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Author Topic: Devil's gate!
bluefrog
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EDEN..I would like to suggest a thought on the subject in Psalms 11:5 The Lord trieth the righteous;....

The Lord will never put us to a test that we can't handle and I'm not too sure it is to see where we stand as much as it is to see how we depend on Him.

It's sort of like praying to Him for something you know you need or need done. You know He heard the prayer but you see no results. You depended on Him to answer. Then one day you think back on it and say to yourself,..Hey I get it I didn't really need that afterall. Or even something better turns up. Maybe God didn't test you in this case but in both cases you had your faith in His knowing what to do.

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Found in Him
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quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:

Friends....It don't get no gooder n' that ! [/QB]

[thumbsup2]

ALL KNOWING, EVER PRESENT GOD!

AMEN

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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bluefrog
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Did you read Hebrews 10:14 above ? Read it again.


the NT teaches us that sin interupts our fellowship with God. Our sins are forgiven past, present and future. That was in Heb 10:14.

John made it clear that sins will occur in the believers life, 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

If we confess our sins 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. v10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

Friends....It don't get no gooder n' that !

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bluefrog
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Hebrews 10: 12-17
12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
14 For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us; for after that He had said before.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them afrter those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more."

Probably should add:
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote to Eden
quote:
So it does appear that you would agree with me that we Christians do undergo a test of our allegiance towards Jesus??
Absolutely, the LORD tries the righteous to see where they are at, not so much for the LORD's sake (since He already knows where we're at), but so that WE can see where we are at with the Lord:

Psalm 11:5
The LORD tries the righteous, but the wicked and him that loves violence his soul hates.

Psalm 7:9
Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God tries the hearts and reins.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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eden: I suppose you mean that the devil finds unbelief in BELIEVERS. Well, probably ALL believers still have some areas of unbelief IN them.

Me: Well eden, it isn't meant to be. Else Jesus would not have spoken so often of 'faith'. And let's consider this. When Peter rebuked Jesus, Jesus was found to say, "Get thee behind me satan. For thou saverest the things of the world, not the things that be of God." Well, was Jesus really rebuking Peter? Indeed HE was, however, because Peter was experiencing unbelief, satan was able to take advantage. It was satan who was standing behind Peter, to whom the Lord said, "Get behind me." We assume that Peter did not move, huh? So it was Peter's unbelief that was an avenue for satan.

eden: It is probably ONLY JESUS who could say:

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes and has nothing in Me.

Me: Was Jesus not our mentor? Is HE our example? Is the relationship HE died to give us not the same as the one He referred to when He spoke of being 'one' with the Father, and, "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not." (Joh 10:37) But in our case is it the works of Christ. For it must needs that it be that HE come to be a mediator, a go between, between us and the Father. In other words, HE 'reconciles' us to the Father.

eden: I think only Jesus can say that, so that means that on some level we BELIEVERS in Jesus have areas of UNBELIEF in us, for else we would be able to do what Jesus did. Can you turn the water into very good wine, Michael Harrison? If so, give me your address, I'll come over.

Me: This is perfectly wicked eden. Perfectly! "Not my will, but thy will be done!" And, "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to a foolish test!" But if Jesus wants to turn water into wine, praise God, I should obey if I want to see His glory. And this believer knows that HE is able. But I am not the leader. I only follow. I have said before, we participate, not initiate. Belief does not mean that I tell God what to do. (Dummie! (Forgive me Lord))

eden: But because "we are of little faith", Jesus is our sin covering in EVERYTHING, saying (mercifully), "when I see the blood, I will pass over".

In the literal translation from the Greek, it reads "Little faiths." In other words, He was possibly referring to them as little faiths. But if He was demeaning them, and was calling them poor in faith, He was reprimanding them for not having more. I'll bet you can find scripture to back this up! Whaddya think? And is it in the character of Jesus to demean or belittle? I think HE spoke the truth in love, and was adoring of His little ones. How about you?

eden: When we accept Jesus as our Savior, then when it comes time for the wrath of God, God will simply look to Jesus ON MY BEHALF and God sees, Okay, Jesus has got it all", and therefore I PASS.

Me: I say you will be judged. I can also find scripture.

eden: It is not that I PASS because I have attained anything in any area of my life, but I will PASS only because the blood of Jesus is on me.

