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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Who is the gospel for? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: Who is the gospel for?
KnowHim
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epouraniois,

We do not teach Hyper-Dispensationalism on this message board. If you want to discuss it, then you can ONLY do so in the Exposing False Teaching section of this message board.

That is why I am moving this thread to that area.

Warning:

If you continue to bring this teaching into the bible study and other areas I will be forced to remove you from this message board.

You are welcome to stay, but you are not welcome to teach Hyper-Dispensationalism and start a debate about it on every post.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
To say it was revealed before it was, and to place the hope of going to heavenly places to those during the Acts is against what is revealed by the apostle.
The church at Philippi, and the church at Colosse, and the church at Ephesus were all formed many years before Paul ever went to Rome, they came to be Christians in Philippi, and Colosse, and Ephesus during Paul's first and second missonary journey as is testified in Acts 13-18.

quote:
Paul is certainly stating a fact, what do you make of the argument the apostle sets forth in those chapters, noting he is speaking in the Prison Epistles where the subject is stated right where we could expect it to be, at the beginning:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

which immediately connects this church, not with the covenents and promises of Israel, not to a graphed in peoples, not to a choosing after the world began, but to a choosing that occurred 'before the foundation of the world':

You think that Abraham was chosen when God called him out of UR??? I believe that Abraham was chosen before the world began! The Lamb was slain before the world began!

Those who were not written were not written from the foundation!

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Jesus said to the disciples that they were not of this world; if not of this whorld then of what? Of something heavenly???

John 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

Eternal life was promised before the world began! I was promised to all who love God.. to all who would believe to Jew and to Gentile.

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Believers in Rome are called to be saints:

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Believers in Jerusalem... Saints

Romans 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

In Corinth... believers called to be Saints:

1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

The Ephesians... Saints of the HOUSEHOLD OF GOD..

Ephesians 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

At Philippi... SAINTS...

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

In Collosse... Saints....

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

In Thessolonica... Saints.........

1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

The Bride of Christ.... Saints.........

Revelation 19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

**************************************************


The calling to Israelites, to Jew, and to Gentile, to the natural and to the adopted seed of Abraham.. to Abraham himself has always been a heavenly calling...

Hebrews 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.

12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

The earthly Jerusalem has always been a shaddow of a more excellent place!

Yes, we have more... all those of us who have come since Christ was manifest/crucified/died/buried/risen... have experience of our heavenly citizenship now on earth in this life, and none before us in any other dispensation has ever had that.. we know the mystery... Christ in us! No one before us has had the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit.

1 Timothy 4:8 For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.


The Gentiles are Fellow Heirs:

Ephesians 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Gentiles... children of the Promise just as Issac was...

Galatians 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Romans 4:16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

You cannot carve up the family of God. We are all part of the same family; some of us were born into the family, some of us were adopted into the family, but it is ONE family. We all have different roles in the Kingdom, but it is ONE Kingdom; It is a Kingdom that is everlasting and in it are Abraham, and Paul, and all who love God and believe in the SON and are called Saints then, now, and tomorrow.

Christ did not come to establish an earthly Kingdom, he came to teach the Jews that they did not understand that the Kingdom is heavenly... always has been! Abraham knew this: his seed knew this.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


Jesus came preaching a Kingdom Gospel... this is true, but it was Good News about a heavenly Kingdom! Why was it Good News? Because the News was that eternal life/the riches and glory that God has prepared for those that love HIM has always come by GRACE to the Faithful!

What Kingdom was at hand???

Matthew 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This does not speak of "His Own" as in a nation of Jews... but as people of the flesh - He came into the world - the world which was made by Him, in Flesh like the world, but he was not OF the world and those that were OF the World received HIM not... but those who did receive him were not of the world...

John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

His Kingdom is not of the world...

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

His Kingdom is heavenly and it is a Kingdom of Saints of the Most High GOD, and one day, the Kingdoms of men of the earth are going to be given to Christ and to us who are HIS body...and to Our People.

Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Our Kingdom is an everlasting one... the Kingdoms of men are not. For one day this earth and all that is not part of the Kingdom of the Most High God will be destroyed..

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Miguel
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Ok Epouraniois let me asked of thee these and since you say we have to be true and honest I know you will answer this question unto me. That will place any doubt on what you stand away for we know where does thy self-stand.

I will begging with my self because it goes both ways; I believed in the doctrines of Grace and fallow, study them. Many here know that I stand on that doctrine and for those that did not know, now they do. That for many people is called Calvinism, but yet I don’t view or hold all that he said but on the Doctrines of Grace I agree with Him. Ok

Now, do you Epouraniois hold the view of Mid Acts Dispensationalists beliefs?
Very simple question, yes or no. I know you do but for those that are here on this board that don’t know.

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Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

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epouraniois
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If nobody but me thinks heaven is different than the earth, then I guess words have no meaning and we are all free to read the words to mean anything that fits easily into our undertanding.

Can it be shown that the Holy Spirit was wrong, that heaven is the believers hope during the Acts, because by the Holy Spirit the apostle writes that it was a secret not revealed before, but hid from ages and from generations.

If I am unwelcome to show these verses, then please let me know and I will not post.

As I always try to respond with Biblical chapter and verse to any question I respond too, the same cannot be said of the majority of my questions, they just go unanswered as far as the Bible is concerned.

the Bible declares that it is the many who are deceived, not the few, but the many. We also find those who cannot handle the truth turn away from it, Joh 6:66, but now they can turn away without going anywhere.

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Miguel
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[Cross] the Gospel

Therefore, the elements of the Gospel consist of the knowledge that all people have sinned (Rom. 3:23), that the consequence of committing sin is death (Rom. 6:23), that we cannot please God by our works (Isaiah 64:6), and that we are delivered from the judgment of God, by faith in Christ (Rom. 5:1,8).
Being saved means that a person has been delivered from damnation. But how does one become saved? It is not enough to simply understand the Gospel. It is not enough even to believe the Gospel. Salvation occurs when a person receives Christ (John 1:12), as an act of faith, in the finished work of Christ, Who died for our sins, on the Cross. Believing that the Gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection for our sins, does not mean that a person who understands what that is, is saved. Someone might believe that Jesus died and rose from the dead, as Mormons do, and yet not be saved. The Gospel necessarily includes the proper preaching of Who Christ is; God in flesh. Contextually, this means that there is only one God, who is a Trinity, and that the second Person of the Trinity became flesh, and dwelt among us (John 1:1,14,18). [Cross]

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

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Miguel
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The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ was reveald from heaven to the poor, brokenhearted,captives,the blind and them that are bruised...

With the Jews and the Gentiles you will find the poor, brokenhearted,captives,the blind and them that are bruiseded.. Better yet presented the Gospel came to the human race!

--------------------
Romans 9:11-24

Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!

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KnowHim
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epouraniois,

Please see the below post before you continue teaching Hyper-Dispensationalism on this message board.

Thank you,
David

http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000172;p=1#000001

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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Splitting heirs!!! I kove that!! [pound] [pound] [thumbsup2]

quote:
Are you adopted into the family which has it's hopes and callings in the kingdom on the earth?
Yes as a matter of fact I am because I am part of the Body of Jesus the Christ who is an heir of David.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Paul is certainly stating a fact, what do you make of the argument the apostle sets forth in those chapters, noting he is speaking in the Prison Epistles where the subject is stated right where we could expect it to be, at the beginning:

2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

which immediately connects this church, not with the covenents and promises of Israel, not to a graphed in peoples, not to a choosing after the world began, but to a choosing that occurred 'before the foundation of the world':

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world

back to the very first portion of instruction we were to have learned before leaving on to the followiing epistles, such as Timonthy's, because they partain exclusively to heavenly places.

But to continue with what we already learned in 2 Tim, let us not forget what it was:

2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Of course, the quote of Revelation definately brings Israel back into the outworking of God, as it pertains especially to the overcoming 144,000 out of the listed tribes.

Quite frankly, the earth and the blessings of an earthly people called into Israel is not to be found in the Prison Epistles. They are written to the church, His body. They are the first to do so.

Acts period was to the Jew first, then to the gentiles, for the hope of Israel. The gentile was without God and had no hope in the world. That is what is written thoroughly and I acknolwedge that it is.


Being as that so many here mention there is only one Gospel, perhaps I can be shown some verses stating there is only one good news message to be hearalded?

Just because a verse intertains a word we look for, does not givce us the right to pull from their
God breathed context. The words are placed into His contextual understanding and should probably remain where the Lord places them, and for the reasons given. If we stay close to what is writte we shall surely keep close to the truth.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Splitting heirs!!! I kove that!! [pound] [pound] [thumbsup2]

quote:
Are you adopted into the family which has it's hopes and callings in the kingdom on the earth?
Yes as a matter of fact I am because I am part of the Body of Jesus the Christ who is an heir of David.

2 Timothy 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

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epouraniois
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I can't really answer the question about how far people dig into the word of truth. I am more interested in why it is written to the church only revealed in the Prison Epistles instructing that new necessity for the word of truth must be now rightly divided because of this great Mystery which had been a secret, of why the apostle stopped going to the Jew first, why only to the gentiles to reveal this church called His body, and why Paul was unable to heal even his closest companions in the Lord. You are welcome to your opinions, not a problem. How bout them Scriptures though?

Are you adopted into the family which has it's hopes and callings in the kingdom on the earth? Or do you find your hope and calling in heavenly places as the church His body? Did God join these two places, or do we find a new heaven and a new earth, with different callings having different hopes to the end that all families both in heaven anbd in earth are filled. Yes, there is a family in heaven, and one He sees as already being with Him there, 'in the fulness of times', Eph 1:10.

What is the hope of your calling? It must be written somewhere. I know where mine is written. Is there more than one? Are any of them different than the others? Do certain words immenate from the divine province of God breathed truth through the written word, or is everything given in obscurity?

Do some people have it written for them that they wil manifest with Christ when He manifest, having their hope in heavenly places?

Do some have their letters written to explain their hope to be amongst the Lord here on the earth in resurrection?

And finally, it is written that some will find their inheritance in the New Jerusalem?

If so, then the deciding factor is God's sovereign election - it is written of at least three seperate inheritances, three different hopes, three disticnt callings and three corresponding shperes of blessings wherein each is called a firstborn by adoption. Do you think heaven and earth is the same thing in the Bible?

The three different spheres of blessings are each marked by specific words, like 'inheritance', 'hope', 'calling' and 'adoption', and written to very specific people. The apostles and prophets say so. That means the Holy Spirit says so.

I am not revealing anything, Paul revealed the mystery. It's no secret anymore. It has been revealed. To say it was revealed before it was, and to place the hope of going to heavenly places to those during the Acts is against what is revealed by the apostle. So those who place themselves back there during the Acts ministry find plentious warnings in the Prison Epistles.

In order to arrive at the position that one can acknowledge the hope of his calling, it is necessary to respect the various callings, permit Israel to be Israel, to receive the stated purpose of the Acts and why any gentiles were graphed in at all, seeing what their hope was being graphed into that hewn down tree.

As far as I can tell, nothing comes into existance by its own will, but by the Lord calling it into it's rightful place.

The gifts and callings are without change of mind.

Please quote what is the hope of your calling.

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WhiteEagle
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When Jesus was dying on the cross between two thieves. One of the thieves found his way into Paradise.

All he needed was Jesus.

We don't know which dispensation you would put him into (the thief), but God doesn't care about that or how you wish to pervert the scriptures.

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The Acts tells of this story, which is now in abayence, at which time Eph 3:9 is in view, being the late portion of the doctrine set before the believers after Acts.

What is your point with all this dispensationalism? How many people would follow your long-winded reasonings and twisting logic to find Salvation?

It's quite a long and convuluted digression away from Christ. All your focus in on who the truth pertains to, and how we shouldn't take parts of the Bible to ourselves if it's not directed to us.

What good is this kind of doctrine? What your aim in teaching and writing about it? Do you want to see people come to Christ or to your doctrine?

