|
Author
|
Topic: I want to minister Jesus!
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
- Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
If a man is compelled to do the deeds of the law, or is considered perhaps, legalistic, is he not an unbeliever? For he makes himself to 'perform' things which are the fruit of 'Unbelief'!!! Here is a companion verse:
- Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Could this guy have potentially been an 'unbeliever'?
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Would this verse have been included in the Bible if there was no possibility of coming short in faith (and therefore sanctification, etc.)?
- 2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
So the unyielded is an unbeliever, but not as one who is unregenerated, i.e. lost. But as being short of the goal of Christ their Life, these abide in unbelief still.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
quote:
That's an oxymoron. There is no such thing as unbelievers who are saved. Cute phraseology, but meaningless, and useless.
quote:
eden famously said
To say that, are you not an unbeliever?
- Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
Who is he that eateth and his conscience is burned? For "he eateth not of faith. He doubteth!" Therefore he is an unbeliever, and he suffers as one having his conscience burdened.
Let's keep this post short. Or do you want more examples?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
hi, bluefrog, hope your day is going well. You wrote quote:
This goes on on this board all the time. A subject is offered, a conversation is started, then off we go in tangents down other roads and don't even really read what is or has been said.
Yes, that's probably the nature of posting...someone says something within the Topic that leads to discussions on other topics. But that's okay; if it had not been for the FIRST Topic starter, we could not have gone to other places too. In the long run, it is all instructional, for good, or for bad, or both.
have fun, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison wrote quote:
The unbelievers refuse to surrender their will (and I am not talking about the unsaved).
That's an oxymoron. There is no such thing as unbelievers who are saved. Cute phraseology, but meaningless, and useless.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
|
posted
I think you all are my kinda folks... I think I'm gonna like it here ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Glory belongs to Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7432
|
posted
Bible Lawyers! with bad hangovers type likeness. ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif) What a way to esteem your brothers. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Found in Him wrote;
Knowledge and understanding is something we have obtained from the Lord or the lack of it is like a resounding gong. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Found in Him also wrote;
Doubtful disputations can try the patience. I'd rather try to convince a goat that it's not a sheep. ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
I think you have been out of your playpen for a while. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) God's Word is always right "Stand on It".
--------------------
If you ever get so hungry for God that you are in pursuit of Him, He will do things for you that He won't do for anybody else.
Posts: 112 | From: USA | Registered: Oct 2008
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
|
posted
Bible Lawyers-- that's funny!
Doubtful Disputations can try the patience. I'd rather try to convince a goat that it's not a sheep.
--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
Seems it would be nice to have you around here.
Well, I haven't read any notices "Don't try this at home". I have had to go cool off a couple of times from here. Not much fun is being had here either. It's mostly what seems like a bunch of bible lawyers with bad hangovers type likeness.
Ewwww, am I gonna get it for that one. BIT
IP: Logged |
|
|
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
|
posted
it's tough being a big boy eh?
well, knowledge and understanding is either something we have obtained from The Lord or-- the lack of it is like a resounding gong.
just breathe
--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
FOUND IN HIM...Unfortunately, the tough love thang is well used here. I don't like it but that doesn't make it go away.
If you don't like it you might be better off in your play pen. lol
This is about as close to a debate board as one can get without calling it that in the title.
Satan gets his hand in where doubt is possible then encouraged by name calling n' stuff.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
|
posted
That's fine-- Don't apologize to me. I was just getting ready to say "sorry, guess I'll just head back to my playpen and leave all this tough love to the big boys"
--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
FOUND IN HIM...Thanks for the input.
Welcome to the board. There are two other ladies here also....Betty Louise and Yahsway.
Yes Michael and I are bumpin heads right now. I think I have lost out in my effort to be friendly. I'm just a poor lost soul.
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
MICHAEL..thanks for sending obama on his way.
So, it is clear that I didn't make myself clear when I said Ministering just by being a believer was not believeable. One Boo for me.