Michael: You are not under the blood if you are in sin. You are despising the blood.
  • Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

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oneinchrist
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Hello again Eden,
I just went back to look at your last post again and I noticed that we both used the same verse from Hebrews(Hebrews 10:38 to be specific). That was purely a coincidence because I didnt even read your whole post before I hurried up to respond. So it does appear that you would agree with me that we Christians do undergo a test of our allegiance towards Jesus?? with the devil as our adversary, of course. If you do agree, then perhaps we do have more in common than I previously thought. It just took Michael to produce this post for us to realize it then, hah? lol.
This whole subject matter here is the very reason why I am convinced that, in the early church days, when a new believer came foward to be baptized in the Name of the Lord, the baptizer would have most likely confirmed the baptizees readiness to be a committed follower/disciple of Jesus before baptizing them. Is there anyone who thinks that God gives the Holy Ghost to anyone who is not committed to doing the will of God, ready and determined to obey Jesus?

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him."

With love in Christ, Daniel

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oneinchrist
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Good Morning Eden,
My friend in the Lord. I do have some questions for you.
Do you believe that the test of our faith is only a test of our believing in Jesus as saviour?

Do you not also believe that the test of our faith is a test of our allegiance towards Jesus, as our God?

If someone falls away, do you believe it is only because they no longer believe that Jesus is saviour?

Do you not believe it possible that someone can fall away in failing the test of allegiance to Jesus because of their love for the pleasures of this world. The stony ground hearer believed for a while, but when temptation came fell away.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him."

With love in Christ, Daniel

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Thunderz7
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1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

This speaks of the type of attacks the Body of Christ can expect in these last days;
quite a differenc in those who depart from faith compared to those who believe and KNOW the TRUTH.

We need to KNOW the truth;
we also have need to be aware of the tactics of the adversary.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

The truth will not make you free unless you know it!

T7

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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote
quote:
The devil works through unbelief when and where he finds it, wherein he can stir up anger against the truth!
I suppose you mean that the devil finds unbelief in BELIEVERS. Well, probably ALL believers still have some areas of unbelief IN them.

It is probably ONLY JESUS who could say:

John 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world comes and has nothing in Me.

I think only Jesus can say that, so that means that on some level we BELIEVERS in Jesus have areas of UNBELIEF in us, for else we would be able to do what Jesus did. Can you turn the water into very good wine, Michael Harrison? If so, give me your address, I'll come over.

But because "we are of little faith", Jesus is our sin covering in EVERYTHING, saying (mercifully), "when I see the blood, I will pass over".

When we accept Jesus as our Savior, then when it comes time for the wrath of God, God will simply look to Jesus ON MY BEHALF and God sees, Okay, Jesus has got it all", and therefore I PASS.

It is not that I PASS because I have attained anything in any area of my life, but I will PASS only because the blood of Jesus is on me.

To repeat what you said, Michael Harrison
quote:
The devil works through unbelief when and where he finds it, wherein he can stir up anger against the truth!
The devil is not very worried about unbelievers, but the devil HATES believers and the devil WILL seek to draw people back into the devil's sphere of influence, if we give him half the chance ...

And it is clear from the parable of the sower that there are a number of things in society which will cause some believers to DRAW BACK into the devil's world:

Hebrews 10:38
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draws back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but we are of them who believe to the saving of the soul.

Thank God, so far I have not drawn back; in fact, I'm hopefully far enough ahead now that the way back is a rather long one.

love, Eden

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Michael Harrison
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That was a neat picture wildb. I like gears!
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Found in Him
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[Eek!]

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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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bluefrog
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FOUND IN HIM...Surely you have watched the Andy Griffith Show with his side-kick Barny. Barny would say "he's a nut!".
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Found in Him
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ya know,

Sometimes I feel like I am talking to a brick wall!

God's word is not at all hard to understand.

Why is it that some folks think that they have the "deeper meaning" and are more informed than the rest of us mere poor souls?

sad, sad situation.

Grace to us!

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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bluefrog
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MICHAEL...Bite me !
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Michael Harrison
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[happyhappy] You do make me giggle bluefrog. Well. the purpose is for one to get it. But if that purpose is not realzed, to get one to ponder is a good followup:

quote:
You told Found in Him that saying "the truth sets us free" was a mere intimating quoat but in name only. You said that the believer has not experienced the power of it. So, then what is the purpose of it if the believer is unable or not capable of experiencing the power of it?

The whole premise of what I am telling you is that the beliver can experience the power of it. The holdup is that the believer thinks he already is. But think of it like this, if one was looking to escape the dinosaurs, and he followed someone into a tunnel, but the one he followed went on, while the one who followed was content just to be safe from the dinosaurs, wouldn't it be sad if the one who found the tunnel, and entered, carried on till he found "The Lost World," somewhere deeper in? But the one who is 'content' just to escape the dinosaur is not willing. FWIW!

quote:
But that is not what she asked you.

