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Topic: ALWAYS get back UP!
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
Now:
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [This is the starting point of sanctification]
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [For who among you has done that?]
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law [the imperfection of trying, or doing], but that which is through the faith of Christ, [the gift] the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That [therefore] I may know him, and the POWER of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, [by] being made conformable unto his death; [that I may know HIS life!]
Php 3:11 If by any means I might [so that I may] attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect [or translated already, as in 'finished']: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [It is a moment by moment life lived]
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: [I still could slip up] but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as [who actually understand being] perfect,[as Jesus has spoken of] be thus minded: [as I am describing] and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded [and if you have a blind spot concerning anything], God shall reveal even this unto you. Amen!
I do not remove free will from the individual when I express the relationship God is seeking. I will assert that you do not understand how free will figures in, who do dissent. And we had a discussion a day or two ago, I cannot find it now (oh, I thought I lost it. There it is!), but in it you mentioned that Paul said, "I have not attained." My return was that what Paul was meaning by saying that he had not attained resurrection from the dead, was that he "still had a free will." And that is what he meant when he said that he had not been perfected. He was not, by so saying however, that his faith was not perfect, only that he still had a free will that could still resist God. But he was not implying that he 'practiced' doing so, as many report [read] that he is. Else it would contradict all of his other epistles en toto.
But people see what they want to see when they read, and avoid what they don't understand. This is because they will not humble themselves to know.
...."if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." He means that he seeks to apprehend the resurrection of the dead, wherein he is solidly and irreversably redeemed, never able to fall again. In other words, he seeks to make it to the end, where he dies, and is risen.
The unbelievers refuse to surrender their will (and I am not talking about the unsaved).
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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becauseHElives wrote quote:
Michael, Yahshua bought my life, body,soul, and spirit but He can not make me do one thing....I must yield, I must choice to do that which the Holy Spirit leads. (He doesn't do it for me)
I agree 100% with you, becauseHElives. We must yield to what the Holy Spirit says we should do next as the Holy Spirit guides our steps. At ANY time we can STILL implement our own idea instead of the Holy Spirit's idea if we think we "still know better".
To repeat what you said, quote:
....I must yield, I must choose to do that which the Holy Spirit leads. (He doesn't do it for me)
Exactemundo.
Eden
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Michael Harrison
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posted
I lived in Tyler Texas briefly. I spent a little time with the missionaries at Duncanville Texas, at the "School of Linguistics." I went to Houston and boarded at a church which was kinda communal, but they were not the kind of Christians that, well..... They were peculiar, to be sure.
And He will make decisions for you - if you are willing. That is your calling. In fact, it is called unconditonal surrender. It is our required obedience. It is called "Thy will be done on earth, as in Heaven."
More later.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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bluefrog
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MICHAEL...You North Carolina boys have always been hard headed. You need to move to Texas for a while and get fixed. lol
Michael, I don't think I would call what you are saying witchcraft by any means but it is hard to understand where you are comin from sometimes. It seems that you agree that we all have freedom of choice between right and wrong according to the bible. Seems to me that you choose to make it an act of labor for someone but I'm not sure who. We are given the right to choose between right and wrong but Jesus or the Spirit will not make the choice and do it for us. You see no gray area and we don't either, so it's good we got that straightened out, huh ?
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
Michael,yours is a gospel of witch craft when you remove the free will of the individual from message of the gospel ....
