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Author Topic: True or False
BORN AGAIN
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The Lord is following His flock. He be tellin' the other sheep 'bout ya.

BORN AGAIN

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Dont tell on me BA! [hug]
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
BORN AGAIN
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ahh...helpforhomsechoolers, in the end you were just like AMH, you had a secret agenda...it was neither about unity nor division, but about Christ.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Now we see the resident preacher and it is not I!

Bravo, Deb! The statement is false.


The Bible is not about unity and it is not about division either.

It is about Christ! and Christ has a Bride.

And to have unity in Christ; we must be divided from sin and united with each other IN HIM.


The mystery of the church is that... the union of us IN HIM and HIM IN US. For that to happen there has to be some division!

[clap2] [clap2] [clap2]

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SoftTouch
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I voted False. I agree that the Bible speaks of both Unity and Division, but here is an area were there seems to be much disagreement on this board:

My understanding from Scripture on the Need for Division among ‘professing’ Christians
quote:
John 17: 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Jesus prayed for our “Unity” but that Unity is to be Him in us. This Unity of Believers (which comes from HIS Holy Spirit) can only had when we Obey Him and continue in HIS teaching.
quote:
John 15: 6If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

He also said
quote:
John 14: 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Paul warns us to stick to what we have learned which speaks directly to abiding In HIM and HIS Words in us:
quote:
2 Timothy 3: 13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

The things that were learned were the clear teachings of Jesus, His Apostles and the Holy Scriptures (Old Testament). These were the Doctrine that they had given. Here is what Paul said about anyone who teaches Contrary to what Jesus and the Apostles taught:
quote:
Romans 16: 17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Jude tells us:
quote:
Jude 1: 3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

This speaks of those who are claiming to be Christian Teachers but are teaching contrary to the teachings of Jesus and His Apostles. The following scripture clarifies that these who cause division Contrary to THE Doctrine[b] are false apostles. [b]We are told to avoid them – Division
quote:
2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
continuing further down…
13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

When we find (by searching The Scriptures and testing the Spirits by The Scriptures) that someone is teaching Contrary. to the Faith (Doctrine) given us by Jesus and His Apostles then we Must Separate from them – Division.

O.K. That's my .o2 [Wink]

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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BORN AGAIN
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Caretaker said to BORN AGAIN
quote:
I believe you to be in error BA.

A sling-shot is a weapon and would break bones on the sheep, just as it slew Goliath. A shepherd would Not use a weapon on the sheep. Why would one knowingly do physical harm to their livelyhood?

I did not say that the shepherd used his slingshot to shoot a large riverworn smooth stone at a sheep.

These shepherds have become very accurate with the slingshots over the years, and either hit the sheep with a small stone on the **** or more probably caused a small stone to hit the ground near the sheep to skit the sheep back into the right direction.

But, in truth I'm not sure what they did, so if someone knows I'd like to hear about it? When I was in Afghanistan, I climbed a high central mountain in Kabul and woke up in the morning to see a shepherd FOLLOW his flock just below the ancient fortress where I had spent the night.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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Caretaker
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Born Again writes:
I was surprised to read the other day in the Bible that the shepherd did not lead the flock, as I had always "imagined", but instead the shepherd "follows" the flock, so that He can see it and throw stones at it with his slingshot:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I believe you to be in error BA.

A sling-shot is a weapon and would break bones on the sheep, just as it slew Goliath. A shepherd would Not use a weapon on the sheep. Why would one knowingly do physical harm to their livelyhood?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Traditional Palestine shepherds lead their sheep daily to rest at noon in a quiet pasture and to a safe drinking place in the evening. The sheep know their shepherd´s voice. An early photograph.


Shepherds Lead Sheep

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A Palestinian Slingshot

 -

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Psalm 23:
1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.


Let me just add that the time that the Shepherd "follows" the Sheep is when they are grazing and resting in the green pastures. Then He stays close and follows them as they move while grazing, and carefully watches-over His flock.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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BORN AGAIN
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Dear sister helpforhomeschoolers, you write
quote:
Well we are supposed to lead by serving, so I will serve you up some more
I was surprised to read the other day in the Bible that the shepherd did not lead the flock, as I had always "imagined", but instead the shepherd "follows" the flock, so that He can see it and throw stones at it with his slingshot:

Psalm 80:1
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, You who lead Joseph like a flock; You who dwells between the cherubims, shine forth.

Isaiah 40:11
He shall feed His flock like a shepherd: He shall gather the lambs with His arm, and carry them in His bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.

But how He led was apparently by following the flock:

Amos 7:15
And the LORD took me as I followed the flock, and the LORD said unto me, Go, prophesy unto my people Israel.

