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Topic: The righteousness which is IMPUTED TO US, is NOT an EARNED righteousness
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Michael Harrison
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posted
That works with planes also. But I used to be a machinist, and gearing always looks cool. One would be amazed at the technicality of designing one of those. And if one is off only two seconds only, in the design, then it will not mesh with another gear, and is useless.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
That is a cool pic wildb!
ThanX Michael. Modern day wheels use Hydraulics instead of gearing like you see in the picture. With the same results the steering of the ruder.
I took the helm under instruction while in the Navy.
When 300 miles out in the middle of the sea it would seam that it wouldn't matter what how close you kept coarse settings.
Yet one degree off over time will make the vessel ship wreck in the morning.
1Tim.1
[19] Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
OneinChrist, I agree with you.
Unless you, the believer, continually and actively, by the power of the Holy Spirit, "put to death" your bodys bad habits to which it has become accustomed and conditioned by your old nature, these bad habits will certainly find expression, so that you will certainly die,
spiritually and eternally as well as physically.
Not Biblical.
For the Bible reads~
Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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Michael Harrison
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The title to this topic says it all, but it it in the understanding thereof. For it says: "The righteousness of God is imputed, not earned."
So the discussion invariably turns to what one 'does' or 'does not' do. After all, since it is not earned, people cannot comprehend not doing anything. And then an argument ensues. For the devil makes the everyday servant to feel guilty, as though he is not 'doing' enough. And the key here is that the devil makes the one to feel guilty. Then he has been successful at discrediting the word of God; and the result is that the servant carries on "in works of the flesh," with well meaning zeal, to so-called, serve God.
This is exactly what yahswey says does not exist in a Christian. For that alone is carnal, not to mention anger, strife, bitterness, and all the things that come from 'not' trusting God, in the perfection of His will.
quote:
So if there is NO condemnation to those who are IN Christ, walking according to His Spirit, then there must be Condemnation to those who Are NOT in Christ and walking according to their own flesh. Carnal.
quote:
Yahswey
The trouble with this comment is one of presumption. Does one presume he is 'walking' according to the Spirit? It is most common. While this verse is properly viewed as written from a perspective of being Christian as reflected off of being non-Christian, it fails otherwise due to this fact: Paul was writing 'to' Christians, about Christians, always. And the condemnation 'is' to Christians who 'are' walking according to the flesh, instead of the Spirit. And that is the point of his sermons. That is the very point of every sermon of Paul:
Because believers 'presumed', and they erred. And that is one of the imaginations that Paul was predisposed towards 'casting down'. It was their presumption. It was their presumption which allowed them to 'abide' in the flesh, and work the works of the flesh, while serving Christ, therefore polluting the Spirit. What this means is that they weren't 'sanctified' therefore. They were not because the works of the flesh were manifest, which should not be if one is 'sanctified' as he or she claims.
Want evidence that they were Christians who were in the flesh?
- 1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
So the key then is in righteousness being imputed! The question is, is it? Scripture says it is, therefore that would be the end of the discussion, however, there is more being implied here. So the question now is, if one would not be presumptuous, is: is he who says he believes, receiving what is imputed? For if he is, then he is sanctified, and walking in the spirit.
But let's look back. Paul, we just read, told the Corinthians that as they behaved as they did, they were not receiving what was imputed. In other words, they were not participating with God. They were not 'receiving' the gift. That necessarily made them carnal. It made them babes. For babes in Christ are carnal, and here is the only 'growing process' one will see, is when one grows from being carnal, to spiritual.
Now just because the Spirit indwells one does not make him properly spiritual. For one has to 'abide' in the Spirit. It is a choice!
quote:
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
And this verse says it all in one sentence, "who 'walk' not after the flesh!" But notice that it says before that, "There is therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ, whowalk not after the flesh." In other words, to those who are in Christ, there is no condemnation, if..... There is a condition. And it is to those who are 'in Christ'. Therefore we see that he who is 'in' Christ, can walk according to the flesh, or the spirit.
And so oneinchrist said: quote:
If the bible says that I need to repent in order to be forgiven I think to myself that I have to be willing to face the truth that I have sin and will struggle with it till I die, but at the same time I must declare sin to be my enemy. I must forsake it, renounce it, grow to hate it, and turn from it. OneinChrist
quote:
oneinchrist
That is sanctification! Yet, is it? For he does not accomplish it who purposes, yet the intent is the beginning of it. But the accomplishing of it is of the Lord. Therefore, if it is 'imputed', and we receive it, then we can therefore, "walk in it." Then we are 'walking inthe Spirit', and not in the flesh. code:
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yahsway
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OneinChrist, I agree with you.