Christ is not in your doctrine. Everything is about splitting heirs. Pun intended.

Me thinks you have too much time on your hands.

And your doctrine is wrong wrong wrong and not of God.

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epouraniois
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quote:
The Gentiles are grafted in among the branches that they can partake of the root...
and fatness what? OF THE TREE, THE TREE. But the tree did not obtain.


There is a word only used once. It is in the Prison Epistles alone. The closest we have to this word in the OT is also translated by this one Greek word. This word is in the LXX twice, so it is not strickly an OT word, the argument goes, being that the OT was Hebrew/Chaldean.

Irregardless, the placemings are critical as they speak to different peoples (The Lord to Israel & the apostle a prisoner of Christ Jesus for you gentiles).

orthos and temnō are the two which form the one word orthotomeō, used for 'handling aright' and 'cutting straight' paths (hodous)see Heb 12:13.


Pro 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Here, both OT placings provide that it is God who is directing His ways to His people, yet it is truth for today as well. This is non dispensational truth. All truth is truth, but some truth is only true as to who it obtains, the time of obtaining, and it aim in obtainment. This truth obtains to all.

Pro 11:5 The righteousness of the perfect shall direct his way: but the wicked shall fall by his own wickedness.

Now comes a greater contrast than above, for it is to another calling altogether. -

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Striking is the effect that when Israel is in view, they have 'it is written' to direct their paths, but the church here has no such thing. This church had not been revealed before. It is not in the OT. It is untrackable (Eph 3:8). This is dispensational truth. It cannot be true of anyone to whom never read it, never needed to read it, had no differences to rightly divide, because it was only Israel, and she had 'it is written'.


Today the word of truth must be righly divided.

Also in this instruction we find that not only is it the rightly dividing of truth in view, God's truth, but that the individual must do the dividing of it. "Study" is translated "Edeavoring" in Eph 4:3.


The members of this church have no OT 'it is written', as it was all written to Israel. It is for us to read, but it was written to Israel. It was written as a lamp to guide them.

Everything that happened in the Acts period, where it was always 'to the Jew first', EVERYTHING was in the OT wherein they had 'it is written' to guide them.

Nothing of 'it is written' can be found to guide the members of the church revealed in the prison epistles. Ours is not Israel's hope and calling. The churches during the Acts had 'it is written'. The church His body revealed only after Acts 28:25-28 have nothing written.

This new church revealed as the mystery (body)is not the same as any church which came before, any church to whom 'it is written' belongs. This church body has it's resurrected citizenship in heavenly places. The graphed in gentiles during Acts had their hope in Israel's hope. Their hope and calling has a citizenship not in heavenly places, but in the earth. On the earth. Not the same, therefore it is by that which differs we discover truth, we rightly divide, noting what was written to whom and when and for what purpose.

Now those believing Jews and Gentiles, remember, it was to the Jew first, those believer were all a firstfruit. Nothing bad became of them when they were used to provoke Israel and Israel falls. They became a firstfruit, and the firstfuits are holy.

But there are no gentiles today who can fall under this catagory of firstfruits. Today Genitles role is not to provoke Israel and everyone isn't healed when they ask a believer. That administration closed, see Mark 16:20. Acts is the record of that administration wherein 'it is written' is the course:


Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree

Mat 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leather girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
()
Mat 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Mat 3:6 And were baptized... confessing their sins.
Mat 3:7 But...the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Mat 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Mat 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.


Mar 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

The Acts tells of this story, which is now in abayence, at which time Eph 3:9 is in view, being the late portion of the doctrine set before the believers after Acts.

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epouraniois
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Personally, I have to read everything again and again. That is how the Lord seems to reveal it. but since you refuse, then lets look at your understanding:
quote:
If you boast against a branch.. then you are not part of the root... the root is not in you... you are being held up by the graft but no fruit will come and guess what happens to branches from which no fruit comes???
This reads quite differently than the verse, lets pleaase look at the verse:

Rom 11:18 ..But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

They were supposed to bear the root, for the strengthening of the tree, and not the root to bear them.

Boast is the word Glory. They weren't to have any glory at all, no boasting, no fruit. They were to provoke the tree. Supporting the goal of the root. First the root, then the fruit. Israel's fruit in the case before us.


Again, Gentiles were not expected to bear any fruit whatsoever. Israel was expected to bear her fruit. Gentiles were not permitted inside the wall. It was a partition. They could not even see over it. They sought to kill Paul for the very thought of Paul bringing a gentile beyond the middle wall of partition.

What will the gentiles say about this being graphed into the true tree? Lets read it to see:

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

We also read that all in Asia had heard the word of the Lord Jesus, Paul himself preached there for two years:

Act 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.

Act 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands

Yet, after the Salvation is sent to the nations the apostle has to remind them that they were without God in the world, because they were gentiles.
Eph. 2:11-12.

The entire tree was, as it is written, hewn down, cut down, rooted up.

2Ti 1:15 This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me

Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

Isa 5:4 What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it?

The prison epistles alone speak of all things being put under His feet, both in heaven and in earth. The prison epistles alone speak of being seated with Christ there where He is, in the heavenly places. The prison epistles were written after Acts 28:28. Paul says it is a new revelation.

Do you not believe it is written, revealed revelation which followed after, in the prison epistles, of going to heaven in resurrection and being seated with Christ there? If so, it must be admitted that there is not one word of it during the Acts, for they were made partakers of Israel's spiritual things. Not her physical things. And Israel's spiritual things don't have any words concerning blessings in heavenly places. But the church revealed after the Salvation of God is sent to the nations does.

Can we maybe pretend for a moment that God actually uses metephores that make sense, and that when a tree is cut down, whatever was graphed into the tree must also fall to the ground with it?

That when the apostles writes that he must leave those things behind, that he actually means what he is writing, that he is an apostle speaking those things he claims, namely that he had by revelation received this mystery which has to do with a church body never revealed in Scripture before, and this church is called a male which is His body, wherein the inheritance is in heavenly places - both in charactor and shpere - not graphed into the tree called Israel whose inheritance in earthly in charator and sphere of blessings?


Is it not better to simply believe all that is written, acknowledging at which place time and people are being written to, and what happened then?

Should we seek forever to remove our understanding from the word of God and acknowledge what is written for our learning? The understanding of God is revealed therein.

Luk 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

How do we get to know Him? Only through His Word.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
The root was not presented in Figure for it to bear the gentiles. Read it again and see if the verse says the root was to bear the gentiles.
I do not need to read it again. Gentiles were grafted in among the cultivated branches. Grafted into what???? The rootstock. The root would produce and from their wild branch cultivated fruit. HOLY fruit.

John 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

We are IN Christ and Christ is IN us. We are abiding in each other. It is a two become one relationship.

I do not see why it is so hard to understand.

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Who is the root?

The Gentiles are grafted in among the branches that they can partake of the root...

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

If you boast against a branch.. then you are not part of the root... the root is not in you... you are being held up by the graft but no fruit will come and guess what happens to branches from which no fruit comes???

Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

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The root was not presented in Figure for it to bear the gentiles. Read it again and see if the verse says the root was to bear the gentiles.
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quote:
What does this mean?

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches: but if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

It has the idea that the root is not there to bear, or to prop up the un natural branches. We know the tree was hewn down as per prophecy and historical facts.


The root not there???? We most definetly do not see the same olive tree.

In nature, when a tree is grown through grafting..there is a root stock. The husbandman grafts to the root stock the type of tree that he wants to grow and that branch is what determins the fruit produced.

This is contrary to the way in which the uncultivate wild olive gentile branch is grafted in AMONG the branches of the cultivated olive. Wild olives produce poor fruit... there is no oil in the fruit to speak of. But when God grafts the wild olive branch that has not been cultivated into the root stock that he is/ been cultivating, it is not a wild olive that grows but a cultivated one because the root stock comes forth through it, which is contrary to nature. Thus a wild olive branch produces the fruit of a cultivated olive tree because it is not only (born by the root) but it bears the root.

It is not a good thing to not bear the root... if you are one that has been grafted in contrary to nature!!!!


quote:


The bride will come down from heaven,

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


The church have spiritual blessing in heavenly places, called and chosen to the inheritance of the saints in light, who manifest with Christ when He manifests in glory are never called a she, a her, a woman, a bride, a wife, a city, but always called a man, His body, a full grown male even anēr, Greek and is translated 'husband' 5 times in the next chapter alone.

You want to make the church HIS body and not HIS bride. The bride and the husband are ONE body... Christ in you and you in HIM... it is a marriage relationship.

In Romans the church is the body and the bride:

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

In Ephesians the church is the body and the bride! This IS the MYSTERY!

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Christ is a Son of Judah and of David and Christ has an inheritiance in Abraham. Of things earthly... land, and people and reign.

We are co-heir with Christ in HIS inheritiance. This occurs 2 ways. We are heirs with him as his body and bride... but also we are heirs with him as his adopted brother (sons of God). Just as Ephrahim is heir with Judah. Called to inheiritance through the 12 sons of Jacob.


What God hath joined together, let no man separate!

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becauseHElives
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Who is the gospel for?

Whosoever will may come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. -- Rev. 22:17

"Come unto me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matt. 11:28).

The very fact of invitation implies the choice of acceptance or rejection.

Concerning the exercise of the will, Jesus said, "If any man (note any man, not just those predestined) willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself" (John 7:17). Thus, doing and knowing the teaching of Christ is a matter of the human will.

GRACE AND THE HUMAN WILL
In writing to Titus, Paul affirmed that "...the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present world" (Tit. 2:11-12).

Please observe from this passage

(1) that God's grace has appeared to all men,

(2) that it brings salvation and

(3) it teaches. If God's grace has been made available to all men why aren't all men saved?

The answer, by implication is simple! All men have not exercised their wills to embrace the teaching of grace, and respond favorably to it.

SALVATION INVOLVES THE TOTAL MAN
By creative design, God made man an intellectual, emotional and volitional creature. With the intellect man is capable of receiving and understanding factual information. With his emotions, he is capable of being stirred and touched by what he receives. The volition or will of man enables him to act upon what he understands. The gospel message reaches the intellect, stirs the emotions and activates the will.

On the day of Pentecost we see an example of the intellect, emotions and will being reached. The apostle Peter presented evidence from the Old Testament Scriptures, from his miracles, and the resurrection which proved Jesus to be the son of God. He reached their minds by evidence and reasoning. Their hearts were stirred upon learning the truth about Christ. Upon inquiring, they were told what to do (Acts 2:38). Their wills were activated as they "gladly received the word and were baptized" (Acts 2:41).

GOD WANTS ALL TO BE SAVED
God is not aloof to man's salvation! God longs to save! He wants all men to come to the knowledge of truth (1 Timothy 2:4). "For God so loved the world, (not just a predestined few) that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life" (John 3:16).

Of God's longing to save, the apostle Peter said, "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance? (2 Peter 3:9). The Hebrew writer said of Jesus, "That he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb. 2:9).

God seeks men through the gospel. The Thessalonians were "called by the gospel" (2 Thess. 2:14). Those who are called are "chosen of God, a royal priesthood, a holy nation and a peculiar people" (1 Pet. 2:9). The called are those who "hear, believe and are baptized" (Acts 18:8). They have exercised their volition and freedom of choice!

WHOSOEVER WILL
Interestingly, the Bible ends with an invitation. Jesus said, "The Spirit (the Holy Spirit) and the bride (the church) say, come, and let him that heareth say, come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will let him take the water of life freely" (Revelation 22:17).

It is the work of the bride, the church, to issue that invitation to all men until Jesus comes. Calvinism in general, and predestination of individuals in particular would nullify that invitation.

God is moving toward you with a message of love, salvation and hope. Will you exercise your prerogative to hear, believe and obey it?

