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Topic: Gifts and Offerings
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HisGrace
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Quote "Were the three wise men (or magi) magicians or astrologers? If so, doesn't it show God's approval of paganism? These important questions deserve an answer.
The familiar "wise men" or "magi" who followed the star from the East were probably astrologers from Persia. They may have been Zoroastrian magicians, and the gifts they brought the prophesied King suggest that they held positions of wealth and influence. But why would astrologers or magicians travel so far to worship Jesus? And why would God use pagan leaders to honor His Son?
The answer is simple: God's love reaches out to people in "nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues" around the world. ["For the eyes of the Lord run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show Himself strong on behalf of those whose heart is loyal to Him." 2 Chron 16:9] These wise men had apparently learned about God through the Scriptures brought to Babylon and Persia during the exile that had followed Israel's slide into paganism and idolatry centuries earlier. The goodness of God had been demonstrated among His exiled people -- Daniel, Ruth, Nehemiah and others -- and historical records had preserved their memory. So the Biblical God was not unknown to Persian scholars at this momentous time.
When these wise and courageous men saw the sign in the sky, they were ready to pursue the truth that had touched their hearts. Risking their lives to find and worship the prophesied King, they stepped out in faith to cross a vast and dangerous terrain. God honored their quest with His guiding star along the way.
This wasn't the first time God would touch the hearts of pagan leaders, open their eyes to see His truth, build vibrant faith in their hearts and use them for His own good purposes. That's what happened to the Persian King Cyrus. Through a series of rhetorical questions that points to the amazing sovereignty of our God, the prophet Isaiah wrote about Cyrus before that faithful leader was even born:
"Who raised up one from the east?
Who in righteousness called him to His feet?
Who gave the nations before him,
And made him rule over kings?" Isaiah 41:2
Later God told Isaiah, "Cyrus...My shepherd ... shall perform all My pleasure." [Isaiah 44:28] And when God was ready to bring His people back into their land, He used Cyrus to prepare the way and to restore the holy objects the Babylonian armies had stolen from His temple:
"...a decree was issued by King Cyrus to build this house of God at Jerusalem, and let the king send us his pleasure concerning this matter." Ezra 5:17
"Also, the gold and silver articles of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar had taken from the temple that was in Jerusalem and carried into the temple of Babylon—those King Cyrus took from the temple of Babylon.... And he said to him, ‘Take these articles; go, carry them to the temple site that is in Jerusalem, and let the house of God be rebuilt on its former site.’ Ezra 5:14
Centuries later, Jesus told the parable of the kind Samaritan. In His beloved story, Jesus introduced an outcast to the religious establishment to illustrate self-giving love -- putting to shame those who, in their arrogance, had ignored God's call to compassion. His point was not to show approval of paganism, but to remind all of us that He seeks disciples who would give Him their lives no matter the cost. What counts is faithfulness, love, humility and obedience, not race, culture, nationality or social status.
"Seek the Lord while He may be found, call upon Him while He is near.
Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord, and He will have mercy on him;
And to our God, for He will abundantly pardon." Isaiah 55:6-7
See what it also means to be a Christian."
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epouraniois
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quote:
My answer to that is that the trip to Misr Egypt would never have happened if the magoi had not come to Jerusalem and then to Bethlehem-Judah.
BORN AGAIN
This statement is as much supposition as mine, but in mine I point out that 'if' something were underfoot by powers and principalities to call attention to the Christ child, then this insertion could have been used by the Lord to fulfill prophecy, 'out of Egypt'.
some things are simply outside the bounds of Scripture, keeping us within the knowledge base of that wich is most important, the principle embodied in the rebuke of the Lord to the two disciples on the way to Emmaus never be merited by either writer or reader:
‘O fools. and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken’ (Luke 24:25).
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BORN AGAIN
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oneyearandcounting writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
But you add a comment about Lucifer knowing everything that goes on in his world.
Lucifer-Satan is a spirit and while he is not God and in that sense he does not know everything, I do contend that Lucifer-Satan knows where everybody is located and he knew at all times where the child Jesus was located, and who He was:
Mark 1:34
... And {He} suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew Him.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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Yes, the wise men were certainly part of God's plan, as well as the shepherds. Notice that they were the only two types of people who had predominate roles in the story of the portrayal of the actual birth of the baby Jesus.
Let's look at Matthew 12: The fact that the babe laid in a lowly feeding trough and we are told about shepherds coming to visit him, represents the humility of Jesus.
Why are the wise men included in the story?
They represent the majesty and honour that should be bestowed to him as King. The magi would be utilized as symbolic kingsmen in order to bow down to and celebrate the coming of the King of kings and Lord of lords.
God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. As epr said He sometimes uses the weak and the foolish. In his Godly wisdom he doesn't always think the same way our finite minds understand his logic.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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God is the only one who is omnipotent . God allowed Jewish babies to be killed in Moses day and God allowed Jewish babies to be killed when Jesus was born. God sent the wise men to Jesus as a sign. God wanted it known through out time that Jesus was sent on earth to be a sacrifice for man kind. God sent the wise men with their three gifts for a reason. The gold represented the deity of Christ and the fragrances were there to represent that Jesus would die for our sins. Ever since Adam sinned, God has loved man enough to have worked out a plan for our salvation. The wise men were sent as part of God's plan.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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oneyearandcounting
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Ok BA, I see what you are saying about the magoi. But you ade a comment about Lucifer knowing everything that goes on in his world. How doyou prove this. He's noty omnipresent so what does he have a good network. Were him and his fellow fallen angels the first to walk around saying "Can you here me now, Good". Other than that I can see your thinking. Not so sure I agree but it does make a some sence.
God bless
greg
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Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.
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BORN AGAIN
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brother epouraniois writes quote:
I thought I might better supply the ellipsis so to speak, that perhaps these men were used of God to abide the time for the trip to Egypt? {bold by BORN AGAIN}
hello, epouraniois, I wanted to ask you about this phrase these men were used of God to abide the time for the trip to Egypt.
My answer to that is that the trip to Misr Egypt would never have happened if the magoi had not come to Jerusalem and then to Bethlehem-Judah.
True, the star took the magoi to Bethlehem, but if this star was an evil angel, this star would have taken the magoi to Bethlehem and the magoi would have rejoiced, if they were practioners of white magic (white magic = Lucifer-Satan's euphemism for black magic).
The magoi, if they were practictioners of white magic, would have rejoiced to follow the star, not knowing the star was an evil angel in sheep's clothing.
Now the LORD YHWH of Israel, foreseeing that Lucifer Satan would do this, foretold it ahead of time, saying, "Out of Egypt have I called my son."
The visit of the magoi caused untold grief in Ramah, with Rachel crying for her children who were no more. This is not something the LORD would set up.
To say that the LORD God used the magoi to provide for the trip to Misr Egypt is reverse reasoning because the trip would not have been necessary if the magoi had not arrived in Jerusalem, alerting evil King Herod.
to be sure, the LORD did turn "what the devil intended for bad, into good" for those who love Him, and so the gold, frankincense and myrrh did pay for Joseph and Mary's and the young child Jesus in Misr Egypt.
The LORD did not send them to Egypt so that the LORD could say, "Out of Egypt have I called my son"; no, the LORD knew what Lucifer-Satan would do to try to disrupt the birth of Yahshua-Jesus.
