (Baptist Joint Committee, Washington, D.C. – quote taken from page 35 of the book, “Forcing God’s Hand”, by Grace Halsell)
“In what may very well be the greatest tragedy of the last two centuries, the dispensational theorists have seized the reins of leadership in the ‘Church’, and as they have consolidated their power, they have widely programmed millions of church attendees into believing in something called the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] ‘rapture’.” – James Lloyd (“The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 1)
“Modern pre-tribbers who claim [that] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] doctrine was taught throughout the last two millennia make a mockery of massive historical data and basic scholarship.” – James Lloyd (“The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 22)
“Sadly, the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine has become the great evangelical escape clause for the avoidance of the end times.” – Steve Wohlberg (“End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 36)
“…To believe a false teaching such as ‘an any moment rapture’ is to belittle the sacrifice by those who have given their all.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 36)
V. INDIVIDUAL VIEWS ON THE TIMING OF THE RAPTURE
I personally do NOT KNOW of, nor have heard of, any individuals who held the Post-Trib viewpoint for many years, and then subsequently CHANGED to the Pre-Trib viewpoint after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer. NOR have I READ about any Post-Trib’ers doing that. However, I personally do know a fair number of individuals who had held the Pre-Trib viewpoint for many years, and then who later SWITCHED to the Post-Trib viewpoint after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer.
Examples of some men (who SWITCHED from the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint to the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint after heavy-duty Bible study on that prophetic topic, and/or after much prayer, and in at least one case, after a long fast) include (names are listed, hopefully, in alphabetical order):
(1) Pastor Dwight Kinman, author of the excellent book “The World’s Last Dictator”, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for almost 40 years. After carefully searching the Scriptures to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib (and began to publicly teach Post-Trib). His above-mentioned book promotes the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint.
(2) Pastor David W. Lankford (author and broadcast host) also had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. As the back cover of his excellent book, “The Second Coming: A Second Look”, states: “After weeks of fasting and prayer and diligent study of Scripture, Pastor Lankford’s long-held beliefs about The Second Coming were changed.”
(3) James Lloyd (author; publisher of two periodicals; broadcast host of “The Apocalypse Chronicles”) had believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for years. Study of the Bible convinced James that the Post-Trib viewpoint was the correct one! James has written four books dealing with the topic of Pre-Trib Rapturism! His website is www.ChristianMediaNetwork.com.
(4) G. Campbell Morgan, who was considered by some of his time as the greatest Christian scholar of his era, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. After in-depth study of the Holy Bible to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib. He felt so badly about having previously taught the Pre-Trib viewpoint, and about having written a book supporting Pre-Trib, that he purchased the plates to the book and destroyed them!
(5) Pastor Butch Paugh (author; and host of the “Call to Decision” broadcast) had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for years. Yet it was Bible study that convinced him that the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint is a FALSE doctrine. He now teaches the Post-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint over the “airwaves”, as well as to his two local congregations in West Virginia. His excellent Internet website is: www.calltodecision.com (the shorter title: www.pastorbutch.com). Pastor Butch Paugh has produced several audiocassette tape sets that deal with the “rapture” timing issue, and they are currently available through his ministry. You can call his ministry toll-free at 1-800-777-4403 for information on how to order those items via credit card.
(6) Pastor Ron Poch (author of the book “I WANT To Be Left Behind”) once believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, because that is what he had been taught at Bible College! He had the courage to admit that he had been wrong to believe the Pre-Trib Rapture, and that his teachers had been wrong to teach it!
(7) Jim Spillman (author, pastor, evangelist, and Bible scholar), who at one time pastored a very large church in California, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. After going into his prayer closet for several days, where he studied ONLY the Holy Bible in order to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he came to the conclusion that the Holy Bible clearly teaches the Post-Trib viewpoint. He then had the courage to go before his large congregation and ADMIT to them that he had been teaching them FALSE doctrine (i.e., the Pre-Trib viewpoint) for all those previous years! (That takes a lot of GUTS!)
Although I’ve already mentioned a number of books that REFUTE the Pre-Trib Rapture, this would be a good place to list all the books (which I personally possess) that provide good, sound arguments AGAINST the Pre-Tribulation Rapture prophetic viewpoint. (My recommendation of these books does not necessarily mean that I agree with everything that is written in each of them. I will try to list the books alphabetically by title.)
NOTE: You may have to do a search on the Internet or visit a good library to find some of these books. Some of them can be purchased at larger bookstore chains. Some of them are out of print, and may no longer be available, and/or prices may have changed. (Order information is provided only if I have such in my records.)
(1) “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World” by Steve Wohlberg; 2004; 220-page paperback book; Publisher: Treasure House; $18.45 postage paid. (To order this book via credit card, please call toll-free 1-800-78-BIBLE.)
(2) “First the Antichrist” by Dr. Robert H. (“Bob”) Gundry; 1997; 200-page paperback book; Publisher: Baker Books. (This book is currently out of print. I would suggest that you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
(3) “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth” by Grace Halsell; 1999; 132-page paperback book; Publisher: Crossroads International Publishing, Washington, D.C.
(4) “Invisible Scripture” by James Lloyd; 2006; 27-page paperback book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(5) “I WANT To Be Left Behind” by Pastor Ron Poch; 2002; 130-page paperback book; Publisher: Proclaim Liberty Ministries; $12 postage paid: To order a copy via credit card, please call toll-free 1-888-820-2126.
(6) “Lying in Laodicea: Rapturism Unmasked” by James Lloyd; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(7) “The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories” by Dave MacPherson; 1975; 166-page paperback book (1980 & 1991) published by Omega Publications, Medford, Oregon. (This book is currently out of print. I would suggest that you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
(8) “The Rapture Book: Victory in the End Times” by Dr. James McKeever; 1987; 225-page paperback book; Publisher: Omega Publications, Medford, Oregon. (This book is probably out of print. Search the Internet for used copies.)
(9) “The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism” by James Lloyd; 1999; 66-page book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(10) “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation” by Barbara R. Rossing; 2004; 222-page paperback book; Publisher: Basic Books. (I purchased my copy at a local Barnes & Noble bookstore.)
(11) “The Rapture Plot” by Dave MacPherson; 1994; 290-page paperback book; my edition was published in 1995 by MILLENNIUM III PUBLISHERS. (A newer, 300-page edition of this book is available through Christian Media for $22.25 postage paid. Make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.)
(12) “The Reckoning” by James Lloyd; 2007; 45-page paperback book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(13) “The Second Coming: A Second Look” by Pastor David W. Lankford; 1996; 95-page paperback book; Publisher: Wolf Publishing: Pastor Lankford’s book, along with a two-audiocassette tape set on the topic of the Second Coming, was available several years ago for $20 postage paid by calling phone number 704-263-1945, or by making check or money order in that amount payable to “The Voice of Evangelism”, and mailing it to: The Voice of Evangelism // P.O. Box 669 // Alexis, NC 28006. (NOTE: The price may have changed; I suggest that you call to find out the current price if you are interested in this book and tape set.)
(14) “The Three R’s: Rapture, Revisionism, Robbery: Pretribulation Rapturism from 1830 to Hal Lindsey” by Dave MacPherson; 1998; 149-page paperback book; Publisher: P.O.S.T., Inc.; $15 postage paid. Please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(15) “The World’s Last Dictator” by Dwight L. Kinman; Second Edition: 1995; 322-page paperback book; Publisher: Solid Rock Books, Inc., Woodburn, Oregon. (This book is probably out of print. I would suggest you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
And while we are talking about good books, here is an excellent book that exposes a number of the unscriptural teachings in the “Left Behind” series (a series of books and tapes that promote the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint):
“GOD’S WRATH on Left Behind: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the Left Behind Series” by Lisa Ruby; 216-page paperback; 2002; ISBN 0-9721264-0-6: Months ago she was giving her book away – you simply had to pay shipping and handling: For information on how to order this book, please visit her Internet website: www.libertytothecaptives.net.
Interestingly, many famous Christian men in the past believed in and taught Post-Trib [that is, that the “Church” goes through the Tribulation period], including Charles H. Spurgeon, John Bunyan (author of “Pilgrim’s Progress”), John Calvin, Charles Finney, John Knox, Martin Luther, and George Whitefield.
Interestingly, NONE of these following learned Christians ever made any reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture: John Wycliffe, or John or Charles Wesley.
Interestingly, there seem to be NO records of the great pastors of the American Revolution (such as Jonas Clark, John Peter Gabriel Muhlenburg, James Caldwell, etc.) ever making ANY reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Most interestingly, NONE of the following ever made ANY mention in the Holy Bible to the Pre-Trib evacuation of Christians BEFORE the alleged “future 7-year tribulation” and appearance of the end-time antichrist: (1) the Lord Jesus Christ, (2) the Apostle Paul, (3) the Apostle Peter, and (4) the Apostle John! Nor did they make ANY mention of the Mid-Trib/Pre-Wrath Rapture! Doesn’t it seem strange that there is NOT ONE SINGLE verse of Scripture that declares something like the following HYPOTHETICAL “statements”?
(1) “Verily, immediately prior to the start of the seven-year period of the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(2) “Verily, seven years before the Revelation of Jesus Christ [the alleged 2nd part of His alleged two-stage 2nd Coming], the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(3) “Verily, three and one half years into the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth – just prior to the beginning of God’s Wrath!”
No, there is NOT EVEN ONE such Bible verse, or even one verse that closely resembles those hypothetical statements, to be found in the Holy Bible!
Interestingly, John F. Walvoord, a leader in the Pre-Trib Rapture movement and author of a number of books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, admitted that there was NOT ONE SINGLE Bible verse that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture!
VI. A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION
I would like to ask a question here that Pre-Trib’ers never seem to ask themselves – because I have never seen it addressed in their writings.
Why would any end-time believers in Jesus Christ be taken off the planet in the alleged Pre-Trib Rapture (so that they would not have to face the horrors that occur during the “end-times’ tribulation”), when so many other Christians have faced horrible persecution and tribulation throughout Church history? The horrors of Papal Rome’s monstrous Inquisition come to mind. The horrible persecution of the Scottish Covenanters comes to mind. The horrible persecution of the Albigenses, Waldenses, and French Huguenots by Papal Rome comes to mind. The horrible persecution of early Christians by several of the Roman emperors comes to mind. Why in blazes would there be a “special class” of Christians in the “end times” that is exempt from horrible persecution?
Yes, I do know the arguments of the Pre-Trib’ers:
1. “God would not allow His bride (the Church) to go through the horrible end-times’ tribulation period, where ‘she’ would be bloodied.”
2. “God has not appointed us to wrath, so we Christians living in the ‘end times’ will NOT have to go through the end-times’ tribulation period.”
The Pre-Trib’ers apply such good things only to themselves – i.e., they won’t have to go through the “end-times’ tribulation” because they haven’t been “appointed to wrath”, and because they are the “bride of Christ”. However, these same Pre-Trib’ers believe that those people who get saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” (under more stressful conditions than many of those “air evacuated” Christians ever had to face) – well, those “saved-during-the-end-times’-tribulation” believers do NOT get to be spared from “God’s wrath”, because they are evidently NOT as much a part of “Christ’s bride” as those Christians who were “raptured” prior to the start of the “end-times’ tribulation”! What is wrong with this “picture”? I Thessalonians 5:9 lets us know that God has not appointed any believers (including those who go through the “end-times’ tribulation”) to [His] wrath, but rather “to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”. The Pre-Trib’ers surely are getting the “Antichrist’s wrath” MIXED UP with “God’s wrath” during the “end-times’ tribulation”, and ASSUME they won’t be facing the “Antichrist’s wrath” during that period. All that “nasty stuff” is reserved for those “other” Christians who get saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” (according to the Pre-Trib’ers). Again, HOW IN BLAZES can this group of Pre-Trib’ers think that they are going to get a massive “break” from horrible persecution and evil during the “end-times’ tribulation” when MILLIONS of Christians in other centuries faced the most horrible persecution, and quite likely MILLIONS of Christians will be martyred by the Antichrist system in the future? I personally cannot figure out this Pre-Trib “logic” – but I do think that the Pre-Trib Rapture is “illogical ESCAPISM to the maximum degree”, thrown in with a lot of ignorance of key Bible verses – along with some fantastic twisting and “torturing” of other Bible verses!
The following quotation from Steve Wohlberg’s book, “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”, is quite revealing. Steve Wohlberg states: “Could it be that the idea of escaping tribulation is really only catering to our lukewarm American tendencies? We like comfort; hate to go through trials; and can hardly bear it when our TV-dinner lifestyle is threatened. Yet historically, God’s people have gone through intense suffering. All the disciples of Jesus [Christ], except John, were brutally murdered. Thousands of early Christians were torn to shreds by wild dogs inside the Coliseum. Millions of others were horribly tortured by the Inquisition and burnt to ashes during the Dark Ages. …Believers in Russia and [Red] China have suffered terribly under communism, and yet American Christians say, ‘God wouldn’t allow us to go through the tribulation!’”
VII. BAD FRUIT
I have heard Pre-Trib’ers say that the “imminent” [i.e., “at any moment”] return of the Lord Jesus Christ makes them serve the Lord more fervently. That may be true for some Pre-Trib’ers, as I do personally know one Pre-Trib Rapture pastor who is really fighting hard against corruption and tyranny.
However, many of the Pre-Trib’ers (whom I personally know) use the Pre-Trib Rapture as an excuse to sit back, and to do absolutely nothing to fight against corruption and tyranny. I’ve heard: “Why should I care about the evil movement towards one-world government, etc., that we see today – don’t you know, I’m going to be out of here in the ‘rapture’ BEFORE things really get bad.” I’ve heard that, and similar statements, from many Pre-Trib’ers who are just sitting around, NOT opposing corruption and tyranny, waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to “air evacuate” them out BEFORE things get really “hairy” [i.e., dangerous]. Another statement I’ve heard is this: “Don’t resist the New World Order, because, don’t you know, it’s all been prophesied.” Such thinking on the part of many Pre-Trib’ers does not “square” with numerous Biblical admonitions to expose evil and to fight against it! (For example, please see Ephesians 5:11.)
VIII. SUMMARY
1. As Pre-Trib writer and leader John Walvoord admits, there is NO SINGLE verse of Scripture that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture.
2. Pre-Trib’ers FORCE ASSUMPTIONS on many key Bible verses – especially assuming that all references to “saints” and to the “elect” (who are being persecuted and martyred during the “end-times’ tribulation”) must refer to “those individuals who are saved” AFTER the Pre-Trib Rapture has taken place. (Again, how are all these folks getting saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” if the “Church” and the “restrainer” [i.e., the Holy Spirit according to Pre-Trib’ers] have been removed?)
3. We are NOT able to find one single instance in the New Testament where the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, or the Apostle John made any statement to the effect that “the church is to be evacuated off of planet Earth seven years PRIOR to the beginning of the end-times’ tribulation period”. Isn’t that a bit strange if the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is the correct one?
4. Despite taking several texts OUT OF CONTEXT from a few early church fathers’ writings, the Pre-Trib’ers really CANNOT find any predominant, popular teaching that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint in any era of Church history prior to the 1830s.
5. Many learned men of the Christian faith, such as John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield, etc., were all solid Post-Trib believers!
6. The Pre-Trib Rapture is a very big “cash cow” for Pre-Trib writers. Yet, there are some Pre-Trib’ers who will admit that the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is still a minority viewpoint among Bible scholars. How can that be, you may ask, since so many prophecy books favor the “Pre-Trib” viewpoint? That is because so many of the major “Christian” publishing houses are, for the most part, CONTROLLED by “liberal Christians”. Post-Trib writers often find it extremely hard to get their books published by these publishing houses, because Pre-Trib “sells”. (Could that be because the Pre-Trib Rapture appeals to an “escapist” mentality? It’s that mentality of “I sure don’t want to be here when the Antichrist takes over!” The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint appeals to our “flesh” – after all, who wants to face persecution?) Also, Dr. Robert “Bob” Gundry says that most of the professors [at Bible colleges] that he knows hold the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint. He adds that even some of the professors at Bible colleges of the “Pre-Trib Rapture persuasion” hold the Post-Trib viewpoint, but cannot say so publicly for fear of losing their positions! Students who openly advocate Post-Trib at these “Pre-Trib Bible colleges” might not be allowed to graduate!
7. Despite the fact that many Pre-Trib’ers dislike author Dave MacPherson, they have NOT been able to disprove his well-documented findings that show that the Pre-Trib Rapture’s origins (as far as any public teaching) date back to the 1830s – and not earlier than that era! Nor have the Pre-Trib’ers been able to disprove MacPherson’s findings that the vast majority of the early church fathers taught that the church would go THROUGH the “end-times’ tribulation” – and lots of tribulation along the way to the “end-times’ tribulation”.
8. Public teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture originated in the British Isles during the 1830s. (The Jesuits did some “futurist creativity” in the prophetic arena many years prior to that time.) The Pre-Trib “theory” was then “transported” to America a little bit later, and was popularized by the “Scofield Study Bible”.
9. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, one must ignore several key Bible verses that speak directly against the Pre-Trib Rapture, such as John 17:15 where the Lord Jesus Christ Himself prays that the Father NOT take believers OUT OF the world – and I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 (which says that the Christians living at the time of Jesus Christ’s return are not caught up UNTIL AFTER the “dead in Christ” are raised “FIRST”)!
10. Believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture, it seems to me, goes AGAINST the prevalent theme of those portions of the Bible that deal with tribulation and persecution. That prevalent theme is “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. (Please recall the accounts of Daniel in the lions’ den, and of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the fiery furnace!)
11. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, you have to ASSUME that you will be among a very “select group” of Christians who will not have to suffer horrible things during the “end-times’ tribulation”. Your “select group” excludes those MILLIONS of Christians from past centuries who were NOT “air evacuated” out of their tribulation and suffering, and the many individuals who get “saved” (i.e., are “born again”) during the “end-times’ tribulation”, and who will suffer martyrdom!
12. The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, for the most part, seems to produce very BAD FRUIT – that is, it seems to have “neutralized” many Christians living today, causing them to sit back and to NOT fight evil. (And that’s, because, don’t you know, they won’t be here when things get really bad.) Could this “doctrine” have been specifically designed to “neutralize” Christians?
IX. FINAL THOUGHTS:
The Scripture verses alone that I have placed in this newsletter ought to be sufficient to show any individual with an “open mind” that the Pre-Trib Rapture is NOT taught in the Holy Bible.
The historical record that I have presented in this newsletter ought to raise some serious questions among those who preach and teach the Pre-Trib Rapture that there is something seriously wrong here. The Jesuit Order has for years tried to undermine the Protestant Reformation, with the ultimate goal of DESTROYING it. They have used a number of “tools” to accomplish their goal – and two of their best “tools” have been:
(1) INFILTRATION of Protestant, independent Baptist, and independent fundamentalist schools, seminaries, societies, associations, organizations, and fellowships; and,
(2) AUTHORING and INSERTING portions of “futurist” doctrines (such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and an “exclusively future ‘Mr. Nasty’ Antichrist”), via the Pre-Trib Rapture, into Protestant, independent Baptist, and independent fundamentalist “circles” that NEUTRALIZE many Bible-believing Christians, causing them to feel “warm, fuzzy, safe, and secure” when, in fact, they are in great danger, and therefore ought to be fighting evil! (Please see Ephesians 5:11, Psalm 94:16, and Ezekiel 22:30, 31.)
Let me ask you pastors and preachers, who have been teaching and preaching the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint to your “flocks”, a couple of very “tough” questions:
(1)“How does it make you feel to know that you have been deceived by some Jesuits, such as Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza, into believing a lot of ‘futurist’ doctrine found within ‘Dispensationalism’, to include a ‘future seven-year tribulation period’ and an ‘exclusively future single Antichrist’ (that wonderfully succeeded in taking the ‘SPOTLIGHT’ off of the Papacy as the historical Antichrist found on the pages of Holy Scripture) – beliefs that are pillars of Dispensationalism and its Pre-Trib Rapture?”
(2) “What are you going to do now that you know the TRUTH?”
Here is something else for those who teach or preach the Pre-Trib Rapture to think about: Your promotion of this doctrine could cause some Christians (who are taught it) to believe that they are in no danger from an Antichrist system that will be targeting Protestants and independent, Bible-believing Christians for DESTRUCTION. How would you feel if you met these folks in heaven – folks who had not taken appropriate measures to defend themselves and their families, and had to watch as murderous thugs raped, tortured, and murdered their family members in front of their very eyes – all because they thought they “wouldn’t be here” when that end-time tribulation occurs – based upon what you taught?
Throughout almost 2000 years of Christian history, MILLIONS of Christians have suffered through horrible persecution and tribulation! MILLIONS of these same Christians were martyred for their steadfast faith in Jesus Christ, and for their refusal to deny their true King! MILLIONS of these Christians were also martyred because they refused to bow to Papal Rome and her false claims of total authority over all Christians in the world! TWO QUESTIONS: (1) Is it not the “height of arrogance” for you believers in the Pre-Trib Rapture to think that you will be part of a relatively small, “special class” of Christians (i.e., those who are living during the “end times”) who alone of all generations of Christians are to be spared horrible persecution and tribulation? (2) What makes YOU so special and so much more worthy to be “protected” than earlier generations of Christians?
One more “final thought”: I would like to repeat a portion of author Lisa Ruby’s comments concerning the “Left Behind” series (which appeared earlier in the “Definitions” section of this newsletter), along with a few comments:
“…Even more disturbing is that the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors’ depiction of the happenings at the outset of the tribulation parallel what is actually planned [Ed.: emphasis in original] by the New World Order elitists. …There will be mass disappearances around the world that might be reported by the media as occurring simultaneously, but they will NOT occur because Jesus Christ has taken His people from the earth in a secret, pre-tribulation rapture that He NEVER promised. The horrific happenings [that] the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors portrayed as being caused by Jesus rapturing His people from the earth before the tribulation is WITHOUT any scriptural foundation. …The ‘Left Behind’ series sends the message that if you hear of mass disappearances [Ed.: during the “tribulation”] you should not suspect that any foul play occurred.” (From Lisa Ruby’s book “GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Pages 61 and 64)
My comments concerning the above quotation:
(1) Could it just be that the “Left Behind” series of books and movies – along with a multitude of other books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture – have “programmed” MILLIONS of Americans to sit back and not be concerned when the “enforcers” of the Jesuit-controlled, tyrannical, “one-world government” begin causing the “disappearances” of thousands upon thousands of Bible-believing Christians and patriots (who had showed signs of opposing their one-world government and one-world religion)? Will many of these “programmed” Americans ASSUME that the mass “disappearances” are due to the Pre-Trib Rapture? Will some of these “programmed” Americans ASSUME that they have missed the Pre-Trib Rapture, and then fall into great despair?
(2) Many of these Pre-Trib-Rapture-“programmed” Americans currently are totally unprepared for those end-time events that will be orchestrated by the Antichrist system of one-world government and one-world religion!
P.S. (Added on September 28, 2007): The Pre-Trib Rapture is a prominent feature of “Dispensationalism” – which became popular in America in the mid 1800s. One of the books most responsible for the advancement of Dispensationalism in America was the “Scofield Reference Bible” (a.k.a. the “Scofield Study Bible”), whose notes were prepared by Cyrus I. Scofield. If you would like to learn more about the life of Cyrus I. Scofield, and about his famous “Study Bible”, then please get a copy of the book, “The Incredible Scofield and His Book”, by Joseph M. Canfield (1988; Ross House Books, Vallecito, California). Dr. Loraine Boettner describes this book as “one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensational system.” Boettner also states concerning Canfield’s book: “…If dispensationalists would read it carefully, perhaps half of them would turn from that system.” (You should be able to do a “google-style” search on the Internet to find a copy of this book.)