In Romans 8:13 Paul says-
"If by the Spirit you keep putting to death the PRACTICES of the body, you will live."
The KJV states it as "mortify the deeds of the body..."
This is not a mandate for "mortification of the flesh," in the sense of asceticism or masochism, which Paul elsewhere says have no spiritual value (7:5, Co 2:16-23). Rather, he is only restating what he has been urging since verse 5.
The phrase "practices of the body", refers to the bodys bad habits which the sinful Old Nature has produced.
Previously Paul wrote similarly of the bodys "various parts" which a believer should NOT "offer....to sin as an instrument for wickedness"
Unless you, the believer, continually and actively, by the power of the Holy Spirit, "put to death" your bodys bad habits to which it has become accustomed and conditioned by your old nature, these bad habits will certainly find expression, so that you will certainly die,
spiritually and eternally as well as physically.
By actively and continually setting the mind on the Spirit (v6), you will live as explained in vv 10-11.
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WildB
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That is all.....
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oneinchrist
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posted
So what are you trying to say, Wild B? Please explain.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Wild B,
Please do not allow yourself to view Pauls teachings on carnality as a basis for justifying carnality.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Its amazing how some steer while under instruction.
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oneinchrist
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Wild B,
Please do not allow yourself to view Pauls teachings on carnality as a basis for justifying carnality. Paul strictly warns against carnal-mindedness and we should not take it lightly. We are taught to view sin as our enemy for our own protection.
If I may, I would like to show what I believe to be an essential distiction......... While it is true that Christians can be carnal-minded on and off at varying times with varying intensities(I would not accuse Paul of being wrong in that assertion)...... the real danger comes in is if we allow it to permeate so much into our thoughts and emotions that we start allowing our lives to be fashioned by worldly motives. That is when I believe we lean more towards the possibility of falling away and defecting from our Lord.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
bluefrog, if i may,
I personally do not believe in "carnal christians" .
Not Biblical.
Please reread the Bible prayerfully.
1Cor.3
[1] And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
[3] For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
[4] For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
[5] Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
[6] I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
[7] So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
[8] Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
[9] For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
[10] According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
[11] For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
[12] Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
[13] Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
[14] If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
[15] If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
[16] Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
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That is all.....
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yahsway
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bluefrog, if i may,
I personally do not believe in "carnal christians" and here is why.
The definition of Carnal is sensual, worldly, nonspiritual. The Apostle Paul contrast "spiritual people", that is, those who are under the control of the Holy Spirit, with those who are "carnal" those under the control of the flesh.
Paul states in Romans 8 that "there is therefore NO condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit".
So if there is NO condemnation to those who are IN Christ, walking according to His Spirit, then there must be Condemnation to those who Are NOT in Christ and walking according to their own flesh. Carnal.
Then he goes on to say -
"For those who live according to the flesh (Carnal) set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit(Not Carnal) the things of the Spirit."
"For to be carnally minded is Death, but to be Spiritually minded is Life and peace."
"Because the carnal mind is Enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor Indeed Can be. So this verse is saying to me that there is NO such thing as a "carnal Christian" because that would mean you are against God. Its an oxymoron.
But notice that Paul, speaking to the Church of Corinth says "But you (Corinth Christians, Not Carnal Christians) are NOT in the flesh (Carnal) but in the Spirit, IF indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
"Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is NOT His." In other words, that person is not a Christian, a follower of Christ.
"But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your Mortal bodies thru His Spirit who dwells in you."
This does not say the "Carnal Christians" will have life given to their mortal bodies by the Spirit of God, it says "but IF the Spirit of Him dwells in you", this one will be given life.
Remember the scripture said "to be carnally minded is Death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
becauseHeLives is right in that sanctification is a seed growing process. It depends on which seed you have and what you feed it.
If you feed the carnal seed you seperate yourself from God which surely brings death. It will wither and die.
If you feed the Spiritual seed it flourishes and lives. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, These are the sons of God."
In verse 8 of Romans 8 "Those who are in the flesh" characterizes peoples very nature and is a stronger description than the activity of walking according to the flesh. The phrase "therefore" refers to Unbelievers (Not Carnal Christians") who cannot please God.