I do not remove free will from the individual. I will assert that you do not understand how free will figures in. And we had a discussion a day or two ago, I cannot find it now (oh, I thought I lost it), but in it you mentioned that Paul said, "I have not attained." My return was that what Paul was meaning by saying that he had not attained resurrection from the dead, was that he "still had a free will." And that is what he meant when he said that he had not been perfected. He was not, by so saying however, that his faith was not perfect, only that he still had a free will that could still resist God. But he was not implying that he 'practiced' doing so. Else it would contradict all of his other epistles en toto. (In fact I think you called it 'twisted' ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) )
In HIM "we move, and breath, and have our being." I am moved by His Spirit within. My will serves Him by yielding 'to HE who is within'. My power to serve HIM comes from grace, by His Spirit within. I do not serve HIM like a soldier obeys a commanding officer. I serve Him like a finger on His hand.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
quote:
Michael, Yahshua bought my life, body,soul, and spirit but He can not make me do one thing....I must yield, I must choice to do that which the Holy Spirit leads. (He doesn't do it for me)
quote:
becausehelives
Then ye are not dead. And yours is not a life in Christ, with God. You are living extraneously.
It is clear that you understand that you are bought with a price, but that you view this as one one would picture slaves being sold in a market. In Old Testament days (at least the Hollywood version I saw) people were auctioned off as they stood on an auction block for viewing. Then when someone purchased them, they got a seal of some kind, indicating to whom they 'belonged'. But they were 'forced' servants. In other words, their service was purchased, and they were begrudging in their servitude.
And that is almost the position of the believer who has recognized His life with Christ. But Jesus said that he is more than a servant. He is a brother, a friend. More than that, they are one. For Jesus said, "If ye abide 'in' Me, and I abide 'in' you...." That can't happen in the world. Two can be one in cooperation, but not in the flesh.
But Jesus is closer than that. Jesus says that if ye are dead, (these are Paul's words) yours is a life hid 'in' Christ, with God. Because Jesus puts HIS Spirit into man, and together they operate as one. Then does a man know what it is to be led of the Spirit. Then does he know what it means to be a son. Then does he 'commune' with God, not as being separate, and obeying as an external being, purchased off of a podium. Jesus is one with us, as the Father was with Him when HE was with us here on earth.
Else HE doesn't know you.
I have said it over and over, if you depend on what you 'do' for God, you may find yourself on the wrong side of judgment. But what you do 'by' God, will wax eternal. For it is by HIS Spirit, not our flesh.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Michael,
in every situation you have a choice, and which ever choice you make, you have yielded to Yahweh or Satan.....there is no neutral ground in the warfare for man's soul.
Please explain the GRAY ZONE of Mental Illness.
or the GRAY ZONE of COMPENSATION in combat/casualty control kills for the trained solder.
I say there are some case's where surrendering to ones conscience of religion is not right for the health and safety of the Ships total mission .
Ecclesiastes 3
[1] To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
[2] A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
[3] A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
[4] A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
[5] A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
[6] A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
[7] A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
[8] A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
[17] I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Michael, Yahshua bought my life, body,soul, and spirit but He can not make me do one thing....I must yield, I must choice to do that which the Holy Spirit leads. (He doesn't do it for me)
pray, read the word, visit the sick, feed the hungry, visit those in prison, help the widow and the orphan, ect.....
Michael,yours is a gospel of witch craft when you remove the free will of the individual from message of the gospel ....
in every situation you have a choice, and which ever choice you make, you have yielded to Yahweh or Satan.....there is no neutral ground in the warfare for man's soul.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael Harrison
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If you are in a battle 'striving' between the flesh and the Spirit, you aren't yielding. God doesn't depend upon you to overcome. HE knows you are weak, fatally flawed. You cannot overcome. That is why HE died. He gives you HIS life. Will you not take it?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Twist? We've been down this road before becausehelives. I am fully willing to go again. As Jesus said to Peter, "Feed my sheep." And if I speak of myself, then am I judged. Not to fear, America, Jesus IS here.
Passive? Name for me one thing you can 'do' for God that counts, wparr. If you could, then you could 'earn' your way into heaven and/or its rewards. Needless to say, I would not like to see you try, for I know you can't. And if you make the claim that you are looking for the grocery store bonus rewards with your 'active' effort, well, Jesus already paid for those, and you can't work for them with any amount of effort. So when will you repent and serve God that you may benefit the benefit? (You too becausehelives?) For you make a mockery of His word. You cannot serve God till you quit trying, and walk in the finished work.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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wparr
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Michael, now matter how you try to twist the scriptures you can not remove the individual person (his or her) response to the finished work of Yahshua....
