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Author Topic: The Bible, Discernment and Exposing Error
SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Neither have God's ways changed, and that I fear should concern us more.

AMEN to this as well!!! HE is Still Holy and Righteous and HE expects us to Do as HE says! And one of those things is in Not adding to or taking away from HIS Written Word! (that topic could be a study all in it's self!)

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I agree that heaven and hell must be taught Jesus taught it; But I see heaven or hell as the consequence. I see the real choice is God's way or Man's. It is a matter of when do we see HIM as HE is and ourselves as we are without HIM.
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WildB
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Neither have God's ways changed, and that I fear should concern us more.

A teaching on heaven and hell must be taught.

Heb.9

1. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

The Bema Seat or The Great White Throne.

Heven or Hell , that is the real Choice.

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That is all.....

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Neither have God's ways changed, and that I fear should concern us more.
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SoftTouch
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That was an Excellent Post Sis! I knew you’d be able to really open this subject up to more of the potential it contained!

quote:
Helpforhomeschoolers wrote: I also think it is interesting that dicerning good and evil is done with the senses;and you have to excercise your senses to be able to discern these things.
I’m not really clear on what this means by ‘senses’? I would like to understand this more fully.

I know that we can ‘understand’ the times we live in because we can “see” the events taking place and how they line up with Scripture. Wars, Famine, Pestilence, Earthquakes, etc… We can “Hear” how prophecy is being fulfilled regarding the falling away from all the false preaching that’s going on. We can “Feel” the effects of men’s hearts growing colder and colder. But there’s something else too… There are times when the Spirit within me is unsettled when I hear or see something that just doesn’t seem right. I don’t like calling it a “Feeling” because that’s not quite accurate. I’m certain this is part of discernment because when I get this “sense that something isn’t right” it causes me to search out the truth.

quote:
Helpforhomeschoolers wrote: You know that Jesus was hungry when the devil tempted him to turn the stones into bread. Surely this would have been nothing for Jesus to do. But he had to discern what would be the consequinces of doing such a thing? He had to discern that God knew HIS need for nourishment and that God would provide; He had to dicern that this was not a thought in his own head but the enemy trying to get him to misuse the power of his topngue; he had to discern which scriptures to apply to the situation... not just the one to use to give answer to and resist the devil, but also the one to bring his own flesh into subjection... like maybe the one that says take no thought of what you shall eat, your heavenly father knows youe needs and will provide? We dont know, all the things that went into his discernment of the situation, but we can see that it was a matter of life or death to discern between what was right to do and what was not right to do.

What about this one?

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

This is so common to us today. The devil spoke to him the word. This is the truth spoken from the mouth of Satan. But Jesus had to discern that it was not the whole truth and he did........

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Today, we seem to think that the devil cant speak the truth! He can, but he is still the devil when he does. Think about that one a bit. The devil is able to speak the truth as it is written right from the scriptures.


Here is it is from the 91st Psalm:

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Compare:

Matthew 4:6.......He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Life and death for all mankind was in the hands of Jesus' ability to discern in that moment.

Praise God for the SON!

Jesus answered every time with It is written. Should we not seek to be like Jesus? Should we not with all our being hope and pray to be able to discern and give answer: It is written! We are HIS body; we are ONE in HIM and HIM in Us; how could we think that there should be any other answer?

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! This is an excellent example and should teach us So Much! Satan’s ways have not changed, he’s always been about half-truths (which are lies). He started out that way in the Garden and his M.O. hasn’t changed a bit! He is a perverter and twister of Scripture and that’s exactly what we see happening in the Apostate Church.

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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There is a lot room for Bible Study here Deb; the word discernment is become a dirty word in a great deal of the professing Christian world, sadly I think because of those who have misused it claiming themselves to hold ministries of discernment and then showing that they have little discernment themselves.

You can bet that if God wants us to have it, the devil is going to pervert it and the concept of Biblical Discernment is no exception.

Your topic is a good one and a true one, but as I read the title I tell you I thought to myself... is that all discernment is? Exposing error? Is discernment not also understanding truth?

I thought of Solomon. He asked for DISCERNMENT and it pleased God!

1 Kings 3:11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

The word judgement here is a legal word; to discern justice; its root is to judge,vindicate, govern, punish... it involves determining what is right and what is wrong and being able to discern between the two.