P.P.S. (Added on February 23, 2008): Some people, especially those who are ignorant of “Church” history and European history, will scoff at the idea that the Jesuits could have had anything to do with certain “futurist” elements in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. In my definition of the “Jesuit Order”, I stated that one of the Jesuits’ primary goals was “to roll back the Protestant Reformation”. In order to accomplish this objective, the Jesuits decided to use several key “tools”:
(1) Attempt to gain control of the political leadership of Protestant countries (e.g., through such means as “regime change”, bribery, extortion, placing their lackeys in key positions within the government, etc. – i.e., ruling the country from “behind the scenes”) – or by assassinating the head of State and replacing him or her with someone loyal to the Papacy);
(2) Attempt to violently overthrow the governments of some of these Protestant countries (e.g., through fomenting revolution and/or by actually invading the targeted country with military forces loyal to the Papacy);
NOTE: A good example of #2 was the attempted invasion of England by the Spanish Armada in 1588. The Spanish Armada had wanted to land Spanish troops on British soil, and these troops were to be assisted by armed Roman Catholics in the British Isles in overthrowing the government – and in the process placing England once again under Papal control! In fact, Pope Sixtus V [pope: 1585-90] promised Spanish King Philip II that the Papacy would provide financial support for this invasion. (If you doubt this, then please read the book “Jesuit Plots from Elizabethan to Modern Times” by Albert Close. This 194-page paperback book is only $8.95 postage paid. To order a copy, please make check or postal money order payable to “The Conversion Center”, and mail it to: The Conversion Center // P.O. Box 265 // Carthage, NC 28327-0265.)
(3) Attempt to gain control of the religious leadership of Protestant countries (e.g., through such means as bribery, extortion, placing their lackeys in key positions within Protestant churches, seminaries, religious societies and associations, etc.)
NOTE: A good example of this Jesuit INFILTRATION of religious associations and societies was the Oxford movement. Begun officially in 1833, the Oxford movement, led by John Henry Newman (who later became a Roman Catholic cardinal), issued 90 pamphlets/tracts that were intended to draw the Anglican Church much closer to Papal Rome’s doctrines. (The ultimate goal was to make Roman Catholicism once again the State religion in England.)
(4) Attempt to INSERT theological “viruses” (designed to neutralize true Christianity) into the doctrines of Protestant denominations and independent Bible-believing groups by having their undercover agents (i.e., “moles”) suggest various doctrinal views, such as in the realm of Bible prophecy.
NOTE: Some examples of #4 occurred in the realm of the exclusively “futurist” view of prophecy, where two Jesuits (i.e., Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza) and a papal undercover agent (i.e., John Henry Newman) helped provide certain key elements in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine (e.g., a “future 7-year tribulation period” and a “single, exclusively future, end-time Antichrist” that took the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy). Please consider the following quote by Pastor Ron Poch, taken from pages 121 and 122 of his book, “I WANT To Be Left Behind”, concerning numerous Reformers and scholars who subscribed to the “historicist” [or, historical] view of Bible prophecy:
“This [Ed.: historicist or historical] view [Ed.: of Bible prophecy] postulates that the Book of Revelation predicts events occurring from the 1st century up to our present day. This view, according to many theologians and reformers of the past, offers a freedom in the interpretation of the text in applying the prophecies to actual historical events that have taken place from the 1st century. The historical position [Ed.: of Bible prophecy] looks at Church history from the time of John the revelator to the culmination of all prophetic events, some even yet future.
It is very important to note that many reformers, men of God, teachers and Bible translators and scholars taught this [Ed.: historicist or historical] position concerning Bible prophecy. Many of the men on the following list did not agree on certain doctrinal beliefs, but they were all in general agreement concerning the interpretation of Daniel’s seventy weeks identifying the beast system as religious papal Rome and the ‘man of sin’ being none other than the Roman popes who had taken the name Vicar of Christ.
Here’s a partial list of those who subscribed to the ‘historicist view’ of [Bible] prophecy:
[1.] John Wycliffe, 1329-1383 – English ‘Morning star of the Reformation’
[2.] John Knox, 1514-1572 – Scottish Presbyterian reformer
[3.] William Tyndale, 1494-1536 – English reformer, translator, martyr
[4.] John Calvin, 1509-1564 – French reformer and theologian
[5.] Martin Luther, 1483-1546 – German theologian and reformer
[6.] Ulrich Zwingli, 1484-1531 – Swiss reformer
[7.] Philip Melanchthon, 1497-1560 – [Ed.: German Protestant Reformer] Composed the Augustine confession
[8.] Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727 – English scientist and Bible scholar
[9.] John Huss, 1373-1415 – Bohemian reformer [Ed.: and martyr – he was burned as a heretic]
[10.] John Foxe, 1516-1587 – English author of ‘Foxe’s Book of Martyrs’
[11.] Charles Wesley, 1708-1788 – English hymn writer [Ed.: and clergyman]
[12.] John Wesley, 1703-1791 – [Ed.: English clergyman and evangelist]; Founder of Methodism
[13.] Jonathan Edwards, 1703-1758 – American theologian
[14.] George Whitfield, 1714-1770 – English evangelist
[15.] Charles Finney, 1792-1875 – American evangelist
[16.] Charles H. Spurgeon, 1834-1892 – English Baptist pastor
[17.] Adam Clarke, 1762-1832 – Methodist theologian
[18.] Matthew Henry, 1662-1714 – Welch Bible scholar
[19.] John Bunyan, 1628-1688 – [Ed.: English writer and preacher]; Puritan author of ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’
[20.] Hudson Taylor, 1832-1905 – English founder of China Inland Mission
[21.] F.B. Meyer, 1847-1929 – English Baptist preacher
Reading the names of these notable God-fearing men should cause us to search out why they believed this [Ed.: historicist] prophetic viewpoint. We cannot casually dismiss their approach to [Bible] prophecy while embracing the position of Reformed theology that they propounded, which has stood the test of time.”
NOTE: If you would like to learn more about the Jesuit Order, then please order the book “The Secret History of the Jesuits” by Edmond Paris. This 206-page paperback book is only $11.35 postage paid. To order a copy by credit card, call “Chick Publications” at 1-909-987-0771. Also, you can visit the following websites (hopefully listed alphabetically) that have a lot of information on various topics concerning the “Vatican-Papacy-Jesuit-Knights of Malta Cabal” and/or concerning the doctrines, practices, and history of the Roman Catholic Church:
www.arcticbeacon.com (Greg Szymanski of the “Investigative Journal”): This website has numerous articles about Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order, including articles that deal with recent lawsuits against the Roman Catholic Church. Greg Szymanski is a journalist who worked in Rome, and who has carefully researched the operations of the Vatican. Many of the articles on this website were written by him. Various resources dealing with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order are available through this website.
www.bereanbeacon.org (Richard Bennett, author of “Catholicism East of Eden”): This website has articles and DVDs dealing with Roman Catholicism, to include an outstanding DVD entitled “The Inquisition” (that deals with the Roman Catholic Church’s torture and mass murder of Bible-believing Christians). Books are also available through this website on a wide range of topics dealing with Roman Catholic doctrine and practices – including two books containing the testimonies of former Roman Catholic priests and nuns.
www.chick.com (“Chick Publications”): This website offers many great resources that deal with the topic of Roman Catholicism, including several outstanding books (e.g., “The Secret History of the Jesuits” by Edmond Paris).
www.ChristianMediaNetwork.com (James Lloyd of “Christian Media”): This website will give you details on James Lloyd’s excellent book dealing with “Mary worship”, entitled “The Queen of Heaven”. (It will also give you information on how to obtain numerous resources that refute the “Pre-Trib Rapture”. Please “click on” the “catalog” marker on his homepage.)
www.ctwilcox.com (C.T. Wilcox, professional actor and author of “The Transformation of the Republic”): This website has a number of articles dealing with Papal Rome and her Jesuit Order. The 345-page paperback book, “The Transformation of the Republic” (2005), by C.T. Wilcox, can be ordered on this website. (This book deals with Papal Rome’s involvement in the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, the manhunt for arch conspirator John Harrison Surratt, and the trials of the conspirators in the aftermath of the assassination.)
www.gordoncomstock.com (“Gordon Comstock”): This website contains many articles and podcasts dealing with Papal Rome and her Jesuit Order, as well as recommended resources for additional research.
www.SpirituallySmart.com (Thomas Richards): This website contains numerous articles and videos dealing with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order. It also contains many photographs showing Papal Rome’s great power and influence in the world.
www.toughissues.org (Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT newsletters): This website contains numerous articles dealing with Papal Rome’s bloody history, the sinister activities of the Jesuit Order, and various Roman Catholic doctrines and practices (such as “mandatory celibacy for priests”, papal infallibility, auricular confession to an authorized priest, etc.).
www.vaticanassassins.org (Eric Jon Phelps, author of “Vatican Assassins”): This website contains many articles on the Jesuit Order. You can order Phelps’ “Vatican Assassins” CD-ROM on this website. Eric Jon Phelps is the preeminent researcher in America today on the Jesuit Order and the Knights of Malta religious-military order (both of which are controlled by the Jesuit Superior General).
www.vaticandesignexposed.com (John Daniel, author of “The Grand Design Exposed”): Information on how to order John Daniel’s 411-page paperback book, “The Grand Design Exposed”, can be found on this website. (This book provides important information on how the Jesuit Order took over both British and French Freemasonry, as well as showing Jesuit and other Roman Catholic involvement in fomenting and directing the French Revolution of 1789-1799.)
www.vyzygoth.com (“Vyzygoth”): This website contains some articles and recorded broadcasts that deal with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order.
CLOSING QUOTES:
“…Many of the Chinese Christians did not expect to have to give their lives during the ‘great purge’ by the Communist [Ed.: Chinese] insurgency. He [Ed.: i.e., Brother Andrew] said [that] while being tortured those [Ed.: Chinese Christian] saints were crying for the ‘rapture’ during their martyrdom. …What makes us better than those Chinese Christians? Don’t you think [that] they felt like they were going through ‘the great tribulation’?” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 35)
“We may not be asked or required to die a martyr’s death, but to believe a false teaching such as ‘an any moment rapture’ is to belittle the sacrifice by those who have given their all. Read ‘Foxe’s Book of Martyrs’ or ‘Jesus Freaks’ by DC Talk and ‘Voice of the Martyrs’ [that can be] found at your local Christian bookstore.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 36)
“If we continue believing in a wrong doctrine, we will effectively erect a stronghold in our mind that cannot be penetrated by truth.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 9)
CLOSING BIBLE VERSE:
“Who will rise up for me against the evildoers, or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?” (Psalm 96:16)
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
EXAMINING the TOUGH ISSUES
FACING CHRISTIANS TODAY!
Issue #8 // Originally published: February 24, 2003 // Editor: Darryl Eberhart
(Fifth Update – Massively Expanded Issue: through March 22, 2008)
“RAPTURE TIMING AND DISPENSATIONALISM”
(Originally published as: “Rapture Timing is Important!”)
VERY IMPORTANT COMMENT: If you read only one thing in this newsletter, then PLEASE read the Bible verses and passages in Section II. The sequence of events leading up to the “Rapture” of “end-time” Christians is clearly spelled out in the first four Bible passages listed in that section.
NOTE #1: All emphasis in this newsletter, unless otherwise noted, is by the editor of “Examining the Tough Issues (ETI)” and “Tackling the Tough Topics (TTT)” newsletters. All of my new, as well as updated, articles and newsletters are posted on these three websites: www.toughissues.org, www.pastorbutch.com, and www.gordoncomstock.com. (On the second website, please “click” on the “Tackling the Tough Topics” box in the left-hand column of their homepage. On the third website, at the top of their homepage, please “double click” on the “RESOURCES” box, and then “double click” on the “Tackling the Tough Topics” box. If you would like to print off copies of any of my newsletters and articles, then I would suggest that you print them off from the third website – since they should “print out” best from it.)
NOTE #2: All Bible verses quoted by this editor are taken from the Authorized King James Version (KJV). I have used “italics” for ALL the quotations that I have placed in this newsletter, including those from the Bible. When a KJV Bible verse is quoted in which “italics” were used in the original ONLY for those words supplied by the translators to clarify meanings, such words will still appear in “italics”; however, I have also placed such “KJV translator-supplied words” in BRACKETS, e.g., [the sins of]. Amplifying data that I personally am adding within or before the Bible verse will also be in BRACKETS; however, my amplifying data will NOT be in “italics”, and will be preceded by the abbreviation “Ed.” [for “editor”], e.g., [Ed.: i.e., Jesus Christ]. The reason: Sometimes in sending data electronically [e.g., via E-Mail], the “italics” is lost. In such a case, my added amplifying data [in brackets] could be distinguished from those original KJV italicized words [added by the translators to clarify meanings] by the “Ed.”
NOTE #3: The following abbreviations will be used throughout the text:
(1) “Pre-Trib” = The Pre-Tribulation (Rapture)
(2) “Post-Trib” = The Post-Tribulation (Rapture)
(3) “Pre-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture
(4) “Post-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in the Post-Tribulation Rapture.
NOTE #4: The “Pre-Trib Rapture” is but one piece of a larger “prophetic pie” called “Dispensationalism”. According to Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World” (2004; Page 129), Dispensationalism “is the theory that God deals with mankind in distinct periods or ages.” Wohlberg adds, “According to [Ed.: John Nelson] Darby, we’re now in the ‘Church Age’, which will conclude with the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture.” (More information on “Dispensationalism” is given in the “Definitions” section of this newsletter.)
ED. COMMENT added on September 30, 2007: I used to believe in the Pre-Tribulation (Pre-Trib) Rapture for many years. I had read a number of books supporting the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint by men like Hal Lindsay and John Walvoord. However, as I began my study through the entire Holy Bible, I discovered more and more Bible passages that clearly contradicted the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint! I also noticed that the teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture had neutralized MANY Bible-believing Christians whom I had personally met. It “neutralized” them because they used it as an “excuse” for NOT fighting evil! Thus, I decided in 2003 that this was a “tough issue” that needed to be “examined” – even if doing so would disturb some folks’ comfort zones. After all, TRUTH is far more important than any of our “comfort zones”.
ED. COMMENT added on October 14, 2007: Some people will criticize me for being “divisive” because I have written about what they perceive to be a “minor” issue of doctrine – one that they would say is not a “salvation” issue. However, ALL doctrine is important – and if someone is teaching a doctrine that is contradicted by the Holy Bible (as I believe that the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine is), and which also neutralizes Christians, then I MUST expose that doctrine.
Ed. Comment added on December 6, 2007: If you believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, then I would ask that you please read this newsletter with an open mind. (Please keep in mind that at one time I too believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture.) Whatever the current prevailing view on any topic is, it may not be correct. Please remember that at one time most people thought that the world was flat! Most of us have, at one time or another, been victims of misinformation and disinformation. We must never forget that one key element of the Jesuit-led Counter-Reformation is to INFILTRATE Protestant and independent, Bible-believing circles in order to “sow” false doctrine and false ideas in order to NEUTRALIZE true Christianity! Please consider the following quotes from the book of Proverbs:
(1) “He that answereth a matter before he heareth [it], it [is] folly and shame unto him.” (Proverbs 18:13)
(2) “[He that is] first in his own cause [seemeth] just [Ed.: i.e., right; correct; true]; but his neighbor cometh and searcheth him.” (Proverbs 18:17)
(3) “The heart of him that hath understanding seeketh knowledge…” (Proverbs 15:14 a.)
DEFINITIONS (Hopefully in alphabetical order):
NOTE #1: Please carefully read these “definitions” BEFORE reading the rest of this newsletter, since the “definitions” are critical to understanding (a.) the “players” who were involved in concocting and popularizing the Pre-Trib Rapture and, (b.) some of the “terms” that are used within the “dispensationalist camp”.
NOTE #2: I may not necessarily agree totally with every word of every “definition” given by some of the dictionaries and authors quoted within this section; however, what they have stated is given so that the reader of this newsletter can examine two or more “definitions” for some of the “key terms”.
NOTE #3: Bible prophecy is sometimes “layered” (i.e., it may have more than one application). Also, there are clearly “types” shown in the Bible (such as Moses being a “type” of Christ). Therefore, I may not necessarily agree with everything exactly as stated by some of these authors concerning their prophetic viewpoints as found within some of their definitions in this section. I would encourage the readers of this newsletter to prayerfully and carefully study through the entire Bible, and then form their own conclusions about Bible prophecy!
“Anti-” (Per “Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language”): “A preposition signifying ‘against’, ‘opposite’, ‘contrary’, or ‘IN PLACE OF’; used in many English words.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: One should carefully consider the particular meaning “in [the] place of” for the prefix “anti-” as concerns the term “anti-Christ” – i.e., one who sits “in [the] place of” Christ.
“Antichrist” (Per “VINE’S Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words”; 1985): “Antichrist [Greek: antichristos]…can mean either ‘against Christ’ or ‘instead of Christ’, or perhaps, combining the two, ‘one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ’…”
“Antichrist” (Per “Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language”): “A great adversary of Christ; the man of sin; described [in] I John 2:18; II Thessalonians [Chapter] 2; [and] Revelation [Chapter] 9. Protestants generally suppose this adversary to be the Papal power; and some divines [Ed.: i.e., clergymen] believe that, in a more general sense, the word extends to any persons who deny Christ or oppose the fundamental doctrines of Christianity.”
“Antichrist” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 89): “The word ‘antichrist’ literally means ‘opposed to’ or ‘IN THE PLACE OF’ Christ, and in its most subtle and diabolical manifestation it concerns something which [Ed.: or someone who] claims loyalty to Jesus [Christ] while really leading away from Him.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding three definitions: Leading Protestant Reformers (e.g., Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox, etc.) agreed that the Roman Pontiff [i.e., the pope of Rome] was clearly identified in Scripture as the “Antichrist”. (Please see my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, which can be viewed on the three Internet websites listed at the beginning of this newsletter.)
“Daniel’s 70th Week” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 96): “Prophecy teachers in our generation definitely apply the day-for-a-year principle to the famous 70th week of Daniel 9:27, which says, ‘And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice…to cease’ (Daniel 9:27 KJV). Based on the day-year truth, this ‘one week’ is really seven years. …Many prophecy scholars today – following the lead of J.N. Darby – have decided to sever this 70th week [of Daniel 9:27] from the first 69 weeks (creating an almost 2000 year gap or parenthesis), slide it down to the end times, and call it ‘the seven years of tribulation’. We have already analyzed the problems with this view, and have proven [that] it was really Jesus Christ who brought an end to the Jewish sacrificial system through His death on the cross. Net conclusion: [Ed.: There is] no seven-year tribulation.” (See also “Seven-Year Period of Tribulation” in this section.)
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: Incredibly, Pre-Trib Rapture teachers and writers take this prophecy in Daniel 9:27, which points to Jesus Christ, and apply it to a “future Antichrist”! As Steve Wohlberg states on page 46 of his book “End Time DELUSIONS” (2004): “After exactly three and a half years of holy ministry, Jesus Christ died on the cross, ‘in the midst of the week [in the middle of the seven years].’ At the exact moment of His death, ‘the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom…’ (Matthew 27:51) This act of God signified that all animal sacrifices at that moment ceased to be of value. Why? Because the Perfect Sacrifice had been offered!”
“Darby, John Nelson” (Per Dr. James M. Dunn, Baptist Joint Committee, Washington, D.C. – his quote is taken from page 35 of the book, “Forcing God’s Hand”, by Grace Halsell; Darby was the founder of the “Plymouth Brethren”:
“…Two men largely were responsible for giving a new interpretation to Scripture, called ‘Dispensationalism’. They said that saved Christians will be Raptured before the Tribulation.
John [Nelson] Darby [Ed.: 1800-1882], a former minister in the Church of England, became an ‘apostle and missionary’ for this dispensationalist belief. After traveling extensively in Europe, he began missionary journeys in the United States. He met with and influenced leaders of the New Bible and Prophecy Conference movement, which set the tone for the evangelical and fundamentalist movements in North America between 1875 and 1920.
Darby had direct contact with and considerable influence on such evangelical leaders as the Presbyterian James Brookes of Philadelphia; Dwight L. Moody of Chicago; the early evangelical author William E. Blackstone; as well as Cyrus Scofield, who published the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’.
Until the mid-1800s and the preaching of Darby and Scofield, no one, whether Catholic or Protestant, had dreamed of an end-time escapism.”
“Darby, John Nelson” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 127, 128): “John Nelson Darby (1800-1882)…[was] a brilliant lawyer, pastor, and theologian. …Darby’s contribution to the development of evangelical theology has been so great [that] he has been called ‘The Father of Modern Dispensationalism’. Yet John Nelson Darby, like [Ed.: Scottish Presbyterian minister] Edward Irving, not only became a champion for the pre-tribulation rapture idea…but also of a future antichrist who appears only after we [Ed.: Christians] disappear [Ed.: in the Pre-Trib Rapture]. Both teachings – a secret [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture and a future Mr. Ghastly [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist] – are now dispensational pillars.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author Dave Macpherson, Darby took his ideas for the “Pre-Trib Rapture” from Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, who had taken at least some of his ideas concerning the “Pre-Trib Rapture” from Scottish lassie Margaret Macdonald.
“Dispensation” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[Ed.: A dispensation is] a time period or epoch, whereby people are judged according to their personal relationship with God.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[Ed.: Dispensationalism is] a belief system that holds, among other things, that the signs of the Second Coming of Christ are clearly spelled out in Scripture and can be identified with current international events. This theology, less than 200 years old, was popularized by [Ed.: British evangelist] John [Nelson] Darby of England and in America by Cyrus Scofield, whose ‘Scofield Reference Bible’ explains that God has special interest in only two peoples: Jews, said to be on an ‘earthly’ track, and Christians on a ‘heavenly’ track.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 128, 129): “Dispensationalism is the theory that God deals with mankind in distinct periods or ages. …[Ed.: These two teachings of] a secret [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture and a future Mr. Ghastly [Ed: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist] are now dispensational pillars.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 23): “…He [Ed.: i.e., British evangelist John Nelson Darby] invented ‘dispensations’ – that is, intervals of time ordering God’s grand timetable for world events. From this expression came ‘Dispensationalism’, a particular system or school of thinking about the end-times reflecting Darby’s premise. According to Darby’s view, God has divided all of human history into seven distinct dispensations, or ages, and during each time God has dealt with people according to a different set of rules. Dispensationalism thus lays out a rigid master plan for all of history.”
“Dispensationalism” (Per James Lloyd, author of “The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 7): “Although the [Ed.: pre-tribulational] rapturist system teaches the error [that] the ‘Church’ will be ‘raptured’ before the tribulation, leaving the Jews to face the Antichrist in the last ‘dispensation’, the systemic error that is Dispensationalism is far broader than just the pre-tribulational rapture. At its most basic level, Dispensationalism divides the ages into contrived time periods, dubbed ‘dispensations’, in which God separates how He deals with Jews and Gentiles.”
“Dispensationalist” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 118): “[A dispensationalist is] one who adheres to the belief in seven epochs (dispensations) that must transpire to usher in the Second Coming of Christ.”