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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epouraniois
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quote:
This is going to far. Who are you to tell this sister that she has forsaken her calling?
Maybe. What if she is. Maybe telling it like it is would be what I am supposted to do. Its God's calling, we can't just choose to have two of them. Am I to not warn her of it? Somebody told me. Then I started to read and study. Sure enough. There is a church with a high calling in the heavenly places which is unassociated Israel and the earth. Read Ephesian and Colossians and Philippians and 2nd Timothy if you don't believe it.
read Eph. 4:3.

Therein follows the listed unity. It is all in heavenly places, which we learned reading the first three chapters of Ephesians. The entire epistle is speaking to a different calling:

Ch.4. v.1:


I therefore the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that yee walke worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called


That word 'vocation' is the Greek word translated and means, calling (klēsis).

G2821
κλῆσις
klēsis
klay'-sis
From a shorter form of G2564; an invitation (figuratively): - calling.

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling (klēsis)of God are without repentance.

1Co 7:20 Let every man abide in the same calling (klēsis)wherein he was called.

Paul says many things about calling, the various callings.

To realize that during the Acts there was a purpose for the un natural graphed in wild olives, as the Figure is used, but also they were to bear the root.

What does this mean?

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches: but if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

It has the idea that the root is not there to bear, or to prop up the un natural branches. We know the tree was hewn down as per prophecy and historical facts. Israel is Lo-ammi. But the bringing back of her will be 'like life from the dead'. She will again be Ammi, or, "My people". Her blessings are in the earth. Their is a marriage that takes place for the overcomers. This marriage is for the same people Israel as in the OT.

The bride will come down from heaven,

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.


The church have spiritual blessing in heavenly places, called and chosen to the inheritance of the saints in light, who manifest with Christ when He manifests in glory are never called a she, a her, a woman, a bride, a wife, a city, but always called a man, His body, a full grown male even anēr, Greek and is translated 'husband' 5 times in the next chapter alone.

G435
ἀνήρ
anēr
an'-ayr
A primary word (compare G444); a man (properly as an individual male): - fellow, husband, man, sir.


I am not speaking harshly against anyone. I am boldly speaking in love to make men/women see what is the fellowship of the mystery Eph 3:9

according to my calling

Eph 4:1
I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation or, calling, wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2
With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3
Endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Eph 4:13
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:
Eph 4:14
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
Eph 4:17
This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk


Eph 1:16
Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers,
Eph 1:17
That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18
The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23
Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.


I believe Paul speaks about this church as being far above all throughout these prison epistles, that Paul manifestly declares that this is not the same church body as had been ever previously revealed until it was given to Paul after what Paul says in Act 28:28, "Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. 29, And when he had said these words, the Jews departed"


Paul then enters his prison ministry, states he is a prisoner of Christ Jesus for the hope of you gentiles and reveals the mystery.

To deny this high calling can be nothing less than losing ones reward. Paul declares it. That this should be made manifest to you in Col 1:27-29, "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus"

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I had to get offline before my final statement above.

hereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to complete (fulfill) the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now


The word complete, or, fulfill, are both the same Greek word - plēroō.


G4137
πληρόω
plēroō
play-ro'-o
From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

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My posts have stated many times that the prayer, 'that ye may approve things that are excellent' is exactly the same as saying, 'approve, or try, the things that differ', but never shown how this is so.

I feel this is essential to realize before acknowledgment may be possible. Now, this one Greek word is translated 'much better', and, 'things that are excellent', derived from diaphero.


Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

There it is. Are you not 'much better', diaphero, than the birds?

Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.

Can you feel the sense of the word there? You are of 'more value', diaphero, than many sparrows.

1Co 15:41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.


Here is the same word again, this time translated 'differeth from'. All stars do not have the same brightness. One star 'differeth from', diaphero, another star in glory.

We can see that some thing are better, some things are different. Some things are more excellent.

In the prison epistles (written after Acts 28:28), the inspired apostles writes to the church which is His body:

Phi 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent, diaphero; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ

That ye may approve the things that are different, or more excellent.


Heb 1:4 Christ Jesus had obtained a more excellent, diaphero name than angels.


The Lord obtained a different name than angels, a more more excellent name.

In the OT we find that Abraham was given a land but chose to dwell in tents. In the NT we learn the reason was because he desired a 'better country'. He didn't just say well Lord, I am fine with this, no, he wanted the best that God has to give because he believed God and it was counted unto him for righteousness:

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, a heavenly:
wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God:
for he hath prepared for them a city.

So this better country is a city, and in Revelation we find this city comes down from heaven. The whole letter written to the Hewbrews has the theme of specific things 'BETTER' than other things:

Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation


Heb 7:19 a better hope did

Heb 7:22 a better testament

Heb 8:6 a more excellent ministry...a better covenant...established upon better promises.

Heb 9:23 better sacrifices

Heb 10:34 a better and an enduring substance

Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country

Heb 11:35 a better resurrection

Heb 11:40 some better thing

Heb 12:24 new covenant...that speaketh better things than that of Abel

But even in their highest hopes and dreams they never imagined or read about going to heaven to be with the Lord as part of His body there.


We must be very cautious here, for do not get me wrong. All glory is Gods. The word glory there is the word for boasting. Glory is not the churchs', not the Hebrews', and not the un naturally graphed in gentiles'. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And without God giving us His righteousness, none could approach to a Holy and Righteous God. The church body is not better than the kingdom body. But there are differences.


Many would say that the climax of the Bible truth would be the gospels. And that sounds good and correct, but is this sound doctrine? What does the Bible say? In the first chapter of Acts we read:


The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach
Act 1:1


Christ Jesus said "It is Finished". He accomplished all that which He was sent to do. But He only began to teach truth. He did not teach "all truth". He says so:

Reading John 16:12, "I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now."

The Lord spoke this to the Hebrews, to His people. Well, when are going to tell "all truth"? word began to be spoken


When Lord, when will you tell us "all truth"?

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into "all truth"

The Lord can't reveal all truth, He says, "you can't bear it".

What was this all truth? We find that in the seed of Abraham were all nations to be blessed. If Israel had been provoked to emulation by those graphed in gentiles, there was no way any of them would have been blessed with Abraham. No. The Hebrew nation, as the nation of promise was to do exactly that, go out and bless the nations. It was written no where that by being blessed by Israel doing that which is her calling, any non Jews would become members of Israel.

In fact, what does the Bible say? Speaking to the Jews, Paul says:

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes


The gentiles were enemies. This was not a natural grafting into the true tree. The gentiles were supposed to bear the root, that is, they were supposed to work with the root that the tree might bear her fruit and be saved. There was no expectation for the gentiles. They had no word of salvation sent to them during that time. There was only one reason that any gentile person were permitted to stand outside the synagogue and hear the word after the Jews stood up and preached each Sabbath as they always had done. To provoke Israel.


The salvation was not sent to the gentiles until all Israel had heard. The hope and calling that was then revealed is distinct from anything ever written or revealed before. Paul says it a new revelation that was a secret. That it was to gentiles and not to Israel.

In all the letters written after Acts, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1&2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, the word preist is not mentioned once. Christ as king is not mentioned once. Christ as preist is not mentioned once.

The revelation of the mystery reveals not only a family that will inherit heaven, but an entirely new gospel where Christ fills all things both in heaven and on earth. The church has every blessing which is spiritual because their citizenship is in heaven. Israel's blessings are in the earth.


And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
That ye may approve things that are excellent, diaphero; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ

Phi 1:9,10

That ye may approve the things that are different

Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Phi 3:13-15

When Lord, when will you teach "all truth"?

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to complete the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labor, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily."
Col 1:25-29

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WhiteEagle
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The Gospel is simple. Even a little child can understand it. Paul writes that God chose to reach people through the foolishness of preaching the Gospel.
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yahsway
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HFHS, thanks for your post. and WhiteEagle, I couldn't agree more about your statement about Paul and his Jewishness. My husband, who is a Jewish believer in Jesus the Christ has said many times that he is "complete" in Him/Jesus. He is a Jew, saved by Grace, saved by His God's only begotten Son, Jesus, who is the Lion from the tribe of Judah!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I am very glad you are not Sister. If it had been made to me I probably would not have been either. But I am tired of seeing the condescending remarks to others.
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WhiteEagle
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Linda,

He seems to have an entirely "new" take on the scriptures and I'm not offended by his statements as I know they are NOT true.

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
Believers do not have to lay again the foundations...Heb6:1

You have forsaken your claim to the high calling because you have attached yourself to a tree that has been hewn down, it's people outcast.

This next part is very difficult for you to receive, but try to pay close attention to the basic Biblicak precepts. I mean no disrespect, but the truth must be wieghed:


What was the hope of those gentiles who were made partakers of Israels spiritual things? Well, it was to be made part of Israel's spiritual things, and that is your claim.


However, Israel has never had the hope of calling to go to heaven to be with the Lord there where He is far above all.


The hope of going to heaven is NEVER a hope of Israel. NEVER made known until after Acts closed with the quote of Isiaha regarding their blindness.


I believe that it is God's choosing, not ours.

I do not believe it is written that we can choose.

The high calling is not revealed until after the kingdom hope of Israel is judiciously removed, AND THEN The Salvation of God is sent to the gentiles.

THEN AFTER THAT Paul says he is given a new revelation, that even himself, in order to press on to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, was to put away his Jewishness.

He could not press for the mark while retaining the divisions of the Acts period calling and the hopes that belong to that administration.

Israel's spiritual gifts are in one of two places.
On the earth.
In New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven to the earth.

The church does not have this as their hope, for it is far above all where Christ sitteth.


God does not mix His metaphores. He keeps things in their rightfull place and instructs us to acknoweldge this by rightly dividing the word of truth.

He instructs the church to seek the best things. This means that some things are not the best things.

You are wrong about Paul, he didn't have to give up his Jewishness. He was enhancing it. That's what the Gospel is about for the Jew first, then to the Greek.

The law was the schoolmaster, and now with Christ one isn't bound to the Law any longer, as the Law always brings death, because no human being could keep it. All are under the Law of Grace.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
You have forsaken your claim to the high calling because you have attached yourself to a tree that has been hewn down, it's people outcast.

This next part is very difficult for you to receive, but try to pay close attention to the basic Biblicak precepts. I mean no disrespect, but the truth must be wieghed:

This is going to far. Who are you to tell this sister that she has forsaken her calling?

Does it ever occur to you that some here have weighed the truth and come up with a different measure than you?

You are not the only one here who reads their Bible and you are not the only one here whom the Holy Spirit teaches. Some of us will never divide the Bible as you do, because we believe that the way you divide it is in error and we believe that the Holy Spirit has taught us that; it is very difficult to deal with your condescending statements such as the one above.

I do not either mean to disrespect you, but surely you can contribute to threads without your contribution in every thread amounting to your telling people that they do not get it and cannot get it until they learn to divide the Bible as you do.

It would be one thing if there were a bunch here who subscribed to convenant theology. That would be a different subject all together, but that is not the case. I cant think of even one here who believes that way. I personally do not feel that it benefits anyone that every thread be about the supposed ignorance of those who believe that the church that is the bride and body of Christ began at Pentecost and not in Acts 28! Or that there is ONE Gospel not 3!!!

The fig was cursed; The fig withered

This is not a fig!

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

This tree will never be hewn down!

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

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The verses you quote are building upon that foundation and are part of the basic gospel. But you can't have the quickening of the believer unless one has the Foundation first ...


Believers do not have to lay again the foundations...Heb6:1

You have forsaken your claim to the high calling because you have attached yourself to a tree that has been hewn down, it's people outcast.

This next part is very difficult for you to receive, but try to pay close attention to the basic Biblicak precepts. I mean no disrespect, but the truth must be wieghed:


What was the hope of those gentiles who were made partakers of Israels spiritual things? Well, it was to be made part of Israel's spiritual things, and that is your claim.


However, Israel has never had the hope of calling to go to heaven to be with the Lord there where He is far above all.


The hope of going to heaven is NEVER a hope of Israel. NEVER made known until after Acts closed with the quote of Isiaha regarding their blindness.