This situation is not true of Believers, as the following verse shows-
verse 9 "But you who are not in the flesh but in the spirit....
We all start out as "babes in Christ" if we are believers, but we can either stay there or move on into maturity. It all depends on what we feed ourselves.
But to say one is a "Carnal Christian" is to say that no longer are they babes in Christ drinking the milk of the word but that the milk has become "Clabbered", not fit to drink, will not sustain life. Almost like returning to vomit.
I know that some denominations teach this "Carnal Christian" worldly, sensual people, but scripture says to be friends with the world is to be enemies with God. One cannot have 2 masters.
The letter Paul wrote to the Corinthian Church reveals some of the typical Greek cultural problems of his day, including the gross sexual immorality of the city of Corinth.
The Greeks were known for their idolatry, divisive philosophies, spirit of litigation, and rejection of a bodily resurrection.
The city of Corinth was was infamous for its Sensuality and sacred prostitution. The cits chief diety was Aphrodite(Venus), the goddess of licentious love and a thousand professional prostitutes served in the temple dedicated to her worship.
This same spirit of the city showed up in the Church and explains the kind of problems the people in that church faced.
It also reveals some of the problems the former pagans had in not transferring previous religious experiences to the ministry experience of the Holy Spirit. They may have associated some of the frenzied antics of paganisim with the exercise of spiritual gifts.
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oneinchrist
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Hi again Eden,
I had to read your post a few times to "digest" it better. I do not want to argue over salvation vs. sanctification doctrines. I try to read the bible at face value and I try not to compartmentalize it so much.
If I read a passage that says......."Forgive, and you will be forgiven" I believe that is exactly what it means no matter what doctrine I hold to pertaining to salvation.
If I read another passage that says "He that endures to the end shall be saved" I think to myself.........My faith is going to be tested so I had better have an honest and true heart towards God, and I also think that I will need to learn that I may need to increase in my prayer life and dependency on God through future trials.
If the bible says that I need to repent in order to be forgiven I think to myself that I have to be willing to face the truth that I have sin and will struggle with it till I die, but at the same time I must declare sin to be my enemy. I must forsake it, renounce it, grow to hate it, and turn from it. I can never again allow it to be my friend.
If the bible says that I must believe in Jesus that means to me.......I must believe that He is Son of God, Savior, and Lord. I must receive Him as savior for my sin and I must submit my life under His authority as Lord of my life.
If the bible says that we can fall away, then I need to pay special attention to all scriptural warnings..........Eden I could go on and on.....but I think you get my drift.....at least I hope. Your friend in the Lord.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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bluefrog
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EDEN..I have a couple of questions...
Does it say in the scriptures that God Extends Salvation, and hands out Righteousness when the new bodies are handed out for those carnal Christians? If it does, and I assume that you say it does, I wanna know so I can check it out.
Don't remember hearing or reading that before?
By the way, has Righteousness been discussed here?
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Eden
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becauseHElives wrote to Eden quote:
imputed righteousness is a seed, if properly cared for and nourished it will grow and flourish, if not it will wither and die....this is part of the understanding of the Parable of the Sower" ...
When is this IMPUTED righteousness RECEIVED? becauseHElives seems to think that this imputed righteousness is being given to us in bits and pieces even now.
But when Abraham received HIS imputed righteousness, was Abraham given his imputed righteousness RIGHT THERE AND THEN? I don't think so.
The righteousness which is imputed to us more likely refers to the free gift of eternal life and our glorified bodies that we will receive later.
But, it is true that once one is saved, one DOES get access to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit does come and dwell in us, so perhaps that is the imputed righteousness spoken of.
So when do we GET this imputed righteousness? Now or later or both?
love, Eden
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Eden
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Michael Harrison wrote to Eden quote:
So, to be sanctified, one has to paddle his own canoe, but to be saved one does not? Let us do a retake. Does God sanctify, or do we? Who paddles?
There are many carnal Chrristians out there who are saved thru faith, but when it comes to sanctification, there are STILL paddling their own canoe, meaning, they still rule their own lives from the soul, without bothering to get input from the Spirit of God. Those carnal Christians are still paddling their own canoe and they will barely be sanctified.
But then there are Christians who are saved by faith, and who then continue into sanctification by listening to the Holy Spirit and by reading/hearing the written Word of God, and these Christians learn to "cease from their own works", meaning, they stop operating their body from the soul level.