“Futurism” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 116): “Futurism is what [Ed.: Spanish JESUIT] Francisco Ribera [1537-1591] taught. In contrast to Preterism, Futurism usually sees the majority of Revelation’s prophecies (from Chapter 4 onward) as yet on the horizon. Concerning the Antichrist…Futurism generally applies the prophecies of ‘the little horn’, ‘the man of sin’, and ‘the beast’ to a single, yet-future Mr. Serpent [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist]…
As with Preterism, Futurism’s net result is that it also significantly wipes away ‘the beast’ [Ed.: i.e., the Antichrist] stain from the papacy.”
“Great Tribulation” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “‘Great Tribulation’ is a term found in Matthew 24:21 and in Revelation 2:22 and 7:14. Some writers of prophecy books refer to the end-times’ tribulation period, which occurs just prior to the Second Coming of Christ, as ‘the Great Tribulation’.”
“Irving, Edward” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 127): “…Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving (1792-1834)…pastored the large Chalcedonian Chapel in London [England] with over 1000 members. Cofounder of ‘The Society for the Investigation of Prophecy’, Irving eventually accepted the one-man antichrist idea of [John Henry] Newman [Ed.: who later became a Roman Catholic cardinal], Burgh, Todd, Maitland, Bellarmine, and [Ed.: Spanish Jesuit Francisco] Ribera, yet he went a step further. Somewhere around 1830, Edward Irving began to teach the novel idea of a two-phase return of Christ, the first phase being ‘a secret rapture before the rise of antichrist’.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author Dave Macpherson, British evangelist John Nelson Darby took his Pre-Trib ideas from Edward Irving, who took some of his Pre-Trib ideas from Margaret Macdonald! Irving had earlier “supervised” the translation into English of Jesuit Emmanuel Lacunza’s book, “The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty”. This English translation of Lacunza’s book was published in 1827. Did Irving supervise the translation of Lacunza’s book into English knowing that Lacunza was a Jesuit?
“Jesuit Order” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Jesuit Order is a religious order of the Roman Catholic Church, officially approved by Pope Paul III in 1540. The primary goals of this order are (1) to roll back the Protestant Reformation and the freedoms that it brought to many of the inhabitants of this planet; (2) to enhance the power and prestige of the Papacy (and its ‘White Pope’); and (3) to rule despotically over the governments of the world through the Papacy. The head of the Jesuit Order is the Jesuit Superior General – the ‘Black Pope’ – the real power behind the Papal throne. The Jesuit Order is infamous for fomenting revolutions and wars, assassinating heads of State, and subverting nations. I believe that it is almost impossible to understand European history and Church history without a good understanding of the Protestant Reformation and the Jesuit-led Counter-Reformation.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: I included the “Jesuit Order” in this “Definitions” section because the Jesuit Order not only choreographed brutal Inquisition of Bible-believing Christians, but also has infiltrated Protestant denominations and independent, Bible-believing groups, societies, associations, organizations, and institutes. This infiltration program (part of the Jesuit-led “Counter-Reformation”) has included: (1) putting undercover Jesuits and Jesuit “temporal coadjutors” in key positions in such groups, associations, etc. (e.g., John Henry Newman of the Oxford movement); and, (2) introducing theological “viruses” through Jesuit-concocted and/or supported doctrines. I believe that one can make a pretty good “case” that the Jesuits had at least a “major assist” on the development of certain aspects of “Dispensationalism”, such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and an “exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist” (the latter viewpoint conveniently taking the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy)!
“Lacunza, Emmanuel” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Emmanuel Lacunza [1731-1801] was a Chilean JESUIT who wrote the four-volume book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’. Lacunza used the pseudonym of Rabbi Juan Josafat Ben Ezra for his book in order to deceive Protestants into thinking that it had been written by a Messianic [i.e., “Converted”] Jew, thus for a time concealing its JESUIT origins! Lacunza’s book provided at least some of the ingredients for the largely fictional prophetic concoction that is today called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture – a doctrine that is one of the pillars of ‘Dispensationalism’. Author and researcher Dave MacPherson admits that Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving may have been influenced on some details of futurist views by [Jesuit] Emmanuel Lacunza. MacPherson tells us that while ‘Lacunza saw a future tribulation and hinted that the [two] witnesses could represent at least part of the church, he didn’t see them raptured before the tribulation’. Manuscripts of Jesuit Lacunza’s book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’ were in circulation as early as the 1790s. The first complete Spanish edition of Emmanuel Lacunza’s book was published in London in 1816, and an English translation (supervised by Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving) was published in 1827.”
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Lisa Ruby, author of “GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Pages 1, 29, 61, 64, 94, 102, 133, 160, and 191):
“The ‘Left Behind’ series presents a false grace through ‘Christian’ characters that give in to ungodliness and worldly lusts that war against their souls. The storyline has the characters sinning to survive and rationalizing their service to sin because they are living during the tribulation.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series was written in such a way as to pervert major biblical truths, but because this is not easily seen, these perversions enter into the reader’s mind without him even realizing it.
…Even more disturbing is that the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors’ depiction of the happenings at the outset of the tribulation parallel what is actually planned [Ed.: emphasis in original] by the New World Order elitists. …There will be mass disappearances around the world that might be reported by the media as occurring simultaneously, but they will NOT occur because Jesus Christ has taken His people from the earth in a secret, pre-tribulation rapture that He NEVER promised. The horrific happenings [that] the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors portrayed as being caused by Jesus rapturing His people from the earth before the tribulation is WITHOUT any scriptural foundation. …The ‘Left Behind’ series sends the message that if you hear of mass disappearances [Ed.: during the “tribulation”] you should not suspect that any foul play occurred.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series presents many false teachings about the mark of the beast. [Ed. Note: You will need to read Lisa Ruby’s book for the details!]
…The ‘mark of the believer’ deception [i.e., cross-shaped smudge marks on their foreheads], repeated many times in the ‘Left Behind’ series, is one such teaching they can and will use against Christians during the tribulation if they can get away with it. …[The] visible ‘mark of the believer’ is not in the Bible.
…The [‘Left Behind’ series] authors have treated the sacred subject of sex in an unholy manner in the ‘Left Behind’ series.
…By the way, the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors want the reader to think [that] the president of the United States of America will go against the regime of the New World Order. This is totally inaccurate because the government of the United States of America is leading the world into the New World Order.
…The ‘Left Behind’ series gives the reader a false hope right out of the pit of hell, that you can serve sin today and then decide to serve Jesus when that Wicked is revealed.”
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 21): “In the last few years, the number-one promoter of the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture idea has been the New York Times best-selling ‘Left Behind’ series, coauthored by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. A high-speed, 12-book sequence of novels about the end times, ‘Left Behind’ teaches that the return of Jesus Christ takes place in two distinct phases. First [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] comes ‘invisibly’ to remove His Church before a seven-year tribulation during which the rest of humanity must face the antichrist. This is [called] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture. At the end of those seven years [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] will again return ‘visibly’ to deliver those who became Christians during the tribulation… This is the second coming. Thus [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers] it’s rapture first, then seven years with the antichrist, then the visible second coming of Jesus Christ.” (Emphasis is by author Steve Wohlberg.)
“‘Left Behind’ series” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page xi): “‘Left Behind’ theology is sheer fiction – indeed, a most dangerous fiction.”
“Lloyd, James” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “James Lloyd of ‘Christian Media’ is one of the champions in the fight to expose the Pre-Tribulation Rapture as a false, unbiblical doctrine. (Another such champion is author Dave MacPherson.) James Lloyd has authored the following books about Pre-Tribulation Rapturism: ‘The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism’, ‘Lying in Laodicea’, ‘The Reckoning’, and ‘Invisible Scripture’. He has also exposed the Pre-Trib Rapture on his radio broadcast and in printed articles.”
“Macdonald, Margaret” (Per Dave MacPherson, author of “The Rapture Plot”; 1995; Pages 2, 3, 6, 51 and 53):
“One person whose prophetic views greatly influenced [Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward] Irving and his friends was Miss Margaret Macdonald, a young lassie living in the small shipbuilding town of Port Glasgow in western Scotland.
…During springtime in 1830, an end-time vision [Ed. Note: of a two-stage Second Coming of Jesus Christ with a secret Pre-Trib Rapture] sprang into Margaret Macdonald’s mind. Privately, she sent handwritten copies of her Scripture-riddled revelation to some leading clergymen including Irving.
…As early as June 2, 1830, Edward Irving confessed in a private letter that the ‘substance of…Margaret Macdonald’s visions or revelations…carry to me a spiritual conviction and a spiritual reproof which I cannot express’.
…As early as the September 1830 issue of ‘The Morning Watch’, a writer using the pen name of ‘Fidus’ clearly expressed her [Ed.: i.e., Margaret Macdonald’s] novel idea – the earliest moment I’ve found anyone publicly teaching the pretrib rapturescape.
…What generally hasn’t been known about Margaret [Macdonald] is the extent to which she was open to the world of the ‘occult’.
…Although Margaret [Macdonald] wasn’t a rapture date-setter, she was an Antichrist-setter. On the same evening that found her arriving at her pretrib rapture construction, she predicted that 19th century socialist Robert Owen…would eventually become the Antichrist. But Owen failed to do his part and died in 1858!”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: Scottish lassie Margaret Macdonald was about 15 years old when, in the springtime of 1830, she got her “end-time vision” of a “two-stage” Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
“MacPherson, Dave” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Author Dave MacPherson is one of the champions in the fight to expose the Pre-Tribulation Rapture as a false, unbiblical doctrine of fairly recent origin (i.e., making its public debut in the early 1830s). (Another such champion is author James Lloyd.) Dave MacPherson has authored the following books about Pre-Tribulation Rapturism: ‘The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories’, ‘The Rapture Plot’, and ‘The Three R’s: Rapture, Revisionism, Robbery: Pretribulation Rapturism from 1830 to Hal Lindsey’. Dave MacPherson traveled to both England and Scotland to do much of his research on the ‘origins’ of Pre-Tribulation Rapturism.”
“Mid-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Mid-Tribulation Rapture is also called by some the ‘Pre-Wrath Rapture’ – and it teaches that Jesus Christ will ‘rapture’ His Church somewhere right in the middle of the alleged ‘seven-year tribulation period’ – and just PRIOR to God pouring out His wrath on the remaining inhabitants of planet Earth (during the last half of that alleged ‘seven-year tribulation period’). I suspect that this is the ‘rapture viewpoint’ with the fewest adherents.”
“Newman, John Henry” (Per David W. Daniels, author of “Did The Catholic Church Give Us The Bible?: The True History of God’s Words”; 2005; Pages 116 and 117): “A ‘Judas Iscariot’ was firmly planted in England. His name was John [Henry] Newman (1801-90). John was a deep ‘mole’ who served the Vatican by controlling the Tractarian society. John’s brainwashing tactics were so effective that they actually shifted the thinking of the English Protestants and drew them closer to [Ed.: Papal] Rome. [Ed.: Emphasis is in the original.] …Finally in 1845 he [Ed.: Newman] revealed the truth [Ed.: of his loyalty to Papal Rome]. With his disguise off Newman took almost 250 ministers and theologians, and near 625 professors, Parliament members, etc., to serve the ‘great ***** ’. Newman delivered England to [Ed.: Papal] Rome! Just one year after he dumped his Christian faith, John [Henry Newman] was made a [Roman Catholic] priest.”
“Newman, John Henry” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 127): “John Henry Newman (1801-1890) [was] a member of the Church of England and a leader of the famous Oxford movement (1833-1845). In 1850, Newman wrote his ‘Letter on Anglican Difficulties’ blatantly revealing that one of the goals of the [Ed.: Oxford] movement was to lead ‘the various English denominations and parties’ back to [Ed.: Papal] Rome. The ‘Oxford Tracts’ gave fresh weight to ‘anti-Protestant opinions’, gave ‘assistance [to] the laborers of the futurist school’, worked to ‘unprotestantize the Church of England’ and ‘set aside all application to the Roman Papacy of the fearful prophecies respecting Antichrist.’ After publishing his own pamphlet about a future Mr. Sinister [Ed.: i.e., the exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist], Newman himself became a [Roman] Catholic, and later a highly honored cardinal…”
Ed. Comment to the preceding two definitions: Why are so many Roman Catholics, Jesuits, and a Roman Catholic sympathizer (who later became a Roman Catholic priest and cardinal) involved with some of the “futurist” elements of Dispensationalism, such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and/or an “exclusively future, end-time, single Antichrist” (which effectively takes the SPOTLIGHT off of the Papacy as being the Antichrist)?
“Oxford movement” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “[Ed: The Oxford movement was] a High-Church, anti-liberal movement within the Church of England, begun at Oxford University in 1833: see TRACTARIANISM.” [Ed. NOTE: I have seen both “Oxford movement” and “Oxford Movement” in various books and dictionaries.]
“Oxford movement” (Per John W. Kennedy of India, author of “The Torch of the Testimony”; 1965; Pages 205-207):
“…Of these champions of the established Church a number were associated with Oxford [England], hence the name Oxford Movement which was given to their society. [Ed.: The movement was begun officially in 1833.] The most well known [Ed.: member of the Oxford movement] was John Henry Newman, later to become a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church. …These men sought to establish the unbroken succession of the Church of England from the ancient [Roman] Catholic Church, and advertised their views in a series of papers which they called ‘Tracts for the Times’. From these [tracts] the name ‘Tractarians’ has been derived. They made much of the glorious tradition of the past, and held to a doctrine of Apostolic Succession whereby the authority of the apostles was transmitted to bishops down through the centuries by the laying on of hands. …Only those, they said, who are in the apostolic succession can validly administer the sacraments which are a means of saving grace. [Ed.: Of course, that is clearly 100% Roman Catholic doctrine!] The doctrine of transubstantiation was held, and there was a return to many Romish practices – truths, they believed, which the Reformers had wrongly repudiated.
…The Anglo-Catholic Tractarians gained a large following among the clergy.
…In 1839 [John Henry] Newman issued Tract XC [i.e., #90]. It roused tremendous controversy, and resulted in further tracts being forbidden. In Tract XC Newman dealt with the question of interpreting the thirty-nine articles which outlined the definitely Protestant faith of the Church of England. These, he said, could be conscientiously signed, but interpreted from the standpoint of the [Roman] Catholic Church, not interpreted only as their authors originally intended. The furious outcry which resulted charged the Tractarians with evasion and Jesuitry… A few years later, in 1845, [John Henry] Newman was formally received into the Roman Catholic Church. Some hundreds of clergymen and laymen followed him.
The departure of Newman and his followers did not mean the break up of the Anglo-Catholic party. It was seriously weakened, but, under the able leadership of Edward Pusey [Ed. Note: from which we get the term “Puseyism”] was, within a few years, stronger than it had ever been, and was continuing to grow. Up to the present day it has exercised a powerful influence in a large section of the Anglican Church, and has wrought almost unbelievable changes to restore ideas of the Middle Ages which great men like [Nicholas] Ridley and [Hugh] Latimer opposed to the point of giving their lives at the stake.”
Ed. Comments to the preceding two definitions:
(1) “The Oxford movement” was clearly controlled in the 1830s and in the 1840s by undercover Roman Catholics and Roman Catholic sympathizers within the Church of England. One of the leaders of “the Oxford movement” was John Henry Newman (1801-1890), who later left the movement to become a Roman Catholic priest – and still later, a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church! “The Oxford movement” was doing all it could in the 1830s and 1840s to push the Church of England back into the arms of the Papacy!
(2) Something for all of us to consider: Were there any links between this pro-Roman Catholic “Oxford movement” and either Edward Irving or John Nelson Darby, both of whom taught the Pre-Trib Rapture? Although the Oxford movement officially began in 1833, the Anglo-Catholic party had been working very hard within the Church of England PRIOR to that time to bring the Church of England back more in line with Roman Catholicism! Remember also that the Jesuits had been very active in England from the time of the late 1500s!
(3) Though there may not be any connection, I find it interesting that my copy of the “Scofield Study Bible” (whose notes strongly promote “Dispensationalism” and the “Pre-Trib Rapture”) was published by the “OXFORD University Press”. Geoffrey Thomas of “The Banner of Truth” tells us that the Oxford University Press is “no friend to gospel Christianity”, and that it paid Cyrus I. Scofield “enormous royalties” [for his work on the “Scofield Study Bible”].
(4) Please also see “Tractarianism” in this section.
“Post-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “The Post-Tribulation Rapture was the ‘rapture viewpoint’ held by the vast majority of Christian writers throughout Church history until at least the 1830s. This viewpoint places the true Church here on planet Earth DURING the end-times’ tribulation period when the Antichrist makes the final push to exterminate Bible-believing Christianity – and possibly even much (or, all) of nominal Christianity.”
“Pre-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 22):
“The [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture has its origins in the nineteenth century – beginning, according to one critic [Ed.: i.e., author Dave MacPherson], with a young girl’s vision. In 1830, in Port Glasgow, Scotland, fifteen-year-old Margaret MacDonald attended a healing service. There, she was said to have seen a vision of a two-stage return of Jesus Christ. The story of her vision was adopted and amplified by John Nelson Darby, a British evangelical preacher and founder of the Plymouth Brethren.
At the time, the belief that Jesus [Christ] will come back again was not new. Christians have always taught that Jesus [Christ] will return to earth and that believers should live in the urgent and hopeful anticipation of His second coming. This teaching is central to ancient Christian creeds and is taught by all churches. But Darby’s new teaching was the claim that Christ would return twice. The first return would be in secret, to ‘Rapture’ His church out of the world and up to heaven. Christ would return a second time after seven years of global tribulation to establish a Jerusalem-based kingdom on earth (which they call the ‘Glorious Appearing’, a phrase from Titus 2:13). For Darby and his sympathizers, the search was on for Bible verses to support this two-stage version of Christ’s return.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: According to author and researcher Dave Macpherson, British evangelist John Nelson Darby took a lot of his Pre-Trib views from Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, who had taken a “large slice” of his Pre-Trib views (e.g., the two-stage [second] coming of Christ) from a Scottish lassie named Margaret Macdonald.
“Pre-Tribulation Rapture” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “There are enough JESUIT fingerprints on certain aspects of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine (e.g., a future seven-year tribulation period and an exclusively future, single antichrist) that possibly we should call it the ‘JESUIT-inspired-and-assisted-Pre-Tribulation Rapture’ – a doctrine that has deceived, blinded, and neutralized many Protestants and independent, Bible-believing Christians. (It has deceived and blinded many of them to the truth that the Papacy is the Antichrist; and it has neutralized many of them by keeping them from fighting evil because they think that they won’t be here during the ‘tribulation’.) Public ‘teaching’ of this doctrine of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture did not really ‘take off’ UNTIL the early 1830s. Later, it – and its ‘big daddy’, ‘Dispensationalism’ – were popularized in the USA by the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’ – and then still later by modern writers of books dealing with Bible prophecy. Steve Wohlberg gives us a good description of this doctrine on page 21 of his book, ‘End Time DELUSIONS’, (as he was describing the ‘Left Behind’ series): ‘[Ed.: The Pre-Trib Rapture teaches] that the return of Jesus Christ takes place in two distinct phases. First [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] comes ‘invisibly’ to remove His Church before a seven-year tribulation during which the rest of humanity must face the antichrist. This is [called] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] rapture. At the end of those seven years [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers], Jesus [Christ] will again return ‘visibly’ to deliver those who became Christians during the tribulation… This is the second coming. Thus [Ed.: according to “Left Behind” and Pre-Trib’ers] it’s rapture first, then seven years with the antichrist, then the visible second coming of Jesus Christ’.” (Emphasis on the words “invisibly” and “visibly” is by Steve Wohlberg.)
“Pre-Wrath Rapture” (See Mid-Tribulation Rapture in this section.)
“Rapture” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006; meaning #3): “A carrying away or being carried away in body or spirit: now rare except in theological usage.” (Please see “Rapture, The” in this section.)
“Rapture” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 119): “A belief that Born Again Christians will be lifted up into heaven. Traditionally, Christians believed that, like the hero of ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’, they must endure suffering and hardships to reach heaven’s pearly gates. However, dispensationalists are taught that they need not suffer for one moment, that they will experience an instant [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture – thus escaping all various holocausts that precede the destruction of Planet Earth.”
“Rapture, The” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “In some Christian theologies, the bodily ascent into heaven just before Armageddon of those who are saved.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding definition: The above “term” in Webster’s 2006 edition should have been labeled “The PRE-TRIBULATION Rapture”.
“Resurrection, The” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “Theological: 1. The rising of Jesus [Christ] from the dead after his death and burial. 2. The rising of all the dead at the Last Judgment.”
“Ribera, Francisco” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 114, 116):
“At the Council of Trent [Ed.: 1545-1563], papal leaders and JESUITS brainstormed about how to counteract Protestantism and bring defectors back to the mother church. Behind closed doors, they decided this was to be done, not only through the Inquisition and torture, but also through THEOLOGY. What kind of theology? Here’s the answer: By reinterpreting the prophecies about ‘the man of sin’, ‘the little horn’, and ‘the beast’!
Two very intelligent Spanish JESUITS rose to the challenge: Luis de Alcasar (1554-1613) of Seville and FRANCISCO RIBERA (1537-1591) of Salamanca. Their strategy was, in a nutshell, one of reapplication and diversion, yet they went in opposite directions. After reading the Bible by candlelight like Martin Luther did, [JESUIT Luis de] Alcasar decided to apply the Bible’s antichrist prophecies to the ancient past while [JESUIT Francisco] Ribera applied them to the distant future. ‘Smart move!’ was the response from [Papal] Rome. By reapplying these prophecies to the past and to the future instead of to the present, these two tricky JESUIT scholars sought to divert the prophetic finger light years away from the VATICAN. Their views quickly became official positions within the Roman [Catholic] Church – even though these two views contradicted each other!
Futurism is what [Spanish JESUIT] FRANCISCO RIBERA taught. In contrast to Preterism, Futurism usually sees the majority of Revelation’s prophecies (from Chapter 4 onward) as yet on the horizon. Concerning the Antichrist…Futurism generally applies the prophecies of ‘the little horn’, ‘the man of sin’, and ‘the beast’ to a single, yet-future Mr. Serpent…
As with Preterism, Futurism’s net result is that it also significantly wipes away ‘the beast’ [Ed.: i.e., the Antichrist] stain from the PAPACY.”
“Scofield, C. I.” (Per Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 23): “…Cyrus I. Scofield was a dubious character who embezzled money, served six months in jail for forgery even after his conversion to Christianity, and abandoned his wife and daughters, according to critics. Scofield hit the jackpot with his annotated ‘Scofield Reference Bible’, a version of the King James Bible in which he added dispensationalist headings and notes in the margin commenting on each prophetic passage in light of [John Nelson] Darby’s [dispensationalist] system. With sales in the millions, it became the version of the Bible through which Americans read their scriptures throughout much of the twentieth century. Scofield’s notes and headings were woven in with the biblical text itself, elevating Dispensationalism to a level of biblical authority that no previous writing had.”
