Christian Message Board And Forums


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
my profile | directory login | register | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Board And Forums   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Biblical Obedience

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!    
Author Topic: Biblical Obedience
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
 - Biblical Obedience


“What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” (John 6:28, 29)

The focus of “religion” from the earliest days has been on obedience to God and to a system of laws, procedures, ceremonies and practices in order to achieve the approbation (approval) of God. To put it another way if a person lives in accordance to established religious doctrine and a prescribed behavioral pattern, he has an excellent chance at eternal life. Several present-day religions, even some that call themselves “Christian,” adhere to this protocol. This is often viewed as living “a good life” and/or “doing good works.” The essential concept is that if a person at the end of his life has done more “good” than “bad,” he will achieve Heaven as his eternal abode.

Unfortunately this emphasis has no foundation in Bible doctrine. The Bible does not say that a person who lives a perfect life (without sin - disobedience to God’s Law) will not go to Heaven. If you can live without sin from physical birth to physical death, you will merit eternal life. But the fact is you can’t! No one has ever been able or will ever be able to do it!

As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Romans 3:10-12)

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

The Bible is equally clear about the consequences of our sin.

For the wages of sin is [spiritual] death…. (Romans 6:23)

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man [Adam], and [spiritual] death through sin, and in this way [spiritual] death came to all men, because all sinned-(Romans 5:12)

But despite God’s Word on this matter, “religion” insists that it is within man’s power to be obedient to God and His requirements, which it says is the key to eternal bliss. The Bible says quite the opposite. Even Jesus Christ, while He sojourned upon this earth in His human body, railed against the religious and self-righteous. He called them hypocrites, snakes, blind, full of greed and open graves full of dead men’s bones. (Matthew 23:23-33) “Religion” has been and will always be the primary tool of Satan in his opposition to God’s plan for the salvation of mankind.

The Bible reveals the following, Christianity is not a religion; it is a relationship (union). It is not an organization; it is an organism. The Bible clearly teaches that when one becomes a Christian, he or she becomes a living part of the spiritual body of Christ. Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. (1 Corinthians 12:27; also see Romans 12:5; Ephesians 1:23; 4:12; Colossians 1:24; 2:19) When the New Testament refers to “the” church, it is referring to the entire body of believers - not to a structure or a localized assembly.

God’s Word is also quite clear how a person may gain entrance into the “body of Christ,” i.e., become a Christian. It is not by one’s self-righteousness or good works, because before God all “righteousness” or “good works” emanating (originating) from man is as “filthy rags.” (Isaiah 64:6) And the Bible clearly states that our salvation cannot come by doing good, i.e., performing religious ordinances, giving to a church or the poor, being kind to persons and animals, praying, or any other “good work” or “righteous act.”

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast. (Ephesians 2:8, 9)

Know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. (Titus 3:5)

It is exceedingly clear that “our righteousness” gains us nothing eternal. It is only when the “righteousness of Christ” is imputed (accredited) to us through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone that we become eternally (permanently) saved, i.e., given eternal life.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in His blood. - He did it to demonstrate His justice at the present time, so as to be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:22-26)

. . .and be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ--the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith. (Philippians 3:9)

Jesus Christ was born of a virgin and lived a perfect (sinless) life for the express purpose of going to the cross for you and me. And what happened on that cross? Jesus Christ took your sins and my sins (everyone’s sins who has ever or will ever live) and He became that sin (2 Corinthians 5:21) in order to suffer the penalty (spiritual death) for our sins in our place - as our substitute, so that we would not have to experience such a horrible fate. He not only paid for our sins by suffering spiritual death, He also died physically. He was buried, but on the third day He rose alive from the grave and ascended to the Father’s right hand in Heaven. There He remains, making intercession for us, until it is time for His return.

The point is that Jesus Christ did everything that is necessary for our salvation. All we must “do” to obtain it is to turn from (the meaning of “repentance”) our “self-righteousness” or any “works-related” system of pleasing God and simply receive (accept) by faith what Christ has already done for us. When you simply make a conscious decision to trust Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross for your own personal salvation, in that very instant you are permanently saved and become a member of the “body of Christ.”