Which is another point. Lucifer-Satan is a spirit and not a man, and Lucifer-Satan knew exactly where the Son of God was being born at. Lucifer-Satan knows everything that is going on in his world.
I know that Lucifer-Satan went to meet Yahshua-Jesus in wilderness of Judah when Yahshua was 30 years old, and said to Yahshua: "if you are the Son of God, command these stones to be made bread."
Lucifer-Satan knew where Jesus the Son of God was at all times.
It would be typical Lucifer-Satan to send a star or evil angel to magoi or white magicians of Persia, who "rejoiced to see the star" (now knowing that there was an evil being behind the star, the followed the star eagerly).
By this method Lucifer-Satan tried to destroy the Messiah when the Messiah was about 2 years old, but, Joseph and Mary being warned of God, fled into Egypt with the gifts which Lucifer-Satan stupidly had given them.
May the LORD God of Israel bless all who participate on this CBBS, BORN AGAIN in the USA by the of Yahshua-Jesus
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epouraniois
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I thought I might better supply the ellipsis so to speak, that perhaps these men were used of God to abide the time for the trip to Egypt?
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epouraniois
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God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to naught things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence. The Lord worketh all things after the counsel of his own will, This also cometh forth from the LORD of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working. The LORD of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honorable of the earth.
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Mat 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
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BORN AGAIN
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so, epouraniois, what is your final conclusion regarding the magoi? good, or bad? BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois
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OK OK OK, this can't be that hard, but I see some points of intrest being made here.
By the power of His word are all things held, including miracles signs and wonders. Satan, being supernatural as well, needeth no man to tell him what he can already see and hear, besides, Satan has read the book!
Daniel WAS told the archangel must go fight with the king of persia, but I can't really see these magi being that ignorant, WAIT WAIT WAIT, that's right, they knew where to look (if they had a roll), but didn't seem to know what the OT said, you know?
Add that with the fact that the 7-11's might have sold out all their maps, they probably went to the center of the world, Jerusalem to inquire in the rolls.
The time of their coming was, "when Jesus was born"; not as soon as he was born. They may have been proselites as well, unfamiliar with all the rolls.
"Magi", a word which is always used in a bad sense in the sacred writings; hence they are thought by some to be magicians, sorcerers, wizards, such as Simon Magus, Act_8:9 and Elymas, Act_13:8 and so the Jewish writers (w) interpret the word מגוש a wizard, an enchanter, a blasphemer of God, and one that entices others to idolatry; and in the Hebrew Gospel of Munster these men are called מכשפים "wizards".
Porphyry :
"among the Persians they that were wise concerning God, and worshipped him, were called μαγοι, "Magi", for so "Magus" signifies in their country dialect; and so august and venerable were this sort of men accounted with the Persians, that Darius, the son of Hystaspis, ordered this, among other things, to be inscribed on his monument, that he was the master of the Magi.''
It is a valid question.
The east (ἀνατολή)
Literally, the rising. Some commentators prefer to render at its rising, or when it rose. In Luk_1:78, the word is translated dayspring, or dawn. The kindred verb occurs in Mat_4:16, “light did spring up” (ἀνέτειλεν)
These men were from the east then, not following a star from the east lest they being going the wrong way...
Joseph with his wife and child were ordered into Egypt, which could not be done before Mary's Purification. But rather this their coming was near upon two years after the birth of Christ; since it is afterwards observed, that "Herod sent and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men", Mat_2:16.
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BORN AGAIN
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yahsway, thanks for that excerpt from Eddie Chumneys book.
That was interesting. And I suppose that it is "possible" that the "wise men" were Jewish sages from Babylon.
One question I would ask, though, that if these were Jewish sages who were "all about celebrating Sukhot", as EChumney proposes, then one would think that these "Jewish sages" would also have known where the Messiah was to be born, and Herod would not have had to assemble the elders and scribes to find out "where the Messiah should be born" if these were Jewish sages, right?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by epouraniois:
The perpetual burning of the frankensince representing the prayers of the saints at the very least.
That's rich -Thanks epouraniois!!
Exodus 30:22-35 Moreover the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Take thou also unto thee principal spices, of pure myrrh five hundred shekels, and of sweet cinnamon half so much, even two hundred and fifty shekels, and of sweet calamus two hundred and fifty shekels,
And of cassia five hundred shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary, and of oil olive an hin:
And thou shalt make it an oil of holy ointment,an ointment compound after the art of the apothecary: it shall be an holy anointing oil.
And thou shalt anoint the tabernacle of the congregation therewith, and the ark of the testimony,
And the table and all his vessels, and the candlestick and his vessels, and the altar of incense,
And the altar of burnt offering with all his vessels, and the laver and his foot.
And thou shalt sanctify them, that they may be most holy: whatsoever toucheth them shall be holy.
And thou shalt anoint Aaron and his sons, and consecrate them, that they may minister unto me in the priest's office.
And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, This shall be an holy anointing oil unto me throughout your generations.
Upon man's flesh shall it not be poured, neither shall ye make any other like it, after the composition of it: it is holy, and it shall be holy unto you.
Whosoever compoundeth any like it, or whosoever putteth any of it upon a stranger, shall even be cut off from his people.
And the LORD said unto Moses, Take unto thee sweet spices, stacte, and onycha, and galbanum; these sweet spices with pure frankincense: of each shall there be a like weight:
And thou shalt make it a perfume, a confection after the art of the apothecary, tempered together, pure and holy:
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yahsway
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Here is some excerpts from Eddie Chumneys book "The Seven Festivals of the Messiah". It is too long to post here about evidences from scripture that Jesus was born at the time of Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) But i found this interesting considering the Wise Men from the East.
"The last evidence I will give for the birth of Yeshua during Sukkot according to scriptures is in Matt. 2:1. There we see that wise men come from the east to visit Yeshua.
The land of the East is Babylon, where the largest Jewish population was at the time of the birth of Yeshua. These Jews were descendents from the captivity when King Nebuchadnezzar defeated Israel and took the Jews to Babylon to serve him.
Babylon is referred to as the land of the East in Gen 29:1 and Judges 6:3. The wise men in Matt. 2:1 were rabbis. The rabbis, also called sages, are known in Hebrew as chakamim, which means Wise Men.
The word in Matt 2:1 in Greek is magos, which is translated into English as "Magi." Magos in Greek is the Hebrew word ravmag. Ravmag comes from the Hebrew word rav, which means "rabbi".
It should also be noted that the Greek word magos can also mean scientist, counselor, scholar, or teacher.
The rabbis were scholars or teachers of the Jewish law. Yeshua was referred to as "Rabbi" or "Teacher" in John 1:38,47,49;3:2. So, we can see that the wise men were Jewish rabbis coming from Babylon to witness the birth of Yeshua.
A question we can ask ourselves is what made the rabbis make the journey from Babylon to Bethlehem to witness the birth of Yeshua? The answer is given in Matt. 2:2. as it is written,"...we have seen His star in the east...."
One of the requirements during the time of Sukkot was to build an outside temporary shelter and live in it during this festival season. This shelter is called a booth, or sukkah. The sukkah had to be built with an opening in the roof so the people could see the stars in heaven.
This is another reason for why the rabbis would be looking for, and thus seeing, the star in the sky when it appeared. In addition, there was a prophecy in Numbers, as it is written, "...a star shall come forth from Jacob..." (Numbers 24:17).