“Scofield, C. I.” (Per Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT): “Cyrus Ingerson (C.I.) Scofield was born in 1843, and he died in 1921. Scofield is best known in fundamentalist Christian circles for the ‘Scofield Study Bible’ (a.k.a. the ‘Scofield Reference Bible’), which was published by the Oxford University Press. Geoffrey Thomas of ‘The Banner of Truth’ tells us that the Oxford University Press is ‘no friend to gospel Christianity’, and that it paid Scofield ‘enormous royalties’. Some of the notes found in the Scofield Study Bible strongly promote ‘Dispensationalism’. Many ‘dispensationalists’ of the past – and many today – promote a dispensationalist doctrine called the ‘Pretribulation Rapture’. Author Joseph M. Canfield, in his book ‘The Incredible Scofield and His Book’ (1988), covers Scofield’s sordid history of abandoning his Roman Catholic wife (and then failing to support her and their children – which ultimately led to divorce), forgery, and his sudden resignation under a cloud as United States District Attorney for Kansas. Author Loraine Boettner, commenting on Canfield’s book, says: ‘This is one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensationalist system…because it shows how the book that had the most to do with promotion of that system, ‘The Scofield Reference Bible’, originated’.”
Ed. Comment to the preceding two definitions: Please read “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” (1988) by Joseph M. Canfield for “the rest of the story” on Cyrus I. Scofield. (Note: The publisher of this book is Ross House Books, Vallecito, California.)
“Scofield Reference Bible, The” (or, “Scofield Study Bible, The”) (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 129): “In 1909, [Cyrus Ingerson] Scofield published the first edition of his famous ‘Scofield Reference Bible’. In the early 1900s, this Bible became so popular in American Protestant Bible schools that literally millions of copies were printed. What made Scofield’s Bible so energizing was not so much the Scripture itself, but his footnotes. Yet those footnotes contained the [Ed.: Jesuit] ‘virus’. Anti-Reformation interpretations were inserted that pointed the finger away from papal Rome [Ed.: as the Antichrist of Scripture] and toward a future antichrist.”
“Seven-Year Period of Tribulation” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 40, 47): “The truth is, from Genesis to Revelation, there is no exact passage that specifically mentions a seven-year period of tribulation at all. …The entire ‘seven-year period of tribulation’ theory is an END TIME DELUSION, a massive mega-myth. It may even go down in history as the ‘greatest evangelical misinterpretation of all time’. …There is no text in the Bible which teaches a ‘seven-year tribulation’.” [Ed.: Some writers describe the end-times’ tribulation period as the “Great Tribulation”.] (See “Daniels 70th Week” in this section.)
“Temple of God, The” (Per Steve Wohlberg, author of “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Pages 73 and 74): “The original Greek word [Ed.: that the Apostle] Paul used in II Thessalonians 2:4 for ‘temple’ is ‘naos’. …Did Paul use the same [Greek] word [Ed.: i.e., “naos”] anywhere else in his writings? Yes. In his letter to the early Corinthians, Paul wrote to ‘the church of God which is at Corinth’ (I Corinthians 1:2). Then he inquired, ‘Do you not know that you are the temple [naos] of God and that the spirit of God dwells in you?’ (I Corinthians 3:16) Here [the Apostle] Paul clearly applied the word ‘naos’ to the Christian Church – not a physical temple in Jerusalem. …In fact, in all of his writings, every time Paul used the word ‘naos’, he always applied [Ed.: emphasis is in original] it to the Christian Church and never to a rebuilt Israeli [Ed.: i.e., Jewish] temple!”
“Tractarianism” (Per “Webster’s New World College Dictionary, Fourth Edition”; 2006): “The principles of the Oxford movement, favoring a return to early [Ed.: Roman] Catholic doctrines in the Church of England: from the ninety ‘Tracts for the Times’, pamphlets issued at Oxford from 1833 to 1841.” (Please also see “Oxford movement” in this section.)
“Tribulation” (Per Grace Halsell, author of “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth”; 1999; Page 119): “Generally understood [Ed.: especially by dispensationalists and those in the “Pre-Trib camp”] to be a seven-year period of great upheaval never before experienced on earth. Dispensationalists insist that God will punish the Jews in particular during this period because of their disbelief in Christ.” [Ed.: Some writers describe the end-times’ tribulation period as the “Great Tribulation”.]
OPENING QUOTATIONS:
“Most people, sometime in their lives, stumble across the TRUTH. Most jump up, brush themselves off, and hurry on about their business AS IF NOTHING HAD HAPPENED.” – Winston Churchill (1874-1965; British statesman and writer)
“Any story – or a particular side of a story – can sound pretty good and quite believable – and can even sound perfectly true, UNTIL someone else comes along and gives you the OTHER side (i.e., the REST) of the story.” – Darryl Eberhart (Editor of ETI & TTT newsletters; December 13, 2007)
“We are told to love one another as Christ has loved us. Pop psychology trivializes that command by equating it with a ‘positive’ attitude. Forgotten is the first duty of love: to speak the truth (Ephesians 4:15). Real love does not flatter or soothe when correction is needed but [rather] points out the error which is blinding and harming the loved one. Christ said, ‘As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous, therefore, and repent’ (Revelation 3:19). Instead, the idea is now current that love excludes rebuke, ignores the truth, and seeks unity at any price. Only disaster can result.” – Dave Hunt (“A Woman Rides the Beast”; 1994; Page 403)
“…Piety requires us to honor truth above our friends.” – Aristotle (384-322 B.C.; Greek philosopher)
I. INTRODUCTION
Is it really important what position Christians hold on the timing of the “Rapture”? Some folks think that the timing of the “Rapture” is doctrinally unimportant. Others believe that the Rapture “timing issue” is very important!
For those unfamiliar with the “Rapture debate”, Pre-Trib’ers believe that Jesus Christ will “rapture” His church OFF OF planet Earth BEFORE the start of the “end-times’ tribulation” [which they believe is 7 years long]. Post-Trib’ers believe that “the Church” is here on planet Earth DURING the “end-times’ tribulation”, and will be facing the Antichrist system and its murderous hordes. Post-Trib’ers also believe that Jesus Christ will return at the END of the “end-times’ tribulation” (referred to by some as “the Great Tribulation”). Many Post-Trib’ers do not subscribe to a 7-year timeframe for the “end-times’ tribulation”.
I USED to believe in the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint. That was, of course, BEFORE I began reading through the entire Holy Bible (KJV) from cover to cover each year! The Pre-Trib viewpoint is admittedly the prophetic viewpoint that sells the most prophecy books! In fact, the Pre-Trib Rapture has been a fantastically big “cash cow” for a number of well-known “prophecy writers”.
I also believe that “the Antichrist” (as a geopolitical-religious entity) was revealed centuries ago. And “NO!” – I do not believe in the “Preterist View”, nor do I believe that “the Antichrist” was Roman Emperor Nero or any other particular individual in history. I believe that “the [historical] Antichrist” is the Papacy, and that this assertion can be strongly backed up with both Scriptural and historical evidence! (Please read my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, which is posted on the three websites listed at the beginning of this newsletter.) I also believe that “the Church” will go through the entire end-times’ tribulation period (i.e., the “Post-Trib” prophetic viewpoint). And that is the prophetic viewpoint that most Bible scholars held for centuries! That is, of course, until the “Pre-Trib” Rapture, with Dispensationalism’s future 7-year end-times’ tribulation period and exclusively future, single, end-times’ Antichrist, began to be publicly taught in Great Britain in the 1830s! (Please review the term “Dispensationalism” in the “Definitions” section if you are unsure of its meaning.)
Some people will criticize me for writing on this “tough issue” – saying that I am being “divisive” at a critical time in the fight against the “New World Order”. Yet we are told in Jude 3 to “earnestly contend for the faith”. I do not believe we are given an “option” of which particular aspects of “the faith” we will “choose” to defend! Earnestly contending for the faith would certainly include the admonition given to Christians in Ephesians 5:11 to reprove “the unfruitful works of darkness” – which would certainly include FALSE doctrines masquerading as “truth” inside the “Church”! And if “Dispensationalism” and its popular “Pre-Trib Rapture” are indeed FALSE – and not supported by Scripture, but rather REFUTED by it, then they must be exposed! And if the “Pre-Trib Rapture” is causing some Christians to sit back, and to be lazy, apathetic, and complacent about fighting evil because “they [allegedly] won’t be here” during the “end-times’ tribulation”, then it absolutely needs to be exposed!
None of us was able to prearrange into which denomination or Christian fellowship we were born. We ALL should have the courage to examine any denominational or fundamentalist doctrine – no matter how old it may be or how precious and sweet-sounding it is to us – if someone tells us that Scripture does NOT support it – or that Scripture actually REFUTES it! It takes “guts” to admit that we have been “hoodwinked” by “false apostles” and/or Biblically-ignorant preachers – but that is something that we ALL must do if we find that the Holy Bible actually REFUTES any long-held, cherished doctrine of ours!
NOTE: This newsletter will NOT discuss “Preterism”. It also will not discuss the subject of “Premillennialism” versus “Postmillennialism”. Rather, it will deal primarily with the TIMING of the “Rapture”.
II. THE BIBLICAL RECORD
Obviously, the Holy Bible is the most critical record – for God’s Word must always be the standard by which we measure all things! John Walvoord, author of several books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture, has admitted that there is NO SINGLE Bible verse that by itself teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture!
It was my daily studies of the Holy Bible (reading through the entire Bible each year) that convinced me that the Holy Bible clearly does NOT teach the Pre-Trib Rapture. Here are some of the Bible passages that really spoke to my heart:
1) I Thessalonians 4:15-17: [Ed.: The Apostle Paul wrote]: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall NOT prevent [Ed.: i.e., precede] them which are asleep. (Verse 16): For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST: (Verse 17): THEN we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Do the above verses really need explanation? Aren’t they perfectly clear? The Holy Bible is saying that those Christians still alive at Jesus Christ’s [Second] Coming do NOT PRECEDE the “dead in Christ”, who are raised [i.e., resurrected] FIRST! And it is only THEN [i.e., after the “dead in Christ” are resurrected] that those Christians “still living” are caught up “to meet the Lord in the air”! Since the Holy Bible teaches only TWO resurrections [i.e., one for the “just” and one for the “unjust”]; and since the Bible clearly teaches that the resurrection of the just is the FIRST RESURRECTION (see Revelation 20:4-6); and since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said four times that He would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54) – well then, how can anyone say that there is some “special group” of Christians that are getting “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the first resurrection? And just HOW MANY “LAST DAYS” are there? Is there a “LAST DAY” BEFORE the alleged “7-year tribulation” begins? Is there a “LAST DAY” 3½ years into the alleged “7-year tribulation”, just prior to God’s Wrath falling on a sinful world?
Again, it is worth repeating: The Lord Jesus Christ said four times that He would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54)!
It might be interesting to note here, that as a great person in Biblical times (in the Middle East) approached a city, a large entourage of folks from that city would then come out to meet that great person at some distance from the city. They would all THEN turn RIGHT AROUND and escort that great person into their city. Doesn’t that sound just like what we read in I Thessalonians 4:16, 17?
I Thessalonians 4:15-17 alone should be enough to “sink” the “Pre-Trib Rapture ship”. After all, those Christians remaining alive at the 2nd Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ CANNOT precede those Christians “which are asleep” (and who will be raised in the resurrection at the “last day”).
2) Matthew 24:26-33: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “Wherefore if they shall say unto you, ‘Behold, He is in the desert’; go not forth: ‘Behold, [He is] in the secret chambers’; believe [it] not. (Verse 27): For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Verse 28): For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (Verse 29): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Verse 30): And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Verse 31): And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Verse 32): Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh [Ed.: i.e., near]: (Verse 33): So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors.”
The Lord Jesus Christ is talking about His “Second Coming”. He mentions such things as “after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken.” To whom would this warning be given except to believers on planet Earth who would be susceptible to folks trying to trick them into believing that Christ had come before He had actually returned? And how can believers on Earth see all these signs if they’ve already been “raptured” OUT BEFORE the start of the alleged “7-year tribulation”? (Pre-Trib’ers might say that believers who see these signs must be the “Christians who get saved during the 7-year tribulation” – but nowhere in Scripture does it say that! Here is yet another ASSUMPTION on the part of the Pre-Trib’ers.)
And while we are on the subject of these many “Christians who get saved during the 7-year tribulation” (according to Pre-Trib’ers), HOW is it that so many people “get saved” during this “7-year tribulation” when the Holy Spirit and the “Church” have been “removed” from Earth (according to Pre-Trib’ers)?
3) Mark 13:24-27: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “But in those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (Verse 25): And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (Verse 26): And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (Verse 27): And THEN shall He send His angels, and shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of heaven.”
If those Christians who were “raptured” before the start of the alleged “7-year end-times’ tribulation” (as Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME) were already gathered to the Lord, did they get LOST, so that the Lord has to send His angels out to gather them a second time? If there is only ONE “gathering together”, and we Christians who are alive at Christ’s return cannot PRECEDE those who are raised in the “resurrection of the just” (at the END of the “end-times’ tribulation”), it sure looks like the above Scripture passage is placing the “gathering together” of Christians AFTER the “end-times’ tribulation”!
4) Matthew 13:24-30; and 37-42: “Another parable put He [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: (Verse 25): But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. (Verse 26): But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. (Verse 27): So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, ‘Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?’ (Verse 28): He said unto them, ‘An enemy hath done this.’ The servants said unto him, ‘Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?’ (Verse 29): But he said, ‘Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (Verse: 30) Let both grow together UNTIL THE HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.’” [Ed.: A few verses later His disciples ask Him to explain the above parable.] “…(Verse 37): He [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Verse 38): The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; (Verse 39): The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. (Verse 40): As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; SO shall it be in the end of this world. (Verse 41): The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Verse 42): And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.’”
This parable of the Lord Jesus Christ clearly shows that the “tares” are the “bad guys” – and that the “bad guys” are the ones who are gathered up FIRST at the “harvest” that occurs at the end of the world! Here we have the Lord Jesus Christ teaching just the opposite of what Pre-Trib’ers say! (Pre-Trib’ers say that the “good guys” are gathered up FIRST in the alleged Pre-Trib Rapture.)
5) John 17:15, 20: [Ed. Note: The following are “red letter” words quoted directly from the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ in a prayer to His Heavenly Father.]: (Verse 15): “I pray NOT that Thou shouldest take them [Ed.: i.e., His disciples] OUT OF the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
…(Verse 20): Neither pray I for these [Ed.: i.e., His original disciples] ALONE, but for them ALSO which shall believe on Me through their word;”
Jesus Christ in verse 20 says that He is praying this prayer for all future believers as well as for His original disciples! The Son of God is praying to His Father asking Him NOT to evacuate His followers OUT OF the world.
The two words “keep from” (in verse 15 above) appear in this form only twice in the entire New Testament: here in John 17:15, and in Revelation 3:10. And isn’t it interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers TRY to use Revelation 3:10 to “prove” the Pre-Trib Rapture? Revelation 3:10 reads: “Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” It is also quite interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers NEVER mention the “one other” use of the Greek for “keep from” that appears in John 17:15, where Jesus Christ prays NOT to have believers removed from planet Earth! Wow! It certainly appears that John 17:15 has the Son of God praying AGAINST the Pre-Trib Rapture!
And it is certainly worth mentioning here that this is where much of the Pre-Trib argument falls apart, because Pre-Trib’ers WRONGLY ASSUME that God MUST take those Christians living in the “end times” OUT OF the world in order to keep them safe during the “Tribulation”. (The Pre-Trib position, sadly, is built solely upon assumptions, and not upon any solid Scriptural ground!) Anyway, such an ASSUMPTION “assumes” that God is NOT able to keep any true Christians safe here on planet Earth DURING [i.e., in the MIDST of] the “tribulation” period. (Yes, some Christians will be beheaded!) Yet the Bible is full of examples where God kept His children safe IN THE MIDST OF tribulation. In fact, that seems indeed to be a great theme of the Holy Bible, i.e., “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. Here are just a few examples:
(a.) When God’s judgments fell on the Egyptians during the time of the Hebrews’ captivity in Egypt, God did NOT “air evacuate” the Hebrews OUT OF Egypt (or OFF OF planet Earth). No! While God’s judgments were falling on the Egyptians in those areas where they resided, God preserved His children in Goshen IN THE MIDST OF those horrible judgments! (Isn’t it interesting that God’s “judgments and plagues” that fell on the Egyptians in the book of Exodus look very similar to God’s “judgments and plagues” that we see falling on the Earth’s inhabitants in the book of Revelation?) And could not this great and Almighty God, who preserved the Hebrew children IN THE MIDST OF those horrible plagues that befell the Egyptians, ALSO preserve His obedient children ON planet Earth DURING the “end-times’ tribulation”?
(b.) When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the book of Daniel, Chapter 3, ran afoul of King Nebuchadnezzar [i.e., the three young men disobeyed the king to his face!], did God “air evacuate” them OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? When the king had these three young Jewish men tossed into the fiery furnace, did God “air evacuate” them OUT OF the furnace in order to save them? NO! God preserved them IN THE MIDST OF the fiery furnace!
(c.) When Daniel was tossed in the lions’ den for disobeying the king’s command (see Chapter 6 in the book of Daniel), did God “air evacuate” Daniel OFF OF planet Earth in order to save him? NO! God preserved Daniel IN THE MIDST OF the lions’ den! (Can’t we see a beautiful picture and pattern developing here of an all-powerful God who delights in delivering His obedient children who STAND AGAINST tyranny and injustice – even when they are IN THE MIDST OF horrible situations of danger, persecution, and tribulation?)
(d.) What about Rahab in the book of Joshua, Chapter 6, who had lied to her government’s officials to protect the Hebrew spies? When the Hebrew soldiers destroyed the city of Jericho where Rahab resided, did God “air evacuate” Rahab and her family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! God preserved Rahab and her family IN THE MIDST OF the destruction of the city!
(e.) What lesson can we learn from Noah? When God brought His judgment through a great flood upon the inhabitants of the Earth, did He “air evacuate” Noah and his family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! Noah and his family did NOT go airborne, but rather they were seaborne! God preserved Noah and his family IN THE MIDST OF horrible judgment [i.e., the great flood that He brought upon the whole Earth] without taking them off of the planet!
The above examples remind me of a beautiful Bible verse: “When thou passest THROUGH the waters, I [Ed.: i.e., the Lord God Almighty] [will be] with thee; and THROUGH the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest THROUGH the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.” (Isaiah 43:2)
Again, preservation IN THE MIDST OF danger, persecution, and tribulation is a great theme that we can clearly see in the Bible – and NOT “aerial evacuation” OFF OF planet Earth to avoid danger, persecution, and tribulation. We must keep in mind that there are times when Almighty God chooses not to deliver His servants, such as Stephen, who was stoned to death. Additionally, after Judas Iscariot perished, all of the apostles except John were murdered!
6) Luke 17:34-37: “I [Ed.: i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] tell you, in that night there shall be two [men] in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. (Verse 35): Two [women] shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 36): Two [men] shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 37): And they answered and said unto Him, ‘Where, Lord?’ And He said unto them, ‘Wheresoever the body [is], thither will the eagles be gathered together.’” (Compare Matthew 24:28.)
Some Pre-Trib writers use Luke 17:34-36 (or, Matthew 24:40, 41) as an alleged “proof text” for the Pre-Trib Rapture! But they IGNORE Luke 17:37, where the Lord Jesus Christ tells His disciples that these people, who are “taken away”, have eagles gathering around their bodies! That sounds like those who were taken away were NOT “raptured” (an ASSUMPTION made by Pre-Trib’ers), but rather that these individuals were taken away in judgment and killed. (Why else would eagles be gathering around their bodies?) Please remember that in Matthew 13:30 and 39-42 that Jesus Christ said that the “tares” (i.e., the “bad guys”) are gathered FIRST (Matthew 13:30) and then burned!
7) Luke 17:26-30: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. (Verse 27): They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Verse 28): Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; (Verse 29): But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. (Verse 30): Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
The Lord Jesus Christ is comparing His “Second Coming” to the time of the flood in Noah’s day, and also to the time of Lot (when fire rained down on Sodom). In Noah’s day the flood came and “took away” the “bad guys”. And, as was pointed out earlier, Noah and his family were not “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the flood. Also, on the very same day that Lot went out of Sodom, fire rained down upon that city. And again, it was the “bad guys” who were “removed” in that judgment of Almighty GOD! Interestingly, Lot also was NOT “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE Sodom was destroyed! Thus neither Noah nor Lot can serve as “examples” of Pre-Tribulation-Rapture-type deliverance. Both were preserved IN THE MIDST of God’s judgment on evildoers, who were “removed” by God’s judgment!
8) Mark 13:20: [Ed.: The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.”
I believe that most Bible scholars would agree that here we find the Lord Jesus Christ talking about the “Tribulation”. If the “elect” (i.e., believers) have been “raptured” out BEFORE the “Tribulation”, then why does God have to shorten “those days” for their sakes? (The Pre-Trib’ers might say that the “elect” here must be those “who are saved during the 7-year tribulation”. This is another ASSUMPTION made by Pre-Trib’ers with no Scriptural backing!)
9) Revelation 13:4-7: “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, ‘Who [is] like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?’ (Verse 5): And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. (Verse 6): And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Verse 7): And it was given unto him to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
Most Bible scholars agree that the “him” and “he” found in verses 5, 6, and 7 refer to the Antichrist. In verse 7 we see that he [the Antichrist, according to most Bible scholars] was given [power] “to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them”. Many Bible scholars believe that these events are taking place during the end-times’ “Tribulation”. Well, if believers have been raptured out before the end-times’ “Tribulation”, then upon which “saints” is the Antichrist making war? Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that these “saints” must be those persons who are saved during the “7-year tribulation”, after the Pre-Trib believers had been “air evacuated” in their Pre-Trib Rapture. But the Bible does NOT say this! Again, it is another dangerous ASSUMPTION, because if this assumption, and the many other assumptions the Pre-Trib’ers make (some of which have been noted in this newsletter) are WRONG, then many Christians may be quite shocked to find that they are the ones upon whom the Antichrist is making war, and that they are here on planet Earth DURING the end-times’ “Tribulation”! (The historical Antichrist – the Papacy – has long waged war on God’s saints!)
And while we are here in the book of Revelation, let us address an argument that Pre-Trib’ers put forth, i.e., that from Revelation 3:22 through Revelation 22:16 the word “church” does not appear, thus the “church” must have been “raptured” out, and is not on planet Earth during the “end-times’ 7-year tribulation” (per Pre-Trib’ers). Well, using such “logic”, the word “synagogue” is not mentioned either in those same verses, so there must not be any Jews being saved either during the “Tribulation” (i.e., no 144,000 Jewish “Billy Grahams” as some Pre-Trib’ers speculate). If folks are “getting saved” during the “Tribulation”, then why wouldn’t they have the same title of “the church” as have believers of any other period since Christ’s time here on Earth?
10) Revelation 20:4-6: “And I [Ed.: i.e., the Apostle John] saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Verse 5): But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS [IS] THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (Verse 6): Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”
Nearly all Bible scholars agree that there has never been a time when large numbers of Christians were BEHEADED, and that this occurs during the “end-times’ Tribulation”. Again, if the “church” has been “air evacuated” off of planet Earth, then who are these folks getting beheaded for “the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God”? Well, again, Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that “those being beheaded” must be people who are “saved during the end-times’ tribulation”. But again, the Bible does NOT state such a thing anywhere, and such ASSUMPTIONS may prove quite dangerous to those who embrace them!
11) Revelation 7:9, 13 and 14: (Verse 9): “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; …(Verse 13): And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, ‘What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they?’ (Verse 14): And I said unto him, ‘Sir, thou knowest.’ And he said to me, ‘These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb’.”
Here we see large numbers of people of ALL nations who have come out of “great tribulation”. Again we ask: “HOW were large numbers of people getting saved during ‘great tribulation’ if the ‘church’ and the Holy Spirit of God had been previously removed [as Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME and ALLEGE]?”