I believe that it is God's choosing, not ours.

I do not believe it is written that we can choose.

The high calling is not revealed until after the kingdom hope of Israel is judiciously removed, AND THEN The Salvation of God is sent to the gentiles.

THEN AFTER THAT Paul says he is given a new revelation, that even himself, in order to press on to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus, was to put away his Jewishness.

He could not press for the mark while retaining the divisions of the Acts period calling and the hopes that belong to that administration.

Israel's spiritual gifts are in one of two places.
On the earth.
In New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven to the earth.

The church does not have this as their hope, for it is far above all where Christ sitteth.


God does not mix His metaphores. He keeps things in their rightfull place and instructs us to acknoweldge this by rightly dividing the word of truth.

He instructs the church to seek the best things. This means that some things are not the best things.

There must then, be differences. What are they?


Let’s look at some mighty differences:

PROPHETIC
SPOKEN about since the world began
(Luke 1:68-70; Acts 3:21-24)

MYSTERY
Kept SECRET, hidden since the world began
(Romans 16:25; Ephesians 3:5,9; Colossians 1:26)


PROPHETIC
Focus is THE EARTH
(Genesis 1:28, 9:1, 13:14-17; Deuteronomy 11:21; Isaiah 11:9; Jeremiah 23:5; Psalms 37:9-11; Matthew 5:5; Matthew 6:10)

MYSTERY
Focus is THE HEAVENLY PLACES
(Ephesians 1:3, 2:6; Philippians 3:20; Colossians 3:1-4)


PROPHETIC
Jesus Christ is THE KING of Israel and the whole world
(Isaiah 9:6-7; Daniel 7:13-14; Zachariah14:9, 16; Matthew 2:2; John 1:49; Luke 1:31-33)

MYSTERY
Jesus Christ is THE HEAD of the church, the body of Christ
(Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18)


PROPHETIC
ISRAEL is God's chosen nation and will be given supremacy over all nations
(Deuteronomy 7:6, 28:13; Isaiah 6:1-5; Matthew 10:5-10;
Romans 9:6)

MYSTERY
In the Body of Christ, there is neither Jew nor Gentile (Romans 10:12, 3:22; Ephesians 2:16-17)


PROPHETIC
Redeemed Israel to rule and reign with Christ on the earth
(Isaiah 62:1-4; Ezekiel 37:21-28; Exodus 19:4-6; Revelation 5:10)

MYSTERY
The Body of Christ to rule and reign with Christ in the heavenlies
(Ephesians 2:6, 14-16, 3:6, Philippians 3:20; 1Corinthians 6:3)


PROPHETIC
Gentiles to be blessed through Israel's RISE to kingdom glory
(Genesis 12:1-3; Isaiah 61:6-9; Zechariah 8:13-23)

MYSTERY
Gentiles blessed through THE FALL of Israel
(Romans 11:11,12,15; Acts 28:27-28)


PROPHETIC
The chief Apostle is Peter
(Matthew 16:18-19; Acts 1:15, 2:14)

MYSTERY
Paul is the Apostle for this age of grace
(Romans 11:13; Ephesians 3:1; 1Timothy 2:5-7)


PROPHETIC
The number 12 is associated with Israel
(Matthew 19:28; Revelation 7:4-8)

MYSTERY
ONE is the number for the Body of Christ
(Ephesians 4:3-4)


PROPHETIC
Physical and spiritual baptism
(Exodus 29:1-7; Matthew 3:2-7, 28:19-20; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:32; Ezekiel 36:25-27; Matthew 3:11; Acts 1:5,8)

MYSTERY
Spiritual baptism only
(Ephesians 4:4; Eph 5:26)


PROPHETIC
Physical and spiritual circumcision
(Genesis 17:9-14; Luke 2:21; Deuteronomy 30:6)

MYSTERY
Spiritual circumcision only
(Colossians 2:11-13; Romans 6:1-6)


PROPHETIC
Atonement yet FUTURE
(Acts 3:19; Matthew 25:31-34; Romans 11:25-27)

MYSTERY
Atonement NOW
(Romans 5:11; Colossians 2:13-14)


PROPHETIC
The Goal: The God of Heaven to set up the Kingdom of Heaven on earth, Christ to have preeminence
(Deuteronomy 11:21; Daniel 2:44; Matthew 25:34)

MYSTERY
The Goal: To form a spiritual body of believers perfectly conformed to the image of Christ and through whom Christ will have the preeminence in the heavenly places
(Romans 8:29; Colossians 1:16)


PROPHETIC
This has been God's purpose FROM the foundation of the world
(Matthew 25:34)

MYSTERY
This has been God's purpose from BEFORE the foundation of the world
(Ephesians 1:4, 3:11)


PROPHETIC
This program has been temporarily DELAYED
(Romans 9-11)

MYSTERY
This program is NOW in effect
(Ephesians 3:1-11; Colossians 1:24-27)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles called by the Lord while He was on the earth
(Matthew 10:1-4)

MYSTERY
Paul called to be an apostle from the ascended Lord
(Acts 9:1ff; 1Corinthians 15:8-10)


PROPHETIC
The apostleship of the 12 was to Israel alone, and then to Israel first
(Matthew 10 ff, Acts 3:25,26)

MYSTERY
Paul was commissioned as "the apostle of the Gentiles" because now the program of God is different
(Romans 11:13; Ephesians 3:1-9)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles, under their commission, sought to bring the nation of Israel to repentance in view of them crucifying their Christ. They indicted them for the crime but offered them the forgiveness and blessing of God so they could participate in Israel's "at hand" kingdom
(Acts 3:12-26, 5:27-32)

MYSTERY
Paul, under his commission, announced that Israel had fallen and that God has temporarily set Israel's program aside and Israel's fullness and kingdom won't come until after the fullness of the Gentiles come in
(Romans 11:11-25)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles announced to Israel that her last days were present. They lived in the days that all the prophets from Samuel and after had foretold of
(Acts 2:16-21, 3:24)

MYSTERY
Paul announced that God is now long-suffering and He had set Israel and the things on her time schedule aside and that the times and seasons are not being fulfilled now in this dispensation of grace
(Romans 11:11-25, 1Thessalonians 5:1-11; 2Thessalonians 3:1-6)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles under their commission operated on a God established distinction existing between the Jews and Gentiles
(Numbers 23:9; Matthew 10:5-7, 15:21-28; Acts 3:25,26)

MYSTERY
Paul under his commission declares that the "time past" distinction is now done away and the middle wall of partition is broken down, God having made both one. Now there is no difference
(2 Corinthians 5:14-19, Ephesians 2:11-14)


PROPHETIC
The 12 apostles operated with the law still in view along with the rudiments of the world that it employed
(Matthew 5:17-19, 23:1-3 James 2:10, Matthew 28:20)


MYSTERY
Paul is given to declare to us that God has not put us under the law, but under grace and that today He is not treating us as children under the law with the rudiments of the world
(Romans 6:14; Galatians 4:1-11; Colossians 2:8-17; Romans 7:4-6)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles during the Lord's earthly ministry never understood or appreciated the meaning or significance of Jesus Christ's death and resurrection (Matthew 16:21-23; Luke 9:43-45,18:31-34) Following Christ's resurrection and the 40 day Bible seminar they had from Him they understood the necessity of Christ's suffering and the benefits received from it, as it pertained to the establishment of Israel's kingdom glory
(Luke 24:25-27, 44-49, Acts 1:1-2, 2:22-36, 3:12-21, 4:8-12)

MYSTERY
To Paul God committed the full meaning and significance of the cross of Christ. He preached the cross and Christ crucified. The good news about His death, burial and resurrection - proclaiming it in all its glory as "the power of God and the wisdom of God." Also to Paul was committed the testimony concerning Christ giving Himself a ransom for all men
(1Corinthians 1:18, 23; 1Timothy 2:1-7; 1Corinthians 2:6-8; Ephesians 1:8-10)


PROPHETIC
The 12 Apostles were commissioned in their apostleship to bring Israel's rebelliousness to a head and in doing so vindicate the outpouring of God's wrath upon that generation
(Matthew 23:29-36; Luke 11:45-51)

MYSTERY
Paul was commissioned to proclaim that God is now longsuffering and is extending mercy and grace to all in spite of Israel's climactic rebelliousness.
(Romans 11:28-36)


"...that in all things He might have the preeminence ..". (Colossians 1:18)
It is by means of these two programs that the Lord Jesus Christ will have the preeminence on the earth and in the heavenly places.

Rightly Dividing cuts straight the word of God in those places where God has directed His paths, submitting to all Scripture, honoring that which is different.

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
As to the gospel.

What about all the gospels that don't even include the death and resurrection, or of reconciliation by the blood on the cross. Are those truth for today when they lack these components?

I think the gospel which allows one to have the good news of Christ quickening the believer even now, to be dead to this flesh and to know the power of His resurrection in their life right now is quite a bit different than than the gospel that only tells the Jew to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

That's just me, I realize everyone doesn't see the Bible messages in the same way. This is why we prayerfully study, that God may continue to reveal Himself to the end that we may know Him.

'Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.' Phi 3:13-14

Those scriptures are a piece of the the Gospel as well as the resurrection and death of Christ.

Paul and Peter write about foundations as well as Jesus spoke of foundations. "he who builds his house about the sand..." The cornerstone, the basic of Salvation as foundation and going onto the meat.." (those quotes ring any bells?)

Foundations and building up. those words are used frequently by the new testament writers and by Jesus.

Salvation by the atonement of Jesus Christ who is the Son of God who died for the world's sins and rose again the 3rd day to eternal life with a new body and ascended to sit on the Father's right hand and who came to save the world from sin to those who believe in Him... is the Foundation of the gospel.

The verses you quote are building upon that foundation and are part of the basic gospel. But you can't have the quickening of the believer unless one has the Foundation first and we can't be pressing on to the mark of the high calling without the Foundation first, which is Jesus Christ the Cornerstone.

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
How is it that a Christian can claim Israel's physical or spiritual blessings? I don't understand. Are you saying we can tell if a person is faithful by their pocketbook like in Jobs day, when they believed him to be in deep sin because he was losing his physical blessings?

I must be really far from God if that is the case, because I have nothing anymore. I didn't think that is how we measured a persons standings anymore.


As to the gospel.

What about all the gospels that don't even include the death and resurrection, or of reconciliation by the blood on the cross. Are those truth for today when they lack these components?

I think the gospel which allows one to have the good news of Christ quickening the believer even now, to be dead to this flesh and to know the power of His resurrection in their life right now is quite a bit different than than the gospel that only tells the Jew to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

That's just me, I realize everyone doesn't see the Bible messages in the same way. This is why we prayerfully study, that God may continue to reveal Himself to the end that we may know Him.

'Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.' Phi 3:13-14

I've just finished reading the book of Romans. Paul lays it out quite well.
Romans 15:8-10 "Now I say that Christ has become a servant of the circumcised on behalf of the truth of God, to confirm the promises to the fathers, and so that Gentiles may glorify God for His mercy. As it is written: Therefore will I praise you among the Gentiles, and I will sing psalms in your name Again it says:rejoice you Gentiles, with His people."


Romans 11:11-12 "I ask then, have they(Jews) stumbled so as to fall? Absolutely not! On the contrary, by their stumbling salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel jealous. Now if their stumbling brings riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full number bring!"

Romans 4:12.13 (THIS GIVES THE SCRIPTURE TO BACK UP THE BLESSINGS FOR A CHRISTIAN AS WELL AS JEW)
" And he became the father of the circumcised, not only to those who are circumcised, but also to those who follow in the footsteps of the faith our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.
For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants, that he would inherit the world was not through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith."

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How is it that a Christian can claim Israel's physical or spiritual blessings? I don't understand. Are you saying we can tell if a person is faithful by their pocketbook like in Jobs day, when they believed him to be in deep sin because he was losing his physical blessings?

I must be really far from God if that is the case, because I have nothing anymore. I didn't think that is how we measured a persons standings anymore.