King Herod inquired about where the Messiah would be born in Matt 2:4. He was told in Bethlehem (Matt. 2:5-6), based upon the prophecy in Micah 5:2. In Matt 2:10 it is written, "When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy."
Once again, remember that Sukkot is called "the season of our joy". In Matt 2:2, the rabbis saw the star from the East. Salvation was seen by the Jewish people as coming from the East. Yeshua descended from the tribe of Judah (Rev5:5).
The tribe of Judah was positioned on the east side of the tabernacle of Moses in the wilderness. Finally, in Luke 2:32, Yeshua is called a light to the Gentiles. Once again, Sukkot is called the "the festival of lights" and the "festival of all nations".
Therefore, studying and understanding the festival of Sukkot and the themes and messages that God desired to be conveyed during this festival enables us to read the Bible in a new light; it enables us to understand that Yeshua was born during the season of Sukkot and that He is the Star we are all called to see with our (spiritual) eyes!"
Sukkot, as well as Hannukah are both called the Festival of lights. Mr. Chumney explaind this in an earlier chapter (too much to post here) but I found it interesting that the Jewish women during the feast of Sukkot, would take swaddeling cloths and make wicks for the menorrah as well as make wicks for torches where during the celebration all would dance and sing praises to God with lit torches. Shalom
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epouraniois
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HisGrace
Well said, and agreeable with the gifts fit for a king, things of the temple God tabernacled in the wilderness with them, being frankensince and gold furnishings; w/pure myrrh a principal spice, Exo 30:23.
The perpetual burning of the frankensince representing the prayers of the saints at the very least.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
but this could not have been an astronomical star, because stars are so far away that if a person goes outside at night, it is impossible to tell over whose house it is--nay, the stars appear to be over everyone's houses; nay, over everyone's city; nay, over everyone's state.
The angels are referred to as "stars" in the Bible, and therefore this "star" which led the magi from the east must have been an angel, and in this case, an evil angel who guided them to the house where the child Jesus was, so that Lucifer-Satan could get the baby killed.God bless, BORN AGAIN
There is absolutely nothing in the Bible that even hints that the visit of these magi was less than honourable.
Maybe they were magi, but God was for them and they were for God, because Mary accepted their gifts and they fell down and worshipped Jesus. Research may say all sorts of things about the magi, but we have to follow the scriptures.
Matthew 2:1-Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea, during the reign of King Herod. About that time some wise men from eastern lands arrived in Jerusalem, asking, "Where is the newborn king of the Jews? We have seen his star as it arose, and we have come to worship him."
~(Notice is says We have seen his star. This obviously wasn't Lucifer's plan. With reference to stars throughout the Bible they are made in the context of "sun, moon and stars", "stars twinkling in the skies" or "they are too numerous to count in the skies". They aren't clearly made in reference to angels until Rev. 1.)
Rev. 1 16 it say And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Vrs.20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
~(These stars weren't twinkling in the heavens.)
3.Herod was deeply disturbed by their question, as was all of Jerusalem. He called a meeting of the leading priests and teachers of religious law. "Where did the prophets say the Messiah would be born?" he asked them.
"In Bethlehem," they said, "for this is what the prophet wrote:
~(Looks like Herod, not the magi, was guided by Lucifer.)
6.O Bethlehem of Judah, you are not just a lowly village in Judah, for a ruler will come from you
who will be the shepherd for my people Israel.'
Then Herod sent a private message to the wise men, asking them to come see him. At this meeting he learned the exact time when they first saw the star. Then he told them, "Go to Bethlehem and search carefully for the child. And when you find him, come back and tell me so that I can go and worship him, too!"
After this interview the wise men went their way. Once again the star appeared to them, guiding them to Bethlehem. It went ahead of them and stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were filled with joy!
~(They wouldn't be filled with joy if they were guided by Lucifer. The first time it clearly says that the star was of God, so when it 'appeared again' that same star/angel? would be of God.
11.They entered the house where the child and his mother, Mary, were, and they fell down before him and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasure chests and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
~(If the devil was guiding them they wouldn't be capable of falling down and worshipping him. See how Mary accepted their gifts. The KJV says,'they presented him" )
12 But when it was time to leave, they went home another way, because GOD WARNED THEM in a dream not to return to Herod.
~(GOD protected them by warning them to not return to Herod.)
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epouraniois
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re, title of the thread, Israel's blessings have always been, and shall continue to be 'in stock' and 'in store', for they shall inherit the earth, and with the additional yet future fulfillment of multiplying as the sand of the sea and the stars of heaven. Throughout Scripture, when they followed the Lord, they multiplied, when they fell into idolatry they were deminished.
They look for an heavenly kingdom in the earth with earthly things, whereas our citizenship is in heavenly places far above all, seated with Him being the saints in light.
Once 'the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward' is revealed, the citizenship is no longer on the earth, the blessings are no longer earthly, for we are dead and our life is hid with Christ in God. There is nothing earthly about the church of the one body. The unity of the Spirit we are charged in guarding is in heaven, not on the earth. There only earthly attributes to the church called His body the fullness of Him that filleth all in all is that we are to walk worthy while we are in the flesh of the vocation in which He has chosen to call us.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but BE THOU PARTAKER OF THE AFFLICTIONS of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and CALLED US with A HOLY CALLING, not according to our works, but according to HIS OWN PURPOSE and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also CALLED, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
2Ti 2:3 Thou therefore ENDURE HARDNESS, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2Ti 2:4 No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and INCREASING IN THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God
Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Phi 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
2Ti 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him
Phi 1:26 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ
Phi 1:28 And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God.
Phi 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Phi 1:30 Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.
Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
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BORN AGAIN
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From the Internet: "Who were the Magi"?
Herodotus (I, ci) is our authority for supposing that the Magi were the sacred caste of the Medes. They provided priests for Persia, and, regardless of dynastic vicissitudes, ever kept up their dominating religious influence.
To the head of this caste, Nergal Sharezar, Jeremiah gives the title Rab-Mag, "Chief Magus" (Jeremiah 39:3, 39:13, in Hebrew original — Septuagint and Vulgate translations are erroneous here).
After the downfall of Assyrian and Babylonian power, the religion of the Magi held sway in Persia. Cyrus completely conquered the sacred caste; his son Cambyses severely repressed it.
The Magians revolted and set up Gaumata, their chief, as King of Persia under the name of Smerdis. He was, however, murdered (521 B.C.), and Darius became king. This downfall of the Magi was celebrated by a national Persian holiday called magophonia (Her., III, lxiii, lxxiii, lxxix).
Still the religious influence of this priestly caste continued throughout the rule of the Achaemenian dynasty in Persia (Ctesias, "Persica", X-XV); and is not unlikely that at the time of the birth of Christ it was still flourishing under the Parthian dominion. Strabo (XI, ix, 3) says that the Magian priests formed one of the two councils of the Parthian Empire.
Biblical Evidence
The Greek word magoi often has the meaning of "magicians", in both the Old and New Testaments (see Acts 8:9; 13:6, 8; also the Greek Septuagint of Daniel 1:20; 2:2, 2:10, 2:27; 4:7; 5:7, 5:11, 5:15).
Daniel 1
20 And in all matters of wisdom and understanding, that the king enquired of them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi} and astrologers that were in all his realm.
