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Author Topic: Guidance of God
JohnL
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Tim Spong said:
"How much more then is God able to prevent spiritual deception unless it was some kind of righteous trial for our spiritual benefit."

There's something to what Tim said, based on what Jesus said on the sermon on the mount:

Luke 11:11-13 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
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There're also many verses about the self-righteous, or those who assume they're eternally saved.

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Matthew 7:22-23 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Is it safe to assume once saved, always saved? The fall of Lucifer and a third of the angels in heaven, the fall of Adam and Eve, and the fall of Judah and the 10 tribes of Israel should indicate that those who are smug in their self-proclaimed salvation, might not be eternally secure.

The apostle Paul said:
Philippians 2:12-13 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, ... work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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"as ye have always obeyed" is the key. Just as Israel disobeyed and the gospel of salvation was sent to the gentiles, will those who assume OSAS get away with unrepentant disobedience?

Jesus said to the pharisees who were smug that they and Israel were the children of the kingdom:

Matthew 8:11-12 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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The writer to the Hebrews kind of summed it up:
Hebrews 6:8-10 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. [[not just another sermon for a larger offering]]
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John

Posts: 119 | From: Portland, OR | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
timspong
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If it were within our power would we not prevent someone from being decieved?

How much more then is God able to prevent spiritual deception unless it was some kind of righteous trial for our spiritual benefit.

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Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong

Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PetriFB
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnL:
There’s some good words of wisdom about deceiving spirits in your book, even though the english is a little broken.

In your chapter about passiveness as a false means to seek God’s will, sometimes it can be a precondition for evil spirits to function, --

quote:
“In addition to this, it is good to notice, that empty mind and passive condition are one of the most important preconditions for that, that the evil spirits can function. For the wrong anointment requires always the condition of passiveness, and therefore for example mediums, spirit healers, onlookers of crystal ball, try to get there by Oriental meditation forms, by breath and concentration practices, by visualising or by other comparable methods - in other words methods, which lead only to the subordination of the evil spirits and which are not from God.”

In your chapter about deceiving guiding spirits, in which passively accepting the spirits to be the Holy Spirit can be misleading, --

quote:
“He doesn't observe, that this perfect giving up of whole essence to invisible powers without knowing, how to distinguish the powers of God from the powers of Satan, forms to inexperienced believer a very large danger.”

In the same chapter, someone who thinks he’s praying to “some God, who is in the atmosphere, or in us being God…leads this sooner or later to praying of evil spirits.” Your emphasis is to pray to God, who “is in the heaven on his throne.”

quote:
“For if someone starts to pray to some God, who is in the atmosphere, or in us being God - which he can continually see as an internal vision - leads this sooner or later to praying of evil spirits. In other words it leads to praying of evil spirits, because the men tries to verify the person of God to his inner most or to the close atmosphere, and not understand, that God, whom we pray to, is in the highest heaven on his throne."
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I think this is where many who take Jesus’ words out of context, that “the kingdom of heaven is within you” can fall prey to deceiving spirits within. Because God the heavenly father, -- is in the highest heavens, high above all principalities and powers.

This quote says to ignore the evil spirits in church and worship God only, and God will take care of the evil spirits.

quote [prophetic utterance]:
He said: "Don’t pay any attention to the presence of evil spirits. Praise and worship me. You are my people; this house has been consecrated serving of me. Concentrate on to praise me, and I take care of evil spirits"

I agree to a certain extent. True worship of and prayer to God will drive away many evil spirits, but sometimes it’s necessary to rebuke in Jesus name the occult forces that have established a stronghold, either in the church or in the individual.

Also, the Holy Spirit does dwell within the true believer, and it’s important to know the purity and true guidance of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ Jesus, and the deceiving spirits that come in many disguises as related in the book. There's always an impurity about evil spirits no matter how good the counterfeit disguise.

John

Amen John .....
Posts: 162 | From: Finland | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
JohnL
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There’s some good words of wisdom about deceiving spirits in your book, even though the english is a little broken.