As to the gospel.

What about all the gospels that don't even include the death and resurrection, or of reconciliation by the blood on the cross. Are those truth for today when they lack these components?

I think the gospel which allows one to have the good news of Christ quickening the believer even now, to be dead to this flesh and to know the power of His resurrection in their life right now is quite a bit different than than the gospel that only tells the Jew to repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

That's just me, I realize everyone doesn't see the Bible messages in the same way. This is why we prayerfully study, that God may continue to reveal Himself to the end that we may know Him.

'Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.' Phi 3:13-14

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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
We can assess fairly accurately the calling of Israel as we read Deuteronomy 28.

‘Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store’ (Deut. 28:3-5).

There is not the slightest warrant today that a Christian farmer can claim these blessings. It would be impossible and undispensational to attempt to gauge the spiritual stature of a Christian farmer or business man to-day by the number of his cattle, or by the stock he carries in his store.

The two references, above, that stand out are Galatians 3:14 and Ephesians 1:3.

Under Galatians 3:14 it is clear that the gospel blessings enjoyed during the Acts, were not associated with any mystery that had never before been revealed, but were traceable back to the promise of God made to Abraham. This is true of the great foundation doctrine of justification by faith. When we turn however to Ephesians 1:3, we are presented with an entirely different and new state of things.

A Christian farmer can claim those promises as he is a child of Abraham by faith. Paul states the children of Abraham are not the Jews just because they are Jews, but are the Jews who believe in Christ by faith. So the Gentile is also a child of Abraham and the promises by faith.

On the other hand you are correct in that the Jews with the Law and the promises of prosperity if they did the Law were more oriented toward the material goods, than the spiritual.

As Christians we are to be concerned more with the spiritual and eternal things.

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The Gospel is for all human beings whether Gentile or Jew, slave, or free. It's for everyone.

God only looks on one thing, are you covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ. Christ is the Mediator between God and humans. It's His blood shead for our sins and God's Grace that saves us.

That's the Gospel.

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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The Gospel was progessively revealed and manifest to different people at different times. That does not make for two Gospels or three or 15.

CHRIST IS THE GOSPEL!!!!! CHRIST IS THE GOOD NEWS!!

Gospels were preached, none can deny this. Surely you are not saying that the good news about Israel being blessed in the land and in stock and in store would be the very same gospel as the church being blessed in heavenly places with every blessing which is spiritual.

Gospel - Euaggelion
Blessing - Eulogia

One does not have to know Greek to see that these words are of the same family and connect to a similar idea. Blessings are therefore, intimately assosiated with the Gospels.

Rom. 15:29.
‘The fulness of the blessing’.
1 Cor. 10:16.
‘The cup of blessing’.
Gal. 3:14.
‘The blessing of Abraham’.
Eph. 1:3.
‘All spiritual blessings’.
Heb. 6:7.
‘The earth ... receiveth blessing’.
Heb. 12:17.
‘He would have inherited the blessing’.
Jas. 3:10.
‘Out of the same ... proceedeth blessing’.
1 Pet. 3:9.
‘That ye should inherit a blessing’.
Rev. 5:12,13; 7:12.
‘Blessing’ ascribed to the Lord.


Are they the same?
To the same people?
To the same sphere?


We can assess fairly accurately the calling of Israel as we read Deuteronomy 28.

‘Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store’ (Deut. 28:3-5).

There is not the slightest warrant today that a Christian farmer can claim these blessings. It would be impossible and undispensational to attempt to gauge the spiritual stature of a Christian farmer or business man to-day by the number of his cattle, or by the stock he carries in his store.

The two references, above, that stand out are Galatians 3:14 and Ephesians 1:3.

Under Galatians 3:14 it is clear that the gospel blessings enjoyed during the Acts, were not associated with any mystery that had never before been revealed, but were traceable back to the promise of God made to Abraham. This is true of the great foundation doctrine of justification by faith. When we turn however to Ephesians 1:3, we are presented with an entirely different and new state of things.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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The Gospel was progessively revealed and manifest to different people at different times. That does not make for two Gospels or three or 15.

CHRIST IS THE GOSPEL!!!!! CHRIST IS THE GOOD NEWS!!

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Let me ask another way perhaps, as it is not my intention to be taken as being rude:


Let us first of all tabulate the different "Gospels" that are spoken of in the N.T.

1. The gospel of the KINGDOM (Matt. 4:23).
2. The gospel of Jesus Christ . . . the KINGDOM of GOD (Mark 1:1,14).
3. The gospel preached to every creature with SIGNS FOLLOWING (Mark 16:15,17,18).
4. The gospel of GOD (Rom. 1:1).
5. The gospel of Hls SON (Rom. 1:9).
6. The gospel of CHRIST (Rom. 1:16).
7. My gospel (Rom. 2:16, 16:25, 2 Tim. 2:8).
8. The glorious gospel or the gospel of the GLORY of Christ (2 Cor. 4:4).
9. The gospel of the UNCIRCUMCISION (Gal. 2:7).
10. The gospel of the CIRCUMCISION (Gal. 2:7).
11. The gospel of the GRACE of GOD (Acts 20:24).
12. The gospel ofYouR SALVATION (Eph. 1:13).
13. The gospel of PEACE (Eph. 6:15).
14. The gospel of the GLORY of the BLESSED GOD (1 Tim. 1:11).
15. The EVERLASTING gospel (Rev. 14:6).


Now I am NOT saying there are 15 Gospels, but it would be harmful and untrue to sweep aside all the manifest differences that are here, and reckon them of little or no importance.

For example, The everlasting gospel, where the exhortation is to "fear", the reason is because the hour of "judgment" has come, and worship is directed to Him Who made heaven and earth, and the fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel. Not one word as to faith, no mention of Christ, no reference to redemption, no promise of life, no ressurection, no allusion to the forgiveness of sins. It is an extreme case certainly, but it nevertheless challenges us, and calls us to realize that what may be a "gospel" in one era may be no such thing in another.

The gospel of the kingdom (Matt. 4:23). It will be noted that this gospel of the kingdom is evidently expressed in verse 17 in the words "Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." It will further be noted that healing all manner of sickness and disease was its accompaniment. In Matthew ten, the "twelve" are commissioned to preach this gospel of the kingdom, and here we not only have the accompaniment of healing,

"Heal the sick, cleanse the Iepers, raise the dead, cast out demons" (verse 8).

but the restriction:

"Go not into the way of the Gentiles."

To say that these both teach the same good news would be hard pressed without adding and subtracting large word totals.

Among those thus commissioned in Matthew ten was "Simon, who is called Peter". There is no reason to doubt that he preached this gospel with signs following. Yet in Matthew sixteen, we find him making it manifest that he did not know that Christ should suffer and be killed (Matt. 16:21-23). So therefore we have in the gospel of the kingdom another example of a preaching with most evident Divine approval that had no place in it for "Jesus Christ and Him crucified". It would be as evil for anyone to preach this gospel of the kingdom today as it would be to preach the everlasting gospel-neither is a message for the present dispensation, and these two extreme cases make it abundantly clear that, apart from a knowledge of dispensational truth, i.e., at what point in God's administrative outworking applies to which good news message.

Even if we transfer our allegiance to Mark 16:15-20 and say that here this gospel must include the sacrifice of Christ, for the one offering had been made, here "every creature" cancels the limits imposed in Matthew ten, here "Go ye" countermands "Go not", yet we still have to face the fact that

1. "He that believeth AND IS BAPTIZED shall be saved" which is entirely opposite to the present-day teaching "He that believeth is saved", whether he sets forth his faith by subsequent baptism or not.

2. "These signs SHALL FOLLOW them that believe" and an honest reading of what those signs comprise, will compel most of us to admit that we have therefore no evidence of our salvation if Mark sixteen is dispensationally true for us today.

That such conditions obtained during the Acts of the Apostles it is easy to show.

1. Baptism preceding salvation:

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, FOR THE REMISSION of sins" (Acts 2:38).

2. They shall take up serpents:

"A viper . . . fastened on his hand . . . he felt no harm . . . others . . . which had diseases . . . came and were healed" (Acts 28:1-9).

Mark sixteen therefore was fulfilled during the Acts, and its terms obtained right up to the last chapter. In fact these conditions belong to "the hope of Israel", a hope expressed in Acts 1:6 and confessed in Acts 28:20, and which therefore is in the background of all the intervening ministry of the apostles as they sought to bring opportunity to the nation of Israel.

John the baptist preached the good news of Christ coming. But there is nothing we would call complete there today. There is no death burial and resurrection. There is no salvation sent to the nations there. Yet, it is good news for that particular administration as God moves His redemptive plan forward.

Peter, when he comes to Antioch - Faith overthrown and
Even Barnabas carried away
and there is then Peter's walk against the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL. Paul takes Peter to task.

"But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter. . . they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship" (Gal. 2:7-9).

Clearly there have been many good news' preached and sent by apostles from God bringing whatever would be appropriated by the Lord for the purpose of His Will and His Grace.

Some good news is about an earthly kingdom.
Some good news is about an heavenly city.
Some good news is about a citizenship in heavenly places far above all.
Some good news comes at a time when only one of the many items over the centuries is set forth, Worship God the Creator.
Some good news was about a boat.

They all point forward to one end, but they have their differences. Those things which are different are not the same.

Phi 1:9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
Phi 1:10 That ye may approve {be trying the} things that are excellent {different}; that ye may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ;
Phi 1:11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.


If any still be unconvinced, let them limit their beliefs to the gospel of Matthew! Find the three references to eternal life in that gospel, and then ask yourselves if you could, with a good conscience, make those three references, without modification, the gospel message today?

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Apparently John the baptist knew something of the Church/Bride of Christ as he knew that he was a friend of the groom.


quote:
Those of Corinth had no hope of going to heaven. It is not written. It was not revealed during that time.
2 Corinthians 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
No epouraniois , you are so wrong!

There is only one church, one Savior, one faith, one baptism, one Gospel, one people, one Head…

The Old pointed to the New, the old held many mysteries, types and shadows but in the New all mysteries and types and shadows are for our understanding, if we will but spend the time in prayer and study of His Word so that the Holy Spirit may reveal all things to us.

Yahweh is not a respecter of persons,

Some try to teach predestination, as if some from the beginning of time are foreordained to go to heaven or hell. This teaching present Yahweh as the worst kind of Hitler type ever.

While Yahweh knows the beginning till the end, who will receive His Greatest gift, Yahweh does not force a decision either way.

Some try to teach one group of people, a nation (America, Germany, England, ect. / religion, Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Word of Faith, Islam, Hindu ,ect / Races , Indian, Jew, Caucasian, ect, are special in some way because of who they are but Yeshua say there is no difference .

When Yahweh looks down upon mankind He is looking for one thing and one thing only , obedience to what mankind is doing with the Blood of His only begotten Son. (Is it applied to the heart (door post, the entrance to mankind soul.)

so you deny that the Bible teaches that some inherit the earth while others find their inheritance in the New Jerusalem, while still others are called to be seated with Christ in the heavenly places?

I don't understand.

Are you saying there is no difference between heaven and earth, that Christ did not go up far above all heavens, and there is no hope or calling in the heavenly places? no quality of choosing in the words the Holy Spirit has given the writers?

I don't understand.

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becauseHElives
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No epouraniois , you are so wrong!

There is only one church, one Savior, one faith, one baptism, one Gospel, one people, one Head…

The Old pointed to the New, the old held many mysteries, types and shadows but in the New all mysteries and types and shadows are for our understanding, if we will but spend the time in prayer and study of His Word so that the Holy Spirit may reveal all things to us.

Yahweh is not a respecter of persons,

Some try to teach predestination, as if some from the beginning of time are foreordained to go to heaven or hell. This teaching present Yahweh as the worst kind of Hitler type ever.

While Yahweh knows the beginning till the end, who will receive His Greatest gift, Yahweh does not force a decision either way.

