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Topic: Why is there little mention in the OT of people having unclean spirits as in the NT?
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epouraniois
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KJV
Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying
divination
G4436
Πύθων
Puthōn
poo'-thone
From Πυθώ Puthō (the name of the region where Delphi, the seat of the famous oracle, was located); a Python, that is, (by analogy with the supposed diviner there) inspiration (soothsaying): - divination.
divination
G4436
Πύθων
Puthōn
Thayer Definition:
1) in Greek mythology the name of the Pythian serpent or dragon that dwelt in the region of Pytho at the foot of Parnassus in Phocis, and was said to have guarded the oracle at Delphi and been slain by Apollo
2) a spirit of divination
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from Putho (the name of the region where Delphi, the seat of the famous oracle, was located)
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BORN AGAIN
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epouraniois, you write quote:
Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood.
First of all, python is a snake or serpent, and when I read what you wrote, that "Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood," I thought of Lucifer-Satan speaking to Eve through the form of a serpent, and that the LORD God said to the serpent,
Genesis 3:14
And the LORD God said to the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every animal of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and dust shall you eat all the days of your life.
And you wrote: "Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood."
BORN AGAIN by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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BORN AGAIN
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dear brother epouraniois, I appreciate your Greek knowledge and you setting forth some Greek on this CBBS.
You wrote this quote:
The A.V., in the margin, draws attention to the fact that ‘spirit of divination’ may be rendered ‘spirit of Python’. {bold by BA}
I looked this up, since it seemed a bit wild for Christianity, but you are right, the Greek says "spirit of Python" or "Pythonic spirit." (Pocket Interlinear New Testament, Jay P. Green, Sr., publ. by Baker)
So do you explain in your post above what a "spirit of Python" is? One thing is sure, this spirit was right away talking up a storm of "who this Jesus of Nazareth was."
The demons had evidently adopted a strategy of publically declaring who Jesus of Nazareth was, hoping thereby to more quickly bring about a confrontation by the established priesthood and elders and scribes at Jerusalem, especially of the Pharisees.
The demons had decided to declare openly who Jesus of Nazareth was, to incite the confrontation, the watching and spying on Him, by familiars sent by the Pharisees.
Therefore when the Lord Yahshua-Jesus was there in His Vineyard, there was suddenly a great outburst of demonic activity, as sister Carmela also said, only in a different way, in some of her paragraphs above.
The Son of the LORD was here! It was time for action. Lucifer-Satan must have known that this Son was the Princely heir who was to inherit the Vineyard as the Prince in the oblation of land in Ezekiel 45.
Okay, back to "spirit of Python". What kind of spirit was that?
BORN AGAIN by the of Messiah Yahshua-Jesus of Nazareth, but born in Bethlehem of Judah, of the family of David, as the OT said should happen. Micah 5:2
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BORN AGAIN
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I modify My Topic title to say "so little" mention instead of "no" meantion, because that is more correct.
And I agree with epouraniois that there is no division between the Old Testament and New Testament, or better, Old Covenant and New Covenant, it is one seamless garment, so to say.
But that makes it all the more interesting that suddenly when the Lord appeared...
Oh, that's it, until now the Lord had not appeared on earth and so the imps-demons had never had to act up[/b]; everything was cool, Israel wasn't listening to the LORD YHWH of Israel anymore...
But when the Lord {Greek, kurios} Yahshua-Jesus appeared, the Son had come to His Vineyard, and suddenly the demons had to "act up"; the Son was here, who was the heir of the earth, the coming Prince in that oblation of land by Jerusalem.
Here was the Son; Lucifer-Satan has gone out to meet the Son in the wilderness where the Holy Spirit had driven the Lord Yahshua-Jesus. Did Lucifer-Satan know this was the Prince? They knew each other in heaven?
So that would explain why the demons suddenly acted up at the start of the New Covenant.
(I am indebted for some of these thoughts to Alfred Edersheim, author of The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah. Available online for free to read, or to buy online. Go to Google and type in the title of the book, and choose the one done by www.biblestudy.com, they're great.)
BORN AGAIN,
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epouraniois
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That is what unclean spirits do, they practice witchcraft. Here is a study on the subject, bearing in mind that just because the calander went from bc to ad, and the Book is called NT and OT, they are only conventions, totally unimportant in their own standings. The names OT and NT are not quite accurate, as we are truly presented with a New and Old Covenant, with many revlations, containing one standard of truth, defiled in every way of deceit by the great spiritual foe who uses every means of cunning craftiness to hide the authority of the high and mighty position the One God:
‘And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: the same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this she did many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour’ (Acts 16:16-18).
The A.V., in the margin, draws attention to the fact that ‘spirit of divination’ may be rendered ‘spirit of Python’. As this encounter with the powers of darkness at Philippi occurs at a most critical period in the history of the preaching of the gospel, we must seek to get as full an understanding as possible of what this expression involves.