Yahshua lives through me but I must yield to the Spirit....The Apostle Paul understood this, it is a shame people today can not!
SOOO true.
True faith is not a passive one, it's a striving battle between flesh and The Holy Spirit.
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Michael, now matter how you try to twist the scriptures you can not remove the individual person (his or her) response to the finished work of Yahshua....
Yahshua lives through me but I must yield to the Spirit....The Apostle Paul understood this, it is a shame people today can not!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Michael Harrison
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Wow becausehelives, all that great stuff I just read in other posts, and now I have to dissagree (not that I haven't said this before).
quote:
Paul describes the Christian life as a constant straining forward toward the goal of eternal life that Christ gives us through his grace. Throughout his life, Paul had experienced “the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings”, but knew he had not yet “attained” perfection. He pressed on toward living a holy and God-pleasing life, yet with the firm realization that he will never become perfect until we reach heaven. By “pressing on” we grow and mature in our faith — living for Christ instead of living for ourselves.
quote:
becausehelives
Perfection is our goal, but not as though we can accomplish it. Rather it is because HE has already accomplished it. Now that Paul says that he has not 'attained', he simply means he has not attained 'resurrection' from the dead. In other words, Paul is not yet infallable. He can blow it, he realizes - and fears! In other words, he knew he could 'backslide' or something because he was still in his sinful body.
Now:
Php 3:7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [This is the starting point of sanctification]
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [For who among you has done that?]
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law [the imperfection of trying, or doing], but that which is through the faith of Christ, [the gift] the righteousness which is of God by faith:
Php 3:10 That [therefore] I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, [by] being made conformable unto his death; [that I may know HIS life!]
Php 3:11 If by any means I might [so that I may] attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Php 3:12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect [or translated already, as in 'finished']: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [It is a moment by moment life lived]
Php 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: [I still could slip up] but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Php 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Php 3:15 Let us therefore, as many as [who actually understand being] perfect,[as Jesus has spoken of] be thus minded: [as I am describing] and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded [and if you have a blind spot concerning anything], God shall reveal even this unto you. Amen!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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becauseHElives
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posted
Amen Barry , great post ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
The U.S. Olympic Trials for track and field have just begun in Eugene, OR. Hundreds of athletes have converged in a variety of disciplines hoping to punch their ticket to glory by making the U.S. Olympic team. Hours of hard work, days of dreaming and visualizing, weeks of intense discipline for this one opportunity. With this in mind, the Apostle Paul paints a similar pattern of hard work, visualizing and discipline of pressing in the faith in order to win the ultimate prize – eternal life with Christ Jesus in heaven.
Paul describes the Christian life as a constant straining forward toward the goal of eternal life that Christ gives us through his grace. Throughout his life, Paul had experienced “the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings”, but knew he had not yet “attained” perfection. He pressed on toward living a holy and God-pleasing life, yet with the firm realization that he will never become perfect until we reach heaven. By “pressing on” we grow and mature in our faith — living for Christ instead of living for ourselves.
“Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 3:12-14)
The Greek word Paul uses for “press on” can also be used to mean “to aspire, to seek out something or to pursue.” The word is most often used in the New Testament to mean “persecution”. Paul will use this word to describe how he persecuted the church. Now, with the same zeal Paul had before, he is now using to perfect himself in Christ. In both cases, Paul was striving to serve God. However, the former was resulting in nothing (no profit, rubbish), while the latter was resulting in everything (surpassing greatness).
Let’s take another look at this word in the context of sports.