Let me in my flesh body try again. You spoke of a situation where you didn't speak. You said you did not speak because you were shy. The subject of ministering was on the menu. I spoke of the meaning of Ministering, now being ministering to one another. I went on to say that if you want to minister to a human being, thinking of your choking lady, you prayed but didnt speak to her. You didn't tell her you had prayed, so you didn't minister to the Lord. You asked him to help and He did. Now, if you call that ministering to the Lord and if it is, then I am wrong.
This goes on on this board all the time. A subject is offered, a conversation is started, then off we go in tangents down other roads and don't even really read what is or has been said.
It gets confusing.
One other thing. Who has the right on here to decide if I am a Christian or not ?
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Found, do you not know what 'tough' love is. Paul had it. If I humor someone, I do him (her) no favor. By so doing I encourage the one to continue in blindness. Paul did not. HE told it like it is. But even still, the brothers and sisters made all sorts of things out of what he was saying, except what he meant. And the hour is come not to play around. I will explain it to you all that you want, little one. Let HIS Spirit assure you that I speak in love.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
So, my dearest brother bluefrog:
quote:
Does that mean you are saying there are saved unbelievers ?
In a sense! For what I am saying is that you have not 'fully' believed. You have believed in salvation, but not fully unto 'revelation'. In other words, and it is hard to keep this short, but brothers and sisters get saved, and spend their entire life wandering in the wilderness (where they do see some of the miracle working of God), and never fully realize the revelation of "Christ their Life." And they spend their time doing things 'for' Him, thinking they are accomplishing something, rather than doing something 'by' Him. There is a difference.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Found in Him
Advanced Member
Member # 7596
|
posted
um, what does this scripture mean?
By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
--------------------
~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
Posts: 1503 | Registered: Jan 2009
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
And lest ye be indignant, here is some scripture for you to consider:
2Co 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:
2Co 10:2 But I beseech you, that I may not [have to] be bold when I am present, with that confidence, wherewith I think [need] to be bold against some, who [unfortunately] think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. [and are just other men]
2Co 10:3 For though we walk [live in this body] in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Co 10:5 Casting down [your] imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God [as He expects], and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
2Co 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
2Co 10:7 ***Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.
2Co 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for [your] edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:
2Co 10:9 That I may not seem as if I would terrify you by letters.
2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his SPEECH contemptible. [he was wimpish]
2Co 10:11 Let such an one think this, that, such as we are in word by letters when we are absent, such will we be also in deed when we are present. [for God is powerful in us]
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
And neither shall I be so weak if I ever have the joy of the Lord to encounter yours.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Begging your pardon mister boastful (in your own flesh). As I related above, His strength is perfected in weakness. Paul said, "When I am weak, then I am strong." And "He hath chosen the base things, to confound the wise," oh wise one (pardon my sarcasm )
I am glad for those who have the gift of speaking. I do speak, however, not like a lot of people, and not as often. But even at that, Jesus being present in you will speak without your saying a word. That is the point of the above, which you missed. For Jesus did 'do' something. I didn't have to. And I would rather behold His face, that in doing so, others could touch the hem of His garment by my being on the mountain top with Him. And believe me, they do.
So, though you boast in the flesh, you are missing the power by not being one with the one who is able. And like others, you trust in your ability. That is not good. You have a ways to go before you learn what it means to be broken.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
MICHAEL...OK, I'm on a Tacky Roll now.
Your comment about your being filled with the Spirit ministering to the Lord is not very believeable. My friend, you can love the Lord til your blue in the face and shiver or tingle, or whatever but if you don't speak, nothin is gonna happen. Rememmber the code ? Believing comes by speaking. Oh well, I made that up but the scripture says to make things happen you have gotta use your mouth and speak. That don't mean you say "Nice Day" and expect that to work either. He says when you pray, pray out loud.
If you are shy, pray for boldness...and do it out loud. rivit
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
MICHAEL...I know it is tacky of me, but the new icon you have....I have seen enough of that face to last me a life time. Thank You.
IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
MICHAEL.. Your final comment threw me again.
"the unbelievers refuse to surrender their will (and I'm not talking about the unsaved).