We are reminded of the story of the woman who stole the baby. Solomon's wisdom allowed him to know that the mother would have concern for the welfare of the child above all things. So his discernment was one of discerning true love... the agape love of a parent.

In Ezekiel, we see that the priests are charged with teaching the people to discern:

Ezekiel 44:23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.

God wants HIS people to know the difference between that which is Holy and that which is profane... that which is clean and that which is unclean.

Surely we are not under law as these were, but I wonder if God is changed that He no longer desires this of HIS people? Yet we have a very difficult time discerning these things today. And not just that people cannot discern what is profane.... they can neither discern that which is Holy!!!!!!

I feel a bit like Andy Ronney, but I wonder about this: Do you think that the Northern Kingdom worshipped the calf because they could not discern that it was profane or was it because they could not discern that God was Holy?Maybe they just didnt care? I dont know. But clearly God wanted the people to be able to discern between the two.

Here in Malacai it seems as if the ability to discern is directly related to God's restoration of HIS people;

Malachi 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Jesus spoke much about the inability of the Pharisee to discern:

Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

The problem was that they could not discern the TRUTH when it stood before them. They did not know the nature of God though it was manifest in Christ...

Matthew 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.

Paul to the Hebrews says that it is a sign of maturity that we can discern good and evil:

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

I also think it is interesting that dicerning good and evil is done with the senses;and you have to excercise your senses to be able to discern these things.

I like this verse too from Ecclesiastes:

Ecclesiastes 8:5 Whoso keepeth the commandment shall feel no evil thing: and a wise man’s heart discerneth both time and judgment.


I was also thinking on this and another story that came to mind in addition to Solomon, was of Jesus and the temptations that he faced. In each of those temptations he was required to be discerning.


You know that Jesus was hungry when the devil tempted him to turn the stones into bread. Surely this would have been nothing for Jesus to do. But he had to discern what would be the consequinces of doing such a thing? He had to discern that God knew HIS need for nourishment and that God would provide; He had to dicern that this was not a thought in his own head but the enemy trying to get him to misuse the power of his topngue; he had to discern which scriptures to apply to the situation... not just the one to use to give answer to and resist the devil, but also the one to bring his own flesh into subjection... like maybe the one that says take no thought of what you shall eat, your heavenly father knows youe needs and will provide? We dont know, all the things that went into his discernment of the situation, but we can see that it was a matter of life or death to discern between what was right to do and what was not right to do.

What about this one?

Matthew 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

This is so common to us today. The devil spoke to him the word. This is the truth spoken from the mouth of Satan. But Jesus had to discern that it was not the whole truth and he did........

Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

Today, we seem to think that the devil cant speak the truth! He can, but he is still the devil when he does. Think about that one a bit. The devil is able to speak the truth as it is written right from the scriptures.


Here is it is from the 91st Psalm:

11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Compare:

Matthew 4:6.......He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Life and death for all mankind was in the hands of Jesus' ability to discern in that moment.

Praise God for the SON!

Jesus answered every time with It is written. Should we not seek to be like Jesus? Should we not with all our being hope and pray to be able to discern and give answer: It is written! We are HIS body; we are ONE in HIM and HIM in Us; how could we think that there should be any other answer?

IF I dont know the answer; if I cant discern anything at all, I should hope that I could open this book and pray and find where it is written by the leading of HIS spirit.


Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

We often here that God knows the heart of man; but how?

Colossians 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


BY HIS WORD!

By HIS word are the thoughts and intents of our heart discerned.

And by HIS word do we discern that which is Good and HOlY and that which is not.

We are each known to each other by HIS word.

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HisGrace
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Actually I prefer dolls. [Roll Eyes]
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TEXASGRANDMA
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hands HisGrace and anti-cranky pill and a stuff animal.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Caretaker
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Amen Sis!!!!!!!

I think that one should have such a working knowledge of God's Word so as to be able to ascertain truth from error.

There are basic tenents of the Christian faith which unite the Brethren.

If a teacher or teaching undermins, twists or perverts scripture so that a basic tenent of the faith is changed or undermined, then one should have discernment enough to realize this.

Just a for instance when the Watchtower denies the diety of Christ, in their translations, their study materials, their verbal witnessing, then a Believer should have enough Biblical discernment NOT to justify their heresy by referencing the JW as brethren.

2 Tim 3:
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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SoftTouch
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Is this 'not' a topic for Bible Study? Have I not included many scripture references? Have I "Exposed" any particular ministry or teacher in the above posts? There is nothing wrong with this thread being in the section it's in. It is indeed Bible Study material.

