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Author Topic: Where Will the Kingdom Be Established?
Aaron
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Oh ye mean... like it is within you or something? Like it comes not with observation? Like maybe it is RIGTHEOUSNESS PEACE JOY and POWER in the HOLY GHOST whether you be in the body or out?

Not any more nigh at hand, but is come?

Yeah, something like that. [roll on floor]

Aaron

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Oh ye mean... like it is within you or something? Like it comes not with observation? Like maybe it is RIGTHEOUSNESS PEACE JOY and POWER in the HOLY GHOST whether you be in the body or out?

Not any more nigh at hand, but is come?

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aaron
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The kingdom is already here and in Heaven.

Did I miss something?

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Miguel
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That siggy will remind me of His Grace. [wiggle7]

Not fare! Ahh! 3/4 of the page. I did not want to go all the way down to the kingdom it was to far for me.. [happyhappy] I am waiting for the Lord to caught me up in the air so that I may not walk that far. [Razz]

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
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Well I did not think that it was very nice of you to make me read 3/4 of the page before letting me know that you have not gone off the deep end MAC [Razz]

Yes Drew, very Armstrongian. Parts of this are held by several denominations. This is very similar in some points to the eschatology that one who has just left us was preaching. It would be fun to address each of there points ..point by point. Unfortunately I do not have the time today. But there is an answer to each one that allows for harmony with all the scripture presented. Maybe someone else could undertake the task. [Big Grin]

Mack... put some bold to separate your opinion from the 3/4 of error up there so you dont scare the bejeeebbers out of some other unsuspecting soul [hug] [roll on floor]

By the way, I love your new siggy! That is cool!

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Miguel
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quote:
Rev 20:6 - Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection,.... This may be considered either as descriptive of the persons that shall partake of this privilege; as that they are only such who are blessed with spiritual blessings, with a justifying righteousness, with pardon of sin, and regenerating grace, and who are sanctified by the Spirit of God; these, and these only, will be first raised, and will be called to inherit the kingdom prepared for them, Mat_25:34 or else as expressive of their happiness and holiness when raised; they shall be perfectly blessed in soul and body, and perfectly holy in both: they shall be "blessed"


--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Miguel
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It is wonderfull to know in the word of God that we His people at death we are present with Him. That is one of the hopes a child of God have in their heart place by the Father. Thy is why He sayest "Blessed are those that partake in the First resurection for the second one will be our body been made unto glory uncorruptible...

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
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Drew and Miguel

Thanks! Now I understand. I should not have taken on the post in the first place because today my ADD is at high level and my concentration is not at it's best. But now I do understand. So much of my family are already with God and that gives me peace.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
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+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

MAC -------> The only questian I have is if this is true how showld we or I dealt with Mathew 17:1-5 and 2 Corinthians 5:8

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

(2Co 5:8 ESV) Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 MKJV) then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 SRV) Mas confiamos, y más quisiéramos partir del cuerpo, y estar presentes al Señor.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Amen Miguel!!

Betty, Miguel is just showing false teaching in the early section of his post, and then refuting it in his conclusion. Sounds a bit JW, or Armstrongian.

John 14:
1: Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


1 Thess. 4:
14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18: Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


Rev. 4:
1: After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
2: And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.
3: And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
4: And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
5: And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
6: And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
7: And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
8: And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
9: And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
10: The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Rev. 6:
9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Rev. 7:

9: After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10: And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11: And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12: Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13: And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14: And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15: Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16: They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17: For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Do not give it one iota of concern Dear Saints of the Living God, for though we sojourn in this alien land called earth, our Home is in Glory in the very presence of the Lord God.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Miguel
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Hi TEXASGRANDMA [wave3]

That is what I hold also, but read slowly and you will see why I place this article..

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
TEXASGRANDMA
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I don't understand your post at all. I believe when we die we go to be with Jesus and that is fine with me.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Miguel
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Where Will the Kingdom Be Established?

A dominant falsehood that Satan has foisted on mankind is the belief that one's soul goes to heaven after death. Many people assume that the phrase Kingdom of God is synonymous with heaven, but the Bible teaches that when Jesus Christ returns, the Kingdom of God will be established on earth!