Instead they now allow the Holy Spirit to guide ALL their STEPS, and the Christian co-operates with the Spirit by DOING what the Spirit of God said to do next.
These kinds of Christians are the ones in whom Jesus thru the Spirit does the paddling of the canoe. And these Christians will experience more and more sanctification.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Subject: The righteousness which is IMPUTED TO US, is NOT an EARNED righteousness.
Well, now we are off talking about sanctification. OK. What does sanctification mean? Webster says: To set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use; consecrate; to free from sin; purify; to give moral or social sanction to. Revel dictionary says: To make holy, to set apart.
In the OT people were to sanctify themselves before taking part in worship or encounters with God. Lev. 11:44 For I am the Lord your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves (your souls), and ye shall be holy; neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Lev. 8:10 And Moses took the anointing oil and anointed the tabernacle and all that was therein, and sanctified them.
But, in the NT the sanctification was different.
It was Jesus that brought on the change.
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer (worse) punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and wherewith (with) He was sanctified, an unholy (unclean)thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Now, through Jesus, ordinary human beings are set apart to serve God in their daily lives. Christ alive in his people in every situation, enables believers to glorify God by living their lives in a Christ like way. It is a powerful word of hope, assuring believers that a truly good life has now become possible. We will experience sanctification thru the sanctifying work of the Spirit. This helps us to become the kind of person God wants us to be.
One tradition holds that sanctification involves complete freedom from sin in this life through a perfect love for God. Another tradition is that it is more of a struggle between sin, so deeply rooted in human nature and the new nature given by God. With the power of the Holy Spirit the believer can choose the good, sort of a growing process. In either case, the believers believe in prospects of personal transformation now and ultimate transformation at the resurrection.
I sure hope that this explains what sanctification means to us. I try to keep it simple so we don't have a problem seeing the forest for the trees. To me, simple works gooder. Rivit
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
But God IS EXTENDING salvation to all people in exchange for MERELY BELIEVING that Jesus died for us. Anyone who sincerely believes that (and God knows the hearts), WILL be given this FREE RIGHTEOUSNESS when it comes time to hand out the glorified bodies.
"O" really? Obama, by his own confession believes that Jesus 'died' for His sins. But the impression I get is that Obama thinks Jesus is really stupid to do a thing like that. After all, something more is needed, and Obama is not providing it. Moreover 'that' is what is needed in order to be saved, and that which we consider is surrender. For without surrender, one mocks God. Therefore one benefits not by 'believing' only. He must be invested in God by submission to HIS will.
quote:
Once a person is SAVED, then that person receives ACCESS to the Holy Spirit and between the saved Christian, the Holy Spirit, and the written Word of God, a person may, or may not, depending on the effort put into it by the Christian, end up "more santified", meaning, he at least TRIES to behave more in line with the 10 commandments.
One is sanctified, or one is not sanctified. And how much effort does one put into being saved? You said he must believe! I said he must surrender. But how much effort does that take? And how much credit do we get for our effort of surrendering? And how much more effort is needed to be sanctified? For if it depended upon one's effort, no amount would be enough. And that is the gospel of Christ. [/quote]
quote:
I think that failure to separate what we have to do to receive salvation and what we have to do for sanctification, causes all this confusion. All the commandments in the Bible to "do this and do that" are for sanctification, NOT for salvation. Salvation is acquired by merely believing that Jesus died for us. But sanctification, and rewards for making the effort, are all part of sanctification ONLY.
So, to be sanctified, one has to paddle his own canoe, but to be saved one does not? Let us do a retake. Does God sanctify, or do we? Who paddles?
Some think that abstaining from something equals his 'effort' to be sanctified. That is works and that is confusing. And because it is confusing, some people just do not get it. Sanctification is not abstenence. It is freedom from the need to perform that which is unseemly. It does not come from one's own determination else one could take 'credit' for that which only God can perform.
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Copper25
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John 17:17) Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.) Simply put, without heeding the word of God, his truth, how can on ever achieve or gain santification or even start the process whether the person believes that God is or that the Lord Jesus is, this is were the importance of the sower parable comes in. Fruitfulness is a result of sanctification Hebrews 12:14).. holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord)) Sanctification will result in more holy living and that type of lifestyle that God wants of us.
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote quote:
Sanctification is not automatic without accepting Jesus' authority over your life. What do you think?
That's correct. SANCTIFICATION is NOT automatic; it is a co-operative effort by the Christian and the Holy Spirit and the Word of God.