And they "searched for the flock":

Ezekiel 34:8
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because My flock became a prey, and My flock became meat to every animal of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and did not feed My flock;

Anyway, all that to say that the Shepherd Yahshua-Jesus is apparently "following us" instead of "preceding us", and by "following us", He can see what we are all "up to" and then He slings stones our way to bring us back within the flock.

Some sheep that "consistently" insisted on going far out of the way could be killed, lest that sheep teach her bad lessons to other sheep, according to the author of "A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23".

God bless, lead by following?

BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Well we are supposed to lead by serving, so I will serve you up some more:

Numbers 16:21 Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment.

Deuteronomy 29:21 And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

1 Kings 8:53 For thou didst separate them from among all the people of the earth, to be thine inheritance, as thou spakest by the hand of Moses thy servant, when thou broughtest our fathers out of Egypt, O Lord GOD.

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HisGrace
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There are all kinds of scriptures about 'coming together' which denotes unity -

Jeremiah 3:18
In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

Jeremiah 49:14
I have heard a rumour from the LORD, and an ambassador is sent unto the heathen, saying, Gather ye together, and come against her, and rise up to the battle.

Joel 3:11
Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.

Luke 15:6
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.

Acts 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Acts 10:27
And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together.

NOW - I'll let someone else take a turn with their views (with mandatory scripture, as requested by our resident 'preacher.') [Smile]

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BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers wrote, like one of those TV preachers predicted who "the LORD told me a new wave of the Spirit was coming, was coming"
quote:
I really think there is something cool to see here...
Until it fizzled out without an explanation.

And you will say, "Be not faithless, but believing".

God bless us all on this CBBS, BORN AGAIN [Cross]

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Bravo! Keep um coming you guys. I really think there is something cool to see here...
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HisGrace
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Here goes -

Genesis 11:6
"Look!" he said. "If they can accomplish this when they have just begun to take advantage of their common language and political unity, just think of what they will do later. Nothing will be impossible for them!

Ephesians 4:13
until we come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature and full grown in the Lord, measuring up to the full stature of Christ.

Philippians 2:1
Is there any encouragement from belonging to Christ? Any comfort from his love? Any fellowship together in the Spirit? Are your hearts tender and sympathetic.

Psalm 133:1
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!

Ephesians 4:3
Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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No fair! I see a whole lot of opinons and no scripture. You are not playing fair! [Big Grin]

Better watch out HisGrace, I could make apoll outta that statement and we could test it, if tht is you guys would play fair and post scripture! [pound]

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HisGrace
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The Bible is about both - Unity and Division.
However, I believe God's ultimate goal is for unity.

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BORN AGAIN
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At the same time, the Bible is also about unity, but among the brethren only, and then not necessarily in this life when we only have the pledge or downpayment of the Holy Spirit, until our bodies are glorified will their not be unity even among the brethren; some unity, yes, some love, yes, some mercy, yes, we can do that and do it, thanks be to the LORD God of Israel and His Holy Spirit.

Discord between brethren and unsaved kin, and discord between unsaved kin, and partial unity for the brethren while yet in the flesh.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN

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BORN AGAIN
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Matthew 10 (KJV)
33But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father who is in heaven.

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

My salvation ruined my friendly relationship with my housemate; he is a Darwinist. We do not have much to say to each other anymore, especially since he will resort to ridicule and mocking. So thanks to me getting saved (thank God), we are no longer the friends we once were.

God bless, [Cross] BORN AGAIN
"God is still doing some great things"

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Carmela
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I didn't vote for the same reasons. We are suppose to divide ourselves, so to speak, from people that bring us down. However, the bible strongly stresses unity. There isn't really a true/false answer because it depends on the context it's used.

If it's between Christians, I would say true. If it's about good/evil type things...false.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I voted that the statement is false. Here I see the Bible is about division:

Division of light and darkness

Genesis 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Division of nations

Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.

Division of languages

Genesis 11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Sometimes the gretest topics come up in a thread and you dont want to take the thread in a differnt direction sho you just have to start one. Today I saw two things like this... maybe three. Here is the first.

I will not say who said this cause it is immaterial to the thread here; if she sees this and wants to claim it fine. But I thought it a great thing to look at.

I thought I would do this as a poll and then we can in the thread give scriptural support for our differing views. If we can follow this out with out debate, but just offering posts to its truth or false answer. I think that there is something interesting to see.

" The bible is about unity, not division."

True or False

Poll Information
This poll contains 1 question(s). 10 user(s) have voted.
You may not view the results of this poll without voting.

Vote Now     View Poll Results

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator


 
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