Speaking of the agency of evil spirits, the Rev. Walter Scott writes:
‘Of all the devices which he has ever employed for these purposes, one of the most successful has been to invest, as far as he was able, error with the form, and to array it in the beauties of truth; to imitate all the methods which God has adopted to demonstrate the divinity of the true religion; and thus to transform himself into an angel of light. If God has raised up true, Satan has raised up lying prophets. If God has commissioned His servants to work real miracles, Satan has employed his to exhibit counterfeit ones. If to the Jews were committed the oracles of God, to the heathen were committed the pretended oracles of Delphos and Dodona, and many others. If the intrinsic excellence and the purifying tendency of the doctrines of the gospel, and the beauties of holiness adorning the character of those who have been commissioned to publish them, are amongst the means which God has employed to recommend His truth, the servants of Satan have been transformed as the ministers of righteousness, and have pretended deep concern for the happiness of those to whom they have delivered their message. And it has been thought, and is maintained at the present day by some, that his giving answers by the oracles to which our attention is now to be directed, has been amongst the principal means by which he has carried on his intercourse with our fallen sinful world’ (Existence of Evil Spirits).
There is a growing tendency to ‘explain away’ the references to demon possession which we find in the
Scriptures. It is suggested that our Lord merely accommodated Himself to the superstitions of the age, and that, if He had lived today, He would have called the disease by its true name of ‘epilepsy’. The symptoms recorded in Matthew 17:15, Mark 9:17,18 and Luke 9:39 are certainly very like those of epilepsy, but the Lord’s words clearly attribute these very symptoms to actual demon possession. The demoniacs of the Gospels do not express themselves as they would if they were insane or hypochondriacal (Matt. 8:29; Mark 1:24); they answer questions put to them in a rational way. We also learn that these demoniacs knew that Jesus was the Son of God (Matt. 8:29), and the Christ (Luke 4:41).
The damsel that followed the apostle at Philippi was ‘possessed with a spirit of Python’. Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood. The Serpent was killed by the god Apollo, to whom it was supposed that the Serpent’s powers of prophecy and oracular utterance were transferred. Apollo’s oracle was at Delphi, where a priestess called Pythia gave cryptic replies to questioners’ enquiries.
The following are some of the cases of Satanic opposition encountered at various stages of the apostolic witness:
(1) At the entry of the gospel into Samaria, we find Satanic opposition represented by Simon the Sorcerer. This man ‘believed’ but had very questionable ideas concerning the bestowal of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:9-24).
(2) At the entry of the gospel into Galatia, under the separate ministry of Paul and Barnabas, we find again
Satanic opposition represented by Elymas the Sorcerer, who was smitten with blindness, ‘not seeing the sun
for a season’ (Acts 13:6-11).
(3) At the entry of the gospel into Europe, we find Satanic opposition represented by the damsel possessed with the spirit of Python. This spirit was cast out (Acts 16:16-18).
(4) When Athens was visited, the city of the world’s wisdom, the name of the Lord was confused with those of the demons that played a prominent part in Greek idolatry, for the philosophers said: ‘He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods (Greek, demons)’ (Acts 17:18).
(5) At the separation of the church from the synagogue, we read that, ‘certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus’. These men were overpowered and wounded (Acts 19:13-16).
There is no reason to doubt that ‘Python’ was simply another name for ‘that old Serpent, the Devil’, and the apostle was not going beyond his experience when he spoke the comforting words of Romans 16:20: ‘The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly’.
We observe here - for our learning and warning - that this demon-possessed woman spoke words of truth. No fault can be found with her statement: ‘These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation’ (Acts 16:17).
This was certainly true, and the God Who sent them is given His true place and title. ‘The Most High ...’ is a title used elsewhere in the Acts by Stephen (Acts 7:48). They were also truly described as ‘servants’ on their own confession, for Paul uses the same word (doulos) again and again to define his own position as ‘a servant of Jesus Christ’ (Rom. 1:1). There are but five words used in the original for the phrase:
‘Which show unto us the way of salvation’, and it would be difficult for the wisest Christian to express in five words a truer and fuller synopsis of apostolic witness. The word ‘show’ here is kataggello, used in Acts 13:5,38 and 15:36 and elsewhere for Paul’s ‘preaching’. Also, the use of the word ‘Way’ as a symbol of the gospel is masterly; the same word is used elsewhere in Acts 9:2; 13:10; 18:26; 19:9,23; 22:4 and 24:14. Here, then, we have a perfect presentation of truth.
