Christian Chat Network

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
| | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Who was Melchizedek (Page 1)

 
This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Author Topic: Who was Melchizedek
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
BORN AGAIN,

There is some Jewish folklore that claims Shem as Melchizedek.

I was only pointing out that the possibility of there being many believers at the time in question as more than likely. And that these believers would have been in need of a priest. There have been many true priests of the Lord, with Melchizedek being unique in that Abraham, (another priest of the Lord) did show himself inferior, which is what the writer of Hebrews is showing us. Israel’s priest system was inferior from the beginning to the priesthood Melchizedek represents.

Much is made of the “non-existent” linage of Melchizedek. But the Bible repeats that Christ and Melchizedek are comparable, never equivalent.

A big concern is “literalism” that continues to creep its way into everything Christian. Taken to the extreme the Bible becomes pure nonsense, (one does not have to look very far as this website is replete with examples).

As far as Melchizedek’s priesthood continuing-

God’s plan of salvation transcends Israel.

(We also do not want to lose sight of the fact that acceptance of Genesis 11 is acceptance of a miracle. Miracles are also under attack.)

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BORN AGAIN
unregistered


Icon 16 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMH writes
quote:
Here is a chance for those who prefer to defer to the “Original” to shine-

The language of Genesis 11 is very clear that Shem was a contemporary of Melchizedek. Doubt is cast on this record by the use of Luke 3.

So it is up to the “Originals” to decide the matter.

What is it going to be Originals? Do we accept Genesis 11 or Luke 3?

Shem? I hadn't thought about Shem. I know for sure that Shem was a contemporary of Melchizedek. See my Topic Old Testament Age and Year Chart at http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003619#000000.

From the chart:

50. Genesis 11:10ff Shem+602 + + Eber 435 + + + + Ishmael 124 Isaac 110 Jacob 50
[Shem, the son of Noah, dies at 602; he has outlived Abraham by 35 years.]

Shem outlived Abraham by 35 years, and Shem was thus alive when Abram pursued the 4 eastern kings to Dan, and when Abram came back with the spoil and the people, Abram met Melchizedek by Salem.

AMH, since Abram did not worship Melchizedek, are you proposing that Shem had migrated to the land of Canaan at some point after the dispersion? But how did Shem get to be “a priest of the most High God”?

Genesis 14:18
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

And certainly the things Hebrews says of Melchizedek cannot not be said to be attributes of Shem?

Hebrews 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like the Son of God; and abides a priest continually.

Certainly there cannot be “two” priests of the most high God, if each “abides continually”, and Yahshua-Jesus was made after the order or Melchizedek?

Psalm 110:4
The LORD has sworn, and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here is a chance for those who prefer to defer to the “Original” to shine-

The language of Genesis 11 is very clear that Shem was a contemporary of Melchizedek. Doubt is cast on this record by the use of Luke 3.

So it is up to the “Originals” to decide the matter.

What is it going to be Originals?

Do we accept Genesis 11 or Luke 3?

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Dear Mr. Computer,

Do not be so alarmed. Although we do not know thunderz7, (now stop that shaking) very well he is probably a very nice guy. He just likes props, you know-

Names that remind us of Thor’s hammer
Swinging swords
Original languages

None of these are actually real. There, now isn’t that better.

(thunderz7, thunderz7, thunderz7) very good, no shaking.

It is not that “Original” things do not have their place Mr. Computer. It is just that we are not dependent on them. What we are dependent on is the Lord. Our friend likes lists so here is another-

Original things that we no longer have-

Moses' staff
The Ark of the Covenant
The Ten Commandments
Original Languages
Original Manuscripts

Mr. Computer do you know why we no longer have these?

Because some of us would worship them. They would become idols to us.

God will not allow this to happen. Besides we do not need them.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who were Melchizedek’s contemporaries?

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BORN AGAIN
unregistered


Icon 16 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Who was Melchizedek? [Big Grin]
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I made a startling discovery last night.

Every time that I typed the letters t-h-u-n-d-e-r-z-7 my computer would start shaking.