Yet to all who received Him [Jesus Christ], to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God- (John 1:12)

For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:16-18)

The only form of obedience a person may execute for the purpose of achieving eternal life is to place his faith in Jesus Christ. But once that is done, obedience toward “good works” is required from a Christian (a “believer” or “member of the body of Christ”) in order to please God. Whereas “good works” cannot save us, the Bible does in fact say For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10) This being the case, obedience to God in the accomplishment of His “prepared good works” is a must. The question being, what type of obedience are we talking about?

Here the believer can go astray early in, and even throughout, his Christian life. Instead of exercising obedience within God’s Biblical formula, the Christian often relapses back to a “self-righteous” or “self-motivated” form of obedience. He knows that he was saved “only by faith,” but now he relies “only on himself” to live the spiritual life. This will only bring spiritual failure, no matter how much “good” he performs. There is no doubt that a Christian who self-generates good works does much good, but none of this “good” is credited to him (for future rewards - not salvation) by God.

So, what form of obedience honors God? Here is the answer: Obedience that emanates (stems) from a position of faith. Over and over the “principle of faith” is emphasized in the Bible. It was the principle that permitted healings, the principle that permitted revelation, the principle that permitted the forgiveness of sins and it is the principle that permits proper spiritual obedience, which in turn permits the accumulation of heavenly rewards.

By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear [respect] built [obedience to God’s instructions] an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith. (Hebrews 11:7)

By faith Abraham, when called [by God] to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. (Hebrews 11:8)

By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." Abraham believed that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death. (Hebrews 11:17, 18)

The book of Hebrews, and particularly the eleventh chapter, is proof-positive that the only form of obedience which pleases God and which allows the “child of God” to enter into God’s “Sabbath-rest” (victorious Christian living) and thereby accrue future heavenly rewards is by the principle of faith.

It is fact that our sin nature, which we have even as Christians, is capable of producing “human good,” i.e., what appears to all as “good works;” but not to God. It is “divine good” that alone is pleasing to God. Satan actively attempts to sidetrack Christians into “religion” or some form of “legalism;” thereby convincing them that they are good Christians because they are doing good deeds. Human good, which includes charity, altruism, philanthropy, is helpful to mankind, but has no value to God. Unless a Christian’s deeds stem from the principle of faith and the resulting motivation of the Holy Spirit (which is what produces “divine good”), he will gain no spiritual value before God.

After we are saved, Satan will always lead us toward “religion” and “legalism.” Satan is eager to encourage us in this direction, because this direction takes us away from the principle of faith, which is the basis for the control (fullness) of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the production of “divine good.” He will surely move in and convince us that it is “up to us” to keep the various laws outlined in God’s Word, and some that are not. We are quick to adopt various and sundry “convictions,” i.e., don’t do this, don’t wear that, don’t go there, don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t, no, never, ad infinitum and ad nauseam.

Then there are the “ must do” items, e.g., giving of money a certain way, attending every church service, praying in a certain manner, mimicking the antics of others we deem “spiritual,” etc. And without realizing it, we soon find we become judgmental of all others who fail to do things as we either do or don’t do them. It is then that a “major” sin dominates our life - the sin of pride, which is most egregious before God.

We drift ever so deeper into legalism, prioritizing minor issues and minimizing God’s priority issues, e.g., love of God and fellow Christians and keeping focused on Christ and bringing others to Him. We give because we are “expected” to do so. We attend church “to be seen.” We dress a certain way because of the “opinion of others.” We use phraseology such as “Amen,” “Praise the Lord,” “God willing,” etc. because we believe this will convey to others our “spirituality.” We substitute emotionalism (feeling good) for true spirituality, which is the acceptance and application to our lives of Biblical doctrine by faith alone.

The truth is that while residing in “legalism,” our entire behavior is motivated by our sin nature. We are only doing “human good,” and this gains us nothing spiritually. It’s not that many of the actions mentioned in the previous paragraphs are wrong in themselves, but God looks at the heart, i.e., your motivation. If your motivation is not derived from the Holy Spirit, which comes by way of the principle of faith, you cannot produce “divine good.” And doing only “human good” will eventually rob you of the joy of your salvation and lead you into despair and in some cases a temporary turning away from God. If this happens you won’t lose your salvation, but you’ll exist in a life of misery and under the disciplinary hand of God the Father until He either brings you back to Him or He takes you out of this world.

