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Author
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Topic: what do you think "the day of the LORD" is?
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
This is just in response to the "Say What? " above:
IOn Daniel these things are to be accomplished in Daniel's people and in the Holy City:
- to finish the transgression
- not done
- Done only in the church/Bride now
- to make reconciliation for iniquity
- Accomplished on in the Chruch/Bride now
- to bring in everlasting righteousness
- Accomplished only in the Bride/Church
- now to seal up the vision and prophecy
- What vision and prophesy? Has it been sealed up? Sealing up implies that it is declaed and finalized authenticated with his seal. - I believe this is accomplished.
and to anoint the most holy. - Is the most Holy a place or a person? Is this the annointing of the one to sit on David's throne from all eternity?
Does he sit now on David's throne? When is the King annointed King over ALL Israel... Every think about David's reign? Did David reign over all Israel from the beginning? Wonder why these kind of details appear in scripture? Significant or Happenstance?
Not claiming answers just throwing out food for thought.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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quote:
quote by BORN AGAIN, reposted by HFHS:
So HFHS, are you saying that "the day of Christ" is for the church and Israel-Ephraim/Judah and "the day of the LORD" is for the heathen?
HFHS replied: quote:
I am saying I dont know, I have never looked at it, but I find the use of the terms differently to different groups is interesting and I find the response of different groups also interesting. I want to examine it more closely because I think that we ought pay attention to details when studying and not take things for granted and make conclusions that are not evidenced.
Okay, good thinking. quote:
HFHS continues:[quote]I will say that to whomever it was that said these things have been accomplished by Christ already, I would say that they surely have been accomplished already in the Church;
Say what? The "day of Christ" may have started at Pentecost around 30 A.D., but in my mind the other "day of Christ" is when the Prince enters through the Eastern Gate at Jerusalem and takes possession of the oblation of land by Jerusalem that is reserved for the Prince--for the "day of Christ".
I like what someone else said, maybe it was oneyearandcounting, that right now we were in the "day of Man" ("Son of man"), but when the Prince takes possession of the oblation of land by Jerusalem, then it will be the "day of Christ", of "Christ's actual physical rule over the heathen with a rod of iron".
That to me, more than anything else, will examplify the "day of Christ" nowadays.
HFHS further says: quote:
But if the church is not the branches that were cut off that will be grafted back in, then it has not been accomplished in ALL Israel.
That's an awkward way of saying that the church are the branches grafted in, and the house of Ephraim-Israel and the house of Judah will yet come up out of their graves, and they too shall be grafted into Israel.
Actually, it will be Greater Israel then, apparently including Assyria, Syria, Lebanon, Canaan/Israel, and Egypt, altogether will possibly Greater Israel then, to fit all the people of the house of Ephraim-Israel and of the house of Judah and the Gentile believers?
Frankly, where are we going to put them all? I think that they will be ambassadors of Christ in every city of the earth, "be you over ten cities" and "be you over five cities", as all the bornagain Christians spread out over the earth and come to Jerusalem and the land of Greater Israel also.
But in the midst of the camp will be Israel.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
"Jesus died on Calvary, so the whole wide world could see, it was a great thing, oh yes, it was a great thing, what a great thing, that He did for me, yeah" (Christian CD)
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
But why could these two "not occur together"? I see no "logical" reason why they could not occur together.
1.Because a Jewish wedding is week long event that takes place in the home of the grooms Father;
2.Because the bride is not presented to the towns people until the end of the wedding week.
3. Because the day of Atonement comes after the days of Awe.
4. Because the wholly righteous do not go through the days of awe awaiting the declaration of their righteousness on the day of atonement.
5. Because the High Priest prepares in the temple for 7 days before the day of Atonesment.
5. Because it was 7 days before the rains came and the righteous were in the ark with God during those 7 days.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
quote:
So HFHS, are you saying that "the day of Christ" is for the church and Israel-Ephraim/Judah and "the day of the LORD" is for the heathen?
I am saying I dont know, I have never looked at it, but I find the use of the terms differently to different groups is interesting and I find the response of different groups also interesting. I want to examine it more closely because I think that we ought pay attention to details when studying and not take things for granted and make conclusions that are not evidenced.
I will say that to whomever it was that said these things have been accomplished by Christ already, I would say that they surely have been accomplished already in the Church; but if the church is not the branches that were cut off that will be grafted back in, then it has not been accomplished in ALL Israel.
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reflectingtheson
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Hello BA and Bandit,
I too think there is no logical reason that the Day of the Lord and The Day of Our Redemption, also known as the rapture by the majority of christiandom, can and is the same event that will be at the end of the age as described in Matthew. I fear that when the antichrist shows up on the scene making himself out to be "god" that too many of todays christian will follow him cause they are looking for christ to come first before any other event. I pray for their eyes to be open to at least the possiblity of there being another idea to the endtime scene other than the most popular "left behind" option.