Daniel 2
2 Then the king commanded to call the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi}, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to shew the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
10 The Chaldeans answered before the king, and said, There is not a man upon the earth that can shew the king's matter: therefore there is no king, lord, nor ruler, that asked such things at any magician {Greek LXX, magos}, or astrologer, or Chaldean.
27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king has demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi}, the soothsayers, shew unto the king.
BORN AGAIN adds: And look what company these fellows are keeping: astrologers and soothsayers.
Daniel 4
7 Then came in the magicians {Greek LXX, magoi} and the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers: and I told the dream before them; but they did not make known unto me the interpretation thereof.
when it is added that these fellows came from the east, you get the picture, don't you?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace writes quote:
Proverbs 10:14
Wise men store up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool invites ruin.
Now you're mixing apples with oranges, HisGrace.
In Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com), the word "wise" (the word "men" is implied but not in the text) in the OT is:
2450 chakam, from 2449; wise, (i.e. intelligent, skilful or artful):--cunning (man), subtil, ((un-)), wise((hearted), man).
In the Greek, "chakam" became "sophos" and NOT "magos".
In Egypt, Pharaoh had wise men (sophos) and he had "magicians":
Gen 41:8 And it came to pass in the morning 01242 that his spirit 07307 was troubled 06470 ; and he sent 07971 and called 07121 for all the magicians 2748 of Egypt 04714, and all the wise men 2450 thereof: and Pharaoh 06547 told 05608 them his dream 02472; but [there was] none that could interpret 06622 them unto Pharaoh 06547.
Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com)
2748 chartom, from the same as 2747; a horoscopist (as drawing magical lines or circles):--magician.
New Testament
Mat 2:1 Now 1161 when Jesus 2424 was born 1080 in 1722 Bethlehem 965 of Judaea 2449 in 1722 the days 2250 of Herod 2264 the king 935, behold 2400 , there came 3854 wise men 3097 from 575 the east 395 to 1519 Jerusalem 2414.
Strong's Concordance (www.eliyah.com)
3096 mageuo, from 3097; to practice magic:--use sorcery.
3097 magos, of foreign origin (7248); a Magian, i.e. Oriental scientist; by implication, a magician:--sorcerer, wise man.
Other occurrences of "magos" in the NT:
Act 13:6 And 1161 when they had gone through 1330 the isle 3520 unto 891 Paphos 3974, they found 2147 a certain 5100 sorcerer 3097, a false prophet 5578, a Jew 2453, whose 3739 name 3686 [was] Barjesus 919.
Act 13:8 But 1161 Elymas 1681 the sorcerer 3097 (for 1063 so 3779 is his 846 name 3686 by interpretation 3177 ) withstood 436 them 846, seeking 2212 to turn away 1294 the deputy 446 from 575 the faith 4102.
Do you really thing that God would use sorcerers and horoscopists to go "honor His Son the child Jesus"? I don't think so.
But Lucifer-Satan would.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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In the Bible stars are often angels, but that there is the story of the everlasting gospel in the stars is that which has been twisted into astrology, hiding the real truth they speak:
"THE STARS ALSO."
In the first mention of the heavenly bodies, the purpose of the Creator is clearly stated. Gen. 1:14-19 reveals the fact that they were created, not only "to divide the day from the night, and to give light upon the earth"; but, they were set "for SIGNS, and for SEASONS, and for days and years".
The figure Polysyndeton (see Ap. 6) emphasizes these four purposes, and bids us single them out and consider them separately and independently.
They are "for SIGNS'.
Heb. 'oth, from 'athah, to come. Signs, therefore, of something or some One to come. Those who understand them are enlightened by them. Those who do not may well be "dismayed" (Jer. 10:2).
The stars are numbered and named. There are twelve signs of the Zodiac, called "the stars" in Gen. 37:9 (eleven of which bowed down to Joseph's, the twelfth). The word Zodiac means the degrees or steps, which mark the stages of the sun's path through the heavens, corresponding with the twelve months.
The stars were all named by God (Ps. 147:4). Most of these names have been lost; but over 100 are preserved through the Arabic and Hebrew, and are used by astronomers to-day, though their meaning is unknown to them. Many of them are used in Scripture as being well known, though the translations are somewhat speculative : e.g. Job 9:9. Heb. 'ash (Arcturus, R.V. the Bear), kesil (A.V. Orion), kimah (Pleiades). John 38:31, 32, mazzaroth (margin, Zodiac). Cp. 2Kings 23:5, 'ash (Arcturus with her sons, R.V. the Bear with her train, both versions being incorrect as to the names). See also Isa. 13:10. Amos 5:8.
These names and the twelve "signs" go back to the foundation of the world. Jewish tradition, preserved by Josephus, assures us that this Bible astronomy was invented by Adam, Seth, and Enoch.
We see evidence of it as early as Gen. 11:4, where we read of the Tower of Babel having "his top with the heavens". There is nothing about the wrongly supplied italics "may reach unto". The words, doubtless, refer to the signs of the Zodiac, pictured at the top of the Tower, like the Zodiacs in the Temples of Denderah, and Esneh in Egypt.
The Babylonian "Creation Tablets" refer to them, though their primitive meaning had been either corrupted or lost. It is the same with the Greek mythology, which is a corruption of primitive truth which had been lost and perverted.
We have to remember that our written Scriptures began with Moses, say in 1490 B.C. : and thus, for more that 2,500 years, the revelation of the hope which God gave in Gen. 3:15 was preserved in the naming of the stars and their grouping in Signs and Constellations.
These groupings are quite arbitrary. There is nothing in the positions of the stars to suggest the pictures originally drawn around them. The Signs and Constellations were first designed and named; then, the pictures were drawn around them respectively. Thus the truth was enshrined and written in the heavens, where no human hand could touch it. In later years, when Israel came into the possession of the written "Scriptures of truth", there was no longer any need for the more ancient writing in the heavens. Hence, the original teaching gradually faded away and the heathen, out of the smattering they had heard by tradition, evolved their cosmogonies and mythologies.
Ps. 19 contains a vivid reference to these two Books of revelation. That is why there is the very sudden change of subject at verse 7; a change which still perplexes and baffles all the skill of commentators.
The teaching is preserved in the structure of the Psalm, where we have
A 1-4-. The Heavens.
B -4-6. "In them, the sun".
A 7-10. The Scriptures.
B 11-14. "In them (the same Heb. as in v. 4.), Thy servant".
In this structure every line emphasizes the elaboration of the design : for, while, in the first half, all the terms are literary, in the latter half they are all astronomical, thus welding the two portions of the Psalm into one harmonious whole.
For the meaning of the words, reference must be made to the Psalm itself. We can only note here that the first part does not refer to the wonders of creation, but to the eloquence of its teaching and revelation : they "declare", tell, or narrate (Gen. 24:66. Ps. 71:15), they "utter speech", but without words (omit "where" in v. 3); they prophesy "day by day", "night by night". The question is : What do they prophesy? What knowledge do they show forth? What glory do they tell of?
The answer is -- Gen. 3:15. The one great central truth of all prophecy -- the coming of the One, Who, though He should suffer, should in the end crush the head of the old serpent, the Devil.
But, where are we to open this book? Where are we to break into this circle of the Zodiacal signs?