Why do we so easily drift toward legalism? In addition to not applying the principle of faith, it is because we are lazy in learning Bible doctrine. We spend very little time actually studying the Word of God. The principle of faith is the engine, but the Word of God is the fuel. By faith we apply what we know. Without knowing Bible doctrine, our faith has little to apply to our Christian way of life. As we confront various issues and difficulties in life, without the understanding and application of Bible doctrine (truth) we won’t know which way to turn. The Word of God has countless promises and truths that God would have us know and believe. These we must take and make our own so that we will have something concrete in which to place our faith. Faith must be anchored in Biblical doctrine. God has given us the written Word, which is able to intimately acquaint us with the Living Word even beyond that which was available to the original disciples when they walked with Him. Yet, we don’t take advantage of it.

So how can we combat Satan and his hordes? How can we be assured that we will fulfill our ambassadorship for Jesus Christ? How can we know spiritual success? How can we exercise Biblical obedience? The answer is in the principle of faith and the consumption of Bible doctrine.

With faith we start the Christian life, and it is by faith we must live the Christian life if we are to do any spiritual (divine) good, for which later we will be rewarded. This principle for living the Christian life, i.e., by faith and not by works, is seen in the following Scriptures.

So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him, rooted and built up in Him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. (Colossians 2:6, 7)

So how did you receive Christ Jesus as Lord?

Yet to all who received Him [Christ Jesus], to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become children of God - children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. (John 1:12, 13)

Do you get it? Do you understand? Do you see the light? You didn’t receive Christ through a system of works or some religious ritual. You didn’t receive Him by attending church, being baptized or confessing to some minister or priest. No! The only way you could receive Christ Jesus was to turn (Biblical repentance) from all self-effort and systems of works and turn to Christ by exercising faith alone in Him for your eternal salvation. It was by utilizing the principle of faith and nothing more.

And in order for you to “live in Him,” i.e., live the spiritual life; you need only exercise the same kind of faith that saved you. This is the only spiritual “work” that God will recognize and honor. This is the proper exercise of Biblical obedience. Just as you received by faith alone Jesus Christ alone for your personal salvation, you now need to claim by faith alone the truths and promises of God’s Word for your personal spiritual life. And one of these truths is that Jesus Christ through the personality of the Holy Spirit lives within you and will work through you to accomplish “divine good.” This is to be claimed by faith.

Do you still think it is up to you to do the work of God? Then here is the “work of God.”

Then they asked Him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” (John 6:28, 29)

Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. . .For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. (Hebrews 4:1, 2, 8-10)

The Bible teaches that there is only one way whereby we may be saved - by faith. And it teaches that there is only one way we may exercise Biblical obedience and live the spiritual life - by faith. You say that the Bible teaches that we are to be “filled” with the Holy Spirit in order to live the spiritual life. You are correct; for it is “Christ living through us” by means of the Holy Spirit that divine good is accomplished. The word “fill” or “full” as used in regards to the Holy Spirit within us only means “control.” It’s not like we have part of the Holy Spirit sometimes, and more of Him at other times. At our salvation experience the Holy Spirit indwelt and sealed us. At that moment we were “full” of (controlled by) Him. But in time and because we fail to exercise faith in the application of Bible doctrine we choose to sin and thereby “quench” (limit the control of) the Holy Spirit.

So how do you turn it around and maintain the fullness of the Holy Spirit in your life and thereby exercise Biblical obedience? The steps are simple, yet quite profound.

First, you must confess (acknowledge) any “known sins” in your life , i.e., admit to God and take responsibility for the sins you know you’ve committed. By doing so, God will automatically forgive you of your known sins and the sins of which you’re unaware or have forgotten within your life. He then will restore in you the “fullness” (control) of the Spirit of God.

If we confess our [known] sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our [known] sins and purify us from all unrighteousness [unknown and forgotten sins]. (1 John 1:9)

Second, you must accept by faith alone God’s promise that you are filled with (controlled by) the Holy Spirit and that Christ is not only able but will live through you by means of the Holy Spirit. Accept this as matter of fact. Don’t trust your feelings for you may or may not have feelings in the matter. Simply trust God’s promise - His Word. Then continue to study God’s Word, so that you will have no end of truth (Bible doctrine) in which to place your faith. Make this a daily event. Then watch as God directs your life. Don’t get ahead of Him. Don’t attempt to lead or direct Him. By faith alone allow God to do the work.