Some try to teach one group of people, a nation (America, Germany, England, ect. / religion, Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, Word of Faith, Islam, Hindu ,ect / Races , Indian, Jew, Caucasian, ect, are special in some way because of who they are but Yeshua say there is no difference .

When Yahweh looks down upon mankind He is looking for one thing and one thing only , obedience to what mankind is doing with the Blood of His only begotten Son. (Is it applied to the heart (door post, the entrance to mankind soul.)

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
Exactly, Paul manifestly declares, right there in the first of Romans that he is speaking to Jews, to Israel who had received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name...to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

The bulk of the OT makes plain that one nation was called out from all others, that Israel would be the chosen channel of blessings to all nations. They alone had been prepared by God for this great honour, to receive the kingdom and their King Priest Lord. They were blessed above all nations. How so? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Then Paul further reminds them of what they know, being Jews, Because that, "when they {all nations/pre Abram} knew God, they glorified him not as Godhow the nation came about was that God gave them up...gave them up...gave them over..."

In all Paul's letters, he speaks to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles, as it is so written here.

And Paul preached for who? And who did John write for? for the church? what church? John wrote to non beievers long after other Gospels, writing even after Paul's prison epistles. Mathew, Mark and Luke wrote, we find in Acts one, that there were only one hunred twenty thereabouts believers, of which only two could fulfill the postional requirements of apostleship - having been witness, seen and heard - Did Paul preach for the hope of the church or for the hope of Israel in Romans? To whom does John say his Gospel is directed?

Could a gentile get any knowledge or blessing apart from Israel at that time? When was it that the kingdom hope of Israel stopped being preached, and the church which is His body begin being preached? Was there a climax, Biblically, that Paul writes as being by revelation and for the hope of you gentiles?


Most certainly, there is the eternal good news, and one day, God will be, as it is written, all and all. And this portion which we have testimony of will have run its course and God will reach the purpose and plan of creating the ages times, all to the good pleasure of His Will.

That is really GOOD NEWS.

NO offense meant: But to me; it seems like you are trying to dissect everything too far.
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Many times in the Old Testament the Lord refers to the Jews as "adulterous", He also talks of the Bridegroom and talks about a marriage relationship with the Jewish nation. I'll need time to look up the exact scriptures.

The Church as the Bride is not an entirely brand new concept, as the Lord considered the Jews as His Bride also in the Old Testament.

The relationship He had with the children of Abraham was still a "marriage type" covenant.

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epouraniois
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Exactly, Paul manifestly declares, right there in the first of Romans that he is speaking to Jews, to Israel who had received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name...to the Jew first, and also to the Greek

The bulk of the OT makes plain that one nation was called out from all others, that Israel would be the chosen channel of blessings to all nations. They alone had been prepared by God for this great honour, to receive the kingdom and their King Priest Lord. They were blessed above all nations. How so? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

Then Paul further reminds them of what they know, being Jews, Because that, "when they {all nations/pre Abram} knew God, they glorified him not as Godhow the nation came about was that God gave them up...gave them up...gave them over..."

In all Paul's letters, he speaks to the Jews first, then to the Gentiles, as it is so written here.

And Paul preached for who? And who did John write for? for the church? what church? John wrote to non beievers long after other Gospels, writing even after Paul's prison epistles. Mathew, Mark and Luke wrote, we find in Acts one, that there were only one hunred twenty thereabouts believers, of which only two could fulfill the postional requirements of apostleship - having been witness, seen and heard - Did Paul preach for the hope of the church or for the hope of Israel in Romans? To whom does John say his Gospel is directed?

Could a gentile get any knowledge or blessing apart from Israel at that time? When was it that the kingdom hope of Israel stopped being preached, and the church which is His body begin being preached? Was there a climax, Biblically, that Paul writes as being by revelation and for the hope of you gentiles?


Most certainly, there is the eternal good news, and one day, God will be, as it is written, all and all. And this portion which we have testimony of will have run its course and God will reach the purpose and plan of creating the ages times, all to the good pleasure of His Will.

That is really GOOD NEWS.

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Romans 1 ....

1. Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, set apart for the Good News of God,....

5. through whom we received grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, for his name's sake;....

13. Now I don't desire to have you unaware, brothers, that I often planned to come to you, and was hindered so far, that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among the rest of the Gentiles.......

16. For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, for it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; for the Jew first, and also for the Greek......

22. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

---------------------

2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Seeing as how the Jews knew nothing, not one word about the church His body, the church whose hope and calling is in heavenly places, then how could they possibly have been speaking about the church which would not be made known until it is revealed and sent by an apostle in 62 AD?

Explain to me how it is possible to know something before it is revealed, before, when it was hid in God from ages and from generations - and called THE MYSTERY, or, The Secret - Col 1:26.

I know, I know, that:

1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

But they, this, does not say nor mean that this body is the church revealed after this tree is hewn down, as per prophecy.

The church which is His body is not revealed until after Acts28:28 and is about Christ having a family never before revealed, called The Church, in the heavenly places.

Paul doesn't say it was revealed to the Jews, in fact, Paul says it was revealed among the Gentiles:

Eph 3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.


Those of Corinth had no hope of going to heaven. It is not written. It was not revealed during that time.

When it was revealed, in the last book written we find, "This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me" 2Ti 1:15


I realize you deny this, but the Bible clearly translates this word "create" and "creation" in every other place in the entire Bible, and so should we then here as well:

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make (ktizo)̄ in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Unless we have the authority to change the meaning of God's word, then this says Christ created in Himself of two, one new man. It is, by all Biblical standards, a new creation.

2Ti 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

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Epouranious: I know that we will likely never agree upon this and that is fine, but the fact that the Good News of Christ (Gospel) was given to different people at different times does not make it a different Gospel.

When Jesus said in Matthew 16... "I will build my church", he was talking about the same church of which you and I are members with Peter and John and Paul.

When the disciples were asking Jesus about who was greatest in the Kingdom of heaven in Matthew 18 and Jesus says tell it to the "church" if your brother tresspass against you, HE was speaking of this same "church" of which Peter, and John, and Paul and you and I are members.

In Acts 2, when it is said that the Lord added to the church daily, it is this same church of which Peter and John and You and I are members.

What was not understood fully though it was revealed to Peter, was that the Gentile would also be among those that were added to the same church of which they were members. This was understood fully first by Paul as it was Paul whom God would send to tell the Gentiles and to rebuke and reprove the Jews in the church that did not get it.

ONE GOSPEL, ONE SAVIOUR, ONE Kingdom, ONE King, into which we have been translated, for now it is an heavenly Kingdom.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Moses and John the Baptist are also members of this same Kingdom, but they do not in the Kingdom have the same position in the Kingdom that you or I or Paul or Peter or John have... Still it is the same Gospel through which they also have eternal life.

Jesus did not come to earth to establish an earthly Kingdom at his first coming. He came to call those who would come out of darkness and into the light... into understanding that it is not he who is a Jew outwardly, but he that is one inwardly, who could be to God a people and to whom God would be their God.

Jesus acomplished this and those who would come came and they became the church to which you and I were later added, by the Spirit of Adoption.

The rest were blinded. And the earthly kingdom of the Jews was taken and given to the Romans in 70 ad.

Today, there is neither Greek nor Jew and God has called all men everywhere to repent and come to knowledge of the truth and salvation in Christ.

One day this age will end, and this church will be taken from the earth and God will turn his eye back to Jerusalem and the blindness will be taken from the natural seed of Abraham and Christ will return to estaablish an earthly kingdom over all kingdoms of the earth that will be administered from Jerusalem, and the nations will be ruled by the Jesus and Jews will administer the Kingdom and for 1000 years nations will learn the oracles of God from the people of Daniel, who will witness the providence of GOD and give them the opportunity to be saved unto eternal life.

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Matthew “Behold thy King” (Zech. 9:9).
Mark “Behold My Servant” (Isa. 42:1).
Luke “Behold the Man” (Zech. 6:12).
John “Behold your God” (Isa. 40:9).

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In the A.V. and R.V. these four gospels are denominated “the Gospel according to Matthew (Mark, Luke or John)”, Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Markon, Loukan or Ioannen. Euaggelion is Anglicised as the Evangel, and means “good news”. Kata “according” denotes, not that the gospel was in any sense Matthew’s nor does it mean that the present gospel was compiled from material gathered from Matthew’s teaching, it signifies simply that
Matthew was the author of the narrative so named.

Owing to the fact that Matthew, Mark and Luke confine themselves to the Galilean ministry of our Lord, and do not speak a word of any visit to Jerusalem until His last solemn journey, there to die, these three Gospels have been called “The Synoptic Gospels”, i.e. Gospels having a common point of view, and differing very materially from
John’s Gospel which gives detailed accounts of our Lord’s several visits to Jerusalem and His ministry there. While this subdivision therefore sets forth a truth, it is not the whole truth, for upon examination Matthew manifests a different approach to his theme than either that of Mark or Luke, even as these two differ materially from each other.

Even more striking and important than the geographical setting of these Gospels, is the character of their writing. Matthew, Mark and Luke give little comment, adding nothing by way of personal observation or doctrinal inference
from their record of parable, miracle, discourse, death and resurrection. John however not only provides a prologue (John 1:1-18) and a stated purpose (John 20:30,31), but “delivers his historical testimony as from the chair of an
apostle” (Alford). Again, neither Matthew, Mark nor Luke claim in so many words, to have been eye-witnesses of the facts they record, although the record of Matthew’s calling, necessitates this feature in his case. John however insists in a number of places that he wrote as an eye-witness.
We shall therefore be wise to recognise that God has given us four inspired accounts of the earthly life and ministry of Christ, and that each writer was guided in the selection of his material so that in each case one special aspect of that wondrous life should be thrown into prominence.

John does not use the word repent or hell once, while Mathew, Mark, and Luke use them oft. Why?

Matthew
From the earliest days, the authorship of the first of the four Gospels has been ascribed to Matthew the son of Alphaeus and called by Mark and Luke by the name of Levi (Mark 2:14, Luke 3:24). The name “Matthew” and not Levi is used when speaking of him as one of the apostles (Mark 3:18, Luke 6:15). There are, as we well know, other examples of a change of name; Simon was called Peter, Saul was called Paul, and just as we do
not read of “Levi” as one of the apostles, but “Matthew”, so we never read of the “apostle Simon” or the “apostle Saul”. These names “Levi” and “Matthew” need cause no trouble to us, they were evidently accepted without comment at the beginning. The testimony of antiquity moreover is unanimous in placing Matthew’s gospel first
among the evangelists. The actual date has been put at “eight years after the ascension” (Theophyl), “fifteen years after the ascension” (Niceph. Hist.) and “at the stoning of Stephen” (Cosmos Indic:). A.D. 38 is the date adopted by
Webster and Wilkinson.

Mark
The writer of the second Gospel has been universally believed to be Marcus, the same person who is called “John Mark” in Acts 12:12, and Mark in Colossians 4:10 and 2 Timothy 4:11. We learn from Acts 12:12 that his mother’s name was Mary, and that she was a sister of Barnabas (Col. 4:10). We gather that Mark owed his conversion to Peter (1 Pet. 5:13); that he joined in the first missionary journey undertaken by his Uncle Barnabas and Paul (Acts 12:25), and owing to this blood relationship partly caused the disruption recorded in Acts 15:37-40.Later, any reflection on his character is effectively removed by the gracious words of Paul (Col. 4:10; 2 Tim. 4:11).
It is the unanimous tradition of antiquity that Mark was the “interpres”, the amanuensis, of Peter. While it is evident that Matthew had Hebrew readers in mind we can deduce from the writing of Mark that Gentile readers were before him. This would account partly for the omission of our Lord’s genealogy, the general mission of Old Testament citations, except, of course, where the Lord Himself is reported as quoting from the
Scriptures, and the interpretations offered of Hebrew and Aramaic expressions and the explanation of Hebrew customs.