Through the "precession of the Equinoxes" the sun gradually shifts its position a little each year, till in about every 2,000 years it begins the year in a different sign. This was foreseen; and it was also foreseen that succeeding generations would not know when and where the sun began its course, and where the teaching of this Heavenly Book commenced, and where we were to open its first page. Hence the "Sphinx" was invented as a memorial. It had the head of a woman and the body and tail of a lion, to tell us that this Book, written in the Heavens, began with the sign "Virgo", and will end with the sign "Leo". The word "sphinx" is from the Greek sphingo, to join; because it binds together the two ends of this circle of the heavens.
The number of the Signs is twelve, the number of governmental perfection or "rule" : cp. Gen. 1:18 (Ap. 10). They are divided into three books of four chapters (or signs) each : twelve being the product of 3x4, i.e. of Divine truth working in the heavens and in the earth (see Ap. 10).
Each book, therefore, consists of four signs; and these are all arranged, by structure, in exactly the same way. Each is an introversion. Thus we have the three books:
First Book. The Redeemer.
(His first coming).
A VIRGO. The prophecy of the promised seed.
B LIBRA. The Redeemer's work (grace).
B SCORPIO. The Redeemer's conflict.
A SAGITTARIUS. The prophecy fulfilled.
Second Book. The Redeemed.
(His work and its results).
C CAPRICORNUS. The prophecy of deliverance.
D AQUARIUS. Results of work bestowed.
D PISCES. Results of work enjoyed.
C ARIES. The prophesied deliverance fulfilled.
Third Book. The Redeemer.
(His Second Coming).
E TAURUS. The prophecy of coming judgment.
F GEMINI. The Redeemer's reign in glory.
F CANCER. The Redeemer's position safe.
E LEO. The prophecy of triumph fulfilled.
Each of the four chapters in each of these three Books consists of three sections; and each section is represented by a Constellation. There are thus thirty-six (3x12) Constellations, which, with the twelve Signs, make forty-eight (4x12) in all.
They may thus be set forth :
The First Book. The Redeemer.
"The sufferings of Christ."
I. VIRGO (A)
The prophecy of the promised seed.
1. COMA ( = The desired). The woman and child the desired of all nations (in the most ancient Zodiacs).
2. CENTAURUS (with two natures). The despised sin-offering.
3. BOOTES. The coming One with branch.
II. LIBRA (B).
The Redeemer's atoning work.
1. CRUX. The Cross endured.
2. LUPUS. The Victim slain.
3. CORONA. The Crown bestowed.
III. SCORPIO (B).
The Redeemer's conflict.
1. SERPENS. Assaulting the man's heel.
2. OPHIUCHUS. The man grasping the serpent.
3. HERCULES. The mighty man victorious.
IV. SAGITTARIUS (A).
The Redeemer's triumph.
1. LYRA. Praise prepared for the Conqueror.
2. ARA. Fire prepared for His enemies.
3. DRACO. The dragon cast down.
The Second Book. The Redeemed.
I. CAPRICORNUS (C).
The result of the Redeemer's sufferings.
1. SAGITTA. The arrow of God sent forth.
2. AQUILLA. The smitten one falling.
3. DELPHINUS. The dead One rising again.
II. AQUARIUS (D).
The Blessings assured.
1. PISCIS AUSTRALIS. The blessings bestowed.
2. PEGASUS. The blessings quickly coming.
3. CYGNUS. The Blesser surely returning.
III. PISCES (D).
The Blessings in abeyance.
1. THE BAND. The great enemy, "Cetus."
2. ANDROMEDA. The redeemed in bondage.
3. CEPHEUS. The Deliverer coming to loosen.
IV. ARIES (C).
The Blessings consummated.
1. CASSIOPEIA. The captive delivered.
2. CETUS. The great enemy bound.
3. PERSEUS. The "Breaker" delivering.
The Third Book. The Redeemer.
"The glory that should follow."
I. TAURUS (E).
Messiah coming to rule.
1. ORION. The redeemer breaking forth as Light.
2. ERIDANUS. Wrath breaking forth as a flood.
3. AURIGA. Safety for His redeemed in the day of wrath.
II. GEMINI (F).
Messiah as Prince of princes.
1. LEPUS. The enemy trodden under foot.
2. CANIS MAJOR. The coming glorious prince.
3. CANIS MINOR. The exalted Redeemer.
III. CANCER (F).
Messiah's redeemed possessions.
1. URSA MINOR. The lesser sheepfold.
2. URSA MAJOR. The fold and the flock.
3. ARGO. The pilgrim's arrival at home.
IV. LEO (E).
Messiah's consummated triumph.
1. HYDRA. The old serpent destroyed.
2. CRATER. The cup of wrath poured out.
3. CORVUS. The birds of prey devouring.
It will be noted that the modern names are used, but only for the purposes of readier identification. Some of these names were given in ignorance, by those who had lost the primitive signification of the twelve Signs and of the thirty-six Constellations.
The Hebrew and Arabic names of these, and of the principal stars contained in them, are full of truth, and eloquent in their teaching. Thus :
VIRGO (the Virgin). Here we have the star Al Zimach. Heb. Zemach, the branch. Isa. 4:2. Jer. 23:5, 6. Zech. 3:8; 6:12. All the other stars have cognate meanings.
COMA. The Desired (Hag. 2:7). Num. 24:17. (Egyptian Shes-nu = the desired son.)
CENTAURUS, Al Beze, the despised (Isa. 53:3).
BOOTES (Heb. bo', to come), Ps. 96:13. Heb. Arcturus (Job 9:9 = He cometh). Egyptian = Smat, one who rules.
LIBRA was anciently the Altar (accadian = Tulki). The two bright stars are to-day called in Arabic Zuben al Genubi = the price which is deficient, and Zuben al Chemali = the price which covers.
CRUX. Heb. karath, cut off (Dan. 9:26).
LUPUS. Greek name Thera, a beast. Lat. Victima. Heb. sabah, slain. In the Zodiac of Denderah = Sura, a lamb.
CORONA. Heb. 'atarah, a royal crown. Arab. Al iclil, a jewel. Its brightest star = Al phena, the shining one.
SCORPIO. Heb. 'akrab (Ps. 91:13). Coptic name = Isidis = the attack of the enemy. Arabic = Al aterah, the wounding of the coming One. The brightest star is Antares (Arab. = wounding). Heb. Lezuth, perverseness.
SERPENS. The brightest star is called (Heb.) 'anak = encompassing. Heb. kelalah = the accursed. Arab. Al hay, the reptile.
OPHIUCHUS is from Arab. Afeichus = the serpent held. The brightest star is Ras al hagus = the head of him who holds. Other names are Megeras = contending. In the Zodiac of Denderah he is Api-bau = the chief who cometh. Other stars are Triophas = treading under foot; Saiph = bruised; Carnebas = bruised.
HERCULES. In the Zodiac of Denderah called Bau = who cometh. Arab. Al giscale, the strong one. The brightest star, Ras al Gethi = the head of him who bruises.
SAGITTARIUS. Heb. kesheth (an archer) (Gen. 21:20). The brightest star, Heb. channun = the gracious one (Ps. 45:2). Accadian, Nun-ki = Prince of the earth. In Zodiac of Denderah, Pi-maere = graciousness, and Knem, He conquers.