Delight yourself in the LORD and He will give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the LORD; trust in Him and He will do this: He will make your righteousness shine like the dawn, the justice of your cause like the noonday sun. (Psalms 37:4-6)

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight. (Proverbs 3:5, 6)

For we walk by faith, not by sight. (2 Corinthians 5:7)

And without faith it is impossible to please God . . .(Hebrews 11:6)

Charles F. Strong
http://www.bibleone.net/print_tbs11.html

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
On the other hand, I do think that God wants us to at least TRY to do the 10 commandsments (and its derivative 2 commandments ... "you shall love the LORD" and "love your neighbour as yourself").

But I don't think my salvation is based on how successful I am at doing it, but God does want me to try.

In the end, though, I think that God will substitute Jesus for EVERYTHING that I have ever been and done by the time I die.

God will not look at MY wisdom, God will impute Jesus's wisdom to me.

God will not look at MY righteouss, God will impute Jesus's righteousness to me.

God will not look at MY redemption, God will impute Jesus's redemption to me.

God will not look at MY sanctification, God will impute Jesus's sanctification to me.

1 Corinthians 1:30
But of Him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption.

I think that as much as I may still fret about my behavior, in the end God will entirely substitute Jesus for me. If I believe in Jesus, God will just make "Jesus stand there in my place" when my name is called and God will see that Jesus was perfect, and I get a free pass.

This is the amazing liberty that we have in Christ Jesus; I think few realize how wonderful God's free gift is to us, and still try to add something to it:

Romans 3:25
Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

1 John 2:2
And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

All that God asks of us is that we confess our sins as we go along, and God will forgive them through the blood of Jesus:

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Does that mean that we can now be worse than we were before we were saved, seeing we are "set free by the blood of Jesus"? God forbid. Nor is that likely to happen, because now we have the Holy Spirit to help us behave, as much as is in us:

Romans 12:18
If it be possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men.

And so the work that we must do is believe in Jesus whom God has sent:

John 6
28 Then said they to him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 And Jesus said to them, This is the work of God, that you believe on Him whom He has sent.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
On the other hand, I do think that God wants us to at least TRY to do the 10 commandsments (and its derivative 2 commandments ... "you shall love the LORD" and "love your neighbour as yourself").

If we truly love God and love people, then obeying His commandments (all 1050 of them) will be "not burdensome" (1 John 5:3). God the Holy Spirit lives within us and will work through us to accomplish His will. The change within us will be gradual, but sure (Philippians 1:6).

quote:
In the end, though, I think that God will substitute Jesus for EVERYTHING that I have ever been and done by the time I die.

Christ already existed with God from eternity past (John 1:1). He wanted to create people in the image of God. If God is going to substitute Jesus for EVERYTHING that you have ever been and done, then why create you at all?
Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 15 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He seeth the Father doing: for what things soever He doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner. For the Father loveth the Son, and showeth Him all things that Himself doeth: and greater works than these will He show Him, that ye may marvel."—John 5:19, 20.

"I know mine own, and mine own know me, even as the Father knoweth me and I know the Father."—John 10:15

Jn 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Jn 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

1 Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments

1 Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

2 Jn 6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Jn 15:10-12 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love. "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full. "This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Eden had written
quote:
In the end, though, I think that God will substitute Jesus for EVERYTHING that I have ever been and done by the time I die.
Carol Swenson answered
quote:

Christ already existed with God from eternity past (John 1:1). He wanted to create people in the image of God. If God is going to substitute Jesus for EVERYTHING that you have ever been and done, then why create you at all?

Regarding the bolded part, say what??? Isn't that what salvation is all about? Adam sinned, and in Adam I have sinned and in Adam I am a sinner, and so if I want eternal life, God is going to have to give it to me because I cannot earn it? "For all have fallen short of the glory of God".

When it comes time for Christians to die, God will substitute EVERYTHING that Jesus is, for me. I will not be considered at all anymore. It will be a complete exchange.

This is the great gift of God. I think that even Christians have trouble believing that God's gift is THAT great, and as a result, Christians are constantly trying to ADD something to God's great gift, as if to make ourselves "more acceptable" to God.

But God does not find ANY part of us to be acceptable. The only difference between Christians and non-Christians is that Jesus will be substituted entirely for Christians, while non-Christians have to stand before God with their own "wisdom" and with their own "righteousness" and with their own "sanctification" and all will be found to be insufficient. Therefore they will have to pay their own penalty of death for their sins, for "the wages of sin is death".