Luke
While the author of the third Gospel and of the Acts does not give his actual name, there can be no doubt that Luke, the one spoken of in Colossians 4:14, is the writer. We find the writer of the Acts personally associated with Paul in Acts 16:10, and at intervals afterwards, his personal presence being indicated by the appearance of the pronoun “We”. Unlike the gospels of Matthew and Mark, Luke’s gospel was primarily written for the benefit of one named Theophilus, but even if Luke had no other intention than that of helping this enquirer, God intended that it should provide a companion to the Epistles of Paul, and exhibit the peculiar features of Luke’s gospel, abundantly clear that of the four, Luke’s gospel should be the one most studied by the Church of the One Body.

If the “Acts” is the second treatise written by Luke, and was published soon after the events recorded in Acts 28, it is evident that the gospel called “the former treatise” must have been published some time earlier, and Alford by a series of arguments indicates A.D. 50-58 as the probable limits within which this gospel was published.


John
John is named the son of Zebedee, and was the brother of James. His family seemed to have belonged to the middle class, as they had hired servants (Mark 1:20), and his mother was one of the women who ministered to the Lord of their substance (Luke 8:3 and Mark 16:1). He seems to have been known personally to the high Priest
(John 18:15) and possibly had some place of residence in Jerusalem (John 19:27). He is identified as “the disciple whom Jesus loved” and an eye-witness of the things recorded in his gospel.

Tradition places his closing years at Ephesus, where having outlived all the other apostles he died and was buried at about the age of 94. By the many explanations that John offers of matters which would be common knowledge among the Jews, together with the definite statements made in the gospel itself as to its scope, it is evident that this message is addressed to “the world”, its avowed object is to establish the truth that “Jesus is the Christ the Son of God”, so that “life” should be received “through His name” (John 20:31). The revelation of the Person of Christ, “The Word, Who was with God and was God “ Who became flesh and dwelt among us” is the
distinctive feature of this gospel, and where Matthew stresses “fulfilment” of the words of the Prophets, John emphasises personal testimony “ “one thing I know”. There seems to be some reason, however, unstated but generally known, that called forth the gospel so long after the synoptics had been written, and Irenaeus, Tertullian, Epiphanius and Jerome taught that John wrote to controvert the teaching of Cerinthius and the speculations of the Gnostics.

quote:
Acts 2:
21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

If we are all sitting around the house, and say, whosoever gets to the beach first gets Hobie Cat #7, it is restricted to us in who heard. We do not give "whosoever" might already be at the beach our Hobie Cat #7. Similarly, at Romans 10 end, we have the word preached to all the world, but was it? or was it preached to all the world where Israel was? Did the dynasties of China here it, or Peruvians/Chileans? When is all the world really all the world, and when is 'whosoever' everyone in the world? The Bible does not tell us to take things outside of their context do they?


We can easily go out to Acts10, and find that Peter had no knowledge of any gentiles being at Pentacost, therefore, the whosoever there, is whosoever was there, and there were only Jews there at the anual Pentacostal Jewish feast. Jesus Christ did not die and resurrect, and 50 days later the gentile church start. Peter did not open the door to gentiles until Cornelius and the three visions, however, Peter remained an apostle to the circumcision, and it was Paul, not Peter, who would use gentiles to provoke Israel to emulation until Acts 28:28.


If John's Gospel is the same, say as Mathews, then John did not speak to the world, but to "His own".

So which is it?


JOHN. In John, the purpose and climax come at the first. John tell us that Christ came unto His own possessions and His own people received Him not. But as many others (Gentiles) who received Him, they became children of God (not Abraham).

ARe these teachings in the other three GOSPELS? yes? no?

Just as Luke later told the history of the rejection in the Pentacostal period, John told of the rejection during the gospel period, but ending with the same event, Acts 28:28.

John's message is told in 1:1-18; 3:13-21 and 3:31-36. These passages are truth for today. The rest constitutes proof and background for the conclusion of 1:11,12. The purpose is stated in 20:30,31 and the means of accomplishing this purpose is 3:16.

Although we recognize the fact that after the Acts 28:28 frontier Luke would lead us to believe that there was the dispensation of the mystery, John does not give any indication of it. So far as he records, there is eternal life for the present and resurrection in the future for any that believe on Christ. He says nothing about sonship and adoption (Eph. 1:5)- John does not reveal it.


"The Gospel of the Kingdom" and Other "Gospels"
ap. 140 of the Companion Bible
About the meaning of the word rendered "Gospel" there is no question or doubt; and the origin and exact meaning of the English word does not matter.

The Greek word evangelion means good news, glad tidings; and these good tidings, which may be concerning various and different subjects, must be distinguished. See Phil. 1:10, note. There is, first :--

I. "THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL" (or GOOD NEWS).

This was proclaimed from the first, i.e. after the Fall, and it was proclaimed to men as men, by God, the Creator, to His creatures. Its message was that the Creator alone to be feared and worshipped, and men were to have no other gods beside Him. He was the holy and righteous One, and He was, and is, and will be the only and final Judge of men. God proclaimed this from the first, and among its heralds were ENOCH, "the seventh from Adam", who proclaimed His coming for this judgment of the ungodly (Jude 14:15); and NOAH, a herald of righteousness and of coming righteous judgment (Heb. 11:7 and 2Pet, 2:5).

When the "calling on high" shall have been given (Phil. 3:14), and when "transgressors are come to the full" (Dan. 8:23), and before the Kingdom is set up in glory, this Gospel (or Good News) will again be proclaimed (Rev. 14:6). It is "everlasting", and men, as such, will be called upon to "Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come : and worship Him that made heaven, and earth", &c (Rev. 14:7).

This is the Gospel proclaimed by the Creator to His sinful creatures after the Fall; and it will be proclaimed again at the end. Hence its name "everlasting". Then followed :--

II. THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE KINGDOM.

To Abraham and his seed was the good news proclaimed, and the promise given that God would make of him a nation in whom all the families of the earth should be blessed (Gen. 12:1-3). This good news was gradually expanded and developed.

In Gen. 15:4 the heir was announced, and this heir was to be the Messiah (Gal. 3:16).

In Gen. 15:8-21 the inheritance was secured by an unconditional promise (not by a covenant between two parties, one of whom might break it, Gal. 3:18-20). That inheritance was (and is yet to be) "the Holy Land", "Immanuel's Land" (Isa. 8:8), Immanuel Himself being the Governor (Isa. 9:6, 7), and "the zeal of the LORD of hosts" its security.

In 2Sam. 7 the throne was secured to David and his seed by another unconditional promise, and in due time Messiah came unto His own (John 1:11).

This "good news" was first heralded by angels sent specially from heaven; and the exact terms of the proclamation are recorded. The angel of Jehovah spoke from the glory of Jehovah, and said :--

"Behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day, in the city of David, a SAVIOUR, which is CHRIST, THE LORD."

Thus the good news concerned a Person, Who would "save His people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21) : the Saviour Whom God had anointed (Messiah), appointed, given, and sent. [At this point see and note the object and subject of Christ's ministry as set forth in Appendix 119.]

In the proclamation of this Kingdom the Lord taught in Parables; for there were "mysteries" (i.e. secrets) which concerned the rejection, and consequent postponement and abeyance of the Kingdom, which could not openly be made known, but only in private ("in the house", Matt. 13:36).

It had been foreseen, and therefore foretold, that His People would not receive Him, and would reject Him (Isa. 53, &c) and put Him to death. This would not affect the fulfilment of all the promised glories connected with the Kingdom. See Luke 24:26: "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into His glory?" Cp. Acts 3:18; 17:3.

True, Christ had been put to death; but God had sworn to David, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, He would raise up Christ to sit on his throne (Acts 2:30). This was now fulfilled : therefore the proclamation of the Kingdom and the King (for there cannot be the one without the other) was at once formally made by Peter in Acts 3:18-26.

This proclamation was made by Peter and the Twelve in the capital of the Land (according to Matt. 22:1-7), and by Paul throughout the synagogues of the Dispersion, until it was all brought to a crisis in Rome (the capital of the Dispersion). Paul and those who heard the Lord thus "confirmed what at the first began to be spoken by the Lord". They did not go beyond it by altering its terms; and God bare them "witness by signs and wonders, and divers miracles, and spiritual gifts" (Heb. 2:1-4).

In Acts 28 this was brought to a conclusion by a formal rejection on the part of "the chief of the Jews" (Acts 28:17-20), and of these, not a few, but "many" (v. 23); and, after a discussion, which lasted throughout the whole day, the proclamation was finally rejected; and, after the prophecy of Israel's blindness (Isa. 6:9, 10) had been quoted for the third and last time (*1), the dispensation of the proclamation of "the Gospel (or good news) of the Kingdom" ceased, and is now, therefore, in abeyance, for "NOW, we see NOT YET all things put under Him" (Heb. 2:8).

All these "mysteries" (or secrets) concerning the postponement and abeyance of the Kingdom were spoken "in parables", "because (the LORD said), it is given unto you (unto the disciples) to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them (to the People) it is not given" (Matt. 13:11); going on to explain His action by quoting (for the first time) the prophecy of Israel's blindness (Isa. 6:9, 10) (*1).

There was nothing in Old Testament prophecy that told of what the Lord reveals in these Parables of the Kingdom : how it would be rejected, and to what lengths the People would go in the rejection of the King; what would happen in consequence; how a second offer would be proclaimed, and how that too would be rejected : and what new revelation would be made in consequence.

All this was hidden in the parables spoken by the Lord, yet revealed to the disciples, and written for our learning (Matt. 13:16, 36, 51, 52. Luke 24:26, 27, 44-46. Acts 1:3, 6, 7). Any interpretation which proceeds on other lines can only end in a blindness equal to that which fell on the Jewish nation. This interpretation will in no wise detract from, or lessen, the value of such application as we may make for ourselves, so long as such application does not ignore the definite revelation made subsequently in the Prison Epistles in fulfilment of the Lord's promise in John 16:12-15.

The following parables set forth the proclamation of the Gospel of the Kingdom, from various points of view :--

1. THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER (Matt. 13:3-32).

This, the first parable, covers the whole ground.

The "seed "was" the word of (or concerning) the Kingdom". When repeated later (Luke 8:5-15), the sphere is extended and widened, and is less local and exclusive. This is by way of application.

The First Sowing was "by" the wayside. This must have been the proclamation by John the Baptist (Matt. 3. Mark 1:1-8. Luke 3:1-18. John 1:6-36). This was "by the wayside", and the opposition of the evil one is shown in the birds of evil omen (as in the case of the mustard tree, vv. 31, 32). Hence the seed was "devoured" and the word was "not understood" (vv. 4, 19).

The Second Sowing was by Christ Himself (Matt. 4:17), and Twelve (Matt. 10:7), and the Seventy (Luke 10:1-20). This sowing was on the stony ground, and was received "with joy" (Matt. 13:20; see Mark 6:20, and 12:37. Luke 4:22). This was unfruitful (Mark 4:16, 17).

The Third Sowing was by Peter and the Twelve, and "by them that heard Him" (the Son, Heb. 2:3) during the Dispensation of the Acts. It was "among the thorns". Peter proclaimed the Kingdom (Acts 3:18-26), and repeated the call to national repentance, which was the one abiding condition of national blessing. But the seed was choked. The "thousand of jews" who at first "received the word", continued "all zealous of the law" (Acts 21:20. Gal. 3:1-5, 10-13; 4:9; 5:1-4). This sowing came to a crisis in Acts 28, when the Kingdom was rejected, and has since been in abeyance. See Ap. 112, 113, and 114.

The Fourth Sowing is in the future. It will be the final proclamation of "the Gospel of the Kingdom", immediately preceding and during the Tribulation (Matt. 24:14). Blindness has "happened to Israel", but it is only "in part" (Rom. 11:25). The "how long" of Isa. 6:11 will ere long be seen. This sowing will be of short duration only, as were the other three, and numbered by "days" (Dan. 12:13. Matt. 24:22. Luke 17:26). There will be a special manifestation of the presence and power of the Lord (Matt. 28:20), at the end (sunteleia) of this age; and when this sowing is over, the end (telos) will come (Matt. 24:13, 14), concerning which the disciples had enquired in v. 3.