Then I went into a hypnotic trance as I gazed at the spinning sword.

My hands uncontrollably began typing. I could not stop as I went into sensory overload.

And this was the result-

In my pea brain I was taken back to my childhood days. To the time when I too liked playing games. All my old friends were there. And we were playing this game called pin the tail on the donkey. And we were using, (here my computer starts shaking again) thunderz7’s sword.

And the teacher told us-“Every time the donkey answers a question he gets a piece of candy.” And we all just cheered and cheered.

So tell us little burro-

What was the original language that Abraham used to communicate to Melchizedek?

And what was the original language that Mary and Jesus and the Disciples used to speak to one another?

And finally-

Why does the Lord hate the Nicolaitans so much?

(If I sign off by saying “God bless” will that make everything all right?)
AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AHM,
I like some of the thoughts on the clergy trying to control and manipulate power and truth.

Do you think it would make a good thread topic?

By the way,
I do read English,
though I speak Southern,
and don't spell or type English well.

have a great day
T7

Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Whether we like it or not, whether we realize it or not we all have a philosophy.

(That someone, as appears in this thread, would actually think that God is a bush or a rock or any other thing is not such a threat today because hedonism was thoroughly defeated.)

What is a very real threat though is ignorance.

As oddly as it may sound to some there is class warfare being fought in Christian circles. Even right here at this website, even in this very thread, right under our noses.

It centers on who is to be in control.

In order for the ruling class (bourgeois) to remain in power they must act in such a way that the power of the working class (proletarians) is neutralized. (Before you call me a communist let me give an example.)

In the early days of the Roman Catholic Church the clergy was able to control their subjects through ignorance. The masses could not read therefore they were totally dependent on the local priests and monks for Bible knowledge. The RCC coveted this power so much that it was death to anyone who would dare publish Bibles in the common language.

Clergy today still covet power.

They would have us believe that God cannot communicate with us in our own common language. This is a method they use to enslave us.

Their proverb sounds something like this-

Going back to the “original manuscript…”

Or

Reading from the “original language…”

By saying this they not only commit the masses to ignorance but they claim that God is somehow illiterate. That God cannot make Himself known to modern man.

But the Lord says that He has made us both kings and priests. We are to rule our own lives through His grace. We do not need these interlopers (clergy).

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
I am willing to cast a hungry dog a bone though-

Thunderz7 draws his sword but he does seem a little rusty now. Add another name to his list for his lord-

Illiterate

AMH

A dog, rusty, illiterate? [Embarrassed]

OH, OH, I get it, an Irish Setter who can't read his name on the food bowl. [Wink]

Guess I'll get on all four, wag my tail,
go outside and howl at the moon. [thumbsup2]

be blessed in Jesus
T7

Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

You had your chance, (or does your memory also lack). The invitation was given but the altar is now closed. Too late.

I am willing to cast a hungry dog a bone though-

Thunderz7 draws his sword but he does seem a little rusty now. Add another name to his list for his lord-

Illiterate

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aaron
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:
Aaron, my point certainly is not that there is no power in the name of Jesus,
my point is GOD has been called by many names.

I believe when YHWH confused the tongues of men at Babel, HE already knew all the names, in all the languages, that HE would be called.
I believe HE honors the utterance of those names when they come from a born again beleiver.

Ah. Thank you for clarifying that. [Smile]

Aaron

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

Kinda funny how you want to keep the discussion going when you have never answered to any of my questions.

But Oh well I will get over it. Last night I was looking over our posts to each other and I found something that was interesting. You asked If Christ was Melchizedek we should all worship him. And I continually asked you about the Burning bush, something we know without a doubt that God was. He was also a cloud. and a flame the led the Hebrews around the desert.

So in continuing in my childish games, how long have you worshipped the Bush, cloud and the flame. Or are you a secret worshipper?

My point is which I know you think is childish, you said that if Christ is Melchizedek then we need to worship him. Why do we worship Christ. Is it because he was God. If that is the case by using your logic we need to worship everything that God has been. Including the bush, flame, and the cloud.