But did Jesus answer directly when the Pharisees queried him? And was there a reason why HE answered the way HE did?

quote:
Is there a difference between a Christian and a victorious Christian? Is that all there is?

Yes. One is in defeat. The other 'communes' with his maker. One has days where the clouds hide His face. In the other, His face is not hid even on a rainy day. Which would you rather be like?

In one case one abides in a kind of darkness. It is not the same darkness as that of the sinner. However it is a conditon somewhat removed from the grace of God. It is a condition of doubt, which is a painful condition.

quote:
Oh, is that a fact? What ceremony is so unworthy may I ask? Communion?

Communion is only symbolic of 'Communion'. It is a replacement ceremony put on for the witness to other men. It does not bring one closer to God. It is however a wonderful joy to share with other saints. But let it not be said that it accomplishes what only relationship will.

quote:
He died to give us that. Give us what, the realization?

God wants us to experience all that HE has for us, and not to be content with less. How about it bluefrog? Can you dispute that?

So [happyhappy] [Bible]

"Seek, and ye shall find. Knock, and it shall be opened. Ask and ye shall receive." Or sit around believing yourself to have experienced the fullness of His blessing, while His heart is sadened....




God love ya.

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bluefrog
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MICHAEL...Have you actually thought this out?

Subject: Devil's gate.
Opening statement: The devil works through unbelief when and where he finds it, wherein he can stir up anger against truth!

Found in Him responded: The truth can set you free, right ?

Your comments were:
The truth does not set us free if we abide in unbelief. Instead, we are bound. But that is not what she asked you.

You said twice..There are Christians in name only. And, you said twice...There are true Christians victorious in name only. Is there a difference between a Christian and a victorious Christian? Is that all there is?

You said..religious practices are not truth but ceremony. Oh, is that a fact? What ceremony is so unworthy may I ask? Communion?

You told Found in Him that saying "the truth sets us free" was a mere intimating quoat but in mane only. You said that the believer has not experienced the power of it. So, then what is the purpose of it if the believer is unable or not capable of experiencing the power of it?

You said that the believers don't live with the power of the resurrection, but makes a rosy assesment without realization. This is a case where one can only speak for themselves isn't it?
Are you suggesting that Christians don't know why Christ died on the cross ? I guess not, because you followed up saying, It is not Gods plan that we be without a realization. He died to give us that. Give us what, the realization?

You said Don't get perky just to uplift Him.
I think I will not comment on this one.

Religious ceremonies and statements only justify ones self. Now, isn't that interesting.

Michael, when was the last time you had a vacation ?

God love ya.

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Found in Him
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Let's lift up Jesus Michael ok?

Jesus is able and will lead and guide us into all truth.

I don't want to debate with you, I want your testimony of what the Lord had done in your life. Ive asked nicely over and over today.

Let's lift Him high in all we say and do.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Michael Harrison
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So it would be phoney to be 'perky' just to supposedly 'uplift' Him, when HE is looking for us to be in communion with Him. For HE is uplifted when we are in communion, and not when we are deceived by ceremony. And he is calling HIS people to a place of worship, but as in the Old Testament, people are stiffnecked, and turn their ast to Him, rather than their face, but make religious statements to justify themselves.
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Michael Harrison
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Perhaps you need to read what was posted Found In Him. It reads, "The devil works through unbelief when and where he finds it." You said, "But the truth sets us free right?" The truth does not set us free if we abide in unbelief. Instead we are bound.

I have often asked, how far can one repent. The answer is 'all the way'. The question again is, repent from what. The answer is, unbelief! Now, how can you state that the "Truth sets us free?" If a person abides in unbelief, he is not set free. Does that make any sense? The truth sets us free, however, if we abide not in the truth, it does not set us free.

Jesus said "Take heed that the light that is in thee be not darkness." By that HE meant that the religion, or religious practices in you are not the truth, but ceremony. Ceremony saves no one. Ceremony enlightens no one. It is simply a "walking before men," thing. And the unrepentant abide, very often, in ceremonial servitude. (What a statement Lord! [happyhappy] )

I have also often said that there a lot of people who are Christian in name only. Even still, there are true Christians who are victorious in name only. It isn't their true experience. Yet they can point to the word and state it with clarity, as you just have, intimating the truth. But it tends to be in name only. The believer has not experienced the power of it. The believer does not experience the power of His resurrection hour by hour, and minute by minute. The believer makes a rosy 'assessment' trying to be upbeat about his/her redemption, but without the realization. And it is not God's plan that we be without the realization. HE died to give us that.

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Found in Him
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But the truth sets us free right?

Let's give God glory on this site.

--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24

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Michael Harrison
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The devil works through unbelief when and where he finds it, wherein he can stir up anger against the truth!
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