First, notice how the Bible completely refutes the notion of "going to heaven" after death. Peter tells the crowd on the day of Pentecost, "Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.. .. For David did not ascend into the heavens" (Acts 2:29, 34). This "man after God's own heart" is not in heaven, but still in the grave! Our Savior confirms this in John 3:13: "No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven."

The dead saints of the Old and New Testaments alike are sleeping in their graves, awaiting the resurrection—without consciousness (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10). Job describes waiting for the resurrection in this way: "If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, till my change comes. You shall call, and I will answer You. . ." (Job 14:14-15).

Many verses refer to the dead as "sleeping," and this analogy comes from the fact that when a person sleeps deeply, many unaccounted hours may pass. Likewise, during the time we are dead, we will have no consciousness, no awareness. Many years may elapse between the time that we die and our resurrection, but we will not be aware of the passing of time. It will be as if we blinked, and then are alive again. Thus, from the point of view of consciousness, it will seem like we have gone from the physical body to the spiritual immediately, despite perhaps many years separating death and resurrection.

Paul teaches in I Corinthians 15 that the resurrection does not occur until Jesus Christ returns—at which point the "dead in Christ" will be resurrected with spiritual bodies, and the living saints will be changed to spirit "in the twinkling of an eye" (verse 52). If the saints were to go to heaven automatically after death, what need would there be for a resurrection? In verse 53, Paul even says that the "mortal" will have to "put on immortality," meaning we do not now have it (see also Romans 2:7). Only God has immortality now (I Timothy 6:15-16).

In the Beatitudes of Matthew 5, Jesus says that the poor in spirit receive the "kingdom of heaven," while the meek "inherit the earth" (Matthew 5:3, 5; see also Psalm 37:11). Will God divide the "poor in spirit" saints from the "meek" saints, sending them to different places? If a saint is both meek and poor in spirit, will he inherit both heaven and earth? No—this apparent conundrum dissolves when we realize that Matthew uses the phrase "kingdom of heaven," whereas the other gospel writers refer to the "kingdom of God." Obviously, the "kingdom of God" does not mean that the Kingdom is located in God, but that it belongs to God. In the same way, the "kingdom of heaven" simply means that the Kingdom is owned by "heaven," where God's throne is. The poor in spirit will inherit the same Kingdom that the meek will—and that Kingdom will be set up on earth.

Galatians 3:29 says that if we belong to Christ, then we are considered to be Abraham's seed, and thus heirs (though not yet inheritors) of the promises to him. Whatever Abraham inherits in the resurrection, we also will inherit. Genesis 13:15 says that the inheritance is eternal, and Romans 4:13 explains that the promise is expanded to include the whole world. "Heaven," though, was not a part of the promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, or to us.

The Bible shows that the Kingdom of God will be set up on the earth: "And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth!" (Revelation 5:10, The Amplified Bible). Notice Revelation 11:15 as well, which prophesies that Christ's Kingdom will take over the kingdoms of this earth:

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!"

Three times in the book of Revelation, the apostle John describes the "holy city," New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven, rather than being in heaven (Revelation 3:12; 21:2, 10). New Jerusalem will be set up on the new—cleansed and purified—earth. God Himself will dwell with men—not in heaven but in New Jerusalem on earth:

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away. ... He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son." (Revelation 21:1-4, 7)

Many centuries of pagan tradition have convinced people that heaven is their "home" and their reward when they die. Nevertheless, the biblical record is plain: God's Kingdom will be established on the earth He created, and it will be an everlasting Kingdom. (For more examples of the Kingdom being established on earth, see Psalm 2:6-8; 47:1-9; Jeremiah 23:5; Ezekiel 37:21-28; Daniel 2:44-45; 7:17-18, 27; Micah 4:1-5; Zechariah 9:9-10; 14:9, 16-17; Revelation 2:26-27.)

MAC -------> The only questian I have is if this is true how showld we or I dealt with Mathew 17:1-5 and 2 Corinthians 5:8

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

(2Co 5:8 ESV) Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 MKJV) then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord.

(2Co 5:8 SRV) Mas confiamos, y más quisiéramos partir del cuerpo, y estar presentes al Señor.

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

Posts: 2792 | From: Stockton,Ca | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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