Now I know that you will find this train of thought silly and well childish. As my screen name implies I am still only a babe in Christ so I guess I can be a little bit childish.

Now I know you don't worship the bush, cloud or even the flame. And why is that is it because you know that God did something even greater than appear as any of those things. It is the same with those of us that believe Melchizedek was Jesus. We don't worship one because we know that there was even a greater one.

Thunder actually said it very well. God has many names. Infact I have a poster at home that lists a bunch of them do we worship the name or do we worship what is behind the names.

Now I know that your response will probably be something well most likely not Christian like. Itis ok I will forgive you now ahead of time. I also know that when a discussion isn't going your way this is when your attitude comes into play. Again I will forgive you ahead of time. In fact I am going to pray for you.

God bless
Greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Aaron, my point certainly is not that there is no power in the name of Jesus,
my point is GOD has been called by many names.

I believe when YHWH confused the tongues of men at Babel, HE already knew all the names, in all the languages, that HE would be called.
I believe HE honors the utterance of those names when they come from a born again beleiver.


quote:
Thunderz7,

Your logo is impressive. Is your post open for discussion?

AMH

These boards are for discussion, I don't know what else I might add;
got to get off to work now though.

be blessed in Jesus
T7

Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Aaron
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Thunderz7:

The Messiah never heard His mother call him Jesus!

Dear brother Thunderz7,

When I deal with demons "in Jesus name" they do not scoff at my "lack" of phonetic accuracy. I am quite sure they know Who I serve and Who has power over them.

Aaron

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Thunderz7,

Your logo is impressive. Is your post open for discussion?

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Yes, we have just been pecking at the surface since coming here. As bad as the “literalness” is, there is something way worse and much more persistent residing at this site. As a matter of fact the “literalness” is only a symptom. The residing persistence targets faith, politics and for sure education. It was destroyed only to rear its ugly head once again. Miraculous!

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BORN AGAIN
unregistered


Icon 16 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This was good, AMH
quote:
For all those who say “Melchizedek is none other than Christ incarnate”,

I have three plus witnesses whose actions say that he was not-

Abraham was in his presences but Abraham never falls down and worships Melchizedek. Abraham only gives Melchizedek money, (Christ needs money).

The Psalmist never worships Melchizedek; he only compares him to the Son.

The writer of Hebrews only compares Melchizedek to Christ; he never commands we worship him.

And finally-

I don’t see any of you worshipping Melchizedek. What is wrong?

Interesting.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Thunderz7
Advanced Member
Member # 31

Icon 6 posted      Profile for Thunderz7     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

One can go to the Hebrew and say that -
without father, without mother without descent,
means
not recorded in the genealogies.

From the Hebrew,
neither biginning of life nor end of days proves this point.
He is not on record in the genealogies because he was not born, did not die, and produced no human offspring.

The original language proves that.


Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;

Genesis 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Melchizedek is the King of peace;
the child (Is.9:6) is the Prince of Peace.


11 ¶ If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

If perfection comes by the order of Melchisedek;
who is the prefect high priest?

14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.


Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Do we worship Emmanuel?


Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the Son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.
Matthew 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the Son of David; they were sore displeased,
Mark 11:9 And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord:
Mark 11:10 Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
John 12:13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.


Do we worship Hosanna?

Hebrew would spell the NAME above all names
Yeshua - Yashua - Y'shua - Yehoshua
The Messiah never heard His mother call him Jesus!

Who do we worship?

Do I have to list all the Old Testament Names of GOD (who is actually YHWH)?
Who do we worship?
Is Melchizedek not among them?

T7

Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh
And On that note I take it that this thread is over and done with. To bad I was actually enjoying our conversation.

You know I always enjoy your posts even if you hardly ever use scripture. But maybe its just better if this thread dies out now.

God bless you Andy
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

I can see clearly that you are confused. Maybe you should choose your friends a little more carefully.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

Now I am the one who is confused yet again what are my tactics or (motive). You asked me a simple question I answered it I think about four times. I have asked you a few, And some you have answered.

We both no that we wont agree on this topic. so we can leave it be or we can keep going.

That I leave up to you.