The apostle and his companions are ‘servants’, the One they serve is ‘The Most High God’, and their great work is ‘to shew unto us the way of salvation’. Yet we read that the apostle was grieved and commanded the spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, to come out of the woman - ‘And he came out the same hour’. Satan has no conscience and no honour. He will persecute, imprison, and kill, or, on the other hand, he will quote Scripture and utter the most irreproachable commendation of the gospel and its messengers, but he has but one end - to deceive, to corrupt, to keep the Son of God, if possible, from His rightful throne.
From the Darby Bible
Lev 20:27 And if there be a man or a woman in whom is a spirit of Python or of divination, they shall certainly be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood is upon them.
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or one that inquireth of a spirit of Python, or a soothsayer, or one that consulteth the dead.
1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.
1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me him up whom I shall name to thee.
1Ch 10:13 And Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he committed against Jehovah, because of the word of Jehovah which he kept not, and also for having inquired of the spirit of Python, asking counsel of it;
Act 16:16 And it came to pass as we were going to prayer that a certain female slave, having a spirit of Python, met us, who brought much profit to her masters by prophesying.
In Acts 16:16 we read that the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python ‘brought her masters much gain by sooth- saying’. The word ergasia, ‘gain’ occurs four times in the Acts, and in each case we find it to be the motive behind the persecution of the apostle (Acts 16:16,19; 19:24, 25). The flame of persecution, which was fanned by the Evil One, was directed to one end - to destroy the testimony of the gospel. The kind of instrument used to this end was immaterial so long as the end itself was achieved, and so we find him using both Jews and Gentiles. At one time it was Saul of Tarsus, a Hebrew and a Pharisee, whose moral uprightness was such that he could write of that period of his life: ‘touching the righteousness of the law blameless’. Saul would have scorned to have followed the rabble, or to have been moved by the desire for gain; nevertheless he persecuted the Church. The Jews, either by their religious leaders, or because of their own fanatical adherence to the tradition of their fathers, persecuted the Church. But we find that the Gentiles also persecuted the Church, moved by the fact that the Christian faith, by supplanting their idolatries, robbed them of their gains, and at length, Rome, the protector of the apostle during the Acts, became the great persecutor of the Church under the awful rule of Nero and his successors.
During the period covered by the first fifteen chapters of the Acts we read of persecution arising from the following causes:
(1) The leaders of Israel were grieved because the apostles preached, through Jesus, the resurrection of the dead (Acts 4).
(2) The leaders of Israel were cut to the heart by Stephen’s speech. They stoned him, and another persecution was begun (Acts 7 and 8:1).
(3) Saul of Tarsus, being troubled in his conscience (he was kicking against the goad at his conversion, 9:5) organised a great persecution of the Church (Acts 8 and 9).
(4) The Jews, being incensed at Saul’s conversion and subsequent witness, took counsel to kill him (Acts 9:23,29).
(5) Herod stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the Church. James was killed. Peter was imprisoned. He saw that it pleased the Jews (Acts 12).
(6) The Jews at Antioch, filled with envy at the evangelizing of the Gentiles, stirred up opposition - and expelled the apostles (Acts 13).
(7) The Jews from Antioch and Iconium (apparently from envy and hatred) followed Paul to Lystra and stoned him, leaving him for dead (Acts 14).
At Acts 16 we meet with the first Gentile persecution and another factor enters into the situation: ‘They saw that the hope of their gain was gone’. In a world composed as it is of religious zeal and sordid greed, it is practically impossible to witness for the truth without touching the interests and arousing the antagonism of one or other of these representative opponents. When one reads a funeral eulogy which declares that the man who has died ‘had not an enemy in the world’ one is inclined to think: He did nothing, therefore, in the cause of truth. Returning to Acts 16, we find that Paul and Silas are caught and taken before the rulers, the charge against them being:
‘These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, and teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans’ (Acts 16:20,21).
‘And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul’ (Acts 19:11).
Why should God have wrought ‘special’ miracles by the hands of Paul, just at this point? The word translated ‘special’ is not easy to explain, because it changes its meaning and application at different times. The word tugchano means ‘to hit a mark, as with an arrow’ (Homer II. xii. 394), and then, by an easy transition, ‘to hit upon’, ‘to light upon’, with the element of chance attached, as in Acts 17:17, ‘to meet by chance’ (paratugchano). Ho tuchon means ‘an everyday man’, or, with the negative, ‘no ordinary man’; and the word is used by Josephus in describing Herod’s temple as ‘no common work’.
Come back now to the record of Acts 19, notice the two kinds of miracles that are particularized.
‘So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them’ (Acts 19:12).
These miracles are said to be ‘special’ - miracles with ‘no chance work about them’, intended to ‘hit the mark’. Paul was in a city full of ‘magic’ (see 19:19). In his opening ministry at Philippi he had been the subject of Satanic attack through the instrumentality of the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python, and here again in Ephesus we have the same sort of contrast. The complete failure of the Jewish exorcists to cast out the evil spirit by calling over him the name of ‘Jesus’, is exactly parallel with Paul’s refusal to allow Satan to bear witness to the fact that he was showing to the people ‘the way of salvation’.