My fear for them is that should a major event like the Dec 26 earthquake only mag10+ takes place and the world governing body decrees a world numbering process to help feed everyone, most will line up cause the "rapture" hasn't happened yet. "It can't be the 'mark' cause I am still here so it must not be bad". So many are looking for a man to be the antichrist when I think that it more resembles a governing body since beast in bible prophecy is a nation or government.
Oh wait, they aren't looking for the anti cause they plan on being out of here. I forgot for a second. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Rick
Posts: 43 | From: Baton Rouge, LA | Registered: Sep 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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So HFHS, are you saying that "the day of Christ" is for the church and Israel-Ephraim/Judah and "the day of the LORD" is for the heathen?
But why could these two "not occur together"? I see no "logical" reason why they could not occur together.
The Lord Yashua descends (and perhaps the LORD YHWH descends), and the holy angels descend, and the dead in Christ ascend ("the day of Christ") and "we who are alive" on the earth at that time are "gathered unto Him at His coming "parousia" ("the day of Christ").
Once that has happened "in the twinkling of an eye", then the Lord Yahshua and the holy angels proceed to the land of Israel, He sets His feet on the mount of Olives on the east side of Jerusalem, the valley splits in two, He takes control of the heathen (all "the day of the LORD").
Why can this not all happen on the same day?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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helpforhomeschoolers
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ha ha BA! I totally missed this thread! I was looking at this on the Thessalonians thread.
I will have to look more deeply at the list that you posted, but I was thinking that we will see that the day of the Lord to world and the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ to the Bride are different things.
2 Thessalonians 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 1:10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ;
This is to me it seems the day of the Bride's redemption:
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
It does not seem to me to be the same day as this day:
1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
Which seems to be this day:
Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
1 John 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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Bandit wrote quote:
To answer question (1) one must show from scripture that Daniels’ 70th week is synonymous with something scripture elsewhere calls “the tribulation period”.
Regarding Daniel's 70 weeks, those 70 weeks were appointed upon Daniel's people and upon their holy city Jerusalem:
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Jesus already did all those things when He came the first time.
holy.- to finish the transgression
- to make reconciliation for iniquity
- to bring in everlasting righteousness
- to seal up the vision and prophecy
- and to anoint the most holy.
Jesus Christ already accomplished these things.
His earthly ministry was probably the first 3½ years of those "still missing" seven years appointed unto "your people", and the Jewish War and fall of Jerusalem was probably the second 3½ years of those "missing" seven years appointed onto "your holy city".
The seventy weeks of Daniel were already accomplished upon his people and upon the holy city Jerusalem in 30-33 A.D. and 67-70 A.D.
I do think the earth will become more tumultuous as we near the time of the coming of the Prince to tak possession of His oblation of land by Jerusalem, but I do not believe in the traditional "great tribulation period" at this time.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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Bandit
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quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
First, chapter 9 opens with Daniel realizing from Jeremiah’s writings that Israel’s captivity would last 70 years.
...
Watcher, I don't know if this post of yours was meant to address either of my two questions, but if it was, then it missed the point entirely. I repeat my post.
I would like to see the evidence supporting the following two claims which underlie this post.
1) Proof that the bible refers to the whole of Daniel's 70th week as the "tribulation period".
2) Proof that the millennial kingdom is contained within the "Day of the Lord."
To answer question (1) one must show from scripture that Daniels’ 70th week is synonymous with something scripture elsewhere calls “the tribulation period”.
Sincerely,
Bandit
PS If your post was not meant as a reply to mine, then forgive my misunderstanding.
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Bandit
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
watcher, I too am looking forward to the rapture. I have heard many Preachers in the last couple of months say that the next thing that will happen in prophecy is the rapture. Soon we will be standing around the throne singing "Worthy is the Lamb" to our Lord face to face. What a glorious day that will be!
betty
Betty (and all),
Jesus did say that He would return, but the timing of it may not be as many of you have been taught. The teaching you are talking about here is called the imminent (any moment) return of Christ. I, too, have heard this same teaching for most of my life, but I never could find any support for it in scripture. (Which is why I was always unconvinced.) It always seemed to me that this doctrine was being forced upon the scriptures rather than being drawn from the scriptures. As it turns out, if one lets the scriptures speak for themselves, I believe a different time-line of His return emerges.
Jesus’ disciples asked Him in Matthew 24:3 what would be the sign of His coming and the end of the age? (I believe the disciples already understood that His return would mark the end of the current age, so their question was really what indicators would there be which would immediately precede His return and the end of the current age.)