God bless you
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

I think very little of your tactics, (motive). With them you stand to lose much more than you gain.

Games are for children.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

You are right. that last question was quite foolish. For that I am sorry I really am. But it was for a reason. You see you feel it would be foolish to worship the Burning bush as do I. I also think that your question on whether I would worship Melchizedek is foolish.

No I would not worship Melchizedek. I will not stand before Jesus and Say I worship you Melchizedek.

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

You know, so far I feel that I have been patient with you. But there is a limit.

I am not in the habit of addressing or answering in any way fool questions.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh,

Fair enough.

But will you worship the bush.


GOd bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

So that you do not think that I am only a sham-

I will never worship Melchizedek as God. Melchizedek is not my king.

Jesus Christ is my Lord, my Savior, the only King that I will ever serve. Very man of very man and very God of very God.

To Him be praise and glory for ever and ever

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

Basically I look at your question as a trick question. If I say I think he ws Christ and I say no then I am saying I wont worship God.

But if I say yes and he wasn't Christ then I am saying I would worship a false God.

But if like I said you worship God because he is God and for everything that he is, was and will be then you are worshipping God.

You can answer your own question by answering this one. We know that GOd was a burning bush there fore will you worship the burning bush?

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

I do not understand your last post.

Are you answering “Yes” or “No” to my last question?

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

Once we are in Heaven and we are worshipping God we will be worshipping him. WE will worship God for everything that he has done. If he was Melchizedek It won't be Melchizedek that is being worshipped but God. Just like it won't be the bush that we worship but God. We will worship the one that died for us.

Now one thing I am pretty sure of if Christ wasn't Mechizedek then he will be standing right there worshipping with us.

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 


--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

I promise to answer every point that you brought up in your last post if you will but answer one small question of mine-

Will you worship Melchizedek as God, yes or no?

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

Something tells me that no matter what I say and what I believe the scripture is saying that you won't believe it anyway. It seems to me that you are looking for me to come right out with a scripture and say "This is the verse that proves it."

WE both know that this isn't going to happen.

Yes you are correct Linda and I both did go out on a limb. So while we are out on the limb and you are cutting every branch around us Iwill try to give you my proofs. Now like I said I am able to change my opinion if and only if someone shows me my error. So far you haven't done this.

Ok the first thing Iwill throw out on the table for you to slap back at me is this verse from Hebrews.

Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made a high priest for ever after the order of Melchizedec.

My question is simple and let me use some of your words for a second on this one. If the King of the Universe was going to have a Priesthood. Why would it be based after the Priest hood of a mere man if Melchizedek was just a man. Wouldn't the King of the Universe have a priesthood better than that of any man?

My next bit of proof can be found in John 8:56
and these are Chrisrs own words.

John8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

You notice the word saw that means Abraham saw Christs day. Now what was Christs day I believe that Abraham saw the Messiah. But how could this be? When he saw Melchizedek, he saw Christ thus he saw the Messiah. But again I am sure that this will be smacked right back to me from you. In fact I can see Your response right now " greg I'm sorry he didn't see Christ he saw an example of Christ or something like that.

In one of your posts you mentioned Melchizedeks geneology. What I think you were going for was the fact that he isn't mentioned in Christs blood line. If I am wrong by this I am sorry. In response to that statement though I have to say why would he be mentioned in his blood line?

Now lets discuss the verses in Hebrews that mentions his parents.

Heb7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Now we both believe that the Bible is the word f God correct? If our answer is yes then we need to ask ourselves why God would have this verse put in there. From what I can tell there really isn't any need accept to point us down the path that both Linda and I have taken. If I am missing something please correct me.

I just don't think that it is necessary to have this there if he did after all have parents. Plus by saying that he didn't have parents when he actually did well doesn't that make God a liar?

Maybe you see the dilema maybe you don't. We can say well the writter of Hebrews made a mistake. but we start walking on dangerous ground. If we have a mistake there then what else can be written off as a mistake.

This brings me to his title Heb7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace

Would not Christ be the King of Peace, or is he only the Prince of Peace. So his title is either equal to that of Melchizedek or his title is beneath Melchizedek. How can this be Christ if he the King of the Universe.