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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HisGrace
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You guys - do you not have enough excitement in the Exposing False Teaching Forum? You have to come over here and start pushing buttons. I am fed us with the same old, same old.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
One good example of this would be how many of today’s ‘popular preachers’ preach what they call “the Gospel message”. Their message will be comprised of: "Christ died for our sins..He was buried..and rose again." But they leave something out...
Jesus gave the message in Lk24:46-48. "Christ suffered..rose from the dead." That’s a good start, but what's next? "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name." Many of today’s ‘popular preachers’ do not do this! Without "repentance" there is no salvation. Paul summed it up "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts20:21)

Not the ones I listen to and I could give you quite a list???
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Discernment involves the ability to recognize the false when we see it, compared to Truth. And those falsehoods can be so very subtle!

We all think we have discernment and we all think we know the Truth. There is also conviction, which may be different for each person. Therefore, we can't judge each other.
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SoftTouch
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Should we be in “Unity” with all professing to be Christian? Not if they teach falsely! (I took this from the thread “True or False”)

My understanding from Scripture on the Need for Division among ‘professing’ Christians
quote:
John 17: 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed for our “Unity” but that Unity is to be Him in us. This Unity of Believers (which comes from HIS Holy Spirit) can only had when we Obey Him and continue in HIS teaching.
quote:
John 15: 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

He also said
quote:
John 14: 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Paul warns us to stick to what we have learned which speaks directly to abiding In HIM and HIS Words in us:
quote:
2 Timothy 3: 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The things that were learned were the clear teachings of Jesus, His Apostles and the Holy Scriptures (Old Testament). These were the Doctrine that they had given. Here is what Paul said about anyone who teaches Contrary to what Jesus and the Apostles taught:
quote:
Romans 16: 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Jude tells us:
quote:
Jude 1: 3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This speaks of those who are claiming to be Christian Teachers but are teaching contrary to the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles. The following scripture clarifies that these who cause division Contrary to THE Doctrine[b] are false apostles. [b]We are told to avoid them – Division
quote:
2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
continuing further down…
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

When we find (by searching The Scriptures and testing the Spirits by The Scriptures) that someone is teaching Contrary. to the Faith (Doctrine) given us by Jesus and His Apostles then we Must Separate from them – Division.

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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SoftTouch
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Discernment and Exposing Error

Paul writes, "…that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, the EYES OF YOUR UNDERSTANDING being enlightened; (Eph1:17-18)

As we grow in our "knowledge of Christ" (Phil3:10) we get to know Him, and we understand the "hope of his calling." (Tit2:13) As we know Him and His Holy Spirit, we are then able to discern spirits which are "false."(1Jn4:1) When we see the False, we must "expose" the evil by means of the Truth; "Holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict...for there are many...deceivers...whose mouths must be stopped." (Tit1:9-10)

Discernment involves the ability to recognize the false when we see it, compared to Truth. And those falsehoods can be so very subtle!

One good example of this would be how many of today’s ‘popular preachers’ preach what they call “the Gospel message”. Their message will be comprised of: "Christ died for our sins..He was buried..and rose again." But they leave something out...

Jesus gave the message in Lk24:46-48. "Christ suffered..rose from the dead." That’s a good start, but what's next? "And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name." Many of today’s ‘popular preachers’ do not do this! Without "repentance" there is no salvation. Paul summed it up "repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ." (Acts20:21)

So, by stopping where they do, they preach a false gospel. What is said is truth, but because they do not give the "whole message" that truth becomes a lie. Anyone listening and expecting to hear what was needed for eternal life, is left lacking. Still eternally lost. A clever deception! This is only one example of false teachings that are prevalent these days.

Paul wrote, "Those who are sinning rebuke in the presence of all, that the rest also may fear.” (1Tim 5:20) "rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in faith." (Tit1:13) "With all authority" (2:15) And when "exposing" the unfruitful works of darkness, we are to have "no fellowship" with them. (Eph5:11) John writes, "if anyone comes...and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds." (2Jn10-11)

Once error has been discerned, the Believer is to "hold fast the faithful word" (Tit1:9) ...being bold in "exposing the unfruitful works of darkness" (Eph5:11) and do not fellowship with those who teach contrary to the Doctrine of Christ.

quote:
2 John 1: 9Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

10If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

11For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.



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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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