But when the names of Christians are called, Jesus will step forward in place of every Christian. Then God considers Jesus's wisdom and Jesus's righteousness and Jesus's sanctification, and declare Him acceptable on our behalf.

The ONLY thing of me that will be considered is whether I believe in Jesus as my Substitute on the cross. He has paid the penalty of death for my sins for me on the cross, and I go scott-free. Period.

This is the great gift of God. Jesus takes our place in EVERYTHING:

Romans 3:25
Whom God has set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

1 John 2:2
And He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

It's as simple as that. What a marvelous gift! "Jesus, I thank You for taking my place before God, Amen." We need to learn to stop adding stuff to it, as if what Jesus did was not enough.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 16 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
becauseHElives

How do we keep His commandments? By the strength of the Holy Spirit working in and through us.

We can add nothing to the cross of Christ for salvation.

The only form of obedience a person may execute for the purpose of achieving eternal life is to place his faith in Jesus Christ. But once that is done, obedience toward “good works” is required from a Christian (a “believer” or “member of the body of Christ”) in order to please God. Whereas “good works” cannot save us, the Bible does in fact say For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10) This being the case, obedience to God in the accomplishment of His “prepared good works” is a must.

From the moment of our redemption, the Lord put His Holy Spirit within us, and according to I Corinthians 12, He gave us certain spiritual gifts. What are gifts? They are varying capacities for ministry, varying capacities for service to God. Our eternal rewards will be determined by the level of faithfulness we have had here.

Jn 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

If we love Him, we abide in Him. If we abide in Him, we bear fruit. But we are only branches; the life of the vine is HIM.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
becauseHElives

Your mail box is full. I can't send you a private message until you clear it a little.

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87

Icon 1 posted      Profile for becauseHElives   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Carol, I am sorry...clean it up...thank you dale

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Eden
unregistered


Icon 5 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Carol Swenson wrote
quote:
Whereas “good works” cannot save us, the Bible does in fact say For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. (Ephesians 2:10) This being the case, obedience to God in the accomplishment of His “prepared good works” is a must.
Once one is saved by believing in the finished work done by Jesus, our "good works" are only good for "receiving rewards", not for losing our salvation.

love, Eden

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's right, so you better be nice to me. [Smile]
Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Lar-1
Community Member
Member # 15789

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Lar-1     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Carol, and all those who have responded to her,

Wow - what an interesting subject post (and also the individual's responses) are to be found here.

Oh, I'll just mention something real quickly here... I am actually not a *new* member to this Christian BBS. Before I was Lar-1, I was Lar2, and before that I was just Lar. (I had to change my username two times because of email problems that I have been having.) My real first name is Larry, but someone here on the BBS had already taken that name when I first arrived here.

I was very gratified by this original post and also by the thoughts of the people responding to it. Since I was a relatively young Christian, I have always been a great "fan" of God's Grace (i.e. by grace through faith - Ephesians 2:8-9), and I have not really been into legalism or religion very much at all. But I guess that I would have to say that I am somewhat of a paradoxical figure: because ever since I was a young person, I have also tended to be into my own *performance* in my ("fleshly") human life - and in my brief personal messages with Carol, I believe that she might have picked up on this fact.

Carol, thank you very much for thinking to mention Ephesians 2:10 in your post - which (in essence) mentions the pre-ordained and pre-prepared works of the Lord Jesus Christ: which were meant for Christians to "walk in." And yet, (as has already been mentioned), we are not saved by doing either our own works, or for that matter, by doing the pre-ordained, pre-prepared works of Christ. We are saved strictly by placing our faith (and trust) in the *finished work* of the Lord Jesus Christ, and with regards to our salvation, there is nothing that we can add to that in order to somehow "complete" our salvation. The works (that were spoken of in Ephesians 2:10) have been prepared (in Christ) for Christians to walk in for the purpose of receiving Heavenly rewards: that is, at the time of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ for His Church - at what has been called the "Bema seat of Christ."