So now we have Or lord an savior by title equal to or beneath that of a man. Hmm this can't possibly be correct. What am I missing.

Now I am sure your response will be something like this. Greg its only a name and a title. But I think we can both maybe agree that in the Bible the names are very important.

Lets take Emmanuel. Doesn't that mean God with us. Butr if a name is only a name then when the baby was born and named Emmanuel was God really with us? Or how about Jesus doesn't it mean Yahweh saves. If a name is only a name maybe Yahwah doesn't really save. Heaven forbid that this is the case where would thet leave us poor creatures of sin.

For now this is all I have I look forward to your reply. By the way In doing my study on this the last few days I can see where you can get that he wasn't. This very well could be one of those mysterys that aren't answered till we are with the Lord.

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

(I am not so sure. But we will leave it at that.)

Why do you say that we need to figure out who Melchizedek was? If God intended for us to know something about Melchizedek He would have told us through His word and not some interloper because Melchizedek is that important.

In the final analysis I can not prove anything about Melchizedek. The only thing that I know about him is what I read.

I do know that the worship of Christ is paramount. Can this be said about Melchizedek?

Melchizedek was a king that lived during the time of Abraham.
Melchizedek was a priest that lived during the time of Abraham.
We do not know where he came from or where he went. The same can be said about the wind. Is the wind Christ?

But really I am not the one required to prove anything. You couch the argument as though the Bible says that Melchizedek was Christ. Then you want me to prove the Bible wrong. But you and helpforsomeschoolers went out on the limb. The Bible does not say anywhere that Melchizedek was Christ. So prove that he was.

(In the meanwhile I am going to watch for all of your proofs.)

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMH

First off if saying that you make me laugh was offending to you it wasn't ment to be. I was laughing at the post of yours that mentioned worship of melchizedek. you see the way you worded it made me laugh.

You are correct I didn't know what transolition or what ever it was you said ment. But at the same time when you posted that I believe that I said I believed Christ and Melchizedek were the same.

I am in no way trying to be smarter than you or show my intellegence. I am basically trying to have an open conversation with you. So if you think that I believe you to be less intellegent than me ,well for that I again say I am sorry.

I have been a Christian for a short time. Do I know everything that is to be known? Obviosly no I don't but at the same time the things I do know I haven't learned from a man. That is why I always say prove your point to me.

Now we can keep going and have a good honest conversation or we can say ok enough. to that I leave up to you. But we are now to the point where if he (Melchizedek) wasn't Christ then we need to figure out together who he was. But this I will leave up to you.

Again let me say I am very sorry if I offended you in any way. That has not been my intention . My intention through this whole thread was to learn something maybe look at something in a different way.

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

Two days ago you never even heard of transubstantiation, now you would crown Melchizedek King of the Universe. You have come a long way baby.

Your laugh is very familiar.

I bow down in worship to superior intellect.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh
You make me laugh. you really do.

Answer me this who was he. Our choices are limited.

Adam oh wait he died.

an angel there is no evidence that an angel was ever given such authority.

another man that God created and just planted on the earth.

Or the Word in the flesh before the Word was born into flesh.

Not sure where you are pulling the worship thing from, but anyway if that what it seems to you then so be it. GOd knows who I worship.

How about my loophole question you have a answer?

Sorry if this is offensive in anyway but the worship thing had me laughing pretty hard.

God bless you

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

OK then.

At the BBS there is Melchizedek worship.

Very well.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMH

Wow, first off I thought we were having an honest discussion. First off as far as worshiping Melchizdek If he was Christ and Christ is God. Then everytime we worship we are worshipping him. If he wasn't as you say and he was a man with no parents, who just popped onto the scene. Then when we worship we aren't worshipping him.

AS Linda mention God was a bush to Moses. Do we worship the bush. God forbid, but when we worship we worshipo God for the what he is, what he does, what he will do, what he has done and what he is doing.

In my Torah that I have it says the old Rabbis taught that Melchizedek was Shem. What do we know about that that can't be true? We know what the book of Hebrews says about him. If not Christ then who.