But salvation IS automatic by MERELY BELIEVING. When there is a sincere belief in a person's heart that Jesus died on our behalf, then in exchange for that belief, God IMPUTES righteousness to us, meaning God will give us FREE SALVATION, JUST FOR WHAT JESUS DID, and NOTHING else is needed to receive that.
As for the Devil's also believing that Jesus died FOR PEOPLE, the Devil knows that salvation is ONLY FOR PEOPLE, so it does not matter how much the Devil believes that Jesus died for us; the Devil also knows that the salvation offer is NOT FOR HIM.
But God IS EXTENDING salvation to all people in exchange for MERELY BELIEVING that Jesus died for us. Anyone who sincerely believes that (and God knows the hearts), WILL be given this FREE RIGHTEOUSNESS when it comes time to hand out the glorified bodies.
Once a person is SAVED, then that person receives ACCESS to the Holy Spirit and between the saved Christian, the Holy Spirit, and the written Word of God, a person may, or may not, depending on the effort put into it by the Christian, end up "more santified", meaning, he at least TRIES to behave more in line with the 10 commandments.
I think that failure to separate what we have to do to receive salvation and what we have to do for sanctification, causes all this confusion. All the commandments in the Bible to "do this and do that" are for sanctification, NOT for salvation. Salvation is acquired by merely believing that Jesus died for us. But sanctification, and rewards for making the effort, are all part of sanctification ONLY.
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength, this is the first commandment.
John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Psalms 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous; But the Lord delivereth him out of them all.
ONEINCHRIST. You asked Eden: Do you believe that a person can believe in all those wonderful things about Jesus/God and not come to repentance and surrender to the will of God under the Lordship of Jesus yes or no ?
My answer, if you want it is Yes.
Even Satan himself believes all those things but he certainly isn't going to change. People can believe in a lot of things but not act on them.
Having faith in God means to turn it ALL over to Him. me thinks.
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oneinchrist
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Good morning Eden,
Do you believe that a person can believe those wonderful things about Jesus/God and not come to repentance and surrender to the will of God under the Lordship of Jesus? Yes or no
I am sorry but believing in Jesus is not just believing all the things about Him. It is also committing ones life to Him for service according to the will of God. If you do not agree, that is where you and I stand in contrast. Sanctification is not automatic without accepting Jesus' authority over your life. What do you think?
With love in Christ, Daniel
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becauseHElives
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quote:
The righteousness which we receive from God as Christians is IMPUTED TO US, and this righteousness CANNOT BE EARNED BY US in any way.
This is a true statement but just as true is that the righteousness that is imputed will reproduce after the same kind. Thus we now understand faith without works (corresponding action) is dead.
imputed righteousness is a seed, if properly cared for and nourished it will grow and flourish, if not it will wither and die....this is part of the understanding of the Parable of the Sower"..........
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote quote:
Eden, I agree with you that a man cannot take the credit for the washing away of his own sins .... But, there still remains the call to be a disciple of Jesus and that requires a response of faith on our part ...
I think the way it works is that salvation is imputed or given for free to us merely by BELIEVING what the God of the Bible said about Jesus dying for us and about Jesus being the Son of God in a special way. Just for BELIEVING that, God gives, or WILL GIVE, us His rigtheousness.
Then secondly, God says, Okay, son, now you are IN the Family of God and I know that you came from the Devil's family, but here in This Family we BEHAVE differently than you did while you were a member of the Devil's family.
AND HERE IS THE MANUAL of how to behave IN the Family of God, the Bible or Word of God. And this is SANCTIFICATION, learning how to behave, as much as lies in us, within the Family of God, and also, as a member of the Family of God, how to behave toward the Devil's families.
So there are two things: The only way we can receive SALVATION is by BELIEVING what God said is true about Jesus and about us being sinners, etc., and by BELIEVING (or "agreeing") with God, God then IMPUTES RIGHTEOUSNESS TO US in exchange for having believed. THIS cannot be earned by BEHAVIOR, only by BELIEVING in what God said.
But BEHAVIOR comes in AFTER we are saved. Once we are saved, we are given the Holy Spirit AND the written Word of God to "help us learn how to behave within the Family of God" and "as members of the Family of God towards the outside world".
But all this is ALL sanctification, and NONE of it belongs to salvation.
Salvation is NOT acquired by BEHAVIOR, i.e., is NOt acquired by being EXTRA GOOD TODAY, as if I will have a better chance with God then.