As a result both of the positive witness of the ‘special’ miracles, and utter failure of the Jewish exorcists, we read that ‘fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified’. Moreover, there was a public confession and a burning of the books relating to ‘curious arts’, And they reckoned up the prices of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. .
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Carmela
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I think most of those scriptures are referring to witchcraft.
I would say that in the OT times, people with unclean spirits were cast out of the villages and not discussed. They were shunned because people didn't understand what was wrong with them since sin was over taking the world. God's commandments were there, but many people kept turning their backs on God. The people would keep the commands but they were done out of rituals, not from a heart of love toward God. That's why Jesus said this:
Mark 7:6-9
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
(KJV)
When God sent prophets to speak to the people about His plans of distruction that would come if they didn't turn to Him, the people choose to follow the false prophets instead. They chose to live in their sin.
Also, Jesus hadn't come yet to expose the darkness so people couldn't see the truth that was right before them. They were living in the devil's domain and didn't even know it.
Jesus came to expose the darkness so when the demon possessed showed up, He knew exactly what was wrong with those people and He exposed the demons within them.
They lived in darkness, so they were blind to what Satan and his demons were doing all around them.
John 3:18-20
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
(KJV)
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epouraniois
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Darby Bible:
Lev 20:27 And if there be a man or a woman in whom is a spirit of Python or of divination, they shall certainly be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood is upon them.
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or one that inquireth of a spirit of Python, or a soothsayer, or one that consulteth the dead.
1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.
1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me him up whom I shall name to thee.
1Ch 10:13 And Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he committed against Jehovah, because of the word of Jehovah which he kept not, and also for having inquired of the spirit of Python, asking counsel of it;
Act 16:16 And it came to pass as we were going to prayer that a certain female slave, having a spirit of Python, met us, who brought much profit to her masters by prophesying.
AV:
Lev 20:6 And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 20:6 -
familiar:
Lev_20:27, Lev_19:26, Lev_19:31; Deu_18:10-14; Isa_8:19
go:
Exo_34:15, Exo_34:16; Num_15:39; Psa_73:27; Eze_6:9; Hos_4:12
cut him:
1Ch_10:13, 1Ch_10:14
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WildB
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1Sam.21
1. [13] And he changed his behaviour before them, and feigned himself mad in their hands, and scrabbled on the doors of the gate, and let his spittle fall down upon his beard.
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That is all.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I forgot to address one question. It is quite possible that there were demons in the Old Testament Days. Remember that people acted with a demon like those who are mentally ill. NO! NO! NO! I am not saying all mental illness is a demon. But, there are cases today when a demon is a cause of a mental illness. So yes, it is possible that people had demons back then but did not understand what was happening. There could have been those who were not God's children who had demons in them that allowed them to see the future. This is how people see the future today who are not Christians, they hear from demons. People go on TV today saying that they can talk to the dead. The Bible makes it clear this is wrong. These people talk to demons that claim to talk to the dead. Have you ever heard any of them proclaim the Gospel? No they tell people that everyone is going to Heaven. Why? Because the devil does not want people to believe in hell.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Could it be that the devil was working over time during that period when Jesus was on the earth. If the devil could have caused Jesus to stumble, there would have been no hope for mankind. Do I believe demons still exist? Yes. I believe they are alive and working today on earth. Do I believe all sins are caused by demons? No. But I do believe that demons do tempt Christians and non Christians. I believe it is no accident that many killers say that a voice told them to do it. I believe that voice is the voice of a demon. Demons will not be completely put under until Jesus puts them in either the lake of fire or the pit with the devil.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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BORN AGAIN
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What is curious is that in the New Testament, suddenly all these people appear who have an unclean spirit or are oppressed by demons.
How come there is practically no mention of such people in the Old Testament?
And then there is Jesus's statement:
Luke 10:18
And he said to them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Where did all the unclean spirits and demons suddenly come from in New Testament times that suddenly there is so much mention of it in the NT?
Did it have anything to do with:
1 John 3:8
He that commita sin is of the devil; for the devil sina from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Was this demonized phenomenon of the NT just a temporary phenomenon, in the sense that, with the Son of God having come to establish that He is Very God, that Lucifer-Satan was compelled, as pretender, to temporarily cause serious injury and destruction through temporarily worse oppression, as the Messiah was for healing and salvation?
Is this also part of it?
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you dwell in them. But woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down to you, having great wrath, because he know that he has but a short time.
Was this a period of temporary liberty for the demons who had been "shackled by the restrictions of heaven" and now, finding themselves on earth and in a certain amount of unrestricted ability, even Lucifer-Satan losing some control, but having only said, "Go at it, demon boys, do whatever you can do disrupt this 'holy' scene."
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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