12) II Thessalonians 2:1-4: [Ed.: The Apostle Paul wrote]: “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto Him, (Verse 2): That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand [Ed.: i.e., near in time; not distant]. (Verse 3): Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day [Ed.: i.e., the day of Christ] shall not come], EXCEPT there come a falling away [Ed.: Greek: apostasia] FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Verse 4): Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
NOTE: Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language defines the term “at hand” thusly: “near; either present or within reach, or not far distant”. It then lists as an example “the day of Christ is at hand” from the above Bible passage, stating that “at hand” in this context means “near in time; not distant”.
IMPORTANT NOTE: I am listing the above Bible passage only because it refutes the Pre-Trib’ers’ own “air evacuation” Rapture timing (i.e., as occurring prior to THEIR exclusively future, single, “Mr. Nasty Antichrist” appearing in the end times, with a pig under his arm, who enters into a “rebuilt Jewish Temple” to sacrifice that pig). I believe that the Antichrist has clearly been identified in Holy Scripture as the Papacy. This does NOT mean that I do not believe that there will be an “end time” leader of the Antichrist system, for there surely must be. However, I believe that this “end-time” leader will either be the top man in the Jesuit-controlled Vatican, or a titular sovereign that this end-time leader will put forward as his “front man”. (Please see my newsletter, “The Real Antichrist”, on website www.toughissues.org.)
Paul wrote II Thessalonians 2:1-4 to specifically warn folks NOT to allow themselves to become deceived about Christ’s second coming being “right around the corner” (i.e., imminent), or as Webster’s 1828 Dictionary puts it: “near in time; not distant”. Again, I believe that the key Bible passage dealing with the timing of the “rapture” is I Thessalonians 4:15-17. Indeed, the “key” to understanding the timing of the “rapture” is an understanding of the “resurrection”. I highly recommend that the reader of this newsletter check all occurrences of the word “resurrection” in a good concordance, and then carefully read all the Bible verses and passages that contain this important word.
Most folks agree this “man of sin – the son of perdition” is the Antichrist. This “day [of Christ]” (that the Apostle Paul is talking about in verse 3) is shown in verse 1 to be the “coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”, and “our gathering together to Him”. The plain teaching of verse 3 is that NONE of those events take place until there first occurs both a “falling away” [i.e., an APOSTASY] and the revealing of “that man of sin – the son of perdition”! And so, IF one does subscribe to the Pre-Trib theory that “the Antichrist” is an exclusively future, “Mr. Nasty-to-the-extreme” individual who is to come on the scene in the very “end times”, then the above passage would clearly refute the idea that “the Church” is “air evacuated” prior to this “Mr. Nasty” person being revealed.
At least one Pre-Trib Rapture writer has tried to “explain away” the words “first, and” in verse 3 above, saying that they don’t really mean what they say. At least one Pre-Trib writer has tried to say that the “falling away” [Greek: apostasia] is really the “Pre-Trib Rapture” (such twisting of both Scripture and the meanings of Greek and English words, sadly, occurs far too often among Pre-Trib authors). The Greek word “apostasia” is used in such contexts as a “falling away” from, for example, the “truth” – never in the context of “falling away from the earth up to heaven”. (NOTE: Webster’s New World Dictionary, Second College Edition (1974) defines the word “apostasy” as “an abandoning of what one believed in, as a faith, political party, principles, etc.”)
The clear meaning of verse 3 is that Christ’s return to gather His saints cannot occur until AFTER “the Antichrist” has been revealed. Yet Pre-Trib writers state that the Church is evacuated out before THEIR exclusively future, single, “Mr. Nasty Antichrist” person is revealed!
By now some Pre-Trib’ers may be saying, “The poor writer of this newsletter just doesn’t understand that Christ’s Second Coming is in TWO phases: the ‘Rapture’ and the ‘Revelation’, with the ‘Rapture’ coming BEFORE the tribulation, and the ‘Revelation’ coming AFTER the tribulation.” Well, let’s address such an argument now: Let me ask Pre-Trib’ers who advocate a “two-phased” Second Coming of Christ this: “Was Christ’s First Coming in TWO phases?” The answer is “No!” And there are absolutely no Scripture verses to be found that support the idea of a “two-phased” Second Coming of Jesus Christ! As Jesus Christ left this earth after His resurrection, and as He was ascending up to heaven, His watching disciples were told: “…This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in LIKE MANNER AS ye have seen Him go into heaven.” (See Acts 1:11) Well, did Jesus Christ have a “TWO-phased” departure from earth into heaven after His “first coming”? Did He go up part of the way, turn around and come back down, and then go back up all the way on a “SECOND” departure? NO! Jesus Christ simply ascended up (in ONE phase) into heaven! And the Bible says that He is coming back in LIKE MANNER!
III. THE HISTORICAL RECORD
Actually, the historical record of some of the “futurist” elements found in “Dispensationalism”, a system of Biblical interpretation that has been used to mightily promote both the Pre-Trib Rapture and the “exclusively future” antichrist, goes all the way back to the Counter-Reformation movement launched by the JESUITS around the time of the Council of Trent (1545-1563). (Note: The Counter-Reformation was launched to first slow down, and then eventually to destroy, the Protestant Reformation – and the “fruit” that it had produced.)
Since the top Protestant Reformers had all identified “Papal Rome” – and more specifically, the Papacy – as the Antichrist found in the pages of Holy Scripture, the Jesuits had to find a way to take the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy. Steve Wohlberg, on page 114 of his book, “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”, tells us:
“At the Council of Trent [Ed.: 1545-1563], papal leaders and JESUITS brainstormed about how to counteract Protestantism and bring defectors back to the mother church. Behind closed doors, they decided this was to be done, not only through the Inquisition and torture, but also through THEOLOGY. What kind of theology? Here’s the answer: By reinterpreting the prophecies about ‘the man of sin’, ‘the little horn’, and ‘the beast’!
Two very intelligent Spanish JESUITS rose to the challenge: Luis de Alcasar (1554-1613) of Seville and Francisco Ribera (1537-1591) of Salamanca. Their strategy was, in a nutshell, one of reapplication and diversion, yet they went in opposite directions. After reading the Bible by candlelight like Martin Luther did, [Jesuit Luis de] Alcasar decided to apply the Bible’s antichrist prophecies to the ancient past while [Jesuit Francisco] Ribera applied them to the distant future. ‘Smart move!’ was the response from [Papal] Rome. By reapplying these prophecies to the past and to the future instead of to the present, these two tricky JESUIT scholars sought to divert the prophetic finger light years away from the Vatican. Their views quickly became official positions within the Roman [Catholic] Church – even though these two views contradicted each other!”
Isn’t it interesting that we find a “JESUIT” hand involved in concocting at least some of the “futurist” elements found in Dispensationalism and its Pre-Trib Rapture? First we find the “hand” of Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera. And then we find the “hand” of Chilean Jesuit Emmanuel Lacunza. As stated in the “Definitions” section under the term “Lacunza, Emmanuel”:
“Emmanuel Lacunza was a Chilean JESUIT who wrote the four-volume book ‘The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty’. He was born in 1731, and he died in 1801. Lacunza had used the pseudonym of Rabbi Juan Josafat Ben Ezra for his book in order to deceive Protestants into thinking that it had been written by a Messianic [i.e., “Converted”] Jew, thus for a time concealing its JESUIT origins! Lacunza’s book provided at least some of the ingredients for the largely fictional prophetic concoction that is today called the Pre-Tribulation Rapture – a doctrine that is one of the pillars of ‘Dispensationalism’.” Please remember that Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving “supervised” the translation of Jesuit Lacunza’s book into English!
It is also worth repeating in this section a paragraph from the “Definitions” section concerning the history of the Pre-Trib Rapture:
“The [Ed.: Pre-Trib] Rapture has its origins in the nineteenth century – beginning, according to one critic [Ed.: i.e., author Dave MacPherson], with a young girl’s vision. In 1830, in Port Glasgow, Scotland, fifteen-year-old Margaret MacDonald attended a healing service. There, she was said to have seen a vision of a two-stage return of Jesus Christ. The story of her vision was adopted and amplified by John Nelson Darby, a British evangelical preacher and founder of the Plymouth Brethren.” – Barbara R. Rossing (“The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 22)
It seems that the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint did not really catch on anywhere until at least the 1830s. It seems to have made its “official debut” in England, and then made its way across the Atlantic Ocean to the USA with the help of John Nelson Darby. Until that time, the prevailing prophetic viewpoint among Christians in the USA was the Post-Trib Rapture view. Dave MacPherson, in his book, “The Incredible Cover-Up”, traces the origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine back to the British Isles, where we find such characters as a Scottish lassie named Margaret MacDonald, Scottish Presbyterian minister Edward Irving, and John Nelson Darby. Dave MacPherson does a great job of showing the “British” origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine; however, certain “futurist” elements used in Dispensationalism and Pre-Trib actually go back slightly farther in history, to Jesuits Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza.
This British “creation” of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine was later popularized in the USA by the “Scofield Study Bible”. It is not within the scope (i.e., limited space) of this newsletter to go more deeply into the historical side of the “Rapture debate”. If the reader wishes to do more research on the history of the Pre-Trib Rapture, then contact “Christian Media” at 1-541-899-8888 for information on the Dave MacPherson books that they offer through their ministry. It is important to keep in mind that Spanish Jesuit Francisco Ribera helped to promote the “futurist” view of the “exclusively future, end-time, single antichrist” in order to take the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy, which had been fingered as the “Antichrist” seen in Scripture by the Protestant Reformers!
(The “notes” in the Scofield Study Bible strongly promote “dispensational” viewpoints, including the Pre-Trib Rapture. Scofield’s notes were largely responsible for some of these new “futuristic” prophetic viewpoints (portions of which were developed by several Roman Catholic Jesuits), along with the Pre-Trib Rapture, “taking off” here in the USA! The 314-page hardback book, “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” by Joseph M. Canfield, reveals much about both Cyrus I. Scofield and his dispensational belief system. As author Loraine Boettner states concerning this book: “This is one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensational system.”)
IV. SOME MORE RELEVANT QUOTATIONS:
“The [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture has become embedded in American Christian culture today, but the idea of the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] Rapture is less than two hundred years old.” – Barbara R. Rossing, author of “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation”; 2004; Page 21)
“…NO passage anywhere in the New Testament explicitly puts before the tribulation a single one of the constituent elements: coming of Christ, resurrection, translation, gathering, catching up, and reception of saints.
…Yet the New Testament does tell us explicitly that Christ will come again after the tribulation, that saints will rise from the dead after the tribulation, and that the elect will be gathered after the tribulation – and [the Apostle] Paul uses their being gathered synonymously with their being caught up (compare 1 Thess. 4:16-17 with 2 Thess. 2:1) and puts the translation of some together with the resurrection of others (1 Cor. 15:15-52).” – [Dr. Robert] “Bob” Gundry (“First the Antichrist”; 1997; Pages 72, 73)
“The Lord Jesus Christ did NOT say [that] He would return twice; He said [that] He would return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation. (See Matthew 24:29)” – Lisa Ruby (“GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Page 62)
“…I am compelled to warn all Christians trusting in the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] rapture of the foolishness of such a course.” – James Lloyd (“The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism”; 1999; Page 3)
“Furthermore, many, many Christians simply don’t want to be told [Ed: emphasis in original] that they might be forced to endure ‘The Great Tribulation’ described in The Bible” – James Lloyd (“The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism”; 1999; Page 3)
“I’ve been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China the Christians were told, ‘Don’t worry, before the tribulation comes, you will be translated – raptured.’ Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a bishop from China say, sadly, ‘We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first.’
Turning to me he said, ‘You still have time. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when tribulation comes – to stand and not faint.’
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation…
Since I have gone already through prison for Jesus’ sake, and since I met that bishop from China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think ‘Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation.’ Then I write it down and learn it by heart.” – Corrie ten Boom (a wonderful Christian lady)
“…The leaders of the underground church [Ed.: in Red China] said they didn’t want American missionaries to come and preach the ‘foolish doctrine of the rapture’.” – Brother Andrew (author of “God’s Smuggler”; missionary to Red China and Russia; quote taken from page 35 of the book, “I WANT To Be Left Behind”, by Pastor Ron Poch)
“…Until the mid-1800s and the preaching of [John Nelson] Darby and [Cyrus I.] Scofield, no one, whether Catholic or Protestant, had dreamed of an end-time escapism.
Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Impe and other dispensationalists appeal to those who long for a certitude that they need not suffer one hour, not one moment of a long period of hardships.” – Dr. James M. Dunn (Baptist Joint Committee, Washington, D.C. – quote taken from page 35 of the book, “Forcing God’s Hand”, by Grace Halsell)
“In what may very well be the greatest tragedy of the last two centuries, the dispensational theorists have seized the reins of leadership in the ‘Church’, and as they have consolidated their power, they have widely programmed millions of church attendees into believing in something called the [Ed.: Pre-Tribulation] ‘rapture’.” – James Lloyd (“The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 1)
“Modern pre-tribbers who claim [that] the [Ed.: Pre-Trib] doctrine was taught throughout the last two millennia make a mockery of massive historical data and basic scholarship.” – James Lloyd (“The Reckoning”; 2007; Page 22)
“Sadly, the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine has become the great evangelical escape clause for the avoidance of the end times.” – Steve Wohlberg (“End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”; 2004; Page 36)
“…To believe a false teaching such as ‘an any moment rapture’ is to belittle the sacrifice by those who have given their all.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 36)
V. INDIVIDUAL VIEWS ON THE TIMING OF THE RAPTURE
I personally do NOT KNOW of, nor have heard of, any individuals who held the Post-Trib viewpoint for many years, and then subsequently CHANGED to the Pre-Trib viewpoint after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer. NOR have I READ about any Post-Trib’ers doing that. However, I personally do know a fair number of individuals who had held the Pre-Trib viewpoint for many years, and then who later SWITCHED to the Post-Trib viewpoint after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer.
Examples of some men (who SWITCHED from the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint to the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint after heavy-duty Bible study on that prophetic topic, and/or after much prayer, and in at least one case, after a long fast) include (names are listed, hopefully, in alphabetical order):
(1) Pastor Dwight Kinman, author of the excellent book “The World’s Last Dictator”, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for almost 40 years. After carefully searching the Scriptures to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib (and began to publicly teach Post-Trib). His above-mentioned book promotes the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint.
(2) Pastor David W. Lankford (author and broadcast host) also had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. As the back cover of his excellent book, “The Second Coming: A Second Look”, states: “After weeks of fasting and prayer and diligent study of Scripture, Pastor Lankford’s long-held beliefs about The Second Coming were changed.”
(3) James Lloyd (author; publisher of two periodicals; broadcast host of “The Apocalypse Chronicles”) had believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for years. Study of the Bible convinced James that the Post-Trib viewpoint was the correct one! James has written four books dealing with the topic of Pre-Trib Rapturism! His website is www.ChristianMediaNetwork.com.
(4) G. Campbell Morgan, who was considered by some of his time as the greatest Christian scholar of his era, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. After in-depth study of the Holy Bible to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib. He felt so badly about having previously taught the Pre-Trib viewpoint, and about having written a book supporting Pre-Trib, that he purchased the plates to the book and destroyed them!
(5) Pastor Butch Paugh (author; and host of the “Call to Decision” broadcast) had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for years. Yet it was Bible study that convinced him that the Pre-Trib prophetic viewpoint is a FALSE doctrine. He now teaches the Post-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint over the “airwaves”, as well as to his two local congregations in West Virginia. His excellent Internet website is: www.calltodecision.com (the shorter title: www.pastorbutch.com). Pastor Butch Paugh has produced several audiocassette tape sets that deal with the “rapture” timing issue, and they are currently available through his ministry. You can call his ministry toll-free at 1-800-777-4403 for information on how to order those items via credit card.
(6) Pastor Ron Poch (author of the book “I WANT To Be Left Behind”) once believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, because that is what he had been taught at Bible College! He had the courage to admit that he had been wrong to believe the Pre-Trib Rapture, and that his teachers had been wrong to teach it!
(7) Jim Spillman (author, pastor, evangelist, and Bible scholar), who at one time pastored a very large church in California, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint for many years. After going into his prayer closet for several days, where he studied ONLY the Holy Bible in order to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he came to the conclusion that the Holy Bible clearly teaches the Post-Trib viewpoint. He then had the courage to go before his large congregation and ADMIT to them that he had been teaching them FALSE doctrine (i.e., the Pre-Trib viewpoint) for all those previous years! (That takes a lot of GUTS!)
Although I’ve already mentioned a number of books that REFUTE the Pre-Trib Rapture, this would be a good place to list all the books (which I personally possess) that provide good, sound arguments AGAINST the Pre-Tribulation Rapture prophetic viewpoint. (My recommendation of these books does not necessarily mean that I agree with everything that is written in each of them. I will try to list the books alphabetically by title.)
NOTE: You may have to do a search on the Internet or visit a good library to find some of these books. Some of them can be purchased at larger bookstore chains. Some of them are out of print, and may no longer be available, and/or prices may have changed. (Order information is provided only if I have such in my records.)
(1) “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World” by Steve Wohlberg; 2004; 220-page paperback book; Publisher: Treasure House; $18.45 postage paid. (To order this book via credit card, please call toll-free 1-800-78-BIBLE.)
(2) “First the Antichrist” by Dr. Robert H. (“Bob”) Gundry; 1997; 200-page paperback book; Publisher: Baker Books. (This book is currently out of print. I would suggest that you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
(3) “Forcing God’s Hand: Why Millions Pray for a Quick Rapture – And Destruction of Planet Earth” by Grace Halsell; 1999; 132-page paperback book; Publisher: Crossroads International Publishing, Washington, D.C.
(4) “Invisible Scripture” by James Lloyd; 2006; 27-page paperback book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(5) “I WANT To Be Left Behind” by Pastor Ron Poch; 2002; 130-page paperback book; Publisher: Proclaim Liberty Ministries; $12 postage paid: To order a copy via credit card, please call toll-free 1-888-820-2126.
(6) “Lying in Laodicea: Rapturism Unmasked” by James Lloyd; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(7) “The Incredible Cover-Up: Exposing the Origins of Rapture Theories” by Dave MacPherson; 1975; 166-page paperback book (1980 & 1991) published by Omega Publications, Medford, Oregon. (This book is currently out of print. I would suggest that you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
(8) “The Rapture Book: Victory in the End Times” by Dr. James McKeever; 1987; 225-page paperback book; Publisher: Omega Publications, Medford, Oregon. (This book is probably out of print. Search the Internet for used copies.)
(9) “The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism” by James Lloyd; 1999; 66-page book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(10) “The Rapture Exposed: The Message of Hope in the Book of Revelation” by Barbara R. Rossing; 2004; 222-page paperback book; Publisher: Basic Books. (I purchased my copy at a local Barnes & Noble bookstore.)
(11) “The Rapture Plot” by Dave MacPherson; 1994; 290-page paperback book; my edition was published in 1995 by MILLENNIUM III PUBLISHERS. (A newer, 300-page edition of this book is available through Christian Media for $22.25 postage paid. Make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.)
(12) “The Reckoning” by James Lloyd; 2007; 45-page paperback book; Publisher: Christian Media; $7 postage paid: To obtain a copy, please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(13) “The Second Coming: A Second Look” by Pastor David W. Lankford; 1996; 95-page paperback book; Publisher: Wolf Publishing: Pastor Lankford’s book, along with a two-audiocassette tape set on the topic of the Second Coming, was available several years ago for $20 postage paid by calling phone number 704-263-1945, or by making check or money order in that amount payable to “The Voice of Evangelism”, and mailing it to: The Voice of Evangelism // P.O. Box 669 // Alexis, NC 28006. (NOTE: The price may have changed; I suggest that you call to find out the current price if you are interested in this book and tape set.)
(14) “The Three R’s: Rapture, Revisionism, Robbery: Pretribulation Rapturism from 1830 to Hal Lindsey” by Dave MacPherson; 1998; 149-page paperback book; Publisher: P.O.S.T., Inc.; $15 postage paid. Please make check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mail it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530.
(15) “The World’s Last Dictator” by Dwight L. Kinman; Second Edition: 1995; 322-page paperback book; Publisher: Solid Rock Books, Inc., Woodburn, Oregon. (This book is probably out of print. I would suggest you do a search on the Internet for used copies.)
And while we are talking about good books, here is an excellent book that exposes a number of the unscriptural teachings in the “Left Behind” series (a series of books and tapes that promote the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint):
“GOD’S WRATH on Left Behind: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the Left Behind Series” by Lisa Ruby; 216-page paperback; 2002; ISBN 0-9721264-0-6: Months ago she was giving her book away – you simply had to pay shipping and handling: For information on how to order this book, please visit her Internet website: www.libertytothecaptives.net.
Interestingly, many famous Christian men in the past believed in and taught Post-Trib [that is, that the “Church” goes through the Tribulation period], including Charles H. Spurgeon, John Bunyan (author of “Pilgrim’s Progress”), John Calvin, Charles Finney, John Knox, Martin Luther, and George Whitefield.
Interestingly, NONE of these following learned Christians ever made any reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture: John Wycliffe, or John or Charles Wesley.
Interestingly, there seem to be NO records of the great pastors of the American Revolution (such as Jonas Clark, John Peter Gabriel Muhlenburg, James Caldwell, etc.) ever making ANY reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Most interestingly, NONE of the following ever made ANY mention in the Holy Bible to the Pre-Trib evacuation of Christians BEFORE the alleged “future 7-year tribulation” and appearance of the end-time antichrist: (1) the Lord Jesus Christ, (2) the Apostle Paul, (3) the Apostle Peter, and (4) the Apostle John! Nor did they make ANY mention of the Mid-Trib/Pre-Wrath Rapture! Doesn’t it seem strange that there is NOT ONE SINGLE verse of Scripture that declares something like the following HYPOTHETICAL “statements”?
(1) “Verily, immediately prior to the start of the seven-year period of the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(2) “Verily, seven years before the Revelation of Jesus Christ [the alleged 2nd part of His alleged two-stage 2nd Coming], the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(3) “Verily, three and one half years into the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth – just prior to the beginning of God’s Wrath!”
No, there is NOT EVEN ONE such Bible verse, or even one verse that closely resembles those hypothetical statements, to be found in the Holy Bible!
Interestingly, John F. Walvoord, a leader in the Pre-Trib Rapture movement and author of a number of books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, admitted that there was NOT ONE SINGLE Bible verse that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture!
VI. A VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION
I would like to ask a question here that Pre-Trib’ers never seem to ask themselves – because I have never seen it addressed in their writings.
Why would any end-time believers in Jesus Christ be taken off the planet in the alleged Pre-Trib Rapture (so that they would not have to face the horrors that occur during the “end-times’ tribulation”), when so many other Christians have faced horrible persecution and tribulation throughout Church history? The horrors of Papal Rome’s monstrous Inquisition come to mind. The horrible persecution of the Scottish Covenanters comes to mind. The horrible persecution of the Albigenses, Waldenses, and French Huguenots by Papal Rome comes to mind. The horrible persecution of early Christians by several of the Roman emperors comes to mind. Why in blazes would there be a “special class” of Christians in the “end times” that is exempt from horrible persecution?
Yes, I do know the arguments of the Pre-Trib’ers:
1. “God would not allow His bride (the Church) to go through the horrible end-times’ tribulation period, where ‘she’ would be bloodied.”