LYRA. (Ps. 65:1.) The brightest star Vega = He shall be exalted. In Zodiac of Denderah = Fent-kar = the serpent ruled. Originally an eagle, from confusion between Heb. nesher, and shir (song, or music).
ARA, and alter upside down, pointing to Tartarus (Isa. 63:4, 5). Arab. Al mugamra = the completing or finishing (Ps. 21:9-12).
DRACO. Ends the first book. The dragon cast down. CETUS ends the second book. Leviathan bound. HYDRA ends the third book. The old serpent destroyed. Draco = trodden on. (Ps. 91:13; 74:12-14. Isa. 27:1). In Zodiac of Denderah it is a serpent under the fore-feet of Sagittarius and called Her-fent = the serpent accursed. The brightest star called Thuban = the subtle.
CAPRICORNUS = the goat of atonement. In Zodiac of Denderah and Esneh, Hu-penius = the place of the sacrifice. Heb. Gedi, the kid, or Gada, cut off. The brightest star is Al-gedi = the kid. The next is Deneb al gedi = the sacrifice of the kid.
SAGITTA, the arrow. (Ps. 38:2. Isa. 53:4, 5.) Heb. Shamad, or shamem = destroying.
AQUILA, the eagle, pierced and wounded and falling. The brightest star, Al tair = wounding. All the others are similar.
DELPHINUS. Always a fish full of life, the head upwards. Heb. Dalaph = the pouring out of water. Arab. Dalaph = coming quickly.
AQUARIUS. In the Zodiac of Denderah he has two urns. The fish seems to have come out of one of them. Heb. name Dali = water-urn or bucket (Num. 24:7). Brightest star Sa'ad al Melik = the record of the pouring forth. The next Sa'ad al Sund = who goeth and returneth (cp. Isa. 32:1, 2; 35:1, 6; 41:18; 44:2-6; 51:3).
PISCIS AUSTRALIS. The southern fish. Arab. Fom al haut = the mouth of the fish. Zodiac of Denderah = Aar, a stream.
PEGASUS. The winged horse. Zodiac of Denderah Pe and ka = Peka, or pega. Heb. pehah = the chief, and sus, a horse; name thus come down. The brightest is Markab, Heb. merhak = returning from afar.
CYGNUS. In the Zodiac of Denderah, Tes-ark = this from afar. A mighty bird, not falling dead like Aquila. Brightest star Deneb = the Judge; called also Adige = flying swiftly. The second, Al Bireo = flying quickly. Two others: Azel = who goes and returns quickly, and Fafage = gloriously shining forth.
PISCES. Egyptian name in the Zodiac of Denderah = Pi-cot Orion or Pisces Hori = the fishes (i.e. swarms and multitudes) or Him Who cometh. Heb. Dagim, the fishes (Gen. 48:16). Syr. name, Nuno = lengthened out (i.e. in posterity). Cp. Isa. 53:10. Ps. 33:12; 37:22; 115:14, 15. Isa. 61:9; 65:23; 26:15; 9:3. Jer. 30:19. Ezek. 36:10, 11; 37:26. Note the two fishes = the earthly and heavenly callings (one fish horizontal, the other looking upward). 113 stars much of the same magnitude. The brightest star is Okda = the united. The next (Arabic) Al samaca = the upheld. (Isa. 41:8-10.)
THE BAND. Egyptian name U-or = He cometh binding them together (Hos. 11:4); and breaking the band which binds them to their old enemy Cetus.
ANDROMEDA. Name in the Zodiac of Denderah is Set, which means seated as a queen. Also, Sirco = the chained. The brightest star is Al Phiratz = the broken down. The next, Mirach = the weak. The next, Al amok (Arab) = stuck down. (Isa. 54:11-14; 51:21-52:3. Jer. 14:17.)
CEPHUS. The king. In the Zodiac of Denderah Pe-ku-hor = this one cometh to rule. Cepheus is Greek from the Heb. zemah = the Branch. Ethiopian name, Hyh = a king. The brightest star is Al Deramin = coming quickly. The next is Al Phirk - the Redeemer. The next, Al Rai' = who bruises or breaks. (Jer. 31:1.)
ARIES. The ram or lamb full of vigor. Not falling in death like Capricornus. The name in the Zodiac of Denderah Tametouris Ammon = the reign of rule of Ammon. Heb. name Taleh = the lamb. Arab. Al Hamel = the sheep. Syr. Amroo, as in John 1:29. The Accadian name was Bar-Ziggar = the altar making right = the sacrifice of righteousness. The brightest star is El nath, or El natik = wounded, or slain. The next, Al Sharatan = the bruised, or wounded. Cp. Rev. 5:9-12.
CASSIOPEIA. The enthroned woman. Arabic name El seder = the freed. In the Zodiac of Denderah Set = seated as queen. Arabic Ruchba = the enthroned. The brightest star is Schedir = the freed. The next, Kaph (Heb.) = the branch. (Isa. 54:5-8; 62:3-5. Jer. 31:3-12. Ps. 45:9-17. Isa. 61:10, 11.)
CETUS. The sea monster. The great enemy bound (Rev. 20:10; cp. 20: 1-3). The name in the Zodiac of Denderah is Knem = subdued. The brightest star is Menkar = the enemy chained. The next is Diphda, or Deneb Kaitos = overthrown, or thrustdown. Another is Mira = the rebel. (Job 41:1-10. Isa. 51:22, 23; 26:21-27:1. Ps. 74:12-14.)
PERSEUS. The Breaker. Heb. Perez. Greek, Perses, or Perseus (Rom. 16:12. Mic. 2: 12, 13). Name in the Zodiac of Denderah is Kar Knem = he who fights and subdues. The brightest star is Mirfak = who helps. The next, Al Genib = who carries away. The next is Athik = who breaks.
TAURUS. Messiah coming in judgment. Chald. Tor. Hence, Arabic Al thaur; Greek, Tauros; Lat. Taurus. The common Heb. name is Shur = coming and ruling, and Re'em = pre-eminence. The brightest star is Al Debaran = The Leader or Governor. The next is El nath = wounded or slain. The group Pleiades is Kimah = heap or accumulation. (Job 9:9; 38:31, 21. Amos 5:8.) A bright star is Al Cyone = the centre. Heb. and Syr. name is Succoth = booths. Another group, Hyades = the congregated. (Deut. 33:17. Ps. 44:5. Isa. 13:11-15; 34:2-8; 26:21.)
ORION. The coming Prince. Light breaking forth, through the Redeemer. In the Zodiac of Denderah it is Ha-ga-t = this is He Who triumphs. Oarion = Heb. 'Or, light; or coming forth as light (cp. Job 9:9; 38:31. Amos 5:8). Heb. Kesil = a strong one (translated "Orion" in Job 9:9; 38:31. Amos 5:8). The brightest star is Betelgeuz = the coming of the Branch (Mal. 3:2). The next is Rigel or Rigol = the foot of him that crusheth. The next is Bellatrix = swiftly destroying. Another is Al Nitak = the wounded One. Many others with names of cumulative meanings. (See Isa. 42:13, 14; 60:1-3.)
ERIDANUS. the river of judgment. In the Zodiac of Denderah it is Peh-ta-t = the mouth of the river. The brightest star is Achernar = the after part of the river. So with the other names, going forth, flowing on (to the lower regions of the south). Dan. 7:9-11. Ps. 97:3-5; 50:3. Hab. 3:5. Isa. 30:27-33. Nah. 1:5, 6. Isa. 66:15, 16. 2Thess. 1:7, 8.