Typically, success in sports depends on one’s ability, their level of conditioning and mental toughness. A successful athlete needs to be ready both physically and mentally. Overconfidence, the lack of proper physical training or lack of mental toughness when things get difficult have caused many athletes to suffer defeat in a race or competition they could have won. The same can be said for our spiritual lives. We are reminded in to “work out” or “exercise” our salvation. A believer who gets lazy, overconfident or does not exercise their faith, can run the risk of losing God’s blessings or derail them from serving God. Our competition is tough, crafty and a major deceiver. He will do anything to distract us. He will taunt us, cheat or discourage us, because he knows that he can’t win any other way. The goal of the evil one is to use the world to draw us away from God because only then, can he win.
Paul’s motivation is to take hold of (seize) in the same way Christ Jesus had reached out and seized him on the road to Damascus. Paul had seized the call of Jesus to serve him and to receive the promise of eternal life. God gives a call to serve for every believer. In that call, the Lord provides the means to carry out the task. To take hold or to seize is to put forth all of our energies as one would prepare and train for a competition. There is no limit to the spiritual growth we can receive. Even the Apostle Paul recognized he hadn’t fully taken hold of it. He didn’t look back on past accomplishments or failures to hold him back. “Forgetting what is behind” does not imply to remove something completely from our mind, but the constant necessity of pushing something out of our mind. It is like running a race against other opponents. They are definitely on your mind, but you need to focus on your own race. Having competitors does help us to strive harder. Knowing the ability of our opponents, remembering past successes, even failures, can be helpful.
The finish line is the goal. Typically, the first person across the line receives a prize. For a Christian, the goal and the prize is the same thing. The goal is to end our lives as believers and the prize is eternal life in heaven, each made possible through Jesus Christ. Paul is encouraging us to keep that goal and prize in mind as we “strain” (stretch out toward) to finish the race of the Christian life.
When I was in college, I ran the 400 meter hurdles. I loved that race with plenty of zeal. To be an intermediate hurdler, you have to be a little nuts. It is a very difficult race and each finish will bring a new measure of pain. This race consists of ten hurdles evenly distributed around a four hundred meter track. It was extremely important for a hurdler to focus on one hurdle at a time. The worst thing a hurdler could do was to look back. Not only would looking back slow you down in a race, but you might crash into the next hurdle! Your focus was always ahead, one hurdle at a time, and conquer the pain of the last 100 meters to finish the race. A good intermediate hurdler set apart from the others is able to combine speed, conditioning and plenty of guts to “press on” toward the finish line.
Life presents many hurdles for each of us. Pain, disappointment, even tragedy are placed in our path. Our competition is tough, sneaky and very deceptive. We don’t look back on the “What if’s?” or the “Why’s” for that would only cause us to stumble. Nor, can we hope to cross the finish line soon, thinking it will be easy or without pain, for that would be discouraging. But, we focus on the race ahead, one hurdle at a time, knowing it will be a challenge and even painful. Healing and overcoming pain and disappointment in life is a process that takes one hurdle at a time.
It reminds me of how our Lord orchestrated all events leading up to the death of Jesus Christ, his one and only son. The end, Christ’s death and resurrection, was the final victory on behalf of us. He has made it possible for us to finish the race and receive the prize, eternal life in heaven. The race of our Christian life is difficult, challenging, even painful. And we know this! This is no surprise.
In the moments before starting a 400 meter intermediate hurdle race, I looked forward to the challenge, but also knew it was going to be painful finish. Sometimes, the difference between winning and losing was the person’s ability to “dig in” during those final few meters. Paul knew that a Christian needed to “strain” and “press on” toward that finish line. No matter what difficulties lie ahead, our focus is to finish the race. We can race with confidence, because the Lord will only allow us to run in a race that we can win. We won’t race against world-class athletes, or those who won’t give us much competition. He will use circumstances in our life, grant us tough competitions, so that we need to strain toward that finish line. The only difference is that Christ’s death and resurrection guaranteed that we will receive the crown of glory. We will be declared the victor when we cross the finish line.
Letters to a Young Believer: A Commentary on the book of Philippians – Part 28
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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