2. “God has not appointed us to wrath, so we Christians living in the ‘end times’ will NOT have to go through the end-times’ tribulation period.”
The Pre-Trib’ers apply such good things only to themselves – i.e., they won’t have to go through the “end-times’ tribulation” because they haven’t been “appointed to wrath”, and because they are the “bride of Christ”. However, these same Pre-Trib’ers believe that those people who get saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” (under more stressful conditions than many of those “air evacuated” Christians ever had to face) – well, those “saved-during-the-end-times’-tribulation” believers do NOT get to be spared from “God’s wrath”, because they are evidently NOT as much a part of “Christ’s bride” as those Christians who were “raptured” prior to the start of the “end-times’ tribulation”! What is wrong with this “picture”? I Thessalonians 5:9 lets us know that God has not appointed any believers (including those who go through the “end-times’ tribulation”) to [His] wrath, but rather “to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”. The Pre-Trib’ers surely are getting the “Antichrist’s wrath” MIXED UP with “God’s wrath” during the “end-times’ tribulation”, and ASSUME they won’t be facing the “Antichrist’s wrath” during that period. All that “nasty stuff” is reserved for those “other” Christians who get saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” (according to the Pre-Trib’ers). Again, HOW IN BLAZES can this group of Pre-Trib’ers think that they are going to get a massive “break” from horrible persecution and evil during the “end-times’ tribulation” when MILLIONS of Christians in other centuries faced the most horrible persecution, and quite likely MILLIONS of Christians will be martyred by the Antichrist system in the future? I personally cannot figure out this Pre-Trib “logic” – but I do think that the Pre-Trib Rapture is “illogical ESCAPISM to the maximum degree”, thrown in with a lot of ignorance of key Bible verses – along with some fantastic twisting and “torturing” of other Bible verses!
The following quotation from Steve Wohlberg’s book, “End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World”, is quite revealing. Steve Wohlberg states: “Could it be that the idea of escaping tribulation is really only catering to our lukewarm American tendencies? We like comfort; hate to go through trials; and can hardly bear it when our TV-dinner lifestyle is threatened. Yet historically, God’s people have gone through intense suffering. All the disciples of Jesus [Christ], except John, were brutally murdered. Thousands of early Christians were torn to shreds by wild dogs inside the Coliseum. Millions of others were horribly tortured by the Inquisition and burnt to ashes during the Dark Ages. …Believers in Russia and [Red] China have suffered terribly under communism, and yet American Christians say, ‘God wouldn’t allow us to go through the tribulation!’”
VII. BAD FRUIT
I have heard Pre-Trib’ers say that the “imminent” [i.e., “at any moment”] return of the Lord Jesus Christ makes them serve the Lord more fervently. That may be true for some Pre-Trib’ers, as I do personally know one Pre-Trib Rapture pastor who is really fighting hard against corruption and tyranny.
However, many of the Pre-Trib’ers (whom I personally know) use the Pre-Trib Rapture as an excuse to sit back, and to do absolutely nothing to fight against corruption and tyranny. I’ve heard: “Why should I care about the evil movement towards one-world government, etc., that we see today – don’t you know, I’m going to be out of here in the ‘rapture’ BEFORE things really get bad.” I’ve heard that, and similar statements, from many Pre-Trib’ers who are just sitting around, NOT opposing corruption and tyranny, waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to “air evacuate” them out BEFORE things get really “hairy” [i.e., dangerous]. Another statement I’ve heard is this: “Don’t resist the New World Order, because, don’t you know, it’s all been prophesied.” Such thinking on the part of many Pre-Trib’ers does not “square” with numerous Biblical admonitions to expose evil and to fight against it! (For example, please see Ephesians 5:11.)
VIII. SUMMARY
1. As Pre-Trib writer and leader John Walvoord admits, there is NO SINGLE verse of Scripture that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture.
2. Pre-Trib’ers FORCE ASSUMPTIONS on many key Bible verses – especially assuming that all references to “saints” and to the “elect” (who are being persecuted and martyred during the “end-times’ tribulation”) must refer to “those individuals who are saved” AFTER the Pre-Trib Rapture has taken place. (Again, how are all these folks getting saved during the “end-times’ tribulation” if the “Church” and the “restrainer” [i.e., the Holy Spirit according to Pre-Trib’ers] have been removed?)
3. We are NOT able to find one single instance in the New Testament where the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, or the Apostle John made any statement to the effect that “the church is to be evacuated off of planet Earth seven years PRIOR to the beginning of the end-times’ tribulation period”. Isn’t that a bit strange if the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is the correct one?
4. Despite taking several texts OUT OF CONTEXT from a few early church fathers’ writings, the Pre-Trib’ers really CANNOT find any predominant, popular teaching that supports the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint in any era of Church history prior to the 1830s.
5. Many learned men of the Christian faith, such as John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield, etc., were all solid Post-Trib believers!
6. The Pre-Trib Rapture is a very big “cash cow” for Pre-Trib writers. Yet, there are some Pre-Trib’ers who will admit that the Pre-Trib Rapture prophetic viewpoint is still a minority viewpoint among Bible scholars. How can that be, you may ask, since so many prophecy books favor the “Pre-Trib” viewpoint? That is because so many of the major “Christian” publishing houses are, for the most part, CONTROLLED by “liberal Christians”. Post-Trib writers often find it extremely hard to get their books published by these publishing houses, because Pre-Trib “sells”. (Could that be because the Pre-Trib Rapture appeals to an “escapist” mentality? It’s that mentality of “I sure don’t want to be here when the Antichrist takes over!” The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint appeals to our “flesh” – after all, who wants to face persecution?) Also, Dr. Robert “Bob” Gundry says that most of the professors [at Bible colleges] that he knows hold the Post-Trib Rapture viewpoint. He adds that even some of the professors at Bible colleges of the “Pre-Trib Rapture persuasion” hold the Post-Trib viewpoint, but cannot say so publicly for fear of losing their positions! Students who openly advocate Post-Trib at these “Pre-Trib Bible colleges” might not be allowed to graduate!
7. Despite the fact that many Pre-Trib’ers dislike author Dave MacPherson, they have NOT been able to disprove his well-documented findings that show that the Pre-Trib Rapture’s origins (as far as any public teaching) date back to the 1830s – and not earlier than that era! Nor have the Pre-Trib’ers been able to disprove MacPherson’s findings that the vast majority of the early church fathers taught that the church would go THROUGH the “end-times’ tribulation” – and lots of tribulation along the way to the “end-times’ tribulation”.
8. Public teaching of the Pre-Trib Rapture originated in the British Isles during the 1830s. (The Jesuits did some “futurist creativity” in the prophetic arena many years prior to that time.) The Pre-Trib “theory” was then “transported” to America a little bit later, and was popularized by the “Scofield Study Bible”.
9. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, one must ignore several key Bible verses that speak directly against the Pre-Trib Rapture, such as John 17:15 where the Lord Jesus Christ Himself prays that the Father NOT take believers OUT OF the world – and I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 (which says that the Christians living at the time of Jesus Christ’s return are not caught up UNTIL AFTER the “dead in Christ” are raised “FIRST”)!
10. Believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture, it seems to me, goes AGAINST the prevalent theme of those portions of the Bible that deal with tribulation and persecution. That prevalent theme is “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. (Please recall the accounts of Daniel in the lions’ den, and of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego in the fiery furnace!)
11. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, you have to ASSUME that you will be among a very “select group” of Christians who will not have to suffer horrible things during the “end-times’ tribulation”. Your “select group” excludes those MILLIONS of Christians from past centuries who were NOT “air evacuated” out of their tribulation and suffering, and the many individuals who get “saved” (i.e., are “born again”) during the “end-times’ tribulation”, and who will suffer martyrdom!
12. The Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint, for the most part, seems to produce very BAD FRUIT – that is, it seems to have “neutralized” many Christians living today, causing them to sit back and to NOT fight evil. (And that’s, because, don’t you know, they won’t be here when things get really bad.) Could this “doctrine” have been specifically designed to “neutralize” Christians?
IX. FINAL THOUGHTS:
The Scripture verses alone that I have placed in this newsletter ought to be sufficient to show any individual with an “open mind” that the Pre-Trib Rapture is NOT taught in the Holy Bible.
The historical record that I have presented in this newsletter ought to raise some serious questions among those who preach and teach the Pre-Trib Rapture that there is something seriously wrong here. The Jesuit Order has for years tried to undermine the Protestant Reformation, with the ultimate goal of DESTROYING it. They have used a number of “tools” to accomplish their goal – and two of their best “tools” have been:
(1) INFILTRATION of Protestant, independent Baptist, and independent fundamentalist schools, seminaries, societies, associations, organizations, and fellowships; and,
(2) AUTHORING and INSERTING portions of “futurist” doctrines (such as a “future seven-year tribulation period” and an “exclusively future ‘Mr. Nasty’ Antichrist”), via the Pre-Trib Rapture, into Protestant, independent Baptist, and independent fundamentalist “circles” that NEUTRALIZE many Bible-believing Christians, causing them to feel “warm, fuzzy, safe, and secure” when, in fact, they are in great danger, and therefore ought to be fighting evil! (Please see Ephesians 5:11, Psalm 94:16, and Ezekiel 22:30, 31.)
Let me ask you pastors and preachers, who have been teaching and preaching the Pre-Trib Rapture viewpoint to your “flocks”, a couple of very “tough” questions:
(1)“How does it make you feel to know that you have been deceived by some Jesuits, such as Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza, into believing a lot of ‘futurist’ doctrine found within ‘Dispensationalism’, to include a ‘future seven-year tribulation period’ and an ‘exclusively future single Antichrist’ (that wonderfully succeeded in taking the ‘SPOTLIGHT’ off of the Papacy as the historical Antichrist found on the pages of Holy Scripture) – beliefs that are pillars of Dispensationalism and its Pre-Trib Rapture?”
(2) “What are you going to do now that you know the TRUTH?”
Here is something else for those who teach or preach the Pre-Trib Rapture to think about: Your promotion of this doctrine could cause some Christians (who are taught it) to believe that they are in no danger from an Antichrist system that will be targeting Protestants and independent, Bible-believing Christians for DESTRUCTION. How would you feel if you met these folks in heaven – folks who had not taken appropriate measures to defend themselves and their families, and had to watch as murderous thugs raped, tortured, and murdered their family members in front of their very eyes – all because they thought they “wouldn’t be here” when that end-time tribulation occurs – based upon what you taught?
Throughout almost 2000 years of Christian history, MILLIONS of Christians have suffered through horrible persecution and tribulation! MILLIONS of these same Christians were martyred for their steadfast faith in Jesus Christ, and for their refusal to deny their true King! MILLIONS of these Christians were also martyred because they refused to bow to Papal Rome and her false claims of total authority over all Christians in the world! TWO QUESTIONS: (1) Is it not the “height of arrogance” for you believers in the Pre-Trib Rapture to think that you will be part of a relatively small, “special class” of Christians (i.e., those who are living during the “end times”) who alone of all generations of Christians are to be spared horrible persecution and tribulation? (2) What makes YOU so special and so much more worthy to be “protected” than earlier generations of Christians?
One more “final thought”: I would like to repeat a portion of author Lisa Ruby’s comments concerning the “Left Behind” series (which appeared earlier in the “Definitions” section of this newsletter), along with a few comments:
“…Even more disturbing is that the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors’ depiction of the happenings at the outset of the tribulation parallel what is actually planned [Ed.: emphasis in original] by the New World Order elitists. …There will be mass disappearances around the world that might be reported by the media as occurring simultaneously, but they will NOT occur because Jesus Christ has taken His people from the earth in a secret, pre-tribulation rapture that He NEVER promised. The horrific happenings [that] the [‘Left Behind’ series] authors portrayed as being caused by Jesus rapturing His people from the earth before the tribulation is WITHOUT any scriptural foundation. …The ‘Left Behind’ series sends the message that if you hear of mass disappearances [Ed.: during the “tribulation”] you should not suspect that any foul play occurred.” (From Lisa Ruby’s book “GOD’S WRATH on ‘Left Behind’: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the ‘Left Behind’ Series”; 2002; Pages 61 and 64)
My comments concerning the above quotation:
(1) Could it just be that the “Left Behind” series of books and movies – along with a multitude of other books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture – have “programmed” MILLIONS of Americans to sit back and not be concerned when the “enforcers” of the Jesuit-controlled, tyrannical, “one-world government” begin causing the “disappearances” of thousands upon thousands of Bible-believing Christians and patriots (who had showed signs of opposing their one-world government and one-world religion)? Will many of these “programmed” Americans ASSUME that the mass “disappearances” are due to the Pre-Trib Rapture? Will some of these “programmed” Americans ASSUME that they have missed the Pre-Trib Rapture, and then fall into great despair?
(2) Many of these Pre-Trib-Rapture-“programmed” Americans currently are totally unprepared for those end-time events that will be orchestrated by the Antichrist system of one-world government and one-world religion!
P.S. (Added on September 28, 2007): The Pre-Trib Rapture is a prominent feature of “Dispensationalism” – which became popular in America in the mid 1800s. One of the books most responsible for the advancement of Dispensationalism in America was the “Scofield Reference Bible” (a.k.a. the “Scofield Study Bible”), whose notes were prepared by Cyrus I. Scofield. If you would like to learn more about the life of Cyrus I. Scofield, and about his famous “Study Bible”, then please get a copy of the book, “The Incredible Scofield and His Book”, by Joseph M. Canfield (1988; Ross House Books, Vallecito, California). Dr. Loraine Boettner describes this book as “one of the most powerful books that has ever been written against the dispensational system.” Boettner also states concerning Canfield’s book: “…If dispensationalists would read it carefully, perhaps half of them would turn from that system.” (You should be able to do a “google-style” search on the Internet to find a copy of this book.)
P.P.S. (Added on February 23, 2008): Some people, especially those who are ignorant of “Church” history and European history, will scoff at the idea that the Jesuits could have had anything to do with certain “futurist” elements in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. In my definition of the “Jesuit Order”, I stated that one of the Jesuits’ primary goals was “to roll back the Protestant Reformation”. In order to accomplish this objective, the Jesuits decided to use several key “tools”:
(1) Attempt to gain control of the political leadership of Protestant countries (e.g., through such means as “regime change”, bribery, extortion, placing their lackeys in key positions within the government, etc. – i.e., ruling the country from “behind the scenes”) – or by assassinating the head of State and replacing him or her with someone loyal to the Papacy);
(2) Attempt to violently overthrow the governments of some of these Protestant countries (e.g., through fomenting revolution and/or by actually invading the targeted country with military forces loyal to the Papacy);
NOTE: A good example of #2 was the attempted invasion of England by the Spanish Armada in 1588. The Spanish Armada had wanted to land Spanish troops on British soil, and these troops were to be assisted by armed Roman Catholics in the British Isles in overthrowing the government – and in the process placing England once again under Papal control! In fact, Pope Sixtus V [pope: 1585-90] promised Spanish King Philip II that the Papacy would provide financial support for this invasion. (If you doubt this, then please read the book “Jesuit Plots from Elizabethan to Modern Times” by Albert Close. This 194-page paperback book is only $8.95 postage paid. To order a copy, please make check or postal money order payable to “The Conversion Center”, and mail it to: The Conversion Center // P.O. Box 265 // Carthage, NC 28327-0265.)
(3) Attempt to gain control of the religious leadership of Protestant countries (e.g., through such means as bribery, extortion, placing their lackeys in key positions within Protestant churches, seminaries, religious societies and associations, etc.)
NOTE: A good example of this Jesuit INFILTRATION of religious associations and societies was the Oxford movement. Begun officially in 1833, the Oxford movement, led by John Henry Newman (who later became a Roman Catholic cardinal), issued 90 pamphlets/tracts that were intended to draw the Anglican Church much closer to Papal Rome’s doctrines. (The ultimate goal was to make Roman Catholicism once again the State religion in England.)
(4) Attempt to INSERT theological “viruses” (designed to neutralize true Christianity) into the doctrines of Protestant denominations and independent Bible-believing groups by having their undercover agents (i.e., “moles”) suggest various doctrinal views, such as in the realm of Bible prophecy.
NOTE: Some examples of #4 occurred in the realm of the exclusively “futurist” view of prophecy, where two Jesuits (i.e., Francisco Ribera and Emmanuel Lacunza) and a papal undercover agent (i.e., John Henry Newman) helped provide certain key elements in the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine (e.g., a “future 7-year tribulation period” and a “single, exclusively future, end-time Antichrist” that took the “SPOTLIGHT” off of the Papacy). Please consider the following quote by Pastor Ron Poch, taken from pages 121 and 122 of his book, “I WANT To Be Left Behind”, concerning numerous Reformers and scholars who subscribed to the “historicist” [or, historical] view of Bible prophecy:
“This [Ed.: historicist or historical] view [Ed.: of Bible prophecy] postulates that the Book of Revelation predicts events occurring from the 1st century up to our present day. This view, according to many theologians and reformers of the past, offers a freedom in the interpretation of the text in applying the prophecies to actual historical events that have taken place from the 1st century. The historical position [Ed.: of Bible prophecy] looks at Church history from the time of John the revelator to the culmination of all prophetic events, some even yet future.
It is very important to note that many reformers, men of God, teachers and Bible translators and scholars taught this [Ed.: historicist or historical] position concerning Bible prophecy. Many of the men on the following list did not agree on certain doctrinal beliefs, but they were all in general agreement concerning the interpretation of Daniel’s seventy weeks identifying the beast system as religious papal Rome and the ‘man of sin’ being none other than the Roman popes who had taken the name Vicar of Christ.
Here’s a partial list of those who subscribed to the ‘historicist view’ of [Bible] prophecy:
[1.] John Wycliffe, 1329-1383 – English ‘Morning star of the Reformation’
[2.] John Knox, 1514-1572 – Scottish Presbyterian reformer
[3.] William Tyndale, 1494-1536 – English reformer, translator, martyr
[4.] John Calvin, 1509-1564 – French reformer and theologian
[5.] Martin Luther, 1483-1546 – German theologian and reformer
[6.] Ulrich Zwingli, 1484-1531 – Swiss reformer
[7.] Philip Melanchthon, 1497-1560 – [Ed.: German Protestant Reformer] Composed the Augustine confession
[8.] Sir Isaac Newton, 1642-1727 – English scientist and Bible scholar
[9.] John Huss, 1373-1415 – Bohemian reformer [Ed.: and martyr – he was burned as a heretic]
[10.] John Foxe, 1516-1587 – English author of ‘Foxe’s Book of Martyrs’
[11.] Charles Wesley, 1708-1788 – English hymn writer [Ed.: and clergyman]
[12.] John Wesley, 1703-1791 – [Ed.: English clergyman and evangelist]; Founder of Methodism
[13.] Jonathan Edwards, 1703-1758 – American theologian
[14.] George Whitfield, 1714-1770 – English evangelist
[15.] Charles Finney, 1792-1875 – American evangelist
[16.] Charles H. Spurgeon, 1834-1892 – English Baptist pastor
[17.] Adam Clarke, 1762-1832 – Methodist theologian
[18.] Matthew Henry, 1662-1714 – Welch Bible scholar
[19.] John Bunyan, 1628-1688 – [Ed.: English writer and preacher]; Puritan author of ‘Pilgrim’s Progress’
[20.] Hudson Taylor, 1832-1905 – English founder of China Inland Mission
[21.] F.B. Meyer, 1847-1929 – English Baptist preacher
Reading the names of these notable God-fearing men should cause us to search out why they believed this [Ed.: historicist] prophetic viewpoint. We cannot casually dismiss their approach to [Bible] prophecy while embracing the position of Reformed theology that they propounded, which has stood the test of time.”
NOTE: If you would like to learn more about the Jesuit Order, then please order the book “The Secret History of the Jesuits” by Edmond Paris. This 206-page paperback book is only $11.35 postage paid. To order a copy by credit card, call “Chick Publications” at 1-909-987-0771. Also, you can visit the following websites (hopefully listed alphabetically) that have a lot of information on various topics concerning the “Vatican-Papacy-Jesuit-Knights of Malta Cabal” and/or concerning the doctrines, practices, and history of the Roman Catholic Church:
www.arcticbeacon.com (Greg Szymanski of the “Investigative Journal”): This website has numerous articles about Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order, including articles that deal with recent lawsuits against the Roman Catholic Church. Greg Szymanski is a journalist who worked in Rome, and who has carefully researched the operations of the Vatican. Many of the articles on this website were written by him. Various resources dealing with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order are available through this website.
www.bereanbeacon.org (Richard Bennett, author of “Catholicism East of Eden”): This website has articles and DVDs dealing with Roman Catholicism, to include an outstanding DVD entitled “The Inquisition” (that deals with the Roman Catholic Church’s torture and mass murder of Bible-believing Christians). Books are also available through this website on a wide range of topics dealing with Roman Catholic doctrine and practices – including two books containing the testimonies of former Roman Catholic priests and nuns.
www.chick.com (“Chick Publications”): This website offers many great resources that deal with the topic of Roman Catholicism, including several outstanding books (e.g., “The Secret History of the Jesuits” by Edmond Paris).
www.ChristianMediaNetwork.com (James Lloyd of “Christian Media”): This website will give you details on James Lloyd’s excellent book dealing with “Mary worship”, entitled “The Queen of Heaven”. (It will also give you information on how to obtain numerous resources that refute the “Pre-Trib Rapture”. Please “click on” the “catalog” marker on his homepage.)
www.ctwilcox.com (C.T. Wilcox, professional actor and author of “The Transformation of the Republic”): This website has a number of articles dealing with Papal Rome and her Jesuit Order. The 345-page paperback book, “The Transformation of the Republic” (2005), by C.T. Wilcox, can be ordered on this website. (This book deals with Papal Rome’s involvement in the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, the manhunt for arch conspirator John Harrison Surratt, and the trials of the conspirators in the aftermath of the assassination.)
www.gordoncomstock.com (“Gordon Comstock”): This website contains many articles and podcasts dealing with Papal Rome and her Jesuit Order, as well as recommended resources for additional research.
www.SpirituallySmart.com (Thomas Richards): This website contains numerous articles and videos dealing with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order. It also contains many photographs showing Papal Rome’s great power and influence in the world.
www.toughissues.org (Darryl Eberhart, Editor of ETI & TTT newsletters): This website contains numerous articles dealing with Papal Rome’s bloody history, the sinister activities of the Jesuit Order, and various Roman Catholic doctrines and practices (such as “mandatory celibacy for priests”, papal infallibility, auricular confession to an authorized priest, etc.).
www.vaticanassassins.org (Eric Jon Phelps, author of “Vatican Assassins”): This website contains many articles on the Jesuit Order. You can order Phelps’ “Vatican Assassins” CD-ROM on this website. Eric Jon Phelps is the preeminent researcher in America today on the Jesuit Order and the Knights of Malta religious-military order (both of which are controlled by the Jesuit Superior General).
www.vaticandesignexposed.com (John Daniel, author of “The Grand Design Exposed”): Information on how to order John Daniel’s 411-page paperback book, “The Grand Design Exposed”, can be found on this website. (This book provides important information on how the Jesuit Order took over both British and French Freemasonry, as well as showing Jesuit and other Roman Catholic involvement in fomenting and directing the French Revolution of 1789-1799.)
www.vyzygoth.com (“Vyzygoth”): This website contains some articles and recorded broadcasts that deal with Papal Rome and the Jesuit Order.