AURIGA. The Shepherd. (Isa. 40:10, 11. Ezek. 34:22). Auriga = Charioteer. The brightest star is Alioth = a she-goat. Modern Lat. name is Capella, same meaning. The next is Menkilinon = the band of the goats; bound, never to be again lost. (John 10:11.) In the Zodiac of Denderah, the shepherd carries a sceptre (Trun), the top with a goat, and bottom with a cross. (Mal. 4:1-3. Ps. 37:38-40).
GEMINI. The Twins. Name in the Zodiac of Denderah is Clusus, or Claustrum Hori = the place of Him Who cometh. The old Coptic name was Pi-Mahi = the united. Heb. Thaumim (from ta'am) = double. The root used in Ex. 26:24 (twinned together). The brightest star is Apollo = ruler or judge. The next is Hercules = who cometh to labour and suffer. Another is Al henah = hurt, wounded. (Isa. 4:2; 32:1, 2. Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:14, 15.)
LEPUS (the enemy trodden under foot). In the Zodiac of Denderah the name is Bashti-beki = falling confounded. Aratus says "chased eternally". The brightest star is Arnebo = the enemy of Him Who cometh. Other stars are Nibal = the mad; Takis, the bound; Sugia, the deceiver. (Isa. 63:3, 4.)
CANIS MAJOR. Sirius, the Prince. In Zodiac of Denderah it is Apes = the head. In Persian Planisphere = a wolf (Heb. Ze'eb). The brightest star is Sirius = the Prince. In Persian Tistrya or Tistar = the chieftain. The next is Mirzam = the prince. Another is Wesen = the shining, and another Adhara = the glorious. Many other cognate names. (Isa. 9:6; 55:4. Dan. 8:23, 25.)
CANIS MINOR. The second Dog. In the Zodiac of Denderah it is Sebak = conquering, victorious. The brightest star is Procyon = Redeemer. The next is Gomeisa (Arabic) = the burdened, bearing for others. Many other cognate names. (Isa. 49:24-26; 59:19, 20; 53:12.)
CANCER. The Crab. Messiah's possessions held fast. In the Zodiac of Denderah and Esneh it is a sacred beetle. Its name there give is Klaria = cattle-folds. Arabic name is Al Sarta'n = He Who holds or binds together (Gen. 49:11). The Greek name is Karkinos = encircling; the same as the Lat. Cancer, from Arabic Khan an Inn, and Ker, or Cer = encircling. The ancient Accadian is Su-kul-na = the seizer, or possessor of seed. A bright cluster is called Praesepe = a multitude or offspring. The brightest star is Tegmine = holding. Another is Acubene = the sheltering or hiding-place. Another, Ma'alaph = assembled thousands. North and south of Praesepe are two bright stars, Assellus North and Assellus South; their sign is 69, and called the two asses, thus connecting it with Cancer, which is the sign of Issachar (cp. Gen. 49:14. Num. 2:5).
URSA MINOR. The little Bear = the lesser sheep-fold. The brightest star of Ursa Minor is Dubheh = a herd. Arabic Dubah means cattle. Heb. Dober = a fold, from dobe' = rest or security, rendered "strength" in Deut. 33:25. See R.V. marg. All points to this (cp. Judg. 5:16). The Heb. Dob = a bear. So Arabic Dub, and Persian Deeb or Dob. Hence the mistake. The brightest star is Al riccaba = the turned or ridden on, denoting it as the Polar star. The Greeks called it Kunosoura = Cynosure, but this word is Accadian. An-nas-sur-ra = high in rising; or high in heavenly position. The next bright star is Kochab = waiting Him Who cometh.
URSA MAJOR. The great Bear = the Fold and the Flock (Obad. 17-19). In Job 9:9 and 38:31, 32 it is called 'Ash and her offspring. A.V. = Arcturus and her sons. R.V. = Bear and his train (marg., sons). Arabs still call it Al Naish or Annaish = the assembled together as in a fold. The brightest star is Dubhe = a flock, which gives its name to the two constellations. The next is Merach = the flock (Arabic = purchased). The next is Phaeda or Pharda = numbered or guarded (Ps. 147:4). Another is called Benet Naish = daughters of the assembly. Another, Al Kaid = the assembled. Many other cognate names. (Cp. Ezek. 34:12-16.)
ARGO. The Ship = the Pilgrims, safe at home. In the Egyptian Planisphere there are two ships (like the two folds). they occupy one-half of the south meridians. The brightest star is Canopus = the possession of Him Who cometh. Other names are Sephina = the multitude. Tureis = the possession. Asmidiska = the released who travel, &c. (Jer. 30:10, 11. Isa. 60:4-9.)
LEO. The Lion. Messiah's consummated triumph. In the Zodiac of Denderah it is Pi Mentikeon = the pouting out (of Divine wrath). The tree constellations crystallize the truth :
1. Hydra = the old serpent destroyed.
2. Crater = the cup of wrath poured out on him.
3. Corvus = the bird of prey devouring him.
The Denderah picture exhibits all four in one. The Syr. name is Aryo = the rending lion. Arab. Al Asad = the lion leaping forth as a flame. The brightest star is Regulus = treading under foot (as pictured). The next is Denebola = the Judge or Lord Who cometh. The next is Al Giebha = the exaltation. Another is Zosma = shining forth. All the others are cognate. (Gen. 49:8, 9. Num. 24:8, 9. Amos 3:4, 8. Isa. 42:13.)
HYDRA. The Old Serpent. Hydra = he is abhorred. The brightest star is Cor Hydra = the heart of Hydra. Its ancient name is Al phard = the put away. Another is Al Drian = the abhorred. Another is Minchar al Sugia = the piercing of the deceiver.
CRATER. The Cup [of wrath poured out]. (Ps. 75:8; 11:6. Rev. 14:10; 16:19.) The constellation has thirteen stars, (cp. Ap. 10).
CORVUS. The Raven. The birds of prey devouring. The name in the Zodiac of Denderah, Her-na = the enemy breaking up. there are nine stars (see Ap. 10). The brightest star is Chiba (Num. 23:8) = accursed. Another is Minchar al Gorab = the raven tearing to pieces.
Thus end the Scriptures of the Heavens. This is the story they tell forth. This is the "speech" they "utter". This is the "knowledge" they "shew forth". There is no articulate speech or voice; and no words are heard; but, their sayings have gone out into all the world (Ps. 19:1-6).
They are "for SEASONS".
Not only are the stars made for signs ('othoth, from the root 'athah = to come), but for Seasons. These are not the four seasons of the year, but Cycles of time. The figure Polysyndeton (see Ap. 6) in gen. 1:14 emphasizes this : "and for seasons, and for days, and years". The word means appointed times. (Cp. Gen. 17:21; 18:14; 21:2.) Thus the sun, moon, and stars are for "signs" (things to come), and for "seasons" (appointed times).
There are no less that ten of these cycles, all of them different; not concentric, but yet all of them coinciding at creation, but never since : like a number of hoops of different sizes hanging from a nail. This shows that they must have had a given simultaneous start.