There is one thing (that I feel is very important) that I have to add to what Carol and the others have shared, and that is that I am convinced that there *is* such a thing called "the faith *of* Jesus Christ" (this is the wording which is given in the King James Bible: which in this case, I am convinced is *not* simply a way of saying it in the "old English") - but I am convinced that there is a faith *of* Jesus Christ that is given (at the time of their salvation) to those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ:

"But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe." (Galatians 3:22) KJV

Virtually all of the modern-day Bible translations have translated faith *of* Jesus Christ into faith *in* Jesus Christ. But faith *in* Jesus Christ is something that is already possessed by those who believe in Jesus Christ - so (just by using common sense logic here) why would faith *in* Jesus Christ need to be given to those who already believe in Jesus Christ? Or put in another wording: why would belief in Jesus Christ need to be given to those who *already have* belief in Jesus Christ? To my mind, (and also to the mind of a well-known pastor: who used to espouse this same Biblical interpretation [as I have shared here] on Christian radio) this *proves* that the wording "faith *of* Jesus Christ" is the only sensible (and accurate) way of interpreting this particular Bible passage. Or in short, there really *is* a faith *of* Jesus Christ!

I have pondered long and hard upon what the faith *of* Jesus Christ might actually be, and I have surmised that it is: Jesus Christ's 1) faith works, 2) His faith life, and 3) His faithfulness.

But if this faith *of* Jesus Christ does refer to the 1) faith works of the Lord Jesus Christ, then how are we Christians to know just what these (pre-ordained - see again: Ephesians 2:10) faith works are? I believe that the answer to this question also lies in the Book of Galatians - in the passage:

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by [or... which is motivated by, or which is empowered by] love." (Galatians 5:6) KJV

*Note: the words included in brackets are mine - just to add a bit of clarification to the old English wording: "which worketh by".

What's going on here is that the pre-ordained, pre-created faith *of* Christ is to be "worketh" (that is, to be motivated and empowered) in us by God's *agape* love.

I often mention that the Lord Jesus gave one very basic important (two-part) commandment to Christians (which He did through the Apostle John):

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (1 John 3:23) KJV

And I also believe that God's *agape* love is not just a "warm fuzzies" kind of love: such as you might find in: "I love you just because I feel it in my emotions," or, "I *will* love you *if* you do (this or that thing)." Rather, it is a truly self-sacrificial kind of "agape" love - which could only come from (or be sourced in) God Himself! Therefore, it is to be God's love (as it is worked in us by God's Holy Spirit) that will guide us - minute by minute and day by day - in the faith works *of* the Lord Jesus Christ. And in addition, we have God's Word (the Bible) to function as a holy (and yet a very practical) guide to just exactly what we are to do, and in how we are to act in our Christian lives.

Certainly, we are to be guided in our faith (or even in the faith *of* the Lord Jesus Christ) by Biblical doctrine, but to simply be led in our faith by God's Word alone (i.e. by faith plus Biblical doctrine alone) leaves out the very important element of also being led in our faith (and/or in the Lord Jesus Christ's faith) by God's agape love: as it is faithfully worked in us by God's Holy Spirit (that is, when we are walking in the Spirit, and not walking "in the flesh").

Well, I'll stop now - in order to let someone else have a chance to write something with regards to the original post or to any of the responses.

May God bless you all and keep you in all of your ways! [Smile]

--------------------
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)

Posts: 7 | From: upstate New York (USA) | Registered: Aug 2018  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Betty Louise     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Carol,

I think a lot of Christians think at some time in their lives that works will count for salvation. My mom was a Christian lady and not only taught me God’s Word but took me to Church 3 times a week. In her last days she begin to fear that she had not done enough to be saved. My sister and I reminder her several times that salvation comes through faith Christ and not in works.
Betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 3205 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Carol Swenson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Hi Betty

I understand why people feel that way. In our daily lives, we have jobs, chores and errands, and many other things we are responsible for doing. We develop this sort of "mind-set" of behaving responsibly, or else.

Abiding in Christ as mere branches, submitting to Him as His life flows through us to produce spiritual fruit is a very different way of life.

Another thing. Sometimes the Spirit urges me toward doing something I don't want to do because it seems it will be so difficult, or unpleasant, or a waste of time. But when I obey I am always pleasantly surprised because He lifts me up, smoothens the way, and leads me straight to a productive result. Amazing grace!

Posts: 6755 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175

Icon 1 posted      Profile for Betty Louise     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amen

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Posts: 3205 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Church Webs | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

The Christian Message Board Rules - Please Read

Christian Visual Media  Bible MP3  Hear Good News  Free Facebook Covers  Jesus Videos  Jesus
Christian Website Host  Watch Videos  Chat Christian Search Engine Evangelism  Graphics  Movies