CLOSING QUOTES:
“…Many of the Chinese Christians did not expect to have to give their lives during the ‘great purge’ by the Communist [Ed.: Chinese] insurgency. He [Ed.: i.e., Brother Andrew] said [that] while being tortured those [Ed.: Chinese Christian] saints were crying for the ‘rapture’ during their martyrdom. …What makes us better than those Chinese Christians? Don’t you think [that] they felt like they were going through ‘the great tribulation’?” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 35)
“We may not be asked or required to die a martyr’s death, but to believe a false teaching such as ‘an any moment rapture’ is to belittle the sacrifice by those who have given their all. Read ‘Foxe’s Book of Martyrs’ or ‘Jesus Freaks’ by DC Talk and ‘Voice of the Martyrs’ [that can be] found at your local Christian bookstore.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 36)
“If we continue believing in a wrong doctrine, we will effectively erect a stronghold in our mind that cannot be penetrated by truth.” – Pastor Ron Poch (“I WANT To Be Left Behind”; 2002; Page 9)
CLOSING BIBLE VERSE:
“Who will rise up for me against the evildoers, or who will stand up for me against the workers of iniquity?” (Psalm 96:16)
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
All Bible verses are taken from the Authorized King James Version.
The following abbreviations will be used throughout the text:
“Pre-Trib” = The Pre-Tribulation (Rapture)
“Post-Trib” = The Post-Tribulation (Rapture)
“Pre-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture
“Post-Trib’ers” = Individuals who believe in a Post-Tribulation Rapture.
I. INTRODUCTION
Is it really important what position Christians hold on the timing of the “Rapture”? Some Christians think that the timing of the “Rapture” is doctrinally unimportant. Other Christians believe that the Rapture “timing issue” is extremely important.
For those unfamiliar with the “Rapture debate”, the Pre-Trib’ers believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is going to “rapture” His church OFF OF planet Earth BEFORE the “Great Tribulation” begins. Post-Trib’ers believe that “the Church” is here on planet Earth DURING the “Great Tribulation”, and will be facing the Antichrist and his murderous hordes. The Post-Trib’ers believe that the Lord Jesus Christ will return at the END of the “Great Tribulation”.
The writer of this newsletter USED to believe in the Pre-Trib view. It is certainly the view that sells the most prophecy books. In fact, the Pre-Trib Rapture has been a fantastically big “cash cow” for a number of well-known prophecy writers.
It is important to note here that this editor believes that “the Antichrist” (in the form of a particular religious system) was revealed centuries ago, but that subject shall, God willing, be the topic of a separate ETI newsletter in the future. ((And “NO!” – I do not believe in the “Preterist View”, or that “the Antichrist” was Emperor Nero or any other particular single “nasty guy” in history.)) And though it is my strong belief that “the Antichrist” has already been revealed (which I believe can be strongly backed up with both Scriptural and historical evidence), I still believe that “the Church” will go through the entire tribulation period (i.e., the “Great Tribulation”). [note: Liberty To The Captives does not believe "that wicked" has been revealed yet.]Numerous Christians – including the best Bible scholars – held this belief that “the Church” would go through the “Great Tribulation” (i.e., the “Post-Trib” view) for many centuries until “Dispensationalism” hit the streets back in the 1800s! ((More on the subject of “Dispensationalism” will follow later.))
II. INDIVIDUAL VIEWS ON THE TIMING OF THE RAPTURE
I personally do NOT know of, nor have heard of, any individuals who held the Post-Trib view for many years, and then subsequently CHANGED to the Pre-Trib view after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer. NOR have I read about any Post-Trib’ers doing that. However, I personally do know a fair number of individuals who had held the Pre-Trib view for many years, and then who later SWITCHED to the Post-Trib view after much Bible study of that topic and/or after much prayer.
Examples of some men who SWITCHED from the Pre-Trib Rapture view to the Post-Trib Rapture view after heavy-duty Bible study on that prophetic topic, and/or after much prayer, and in at least one case, after a long fast, include:
1) G. Campbell Morgan, who was considered by some of his time as the greatest Christian scholar of his era, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture view for many years. After subsequent deep study of the Holy Bible to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib. He felt so badly about having previously taught the Pre-Trib view, and about having written a book supporting the Pre-Trib view, that he purchased the plates to the book and destroyed them!
2) Pastor Dwight Kinman, author of the outstanding book The World’s Last Dictator, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture view for almost 40 years. After carefully searching the Scriptures to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he CHANGED his view to Post-Trib (and began to publicly teach Post-Trib). His above-mentioned book promotes the Post-Trib Rapture view.
3) Jim Spillman (author, pastor, evangelist, and Bible scholar), who at one time pastored a very large church in California, had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture view for many years. After going into his prayer closet for several days, where he studied ONLY the Holy Bible in order to discern the timing of the “Rapture”, he came to the conclusion that the Holy Bible clearly teaches the Post-Trib view. He then had the COURAGE to go before his large congregation and ADMIT to them that he had been teaching them FALSE doctrine (i.e., the Pre-Trib view) for all those previous years! ((That takes a lot of GUTS!))
4) Pastor Butch Paugh (author, and host of “Call to Decision” broadcast; and a good friend of mine) had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture view for years. Yet it was Bible study that convinced him that the Pre-Trib view is FALSE doctrine. He now teaches the Post-Trib view over the “airwaves”, as well as to his local congregation. ((His excellent Internet web site is: www.calltodecision.com . Pastor Butch Paugh has several audiocassette tape sets dealing with the “rapture” issue that are available through his ministry. You can call toll-free 800-777-4403 for information, and to order those items.))
5) Pastor David Lankford (author and broadcast host) also had believed in and had taught the Pre-Trib Rapture view for many years. As the back cover of his excellent book, The Second Coming: A Second Look, states: “After weeks of fasting and prayer and diligent study of Scripture, Pastor Lankford’s long-held beliefs about The Second Coming were changed.” Pastor Lankford’s book, along with a two-audiocassette tape set on the topic of the Second Coming, can be obtained for $20 postpaid by calling phone number 704-263-1945, or by making check or money order in that amount payable to “The Voice of Evangelism” and mailing it to: The Voice of Evangelism // P.O. Box 669 // Alexis, NC 28006.
6) James Lloyd [warning] (author, publisher of two periodicals, and broadcast host of “The Apocalypse Chronicles”) also had believed in the Pre-Trib Rapture view for years. Study of the Holy Bible convinced James that the Post-Trib view was the correct one! James has written an excellent book, The Rapture Cult: Dishonesty in Dispensationalism, which deals with the Bible verses supporting the Post-Trib view, and with dishonesty on the part of a number of Pre-Trib writers! [note] His book can be obtained for $5 postpaid by making check or money order payable to “Christian Media”, and mailing it to: Christian Media // P.O. Box 448 // Jacksonville, OR 97530. Christian Media also offers a number of Dave MacPherson’s books that examine the relatively recent origins (i.e., the 1830s) of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. For information, call Christian Media at phone number: 541-899-8888, or write to the above address.
((IMPORTANT NOTE: The “Pre-Trib Rapture” is but one piece – although a critical one – of a larger “prophetic pie” that many have termed “Dispensationalism”. Dispensationalism is a theory of Bible interpretation which holds to the notion that God deals with man in distinct periods of time, or ages. According to John Nelson Darby, we are now in the ‘Church Age' which will culminate in a Pretribulation Rapture.
Here are a few other good books that REFUTE the Pre-Trib Rapture view:
((NOTE: You may have to check the Internet or visit a good library to track down some of these books.))
(1) The Rapture Book by Dr. James McKeever (Omega Publications);
(2) I WANT To Be Left Behind by Pastor Ron Poch (Available through Proclaim Liberty Ministries; $12 postpaid: To order it via credit card, please call toll-free 888-820-2126);
(3) First the Antichrist by Dr. Robert H. Gundry
And while we are talking about good books, here is an excellent book that exposes a number of unbiblical teachings in the “Left Behind” series of books (a series of books that promote the Pre-Trib Rapture view):
God’s Wrath on Left Behind: Exposing the Antichrist Agenda of the Left Behind Series by Lisa Ruby; 216-page paperback; 2002; ISBN 0-9721264-0-6; $14 postpaid (for mail orders): This book can be obtained by making a check or money order payable to “Liberty to the Captives Publications” and mailing it to: Lisa Ruby // 224 Reservoir Road // North Attleboro, MA 02760-2839. ((Please check out her outstanding Internet web site at www.libertytothecaptives.net .))
Interestingly, many famous Christian men in the past believed in and taught the Post-Trib Rapture view [i.e., that the “Church” would be going THROUGH the Tribulation period]. ((NOTE: Many folks refer to this end-time tribulation period as the “Great Tribulation”.)) The long list of these famous men includes such names as Charles H. Spurgeon, John Bunyan (author of Pilgrim’s Progress), John Calvin, Charles Finney, John Knox, Martin Luther, and George Whitefield.
Equally as interesting, NONE of these following great Christian men ever made any reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture: John Wycliffe, John Wesley, or Charles Wesley.
Equally as interesting, there seem to be NO records of the great pastors of the American Revolution (such as Jonas Clark, John Peter Gabriel Muhlenburg, James Caldwell, etc.) making ANY reference to the Pre-Trib Rapture.
Most interestingly, NONE of the following ever made mention in the Holy Bible to any Pre-Tribulation (or even Mid-Tribulation/Pre-Wrath) evacuation of Christians BEFORE the Antichrist appears: The Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, and the Apostle John! Doesn’t it seem strange that there is NOT one SINGLE verse of Scripture that states something like the following hypothetical ‘statements’?
(1) “Verily, immediately prior to the start of the seven-year period of the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(2) “Verily, seven years before the Revelation of Jesus Christ [the supposed 2nd part of His supposed two-stage 2nd Coming], the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth.”
(3) “Verily, three and one half years into the ‘Great Tribulation’, the end-time Christians will be miraculously air evacuated [i.e., “raptured”] off of Planet Earth – just prior to the beginning of God’s Wrath!”
No, there is NOT EVEN ONE SUCH BIBLE VERSE – or one Bible verse even closely resembling those statements in the Holy Bible!
Interestingly, John F. Walvoord, a big guru of the Pre-Trib Rapture movement and author of books promoting the Pre-Trib Rapture view, admitted that there was NOT ONE SINGLE Bible verse that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture!
III. THE HISTORICAL RECORD
Some of the historical record (i.e., many of the great Christian men of the past who NEVER mentioned a Pre-Trib Rapture) has already been covered in several paragraphs earlier in this newsletter. It seems that the Pre-Trib Rapture view did not really seem to catch on anywhere until the 1830s. It seems to have originated in England, and then made its way over to the USA. Until that time, the prevailing view among Christians in the USA was the Post-Trib Rapture view. Dave MacPherson, in his book, The Incredible Cover-Up, traces the origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine back to the British Isles, where we find such characters as a Scottish lassie named Margaret MacDonald, Edward Irving, and John Darby. ((Dave MacPherson does a great job of showing the origins of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine. His above-mentioned book may still be available through Christian Media. To order materials from Christian Media, see earlier information in this newsletter.))
This British “invention” of the Pre-Trib Rapture doctrine was later popularized in the USA by the Scofield Study Bible. It is not within the scope (i.e., limited space) of this newsletter to really get into the historical side of the Rapture debate. If the reader wishes to do more investigation into the history of the Pre-Trib doctrine, contact Christian Media for information on the three Dave MacPherson books that they have carried in the past. Also, there seems to have been some Jesuit involvement in at least some of these doctrines that we find within “Dispensationalism” – please read End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World by Steve Wohlberg to trace the trail of this “theological virus”. ((You can call toll-free 866-862-6334 to order this book via credit card; or, you can visit their Internet web site at www.endtimeinsights.com . Editor of ETI most highly recommends this outstanding 220-page paperback book!))
IV. THE BIBLICAL RECORD
Obviously, the Holy Bible is by far the most critical record – for God’s Holy Word MUST ALWAYS BE the standard by which we measure all things! We’ve already mentioned that Pre-Trib Rapture guru John Walvoord has stated that there is NO SINGLE Scripture verse in the Bible that by itself teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture view.
It was the daily studies of the Holy Bible (reading through the entire Bible each year) that convinced the writer of this newsletter that the Holy Bible clearly does NOT teach the Pre-Trib Rapture. Here are some of the verses of Holy Scripture that really spoke to my heart:
1) I Thessalonians 4:15-17 (:) [The Apostle Paul writes]: “For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall NOT prevent [i.e., precede] them which are asleep. (Verse 16): For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise FIRST: (Verse 17): THEN we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Do the above verses really need any explanation? Aren’t they perfectly clear? The Holy Bible is saying that those Christians still alive at our Lord’s [Second] Coming do NOT PRECEDE the “dead in Christ”, who are raised [i.e., resurrected] FIRST! And it is only THEN [i.e., after the “dead in Christ” are resurrected] that those Christians “still living” are caught up “to meet the Lord in the air”! Since the Holy Bible teaches only TWO resurrections [i.e., one for the “just” and one for the “unjust”]; and since the Bible clearly teaches that the resurrection of the just is the FIRST RESURRECTION (see Revelation 20:4-6); and since the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said four times that he would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54) – well then, how can anyone say that there is some “special group” of Christians that are getting “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the first resurrection? And just HOW MANY “LAST DAYS” are there? Is there a “LAST DAY” BEFORE the “Great Tribulation” begins? Is there a “LAST DAY” 3 and ½ years into the “Great Tribulation” just prior to God’s Wrath falling on a sinful world?
Again, it is certainly worth repeating: the Lord Jesus Christ Himself said four times that he would raise up Christians on the “LAST DAY” (see John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54)!
It might also be interesting to note here, that when a great person in Biblical times in the Middle East area approached a city, then a large entourage of folks from that city would come out to meet that great person at some distance from the city. They would all THEN turn RIGHT AROUND and escort the great person into their city. Doesn’t that sound just like what we read in I Thessalonians 4:16, 17?
Indeed, this first Bible passage listed here in Section IV (i.e., I Thessalonians 4:15-17) ought, one would think, be enough to “sink” the “Pre-Trib Rapture ship”. After all, those Christians remaining alive at the 2nd Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ CANNOT precede those Christians “which are asleep”.
2) II Thessalonians 2:1-4 (:) [The Apostle Paul writes]: “Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, (Verse 2): That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand [i.e., near in time; not distant]. (Verse 3): Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day [i.e., the day of Christ] shall not come, EXCEPT there come a falling away [Greek: apostasia] FIRST, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (Verse 4): Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”
((NOTE: Webster’s 1828 American Dictionary of the English Language defines the term “at hand” thusly: “near; either present or within reach, or not far distant”. This outstanding dictionary then lists as an example “the day of Christ is at hand” from the above Bible passage, stating that “at hand” in this context means “near in time; not distant”.))
Well, just about everybody agrees that this “man of sin – the son of perdition” is the Antichrist. This “day [of Christ]” (that Paul is talking about in verse 3) is shown in verse 1 to be the “coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”, and “our gathering together to Him”. The plain teaching of verse 3 is that NONE of those events take place until there first occurs both a “falling away” [i.e., apostasy] and the revealing of “that man of sin – the son of perdition”! And so, if one subscribes to the theory that “the Antichrist” is a FUTURE “Mr. Nasty-to-the- extreme” person who is to come on the scene in the very “end times”, then the above passage would clearly refute the idea that “the Church” is “air evacuated” prior to this “Mr. Nasty” person being revealed.
At least one Pre-Trib Rapture writer has tried to “explain away” the words “first, and” in verse 3 above, saying that they don’t really mean what they say. At least one Pre-Trib writer has tried to say that the “falling away” [Greek: apostasia] is really the “Pre-Trib Rapture” (such TWISTING of Scripture and the meaning of both Greek and English words, sadly, occurs far too often amongst Pre-Trib authors). The Greek word “apostasia” is used in such contexts as a “falling away” from, for example, the “truth” – NEVER in the context of “falling away from the earth up to heaven”. ((NOTE: Webster’s New World Dictionary defines the word “apostasy” as “an abandoning of what one believed in, as a faith, political party, principles, etc.”))
The clear meaning of verse 3 is that Christ’s return to gather up His saints cannot occur UNTIL AFTER “the Antichrist” has been revealed. Yet the Pre-Trib writers maintain that the Church is evacuated out BEFORE “the Antichrist” is revealed!
And just in case any Pre-Trib advocates are now saying, “The poor writer of this newsletter just doesn’t understand that Christ’s Second Coming is in TWO phases: the ‘Rapture’ and the ‘Revelation’, with the ‘Rapture’ coming BEFORE the tribulation, and the ‘Revelation’ coming AFTER the tribulation.” Well, let’s address such an argument now:
Let me ask the Pre-Trib’ers who advocate a “TWO-phased” Second Coming of Christ this: “Was Christ’s First Coming in TWO phases?” The answer is “No!” There are absolutely no Scripture verses to be found that support the idea of a “two-phased” Second Coming of Jesus Christ! As Jesus Christ left this earth after His resurrection, as He was ascending up to heaven, His watching disciples were told: “…This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in LIKE MANNER AS ye have seen Him go into heaven.” (See Acts 1:11) Well, did Jesus Christ have a “TWO-phased” departure from earth into heaven after His “first coming”? Did He go up part of the way, turn around and come back down, and then go back up all the way on a “SECOND” departure? NO! Jesus Christ simply ascended up (in ONE phase) into heaven! And the Bible says He is coming back in LIKE MANNER!
((IMPORTANT NOTE: I personally do not think that the Scripture passage listed in Section IV, 2 (i.e., II Thessalonians 2:1-4) is really critical to the timing of the Rapture. I listed it only because the “Pre-Trib’ers” base their “air evacuation” timelines as occurring prior to a FUTURE single “Mr. Nasty Antichrist” person appearing in the end times, holding a pig under his arm, and entering into a “rebuilt Jewish Temple” to sacrifice that pig. The fact of the matter is that Paul wrote II Thessalonians 2:1-4 to specifically warn folks NOT to allow themselves to become deceived about Christ’s second coming being “right around the corner” (i.e., imminent), or as Webster’s 1828 Dictionary puts it: “near in time; not distant”. Again, I think the key Bible passage dealing with the timing of the “rapture” is I Thessalonians 4:15-17. The “key” to understanding the timing of the “rapture” is an understanding of the “resurrection”. Editor of ETI highly recommends that everyone look up all occurrences of the word “resurrection” in a good Concordance, and then carefully read all Bible verses/passages containing that important term.))
3) John 17:15, 20 (:) ((Note: the following are “red letter” words quoted directly from the mouth of the Lord Jesus Christ in a prayer to His Heavenly Father)) (Verse 15): “I pray NOT that Thou shouldest take them [i.e., His disciples] OUT OF the world, but that Thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
…(Verse 20): Neither pray I for these [i.e., His disciples] ALONE, but for them ALSO which shall believe on Me through their word;”
The Lord Jesus Christ in verse 20 indicates that He is praying this prayer for ALL future believers as well as for His original disciples! Please note that it is the Son of God who is praying to His Father asking Him NOT to evacuate His followers OUT OF the world. And in verse 20 He adds that His prayer is ALSO for FUTURE believers!
Note the two words “keep from” in verse 15 above. These two words appear in this form only twice in the entire New Testament: here in John 17:15, and in Revelation/Apocalypse 3:10. And isn’t it interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers TRY to use Revelation/Apocalypse 3:10 to “prove” a Pre-Trib Rapture? Revelation/Apocalypse 3:10 reads: “Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will KEEP thee FROM the hour of temptation, which shall come upon ALL the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” It is also quite interesting that the Pre-Trib’ers NEVER mention the “one other” use of the Greek for “keep from” that appears in John 17:15, where Jesus Christ prays NOT to have believers removed from planet Earth! Wow! It certainly appears that John 17:15 has the Son of God praying AGAINST the Pre-Trib Rapture!
And it is certainly worth mentioning here that this is where much of the Pre-Trib argument falls apart, because Pre-Trib’ers WRONGLY ASSUME that God MUST take Christians in the “end times” OUT OF the world in order to keep them safe during the “Great Tribulation”. ((The Pre-Trib position, sadly, is built solely on assumptions, and NOT on solid Scriptural ground!)) Anyway, such an ASSUMPTION “assumes” that God is NOT able to keep Christians safe here on planet Earth DURING [i.e., in the MIDST OF] the “Great Tribulation” period. Yet the Bible is full of examples where God kept His children safe IN THE MIDST OF tribulation. In fact, that seems indeed to be a great theme of the Holy Bible, i.e., “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. Here are just a few examples:
a.) When God’s judgments fell on the Egyptians during the time of the Hebrews’ captivity in Egypt, God did NOT “air evacuate” the Hebrews OUT OF Egypt (or OFF OF planet Earth). No! While God’s judgments were falling on the Egyptians in all those areas where they resided, God preserved His children in Goshen IN THE MIDST OF those horrible judgments! ((And isn’t it most interesting that God’s “judgments and plagues” that fell on the Egyptians in the book of Exodus sure look very similar to God’s “judgments and plagues” that we see falling on the Earth’s inhabitants in the book of Revelation/Apocalypse?)) And could not this great and Almighty God, who preserved the Hebrew children IN THE MIDST OF those horrible plagues that befell the Egyptians, ALSO preserve His children ON planet Earth DURING the “Great Tribulation”?
b.) When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego (their Hebrew names, respectively, are Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah) in the book of Daniel, Chapter 3, ran afoul of King Nebuchadnezzar [i.e., the three young men disobeyed the king to his face!], did God “air evacuate” them OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? When the king had these three young Jewish men tossed into the fiery furnace, did God “air evacuate” them OUT OF the furnace in order to save them? NO! God preserved them IN THE MIDST OF the fiery furnace!
c.) When Daniel (see Chapter 6 in the book of Daniel) was tossed in the lions’ den for disobeying the king’s command, did God “air evacuate” Daniel OFF OF planet Earth in order to save him? NO! God preserved Daniel IN THE MIDST OF the lions’ den! ((Can’t we see a beautiful picture and pattern developing here of an all-powerful God who delights in delivering His children who STAND AGAINST tyranny and injustice – even when they are in horrible situations of danger, persecution, and tribulation?))
d.) What about Rahab in the book of Joshua, Chapter 6, who had lied to her government’s officials to protect the Hebrew spies? When the Hebrew soldiers destroyed the city of Jericho where Rahab resided, did God “air evacuate” Rahab and her family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! God preserved Rahab and her family IN THE MIDST OF the destruction of the city!
e.) What lesson can we learn from Noah? When God brought His judgment through a great flood upon the inhabitants of the Earth, did He “air evacuate” Noah and his family OFF OF planet Earth in order to save them? NO! Noah and his family did NOT go AIRBORNE, but rather they were SEABORNE! God preserved Noah and his family IN THE MIDST OF horrible judgment [i.e., the great flood He brought upon the whole Earth] without taking them off of the planet!
The above examples remind me of a beautiful Scripture verse:
“When thou passest THROUGH the waters, I [i.e., the Lord God Almighty] will be with thee; and THROUGH the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest THROUGH the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.” (Isaiah 43:2)
Again, preservation IN THE MIDST OF danger, persecution, and tribulation is a general theme that we can see in the Bible – and NOT “aerial evacuation” OFF OF planet Earth to avoid danger, persecution, and tribulation. Of course, we must all keep in mind that there are times when Almighty God chooses not to deliver His servants, such as Stephen, who was stoned. Additionally, after Judas Iscariot perished, all of the apostles except John were murdered!