Does that mean you are saying there are saved unbelievers ?
Anyway, thanks for sharing your story about the breathing problems. That is a terrifying experience. I had it once when I came off the operating table. Almost died. BP 287/210.
Your not telling the lady that you prayed for is nothing to beat yourself up about. You wanted her fixed and most likely the Lord did the fixin.
The result of telling her could have backfired also. Perhaps the Spirit wanted to approach her about it and put the thought in you to sit tight.
In either case I see no harm in what you did, but I see good. You prayed.
As for ministering to Jesus, ministering before Jesus was a term used for a person who provided significant personal service to some one of high rank. Priests ministered to the Lord at the tabernacle or temple.
Since the new covenent with Jesus as savior, the ministering became religious in use, such as giving to cover material or spiritual needs of others. Ministry is also a calling of all Christians, not just the ordained. We are called to serve man, not to be served.
Now, ministry is two-fold: to the Lord and to our fellow believers.
Anyway again...I suppose that there are Christians who feel they are required to work for God in all sorts of ways. God told us that he has plans for us to labor at when we become a member of the family. Maybe they are given that drive, I don't know, but they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't in love for Him.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
The operative word is "IS," as in "I AM." That leaves no room for 'if' except for the will of man to believe, or not.
"Work out you 'your' salvation with fear and trembling," according as you will. Not to put myself on the level with Paul, but I will remind you, their opinion of Paul was that he thought he was right, and they were wrong. But he was right. He spoks 'by' the Holy Spirit and the authority that is God. That is why he wrote all the epistles, that they who were 'willing', and humble, would be instructed. But people now do not realize that they are like the people 'then'. They see themeselves as being different. And then Peter said that there was a 'lot' of troublesome, and rebellious people in the ranks who would refuse "sound council."
The unbelievers refuse to surrender their will (and I am not talking about the unsaved). That is what leads to our country being in the condition that it is in.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison also wrote quote:
Now scripture is FULL of the heart of God, but you are reading it backwards.
Are you now psychic that you also know that some Christians are "reading it backwards" (and presumably YOU are reading it "forwards")?
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Michael Harrison, the operative word in your Topic is IF.
love, Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Now scripture is FULL of the heart of God, but ye are reading it backwards.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
Yall so sweeet! Bluefrog: When I was a kid in school, I was afraid to get up and go to the back of the bus to use the bathroom because everyone would know what I was doing. I had an affliction of shyness (which is painful by the way, if you know of someone that way).
Some years ago I was sitting in a cafeteria when a woman started choking.
Now let me diverge momentarily. A few weeks ago I choked. It was the real thing. I had of course had on many occasions, a coughing fit because something tried to go down my windpipe. But this time something made it. I was eating something really tangy. Well, the first thing that happened was that I coughed. My throat was sensitive and I coughed unexpectedly. As I tried to recover my breath for another cough, something lodged deeper in. My throat shut down like being punched in the sternum. Now, I had just coughed the air out of my lungs and could not inhale. Do you know what panic is? In the moment of peril, when you have much to assess about what to do, and what course events are about to take, it threatens to set in.
Anyway, I forced a cough with what I had left, and was relieved to discover that I could again breath in. What a reprieve! And as I sat down, I coughed again, mildly, and I felt whatever was offending, lift from my lower throat, to the back of my tongue. So the short of it is that I know what it is to choke. And if something is lodged there, your throat will not allow you the wind to expel it, just to give you something to think about, for I have experienced it.
Now, back to the restaurant. The lady was choking. Humanly, one feels the same panic when they witness something which they can do nothing about. I had a deep concerned for this lady, but being stupidly shy, I wasn't one to jump up and go administer the Heimlich maneuver, but I did pray, perhaps as a precursor to arising and attending to the lady. As I did, the lady gasped in surprise. Then she started shouting, "It's gone! I can't believe it: it just disappeared! It just disappeared." She was exceedingly astonished. She wouldn't quit. She carried on, marking that it was no small matter.