I believe from reading The scripture that he quite possibly (no I don't think I will waver on this) he was Christ. He was Christ before Christ did the one thing that eliminates the loophole. BE born and live a life as a man.

YEs I said loop hole every religion has one except Christianity. Do you know it.


God bless

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Greg,

Can we have an honest discussion?

We worship God the Creator. We worship Christ the Savior. If someone says that this is God or Christ then we should worship.

If someone says that Melchizedek is Christ then we should worship.

When you say that Melchizedek is Christ then you are implying all that goes with it. Even worship.

I see that you are not prepared to worship Melchizedek just as helpforhomeshcoolers is not prepared to worship Melchizedek.

So you really do not believe that Melchizedek was Christ.

Or are you a secret worshipper?

At least the RCC is honest enough to admit this about the bread and the wine blessed by the priest. They do worship it.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amh

I'm almost lost again when did I say that I worshipped Melchizedek. If this is not what you are implying then again let me say I am truely sorry.


God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMH

I'm sorry But I have to disagree with you concerning your last post.

It seems to me that you are doing two things.
1. You are putting limitations on what God can do.
2. It seems that you are saying that anything that Christ has been called IE the bread then we are worshipping it. If this last thing is not what you are sayng then please forgive me.

By the way please call me Greg I don't particularly like this screen name.

God bless
greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oneyearandcounting,

The Scripture is God’s truth revealed. The Lord uses words to communicate with us. He takes things that we understand and says-

I am like this.

Or,

You are like that.

There is a Godly line given in the Old Testament that follows right through to the birth of Christ.

Melchizedek is not included in the Godly line given to us. This makes him a “type” in that his linage was not included. He came from “no where” so to speak and then returned to “no where” so to speak. As did Christ. But Melchizedek was only a man. And we must not worship him. And helpforhomeschooler will tell you not to worship Melchizedek if you were to ask helpforhmeschooler.

But we do worship Christ. Always and in everything. From the beginning to the end. Before and after A.D. 0.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I have no problem with my doctrine. I trust that if it needs correcting God will accomplish that. I have no problem with you holding the beliefs that you have in this regard (Melchizedek) I trust that if it needs correcting God will accomplish that. I was trying to express this.

I believe that we have now crossed the point of open discussion and have begun to be rude and so again, you may have the last word, I have nothing more to contribute.....

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
helpforhomeschooler,

You are the one with the doctrine problem as usual.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Please! God appeared to Moses as a burning bush... so does that make you to think God is a tree?

Repectfully, Andy, If thinking that Mechizedek was the Word of God manifest to Abram as Melchidek leads you to make God to be gold and silver then reject it.

The Bible tells me that Mechizedek was without beginning of Days or end of Life and that speaks to me of ONE, and I seeing that does not cause me to make God to be gold or silver or granite.

And if we worship Christ we worship because He is God. We worship God Almighty and no other.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oneyearandcounting,

As I wrote to you before about the wine and the bread-

How far are you willing to go?

Is the bread and wine Christ?

Is the granite Christ?

Is Melchizedek Christ?

If you answer yes then worship of these is in order.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
oneyearandcounting
Advanced Member
Member # 4449

Icon 1 posted      Profile for oneyearandcounting     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMH

I see what you are saying.

SO do you believe that Melchizedek was just a regular person who achieved some kind of rightousness. Much like what we as Christians strive to achieve.

God bless

greg

--------------------
Acts9:18 And straightway there fell from his eyes as it were scales, and he received his sight; and he arose and was baptized.

Posts: 183 | From: winder Ga | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
AMH
Advanced Member
Member # 4895

Icon 1 posted      Profile for AMH     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
oneyearandcounting,

You see how it works?

Christ is now a piece of granite. Or God could be anything, gold, silver, wood. What ever is available.

AMH

Posts: 350 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
No one worshiped the rock either, but still the rock was Christ........

1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



This topic comprises 3 pages: 1  2  3 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Message Board | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

Christian Chat Network

New Message Boards - Click Here