4) Mark 13:24-27 (:) [The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “But in those days, AFTER that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, (Verse 25): And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. (Verse 26): And THEN shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (Verse 27): And THEN shall He send His angels, and shall GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of heaven.”
If the Christians who were “raptured” BEFORE the start of the “Great Tribulation” (as the Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME) were ALREADY gathered to the Lord, did they get LOST, so that the Lord has to send His angels out to gather them a SECOND time, along with those “poor saps” who got saved “after the rapture” and had to go through the “Great Tribulation”? Again, if there is only ONE “gathering together”, and we Christians who are alive at Christ’s return CANNOT PRECEDE those who are raised in the “resurrection of the just” which occurs at the END of the “Great Tribulation”, it sure looks like the above Scripture verses are placing the “gathering together” of Christians AFTER the “Great Tribulation”!
5) Matthew 13:24-30; 37-42 (:) “Another parable put He [i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: (Verse 25): But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. (Verse 26): But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. (Verse 27): So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, ‘Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? From whence then hath it tares?’ (Verse 28): He said unto them, ‘An enemy hath done this.’ The servants said unto him, ‘Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?’ (Verse 29): But he said, ‘Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. (Verse: 30) Let both grow together UNTIL THE HARVEST: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together FIRST the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.’” ((A few verses later the disciples of the Lord Jesus Christ ask Him to explain the above parable.))
“…(Verse 37): He [i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Verse 38): The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; (Verse 39): The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. (Verse 40): As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; SO shall it be in the end of this world. (Verse 41): The Son of man shall send forth His angels, and they shall gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; (Verse 42): And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.’”
This parable of the Lord Jesus Christ clearly shows that the “tares” are the “bad guys” – and they are the ones who are gathered up FIRST at the “harvest” that occurs at the end of the world! Here we have the Lord Jesus Christ preaching just the OPPOSITE of the Pre-Trib’ers, who say that the “good guys” are the ones gathered up FIRST in the alleged Pre-Trib Rapture.
6) Luke 17:34-37 (:) “I [i.e., the Lord Jesus Christ] tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. (Verse 35): Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 36): Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. (Verse 37): And they answered and said unto Him, ‘Where, Lord?’ And He said unto them, ‘Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.’” (Compare Matthew 24:28.)
Many Pre-Trib writers often use verses 34 through 36 of Luke 17 (or, Matthew 24:40, 41) as a “proof text” for the Pre-Trib Rapture! But they conveniently IGNORE Luke 17:37, where the Lord Jesus Christ tells His disciples that these people who are “taken away” have eagles gathering around their bodies! That sure sounds like those who were taken away were NOT “raptured” ((an ASSUMPTION made by Pre-Trib’ers)), but rather these individuals were taken away in judgment and KILLED. ((Why else would eagles be gathering around their bodies?)) Please remember that in Matthew 13:30, 39-42 that the Lord Jesus Christ said that the “tares” (i.e., the “bad guys”) are gathered first (Matthew 13:30) and burned! No wonder James Lloyd [warning] subtitled his one book, “Dishonesty in Dispensationalism”!
7) Luke 17:26-30 (:) [The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. (Verse 27): They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Verse 28): Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; (Verse 29): But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. (Verse 30): Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”
Here we have the Lord Jesus Christ comparing His Second Coming to time of the flood in Noah’s day, and to the time of Lot when fire rained down on Sodom. Well, in Noah’s day the flood came and “took away” the “bad guys”. Additionally, as we pointed out earlier, Noah and his family were not “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE the flood. Also, on the VERY SAME day that Lot went out of Sodom, the fire rained down on that city. Interestingly, Lot also was NOT “air evacuated” off of planet Earth BEFORE Sodom was destroyed! Thus neither Noah nor Lot can serve as “examples” of Pre-Tribulation-type deliverance. Both were preserved IN THE MIDST of judgment!
8) Matthew 24:26-33 (:) [The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “Wherefore if they shall say unto you, ‘Behold, He is in the desert’; go not forth: ‘Behold, He is in the secret chambers’; believe it not. (Verse 27): For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Verse 28): For wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (Verse 29): Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (Verse 30): And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Verse 31): And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (Verse 32): Now learn a parable of the fig tree: When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh [i.e., near]: (Verse 33): So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.” (Matthew 24:26-33)
The Lord Jesus Christ is talking about His Second Coming. He mentions such things as “after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken.” Well, how can any believers see ALL these signs if they’ve been “raptured” OUT BEFORE the “Great Tribulation”? (Pre-Trib’ers will say that those believers who see these signs must be the “Christians who get saved during the Great Tribulation” – but nowhere in Scripture does it say that! Here is yet another ASSUMPTION on the part of the Pre-Trib’ers.)
And while we’re on the subject of these many “Christians who get saved during the Great Tribulation” (according to Pre-Trib’ers), HOW is it that so many people can “get saved” during the “Great Tribulation” when the Holy Spirit and the “Church” have been taken out (according to the Pre-Trib’ers)?
9) Mark 13:20 (:) [The Lord Jesus Christ is speaking]: “And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.”
Almost all Bible scholars agree that here we have the Lord Jesus Christ talking about the “Great Tribulation” period. Well, if the “elect” (i.e., believers) have been “raptured” out BEFORE the “Great Tribulation”, then why does God have to shorten “those days” for their sakes? ((Oh, yes, the Pre-Trib’ers will say that the “elect” here must be those “who are saved during the Great Tribulation”. Again, another ASSUMPTION made by the Pre-Trib’ers for which we find absolutely no Scriptural backing!))
10) Revelation/Apocalypse 13:4-7 (:) “And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, ‘Who is like unto the beast? Who is able to make war with him?’ (Verse 5): And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. (Verse 6): And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (Verse 7): And it was given unto him to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
Most Bible prophecy scholars agree that the “him” and “he” in verses 5, 6, and 7 refer to the Antichrist. In verse 7 we see that he [the Antichrist, according to most Bible scholars] was given [power] “to make war with the SAINTS, and to overcome them”. Most Bible scholars also believe that these events are taking place DURING the “Great Tribulation”. Well, if believers have been raptured out BEFORE the “Great Tribulation”, then what “saints” is the Antichrist making war upon? Of course, the Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that these “saints” must be individuals who have been saved DURING the “Great Tribulation”, after believers had been taken out in the Pre-Trib Rapture. But the Bible does NOT say this! Again, it is yet another very dangerous ASSUMPTION, because if this assumption, and the many other assumptions the Pre-Trib’ers make (some of which have been noted in this newsletter) are WRONG, then a lot of Christians may be very surprised (and shocked) to find out that they are the ones with whom the Antichrist is making war, and that they are here on planet Earth DURING the “Great Tribulation”!
And while we are here in the Book of Revelation/Apocalypse, let’s address an argument that the Pre-Trib’ers put forth, i.e., that from Revelation 3:22 through Revelation 22:16 the word “church” does not appear, thus the “church” must have been “raptured” out, and is not on planet Earth during the “Great Tribulation”. Well, using such “logic”, the word “synagogue” is not mentioned either in those same verses, so there must not be any Jews being saved either during the “Great Tribulation” (no 144,000 Jewish “Billy Grahams” as some Pre-Trib’ers speculate). And if there are folks “getting saved” during the “Great Tribulation” (as Pre-Trib’ers have so written about), why wouldn’t they have the title “the church” as have believers of any other period since Christ’s time here on Earth? Pre-Trib “logic” defies normal logic!
11) Revelation/Apocalypse 20:4-6 (:) “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (Verse 5): But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (Verse 6): Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”
Nearly all Bible scholars agree that there has never been a time when large numbers of Christians were BEHEADED, and that this occurs during the “Great Tribulation”. Again, if the “church” has been “air evacuated” off of planet Earth, then who are these folks getting beheaded for “the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God”? Well, again, the Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME that “those being beheaded” must be people who are “saved during the Great Tribulation”. But again, the Bible does NOT state such a thing anywhere, and such ASSUMPTIONS may prove quite dangerous to those who embrace them!
12) Revelation/Apocalypse 7:9, 13 and 14 (:) (Verse 9): “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; …(Verse 13): And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they? (Verse 14): And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
Here we see very large numbers of people of ALL nations who have come out of “great tribulation”. So again we must ask this question: “HOW are large numbers of people getting saved out of “great tribulation” if the “church” and the Holy Spirit of God have been previously removed (as the Pre-Trib’ers ASSUME)?”
V. SOME VERY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS
It is here that I would like to ask some questions that Pre-Trib’ers never seem to ask themselves – because I have never seen them addressed in their writings.
Why would believers be taken off the planet in the so-called Pre-Trib Rapture so that they would not have to face the horrors of the “Great Tribulation” period, when so many other Christians have faced HORRIBLE persecution and tribulation throughout Church history? The horrors of the monstrous Inquisition come to mind. The horrible persecution of the Scottish Covenanters comes to mind. The horrible persecution of the French Huguenots comes to mind. The horrible persecution of Christians by several of the Roman emperors comes to mind. Why in blazes would there be a “special class” of Christians at the end of the age that gets spared horrible persecution?
Yes, I know the arguments of the Pre-Trib’ers:
1. “God would not allow His bride (the Church) to go through the tribulation period to get bloodied.”
2. “God has not appointed us to wrath, so we don’t have to go through the great tribulation period.”
The Pre-Trib’ers apply such good things to themselves – i.e., they won’t go through the “Great Tribulation” because they haven’t been “appointed to wrath”, and because they are the “bride of Christ”. But somehow these same Pre-Trib’ers believe that those individuals who get saved DURING the “Great Tribulation” under much more stressful and demanding conditions (and horrors) than many of these “air evacuated” Christians ever had to face, well, those “saved-during-the-Great-Tribulation” believers do NOT get to be spared from “God’s wrath”, and they are NOT evidently as much a part of “Christ’s bride” as those who are “raptured” in the end time! What is wrong with this picture? Of course, I Thessalonians 5:9 lets us know that God has not appointed ANY believers (including those who go through the “Great Tribulation”) to (His) wrath, but rather “to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”. The Pre-Trib’ers surely are getting the “Antichrist’s wrath” MIXED UP with “God’s wrath” during the “Great Tribulation”, and ASSUME they won’t be facing the “Antichrist’s wrath” during that period – you know, that nasty stuff is for those “OTHER” Christians who are saved during the “Great Tribulation” (according to the Pre-Trib’ers). Again, HOW IN BLAZES can this group of Pre-Trib’ers think that they are going to get a massive break from horrible persecution and evil during the “Great Tribulation” when MILLIONS of Christians in other eras faced the most horrible persecution, and quite likely MILLIONS of Christians will be martyred by the Antichrist in the future? I personally cannot figure out this Pre-Trib “logic” – but I do think the Pre-Trib Rapture is “illogical ESCAPISM to the maximum degree”, thrown in with a lot of ignorance of key Bible verses – along with some fantastic twisting of other Bible verses!
This tremendous quotation from Steve Wohlberg’s book, End Time DELUSIONS: The Rapture, the Antichrist, Israel, and the End of the World, is quite revealing. Steve Wohlberg states: “Could it be that the idea of escaping tribulation is really only catering to our lukewarm American tendencies? We like comfort; hate to go through trials; and can hardly bear it when our TV-dinner lifestyle is threatened. Yet historically, God’s people have gone through intense suffering. All the disciples of Jesus [Christ], except John, were brutally murdered. Thousands of early Christians were torn to shreds by wild dogs inside the Coliseum. Millions of others were horribly tortured by the Inquisition and burnt to ashes during the Dark Ages. …Believers in Russia and [Red] China have suffered terribly under communism, and yet American Christians say, ‘God wouldn’t allow us to go through the tribulation!’”
VI. BAD FRUIT
I have heard Pre-Trib’ers say that the “imminent” [i.e., “at any moment”] return of the Lord Jesus Christ makes them serve the Lord more fervently. That may be true for a number of Pre-Trib’ers – I know one pastor who is really fighting tyranny who believes in the Pre-Trib Rapture.
However, a whole bunch of Pre-Trib’ers I know [i.e., those with whom I have come into close contact] use the Pre-Trib Rapture as an excuse to sit back, and they do nothing to fight the wicked tyranny we see today. I’ve heard: “Why should I care about the evil movement towards one-world government, etc., that we see today – don’t you know, I’m going to be out of here in the ‘rapture’ BEFORE things really get bad.” I’ve heard that, and similar statements, from many Pre-Trib’ers who are just sitting around, NOT opposing evil or tyranny, waiting for the Lord Jesus Christ to “air evacuate” them out BEFORE things really get “hairy” [i.e., dangerous]. Another statement I’ve heard is this: “Don’t resist the New World Order, because, don’t you know, it’s all been prophesied.” Such thinking on the part of many Pre-Trib’ers is sickening!
VII. SUMMARY
1. As Pre-Trib scholar John Walvood says, there is NO SINGLE verse of Scripture that by itself clearly teaches the Pre-Trib Rapture.
2. Pre-Trib’ers FORCE ASSUMPTIONS on many key Bible verses – especially ASSUMING that all references to “saints” and the “elect” being persecuted and martyred during the “Great Tribulation” must refer to “those individuals saved” AFTER the Pre-Trib Rapture has occurred. ((Again, how are all these folks getting “saved” during the “Great Tribulation” if the “Church” and the “restrainer” (i.e., the Holy Spirit according to Pre-Trib’ers) have been removed?))
3. We are NOT able to find one instance in the New Testament where the Lord Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, the Apostle Peter, or the Apostle John, make a statement to the effect that “the church is going to be evacuated off the planet BEFORE the Great Tribulation period begins”. Isn’t that a bit strange if the Pre-Trib Rapture view is the correct one?
4. Despite taking a couple of texts OUT OF CONTEXT from a few early church fathers’ writings, the Pre-Trib’ers really CANNOT find any predominant, popular teaching that supports a Pre-Trib Rapture in any era of Church history before the 1830s.
5. Many great heroes of the Christian faith, such as John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Finney, John Knox, John Calvin, Martin Luther, George Whitefield, etc., were all solid Post-Trib believers!
6. The Pre-Trib Rapture view is a very big “cash cow” for Pre-Trib writers. Yet, surprisingly, there are some Pre-Trib writers who will admit that the Pre-Trib view is still a minority view. How can that be, you may ask, since so many prophecy books favor the “Pre-Trib” Rapture view? That is because so many of the major “Christian” publishing houses are, for the most part, CONTROLLED by “liberal” ‘Christians’. Post-Trib writers often find it extremely hard to get their books published by these publishing houses, because, Pre-Trib “sells”. ((Could that be because the Pre-Trib Rapture view appeals to an “escapist” mentality? It’s that “I sure don’t want to be here when the Antichrist takes over” mentality! The Pre-Trib Rapture view appeals to our “flesh” – after all, who wants to face persecution?)) Also, Dr. Robert Gundry says that most of the professors [at Bible colleges] that he knows hold to the Post-Trib Rapture view. He adds that some of the professors and students at colleges and institutions of the Pre-Trib Rapture persuasion hold the Post-Trib view, but cannot say so publicly for fear of losing their positions or not being allowed to graduate!
7. Despite the fact that the Pre-Trib’ers dislike Dave MacPherson, and call him names, yet they have NOT been able to disprove his well-documented findings that show that the Pre-Trib Rapture’s origins (as far as any widespread teaching) date back to the 1830s – and not earlier than that era! Nor have the Pre-Trib’ers been able to disprove MacPherson’s findings that the vast majority of the early church fathers believed that the church would go THROUGH the “Great Tribulation” – and lots of tribulation along the way to the “Great Tribulation”.
8. The Pre-Trib teaching seems to have originated in the British Isles in the 1830s. ((The Jesuits may have been doing a little “Dispensational creativity” in that arena many years prior to that time.)) This Pre-Trib theory was “transported” to America a little bit later, and was popularized by the Scofield Study Bible.
9. To believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture, one must IGNORE several key Bible verses that speak directly against a Pre-Trib Rapture, such as John 17:15 where the Lord Jesus Christ prays that the Father NOT take believers OUT OF the world – and I Thessalonians 4:16, 17 which says that the Christians living at the time of Christ’s return are not caught up UNTIL AFTER the “dead in Christ” are raised “FIRST”!
10. Believing in the Pre-Trib Rapture, it seems to me, goes AGAINST the prevalent theme of the Bible dealing with tribulation and persecution. This prevalent theme is “preservation IN THE MIDST OF tribulation”. ((Please recall the accounts of Daniel in the lions’ den, and of the three young Jews in the fiery furnace!))
11. To believe in the Pre-Trib Rapture, you have to ASSUME that you will be amongst a very “select group” of Christians who will not have to suffer horrible things during the “Great Tribulation”. Your “select group” excludes the MILLIONS of Christians from the past who were NOT “air evacuated” from their tribulation and suffering, and the probable MILLIONS who become “saved” during the “Great Tribulation”, and who will suffer martyrdom!
12. The Pre-Trib Rapture view, for the most part, seems to produce very BAD FRUIT – i.e., it seems to have “neutralized” many Christians living today, causing them to sit back and NOT fight evil. ((And that’s, because, don’t you know, they won’t be here when things get really bad.)) Oh – might this “doctrine” have been designed to “neutralize” Christians?
VIII. FINAL THOUGHTS
Here is something for those who preach and/or teach the Pre-Trib Rapture to think about: Your promotion of this doctrine could cause some Christians who hear it to believe that they are in no danger from the Antichrist, or from the Antichrist system. How would you feel if you met these folks in heaven – folks who had not taken appropriate means to defend themselves and their families, and had to watch as murderous thugs raped, tortured, and murdered their family members in front of their very eyes – all because they thought they wouldn’t be here?
Additionally, isn’t it the “height of arrogance” to believe that only a relatively small, special group of Christians during the end times are spared horrible persecution and tribulation?
IX. CLOSING QUOTE
Let’s close with a great quote by Corrie ten Boom, a great Christian lady:
“I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution. In China the Christians were told, ‘Don’t worry, before the tribulation comes, you will be translated – raptured.’ Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a bishop from China say, sadly, ‘We have failed. We should have made the people strong for persecution rather than telling them Jesus would come first.’
Turning to me he said, ‘You still have time. Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution, how to stand when tribulation comes – to stand and not faint.’
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation…
Since I have gone already through prison for Jesus’ sake, and since I met that bishop from China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think ‘Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation.’ Then I write it down and learn it by heart.”
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
It is here that I would like to ask some questions that Pre-Trib’ers never seem to ask themselves – because I have never seen them addressed in their writings.
Why would believers be taken off the planet in the so-called Pre-Trib Rapture so that they would not have to face the horrors of the “Great Tribulation” period, when so many other Christians have faced HORRIBLE persecution and tribulation throughout Church history?
The horrors of the monstrous Inquisition come to mind. The horrible persecution of the Scottish Covenanters comes to mind.
The horrible persecution of the French Huguenots comes to mind.
The horrible persecution of Christians by several of the Roman emperors comes to mind. Why in blazes would there be a “special class” of Christians at the end of the age that gets spared horrible persecution?
Yes, I know the arguments of the Pre-Trib’ers:
1. “God would not allow His bride (the Church) to go through the tribulation period to get bloodied.”
2. “God has not appointed us to wrath, so we don’t have to go through the great tribulation period.”
The Pre-Trib’ers apply such good things to themselves – i.e., they won’t go through the “Great Tribulation” because they haven’t been “appointed to wrath”, and because they are the “bride of Christ”.
But somehow these same Pre-Trib’ers believe that those individuals who get saved DURING the “Great Tribulation” under much more stressful and demanding conditions (and horrors) than many of these “air evacuated” Christians ever had to face, well, those “saved-during-the-Great-Tribulation” believers do NOT get to be spared from “God’s wrath”, and they are NOT evidently as much a part of “Christ’s bride” as those who are “raptured” in the end time!
What is wrong with this picture? Of course, I Thessalonians 5:9 lets us know that God has not appointed ANY believers (including those who go through the “Great Tribulation”) to (His) wrath, but rather “to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ”.
The Pre-Trib’ers surely are getting the “Antichrist’s wrath” MIXED UP with “God’s wrath” during the “Great Tribulation”, and ASSUME they won’t be facing the “Antichrist’s wrath” during that period – you know, that nasty stuff is for those “OTHER” Christians who are saved during the “Great Tribulation” (according to the Pre-Trib’ers).
Again, HOW IN BLAZES can this group of Pre-Trib’ers think that they are going to get a massive break from horrible persecution and evil during the “Great Tribulation” when MILLIONS of Christians in other eras faced the most horrible persecution, and quite likely MILLIONS of Christians will be martyred by the Antichrist in the future?
I personally cannot figure out this Pre-Trib “logic” – but I do think the Pre-Trib Rapture is “illogical ESCAPISM to the maximum degree”, thrown in with a lot of ignorance of key Bible verses – along with some fantastic twisting of other Bible verses!
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
|
posted
Brother Drew states:
quote:
Barry and I registered the same day. We all moved over from the old 711 Web Cafe, when David set this one up. It was Kindgo/Kathy who gave me the URL.
Seniority has little to do with having a solid grasp of God's Word. Betty has been a solid sister in Christ and a true blessing since she joined as Texas Grandma.
The pre-trib has a Biblical scriptural basis, as does the pre-wrath, as does the post-trib. The clear context of scripture supports the pre-trib, the removal of the Bride prior to the judgment falling upon Israel, that which is known as the time of Jacob's trouble.
Yes i think i said that in another thread and post...it does not matter about senority on this board as to what is truth or not.. i totally agree.
i see no consistant scripture that proves pre- trib, pre-wrath..Doctrine when scripture interprets scripture and all verses are taken into view.
i see plenty, plenty that shows we will be here during the tribulation. We cannot throw out the First "old" covenant..The Torah, The Prophets, etc. Everything that Paul taught was in light of the entire "WORD" of Yahweh.
The children of Israel in Goshen when the death of the first born came...if you did not have blood on your door posts thier first born died also...All the wrath poured on Egypt...The children of Israel were there...Noah..Wrath..They were there, all throughout the Bible shows examples of the Post Tribulation Catching away!
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Barry and I registered the same day. We all moved over from the old 711 Web Cafe, when David set this one up. It was Kindgo/Kathy who gave me the URL.
Seniority has little to do with having a solid grasp of God's Word. Betty has been a solid sister in Christ and a true blessing since she joined as Texas Grandma.
The pre-trib has a Biblical scriptural basis, as does the pre-wrath, as does the post-trib. The clear context of scripture supports the pre-trib, the removal of the Bride prior to the judgment falling upon Israel, that which is known as the time of Jacob's trouble.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
|
posted
Yep, Barry has been a thorn in my side for a mighty long time. Every couple of years he tries to turn the board into a Sabbath only board. Never works and is never going to work. But some people give stubborn a new name.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
Betty states:
quote:
The difference between me and you, Barry as I do not assume to guess how much study Bill has. Nor do I attempt to judge him on how much study he has done.
I have known Bill on this board for many years and I see him as an intelligent man who likes to speak his mind. Bill knows the Word of God and is not a member of a cult who is trying to add legalism to the plan of salvation.
betty
Thats well and good sister:
Evidently youve been on this board since 2008..less than 2 years.
Sister Judge righteous judgement.......\\
What we think is well and good, but in light of scripture it dont mean much..
Study the scriptures, do not just listen to what folks tell you ; search it OUT!
barry
I was wondering when you were going to throw out your board seniority as teacher qualification. You already thru out there your special relationship with David.
Your true colors are really starting to be clear to all.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