Well, most anyone else would have not failed the second time, and would have at least gotten up to tell the lady that he had prayed upon recognizing her distress, and that Jesus met her miraculosly. In that way HE would have been glorified. But being shy, I just thanked and praised the Lord (it wasn't lost on me what had happened) because I knew what had taken place. And I figured that she would figure it out.
And while I am at it, even Paul prayed for 'boldness' that he should make known the gospel. Add to that FWIWorth, that Moses was stricken with the same infirmity, and trembled at the thought of approaching Pharaoh and refused, basically, to go. That is why he got a sidekick to speak for Him. Add to that Paul said, "I will glory in my infirmities."
The bigger point here that I am trying to make, is that preparedness doesn't happen in slumber. And people think they are prepared. And when somebody speaks to it, seeing that they are not, they still don't get it, and want to argue like Job's detractors. We will note that the Lord didn't condone the speech or the wisdom of Job's detractors. But the message you are being given is that there is no humility in the brashness of supposing that one is Godly and proper because he piously thinks he is 'willing' to labor on God's behalf, and therefore teach others to do so. Again I will remind you, Paul said, "I will glory in my infirmities." And the reason is that GOD has to do the doing. "For when I am weak, then I am strong." For do you suppose that I knew the heart of God towards that lady that day when I prayed? Or do you think I thought to myself that being such a fine Christian man, God would listen to me and perform because I would step out and 'do' something? And I did nothing: I prayed. But this painfully shy, liability of an individual, touched the heart of God that day. I had no bragging rights because I did nothing, but God used me. I can take no glory as though I 'did the right thing'. Heck, I messed up. But it is not Michael who matters. It is God.
So when I tell you that the life of Christ starts where you end, understand what Paul is saying that you are supposed to do what you are supposed to do, and not what you think you are supposed to do. Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
oneinchrist
Advanced Member
Member # 6532
|
posted
Hi Michael,
I would like to adress your "Its not what we do for Him, its what He does through us." My objective will be to demonstate that we should not confuse "what we do for Him" with the "faith response" that God is looking for in each of us.
First of all, our faith is the measure of personal conviction that we have in the Word of God. A lack of committment to "obedience" could easily reflect a lack of conviction in Gods word.
So what is this "obedience" that God desires to see in us?..........yes, humbly submitting our lives under the loving authority of the Word and permitting the Holy Spirit to help transform us into Christ-likeness. Please note that I used the words "help transform". Jesus calls the Holy Spirit our "helper". A "helper" does not "do it all", for it purposely leaves room for us to reciprocate towards God in faith......for ex: "Here is the key My child, put on courage, believing in the reward."
I found it interesting that in the parable of the sower that the seed that fell on good ground was seed that fell upon a good and noble heart.........and noble means courage. In contrast, the stony ground would be a half-hearted cowardly heart that is not all that impressed by the love of God.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
|
posted
Zech.11
[15] And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.
[16] For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
[17] Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
bluefrog
unregistered
|
posted
MICHAEL...Your on a roll today aren't ya ?
I would suggest some zeal thrown in with your wish for real.
If ya depend on having followed all the commandments before you minister Jesus it may just not happen. Well, I'm speaking for myself.
Ministering is a true challange and there are way too many unfamiliar words of wisdom thrown in the truck of an unbeliever. Hardest thang to do is Keep it Simple.
IP: Logged |
|
|
Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
|
posted
I want to minister Jesus. And when people are able to touch or perceive Jesus because I am 'close enough' to Him in understanding, and presence, that HE spills over, then they will reach out to Him. It needs no explaining. He will 'draw' them if I have drawn nigh to Him. He will 'bear witness' of Himself through me if I have obeyed the commandment of realizing Him in first place, according to His instruction. In other words, if I have done what is the right thing first, rather than fool myself, He will fill me. Then HE will be real, not contrived, or manufactured as though my good intentions are supposed to work for Him that which what only HE accomplishes, like to touch the spirit of someone with His realness, to widen someone's eyes with HIS genuineness. But unfortunately, in the world of supposed 'witness' for Him, zeal, pushes aside real. Real is needed where zeal has impeded. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