1. They cycle of 24 hours for the day, an evening and morning.
2. The revolution of the Moon round the earth.
3. The lunar cycle, which began at the same moment as the solar cycle.
4. The daily revolution of the Sun, which places him on the meridian at noon each day.
5. The Solar Cycle, coinciding with the first of the seven years of lunar motion and repeating itself every 365 days.
6. The beginning of a Week of seven days on the first day of the week, of the first month of the first year of the first solar cycle.
7. The first Eclipse of a cycle of eighteen years and eleven days, to which the ancient astronomers gave the name of Saros; each Saros containing an average of seventy eclipses, divided into two portions of 594 years and 666 years, making together 1,260 years.
8. Besides these, there is the period of the Heliacal rising of Sirius, in a cycle of 162 years.
9. The Transits of Venus.
10. And the grand cycle known as the Precession of the Equinoxes.
All these combine and unite in showing that the chronology of Archbishop Usher was substantially correct. And this proves that the inflated chronology of modern historians and theologians is entirely un-scientific, being the hypothesis of men who dabbled in things outside their own sphere, and of which they were incompetent to form a correct judgment.http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append12.html
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HisGrace
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Proverbs 10:14
Wise men store up knowledge, but the mouth of a fool invites ruin.
Proverbs 29:8
Mockers stir up a city, but wise men turn away anger.
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BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace writes quote:
You have a great imagination BORN AGAIN.
no, no, no. Imagination is one thing I lack:
2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"bring that star down to earth" 
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HisGrace
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You have a great imagination BORN AGAIN. I think you better hone your 'discernment skills'. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) Carefully read the scriptures my friend.
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BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace writes: quote:
I understand that the Jesus and his family were in their home by time the wise men arrived, but they were gifts nonetheless, honoring His birth. {bold by BORN AGAIN}
whereas the magi may have thought they were "gifts honoring his birth", God had to turn this around and the gifts had to be used as travel money to finance their flight into Misr Egypt.
HisGrace also writes quote:
Did God guide the wise men to the house of the babe? Obviously yes, because the scriptures clearly tell that once again the star appeared.
but this could not have been an astronomical star, because stars are so far away that if a person goes outside at night, it is impossible to tell over whose house it is--nay, the stars appear to be over everyone's houses; nay, over everyone's city; nay, over everyone's state.
The angels are referred to as "stars" in the Bible, and therefore this "star" which led the magi from the east must have been an angel, and in this case, an evil angel who guided them to the house where the child Jesus was, so that Lucifer-Satan could get the baby killed.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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Did God guide the wise men to the house of the babe?. Obviously yes, because the scriptures clearly tell that once again the star appeared.
Matthew 2:9-12 9 After this interview the wise men went their way. Once again the star appeared to them, guiding them to Bethlehem. It went ahead of them and stopped over the place where the child was. When they saw the star, they were filled with joy!
They entered the house where the child and his mother, Mary, were, and they fell down before him and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasure chests and gave him gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. But when it was time to leave, they went home another way, because God had warned them in a dream not to return to Herod.
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HisGrace
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I understand that the Jesus and his family were in their home by time the wise men arrived, but they were gifts nonetheless, honouring his birth.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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His Grace,
Maybe he got his Bible at the ACLU bookstore? ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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HisGrace
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Someone said on another thread that no one brought gifts to Jesus. ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Matthew 2:11
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
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HisGrace
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This is when God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, and He tells Moses how He is going to rescue his people from the hard slave drivers and lead them out of Egypt into a spacious land flowing with milk and honey. Moses feels very inadequate to go before Pharaoh himself and also to have the overwhelming responsibility of leading the Israelites out of Egypt, but God answers him and says, (Ex,3:12-22)
"I will be with you. And this will serve as proof that I have sent you: When you have brought the Israelites out of Egypt, you will return here to worship God at this very mountain."
But Moses protested, "If I go to the people of Israel and tell them, `The God of your ancestors has sent me to you,' they won't believe me. They will ask, `Which god are you talking about? What is his name?' Then what should I tell them?"
God replied, "I AM THE ONE WHO ALWAYS IS. Just tell them, 'I AM has sent me to you.' " God also said, "Tell them, `The LORD, the God of your ancestors--the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob--has sent me to you.' This will be my name forever; it has always been my name, and it will be used throughout all generations.
(In spite of Moses' arguing with God, he was obedient and He would reward him abundantly for his obeying and honouring the sacrifices that were brought before God.)
"The leaders of the people of Israel will accept your message. Then all of you must go straight to the king of Egypt and tell him, `The LORD, the God of the Hebrews, has met with us. Let us go on a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God.'
"But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go except under heavy pressure. So I will reach out and strike at the heart of Egypt with all kinds of miracles. Then at last he will let you go.
And I will see to it that the Egyptians treat you well. They will load you down with gifts so you will not leave empty-handed. The Israelite women will ask for silver and gold jewelry and fine clothing from their Egyptian neighbors and their neighbors' guests. With this clothing, you will dress your sons and daughters. In this way, you will plunder the Egyptians!"
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HisGrace
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In the Bible those who were faithful in giving were always rewarded and blessed.
Look in Matthew 2 when the wise men went to visit Jesus with their gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. A star guided them to where Jesus and his family lived, and before returning to their homes God blessed them by warning them not to return home. (as in verse 12.) "But when it was time to leave, they went home another way, because God had warned them in a dream not to return to Herod." Herod was very angry that they had gone to visit Jesus.
The Widow at Zarephath
1 Kings 17:8-24Then the LORD said to Elijah, "Go and live in the village of Zarephath, near the city of Sidon. There is a widow there who will feed you. I have given her my instructions."
So he went to Zarephath. As he arrived at the gates of the village, he saw a widow gathering sticks, and he asked her, "Would you please bring me a cup of water?" 11As she was going to get it, he called to her, "Bring me a bite of bread, too."
But she said, "I swear by the LORD your God that I don't have a single piece of bread in the house. And I have only a handful of flour left in the jar and a little cooking oil in the bottom of the jug. I was just gathering a few sticks to cook this last meal, and then my son and I will die."
But Elijah said to her, "Don't be afraid! Go ahead and cook that `last meal,' but bake me a little loaf of bread first. Afterward there will still be enough food for you and your son. For this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: There will always be plenty of flour and oil left in your containers until the time when the LORD sends rain and the crops grow again!"
So she did as Elijah said, and she and Elijah and her son continued to eat from her supply of flour and oil for many days. For no matter how much they used, there was always enough left in the containers, just as the LORD had promised through Elijah.
Some time later, the woman's son became sick. He grew worse and worse, and finally he died.
She then said to Elijah, "O man of God, what have you done to me? Have you come here to punish my sins by killing my son?"
But Elijah replied, "Give me your son." And he took the boy's body from her, carried him up to the upper room, where he lived, and laid the body on his bed. Then Elijah cried out to the LORD, "O LORD my God, why have you brought tragedy on this widow who has opened her home to me, causing her son to die?"
And he stretched himself out over the child three times and cried out to the LORD, "O LORD my God, please let this child's life return to him." The LORD heard Elijah's prayer, and the life of the child returned, and he came back to life! Then Elijah brought him down from the upper room and gave him to his mother. "Look, your son is alive!" he said.
Then the woman told Elijah, "Now I know for sure that you are a man of God, and that the LORD truly speaks through you."
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