2. THE PARABLE OF THE MARRIAGE FEAST. (Matt. 22:1-14).

The servants first sent forth were John the Baptist, the Twelve, and the Seventy, and there were sent to those who had been previously bidden. But "they would not come".

The "other servants" who were next sent were Peter, the Twelve, and "them that heard Him" (Heb. 2:3, 4) during the dispensation of the Acts, as foreshown in v. 4.

They proclaimed that "all things were ready". Nothing now was wanting. The "sufferings" had been fulfilled and the glory was ready to be revealed (Luke 24:26, 46. Acts 3:18. 1Pet. 1:5). Therefore, "Repent ye", &c. (Acts 2:38, 39; 3:19).

But instead of repenting they "took His servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them" (Matt. 22:5, 6). Some they imprisoned (Acts 4:3; 5:18; 8:3; 9:1, 13, 21); one they stoned (Acts 7:59); another they "killed with the sword" (Acts 12:2). This shows that that dispensation could not have ended with the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7, for James was slain after that; and other persecutions were continued up to the end (Acts 28:17).

"But the King was wroth, and sent His armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city" (Matt. 22:7). The Temple was burned, and the nation dispersed.

The last servants sent will go "into the highways" of the world. Here we have, again, a reference to the yet future proclamation of "the Gospel of the Kingdom".

Now, this marriage-feast is postponed; and all invitations to it are in abeyance. Its future fulfilment is yet to take place. This is referred to in Matt. 24:14, and is proved by Rev. 19:6-9, where we have the same word in v. 9 as in Matt. 22:2.
3. "THE GREAT SUPPER" (Luke 14:15-24).

This was spoken in immediate connection with the blessedness of eating bread in the Kingdom of God.

Again we have the Four Ministries, as in the above parables.

The supper was made by "a certain man", and many were bidden. This bidding was the ministry of John the Baptist. It is set forth as a simple statement of a past and accomplished fact. This was the First Ministry (v. 16).

The Second Invitation was sent to those who had been already bidden by John. It was sent by "His Servant", Who was none other than the Lord Jesus Himself. His Ministry is expressed in one sentence : "Come; for all things are now ready" (v. 17). he was sent "at supper time", according to Eastern custom. But they all with one consent began to make excuse (vv. 18-20).

The Third Invitation was sent, not to those who had been already bidden, but to another class altogether. It was sent by "The Master of the House", Who has perfect right and authority to invite whom He will. He sent "quickly" : i.e. very soon after the return of the second servant; and "into the streets and lanes of the city". This was the ministry of Peter, the Twelve, and Paul.

The Fourth Invitation is yet future, as shown above in the other parables. It will be sent forth by "the Lord" (v. 23), by Him Who has all power in heaven and earth (Matt. 28:18-20). This will be a ministry of compulsion, carried out in the "highways and hedges" of the wide world; and it will be effectual like the last in the preceding cases. All, in turn, receive the call, but it is the last who "hear and understand" (Matt. 13:23); who "hear and receive" (Mark 4:20); who "hear and keep" (Luke 8:15); and who "bring forth fruit". For this, special wisdom and understanding is needed, as foretold in Dan. 11:33; 12:3, 10.

Thus the present dispensation (since the destruction of Jerusalem and dispersion of Israel, which took place shortly after Acts 28, has nothing to do with the Kingdom, and the proclamation of the good news connected with it is postponed and in abeyance. Meanwhile, and during this dispensation, we have :--

III. "THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF GOD".

This is the Gospel unto which Paul the Apostle was separated (Rom. 1:1), and is supplementary to "the Gospel of the Kingdom", of which it was another aspect.

"The Gospel of the Kingdom" was first proclaimed by John the Baptist and the Lord. But both were rejected and put to death.

The Lord, however, was raised from the dead and the Gospel of God has to do with a risen Messiah. It characterizes the ministry of the Acts rather than that of the Gospels; especially Paul's share in it.

The Gospel of a risen Messiah, re-proclaimed as about to come and restore all things, was the burden of the apostolic proclamation during the dispensation of the Acts. See Acts 2:23-36; 3:12-18; 4:2, 10-12.

"With great power gave the Apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus; and great grace was upon them all" (4:33). Also 5:29-32; 10:34-43; 13:23-29.

This too, was the burden of Paul's proclamation, as we may see from Acts 17:1-3, 7. He proclaimed "Jesus, and the resurrection" (vv. 18, 31, 32). True, it was the proclamation of the Kingdom, and, in its wider aspect, "the kingdom of God" (14:22; 19:8); because it was He Who had raised Christ from the dead, and the proclamation was being sent out by God Himself. It was His own special good news. It was of His own motion and will. And it was all of grace. If "His own" would even now receive Messiah, He would "send Jesus Christ" (Acts 3:20).

In spite of all their sins, and their heinous crime in murdering His beloved Son, He would blot out all their sins and fulfill all His promises. Truly, this was in very deed :--

IV. "THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE GRACE OF GOD".

This is why, in the canonical order of the books of the New Testament, God's overruling is seen in the fact that the first writing which comes to us following on the double rejection of His Son (in the Gospels and the Acts) is the word and good news of His grace in Rom. 1:1. In spite of all that we should consider the unpardonable nature of Israel's crime, the first written words which meet our eyes are these :--

"Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called Apostle (or, an Apostle by Divine calling), separated to God's Gospel (or glad tidings), which He before promised by means of His prophets in sacred writings concerning His Son, Who came of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was demonstrated [to be] God's Son, in power, with respect to [His] holy spirit [body, 1Cor. 15:45], by resurrection of the dead --even Jesus Christ our Lord, by Whom we received GRACE -- yea, apostolic grace, with a view to the obedience of faith among all the nations, on behalf of His Name (or for His glory), among whom yourselves also are [the] called of Jesus Christ" (Rom. 1:1-6).

Here we have the sum and the substance of the good news of the grace of God.

It was not new. It was promised before and written down by His prophets. The sufferings, death and resurrection and glory, were all foretold. But now "those things, which God before had showed by the mouth of all His prophets that Christ should suffer, He hath so fulfilled. THEREFORE, Repent ye, and turn again that your sins may be blotted out, so that [haply] may come seasons of refreshing from the presence (or face) of the Lord, and [that] He may send Him Who was before proclaimed (or according to all the critical texts, "was foreordained") for you -- even Jesus Christ" (Acts 3:18-20).

Thus "God's Gospel" was based on the prophecies of the Old Testament, and was the logical development of them.

It is in this that it is distinguished from that which had not been before revealed by the prophets in the concluding verses of Romans. That epistle begins with what had been written in the Scriptures; it ends with what had never been written till "now", when the SECRET which had been kept in silence from times eternal, or during [the] times of [the] ages was then at length made manifest (Rom. 16:25, 26. Eph. 3:1-12. Col. 1:26-28). (See Ap. 192).

The time had come fro this secret to be revealed, and to be committed to prophetic writings. This revelation is contained in the three Epistles written by Paul from his prison in Rome, to the Ephesians, Phillippians, and Colossians.

Thus "the Gospel of the Kingdom" was the proclamation by and concerning the Messiah made by John the Baptist and Himself, and is the subject of the Four Gospels.

Thus "the Gospel of the Kingdom" is the proclamation concerning the same Messiah, made by the Twelve, the apostle Paul, and "them that heard" the Lord, during the dispensation of the Acts of the Apostles, and is the subject of their testimony and of their writings and the earlier Epistles of Paul. Seeing it was good news sent after the resurrection of Christ, it is all of pure grace and favour, and hence is "the Gospel of the Grace of God".
V. THE GOSPEL (or GOOD NEWS) OF THE GLORY OF CHRIST (2COR. 4:4).

This is connected with Christ's exaltation as Head over all things to His church, which is His body, which is developed and revealed more fully in the Prison Epistles (Eph. 1:21-23. Phil. 2:9-11. Col. 1:14-19). It not only involves the present glory of Messiah, but includes the final defeat of Satan, the crushing of his head, and the subjugation of all spiritual beings, be they powers, principalities, authorities, dominions, or thrones, &c.

Hence, it is Satan's great aim now, at this present time, to blind the eyes of them that believe not, so that they may not learn of his coming defeat, as foretold in Gen. 3:15, and seen fulfilled in Rev. 20 (see 2Cor. 4:4).

Knowing his object, and being "not ignorant of his devices", we know also what should be our own object : viz. the making known this good news which he would seek to hide; and proclaiming "the Gospel of the glory of Christ".

(*1) The second time being in John 12:37-41.

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2 Tim 3:
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Paul was not writing to Timothy of his writings but of ALL of God's glorious Word.

The Ethiopean eunuch was reading from Isaiah, when Brother Phillip preached the Gospel.

All of the New Testament was written to Blood-bought, Born-again children of the Living God. The Book of Luke and Acts was written to the Greeks. The Book of Matthew was written to the Jews and thus we find the passages which say,"Kingdom of Heaven" rather than "Kingdom of God" because of the Jewish sensitivity to the use of God's name.

The Gospel which was preached on the day of Pentecost, at which time 3000 of our Believing Brethern came to Christ, is the same Gospel preached by Phillip, John, and Paul. Our Lord declared:

John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 3:
13: The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14: But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15: And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16: And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17: And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18: But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19: Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20: And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22: For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23: And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24: Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25: Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26: Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Acts 8:
5: Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
6: And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
7: For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
8: And there was great joy in that city.

Acts 11:
12: And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13: And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14: Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15: And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17: Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18: When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
19: Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
20: And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.
21: And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord.
22: Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch.
23: Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord.
24: For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.
25: Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
26: And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
27: And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
28: And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
29: Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
30: Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.


The Holy Ghost who inspired the sacred writings of Paul to Believers is the same Spirit of Truth who inspired the sacred writings of the Gospels, the Book of Acts, the entire New Testament, to Believers, our Brethren who spread forth from the Day of Pentecost. To propose a Pauline Dispensation, and to separate the Brethren on the day of Pentecost from the Brethren under Paul's apostleship, is a wresting of scripture. The Church Age, the Dispensation of Grace began with the empowering of the 120 in the Upper Room, and will conclude with our Glorious Reuniuon with our Lord in the air.

Acts 1:
3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
4: And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5: For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
6: When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
7: And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
8: But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Acts 2:
21: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Romans 10:
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
__________________

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Yes, I understand that most believe all Gospels to be only one, so let me ask the question then, how can it be that in three of them, the earthly people of His flesh, to whom Christ came, and the events pertaining to the prophecies concerning Christ Jesus, their denial, &c, possibly be the same as John's, written to an entirely different audience, having seen the children of promise and their kingdom offer withdrawn and the Salvation of God sent to the Gentiles, bearing in mind that Gentiles were not graphed into the true tree until 46 A.D., and then only for the hope of Israel, to provoke her that she might bear her fruit and receive the times of refreshing.

Is John speaking about that time, or only to Jews, or to the Jew first? Does John write to graphed in gentile beilievers? Is it for the hope of Israel that John's Gospel addresses? What does it say?

Do we really have the events of the Acts going on right now, the Jew is first, God is working miracles by apostles, gentiles stand outside the synagogues because it is to the Jew first, and us gentiles are only hearing to provoke Israel because her kingdom is nigh? Has it always been 'at hand', or is this a new thing? Where is the writings about the time of their Hos. 3? The times of the gentiles? Is anything different about the last 1950 years, has God been, all this time, using gentiles to provoke Israel - as it was during the Acts, before the tree was cut down. What are the instructions to the graphed in tree? Wasn't there a church announced after the tree was cut down? A church called His body? The church never revealed before A.D.62, after all Israel heard, signs miracles following, the Lord working with them, isn't this a different church?

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Amen, White Eagle! ONE Gospel.
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