No, BEHAVIOR belongs only to the process of sanctification or "how to behave now that I am in the Family of God", and BELIEVING is how to acquire salvation:
Romans 4
1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, has found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he has whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what says the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness.
4 Now, to him who works is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted to him for righteousness.
We acquire salvation through believing God, and we acquire sanctification IF we learn how to behave in the Family of God with the help of the Holy Spirit and with the help of what is written in the Word of God.
Romans 4
6 Even as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered.
8 Yes, blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
But instead we Christians, instead of BELIEVING for salvation, often try to IMPROVE our behavior to ACQUIRE SALVATION ...as in, "if I don't do so and so, I cannot possibly receive salvation."
And as in, "If I pray more and read the Bible more and if am nicer to people and I give more, THEN God will like me enough to give me salvation, I'm sure of it".
But God says that "Jesus died in my place" and that if I will accept and BELIEVE that, then God will FREELY IMPUTE RIGHTEOUSNESS to me just for BELIEVING that Jesus died for me, as God said.
But after that we are given the Holy Spirit and the Word of God to "become a little nicer now that we ARE in the Family of God".
Romans 5
1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Justified by faith (salvation), not by works (sanctification).
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
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posted
Good Morning Eden,
I agree with you that a man cannot take the credit for the washing away of his own sins............ But, there still remains the call to be a disciple of Jesus and that requires a response of faith on our part.............
Luke 14:33 "So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be my disciple
Luke 19:27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.
On one more note.......I see nothing about repentance in your post. It seems like we are circling back to where we started a long time ago. Please let me know whether you believe a man can be saved without repentance and surrendering to the Lordship of Jesus and then we can go from there.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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posted
The righteousness which we receive from God as Christians is IMPUTED TO US, and this righteousness CANNOT BE EARNED BY US in any way.
IN the gospel of grace, God wants NOTHING TO DO with our own righteousness:
Ezekiel 33:13
When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; IF he trusts in his own righteousness, and commits iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he has committed, he shall die for it.
Philippians 3:9
But to be found in Him, not having My own righteousness which is of the law, but that {righteousness} which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith.
Romans 10:3
For they, being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
I am afraid that many of us Christians still go about tinkering and trying to repair our own righteousness, to make it look a little better, and thereby hoping that God will accept us more.
But that is not the gospel of God and Jesus.
When Abram believed God and was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac, believing that God could and would raise Isaac from the dead again, God COUNTED Abram's faith AS righteousness, and so to speak, "gave Abraham FREE righteousness JUST FOR BELIEVING what God had said":
Romans 4:3
For what says the scripture? Abraham believed God, and that was counted unto him for righteousness.
Galatians 3:6
Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was IMPUTED TO HIM for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
The righteousness that we are looking for is the righteousness which IS IMPUTED TO US JUST FOR BELIEVING IN HIM, the righteousness which IS OF FAITH in what God said in the Bible; God cannot lie, if God said it, it is true.
God is SO NICE to us that He allows MERELY BY BELIEVING that what God said in the Bible is TRUE, for that mere BELIEF God will IMPUTE HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS TO US, FOR FREE.
We cannot earn it, we don't even have it in ourselves. It is NOT ANYTHING having to do with our OWN righteousness. It is ANOTHER righteousness altogether.
It is NOT OUR righteousness, whether "cleaned up somewhat with a tuxedo and refined speech" or "not so cleaned up with grimy clothes and rough speech", THAT are still all FILTHY righteousnesses to God.
No, the ONLY righteousness which we are looking for is the righteousness that is IMPUTED TO US THROUGH FAITH in what Jesus has done for us.
If we BELIEVE what God said about Jesus, then FOR THAT BELIEF ONLY, God will on His part IMPUTE RIGHTEOUSNESS TO US JUST FOR BELIEVING that what God said about Jesus, is true.
IT IS A FAITH THING ONLY. God does NOT CARE how we have MANANGED TO DRESS UP our own righteousness, it is still and will always remain to Him, "as filthy rags":
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which says, Abraham BELIEVED God, and it was IMPUTED TO HIM for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Let us also look for that righteousness only which is IMPUTED TO US FOR FREE BY GOD, just for believing what God said in the Bible, is true.
Hebrews 6:15
And so, after He had patiently endured, He obtained the promise.
Romans 4:7
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
love, Eden
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