In your chapter about passiveness as a false means to seek God’s will, sometimes it can be a precondition for evil spirits to function, --

quote:
“In addition to this, it is good to notice, that empty mind and passive condition are one of the most important preconditions for that, that the evil spirits can function. For the wrong anointment requires always the condition of passiveness, and therefore for example mediums, spirit healers, onlookers of crystal ball, try to get there by Oriental meditation forms, by breath and concentration practices, by visualising or by other comparable methods - in other words methods, which lead only to the subordination of the evil spirits and which are not from God.”

In your chapter about deceiving guiding spirits, in which passively accepting the spirits to be the Holy Spirit can be misleading, --

quote:
“He doesn't observe, that this perfect giving up of whole essence to invisible powers without knowing, how to distinguish the powers of God from the powers of Satan, forms to inexperienced believer a very large danger.”

In the same chapter, someone who thinks he’s praying to “some God, who is in the atmosphere, or in us being God…leads this sooner or later to praying of evil spirits.” Your emphasis is to pray to God, who “is in the heaven on his throne.”

quote:
“For if someone starts to pray to some God, who is in the atmosphere, or in us being God - which he can continually see as an internal vision - leads this sooner or later to praying of evil spirits. In other words it leads to praying of evil spirits, because the men tries to verify the person of God to his inner most or to the close atmosphere, and not understand, that God, whom we pray to, is in the highest heaven on his throne."
--------

I think this is where many who take Jesus’ words out of context, that “the kingdom of heaven is within you” can fall prey to deceiving spirits within. Because God the heavenly father, -- is in the highest heavens, high above all principalities and powers.

This quote says to ignore the evil spirits in church and worship God only, and God will take care of the evil spirits.

quote [prophetic utterance]:
He said: "Don’t pay any attention to the presence of evil spirits. Praise and worship me. You are my people; this house has been consecrated serving of me. Concentrate on to praise me, and I take care of evil spirits"

I agree to a certain extent. True worship of and prayer to God will drive away many evil spirits, but sometimes it’s necessary to rebuke in Jesus name the occult forces that have established a stronghold, either in the church or in the individual.

Also, the Holy Spirit does dwell within the true believer, and it’s important to know the purity and true guidance of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit through faith in Christ Jesus, and the deceiving spirits that come in many disguises as related in the book. There's always an impurity about evil spirits no matter how good the counterfeit disguise.

John

Posts: 119 | From: Portland, OR | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
PetriFB
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Interesting article about guidance:


Do you struggle with the guidance? Have you considered, how to act in every kind of situation, and how you can generally distinguish God’s guidance from wrong guidance, or can those generally distinguish?

We are going to treat this difficult subject on the next lines. We are going to examine the most common matters being connected with guidance, such as, what is the meaning of the word in guidance, what is the position of prophesies, how to react to the voices and dreams and other important matters. Of them we try to take into view some essential points, because we easily may make mistakes just in those matters. However it is true, that mistakes, which we have made on these areas, are often the best teachers. Many matters we learn unfortunately through mistakes.

However, main emphasis on the next lines is there, how to recognise guidance, which comes from wrong source and demons, and how it distinguishes from God’s guidance. For this matter is important, because the danger of going astray always exists, if we don't know characteristics of God’s guidance and how he acts. For example Jessie Penn-Lewis and Evan Roberts tell in their book "War on the Saints", how like this got to take place in many people’s life, when demon powers foiled the large awakening of Wales. In other words they tell, how demons penetrated to this awakening by those people, who sincerely wanted to know God and how they opened their hearts to the guidance of the Spirit, but they didn’t really know characteristics of God’s guidance. They didn’t know, in what way God wants to lead and how people may be driven into subordination of the wrong guidance. We will go therefore on the next lines especially into this matter, so that we would distinguish the wrong guidance from the right guidance.

http://koti.phnet.fi/elohim/matter_from_guidance

may GBU

Posts: 162 | From: Finland | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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