Not to get too deep, but if we read through Matthew 24 we don’t get to the “sign of the Son of Man” until verse 30. And in verse 31 we find something which reads very much how we would expect the rapture to be described. Now the real problem (for the pre-trib rapture position and its notion of imminent return) is that there are also other events which Christ described before verse 30 which He says will precede the occurrence of the events in verse 30! In particular, we have the unveiling of the AntiChrist in verse 15 and the unescapable conclusion that the “rapture”, as described in verse 31, occurs “after the tribulation of those days” (tribulation perpetrated by the AntiChrist)!
It appears to me then, that a straight-forward reading of Matthew 24 is totally inconsistent with the pre-trib rapture position and its notion of the imminent return of Christ. I believe the remainder of scripture is also at odds with the pre-trib rapture position. For instance, the discussions by Paul in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians can also be shown to fit quite nicely with the time-line I just pulled from Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 24. And the Revelation also supports the time-line described in Matthew 24. Look at the breaking of the seals: the 5th seal deals with the killing of the martyrs (those standing true to the faith); the 6th seal matches Matthew 24:29 and 30 to a T; and between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seal we have “a great multitude, which no one could count” suddenly appearing in heaven (fits right with Matthew 24:31).
The real problem here is that the Lord is saying one thing, while most who claim to be His spokesman are saying something else! This deception runs deep. Those who control most of protestant churches have banned persons like me from even speaking about this. (I know this because I have been actively censored, and know other who have as well.)
In a nutshell, the Lord has warned His followers about the persecution coming in the last days. But He did not leave us without warning. He told us to remain faithful, even in the face of certain death, and that because of our faithfulness in perseverance, He would give us the crown of life. (See Revelation 2:10 for instance.) What the modern church has done is to not only negate the warning of trials to come with its pre-trib rapture message, but with its “once saved always saved” doctrine it has told people that they could never be in any real danger of departing from true faith anyway.
Someone needs to wake up! “Those who lead you lead you astray” as the Lord said in Isaiah 3:12.
In His service,
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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Watcher
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First, chapter 9 opens with Daniel realizing from Jeremiah’s writings that Israel’s captivity would last 70 years.
These were literal years. Since the prophecy delivered by Gabriel to Daniel in 9:24-27 is related to the 70-year captivity, it follows that the 70 weeks of years are equally literal.
Second, since definite numbers are used in the prophecy (7, 62, and 1 weeks), it would be strange indeed for such odd numbers to not have literal meaning. Leon Wood asks, "Why should definite numbers be applied to periods of indefinite lengths?" Nothing in the context suggests a non-literal use of numbers in this prophecy.
We know from the beginning of chapter 9 (verse 2) that Daniel had read about "the number of years which was revealed as the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet for the completion of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years."
The two passages which Daniel surely studied were Jeremiah 25:11-12 and 29:10-14. Both texts clearly speak of Israel’s Babylonian captivity as limited to a 70-year period.
Both passages also blend into their texts, statements that look forward to a time of ultimate fulfillment and blessing for the nation of Israel. This is why Daniel appears to think that when the nation returns to their land, then ultimate blessing (the millennial kingdom) will coincide with their return. Daniel’s errant thinking about the timing of God’s plan for Israel occasioned the Lord’s sending of Gabriel "to give you insight with understanding" (Dan. 9:22).
God was not yet ready to bring history to its destined final climax. Thus, He told Daniel that He was going stretch out history by seventy times seven years (i.e., 490 years).
Dr. David Cooper wrote the following paraphrase that I think accurately captures the sense of the passage:
Daniel, you have been thinking that the final restoration will be accomplished and the full covenant blessings will be realized at the close of these seventy years of exile in Babylon. On this point you are mistaken. You are not now on the eve of the fulfillment of this wonderful prediction.
Instead of its being brought to pass at this time, I am sent to inform you that there is decreed upon your people and the Holy City a period of "seventy sevens" of years before they can be realized.
At the conclusion of this period of 490 years the nation of Israel will be reconciled and will be reinstated into the divine favor and will enter into the enjoyment of all the covenant blessings.
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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Bandit
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quote:
Originally posted by Watcher:
The Day of the LORD is a special term in the Bible used to refer to a period of time when God directly intervenes in human affairs---in judgment or in blessing. The Day of the Lord we are presently waiting for in our time frame will begin with the rapture of the church and will continue through the tribulation period (seven years), and on through the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth until the time of the "new heavens and new earth." (Rev. 21)
Hello all,
I would like to see the biblical evidence supporting the following two claims which underlie this post.
1) Proof that the bible refers to the whole of Daniel's 70th week as the "tribulation period".
2) Proof that the millennial kingdom is contained within the "Day of the Lord."
Bandit
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
watcher, I too am looking forward to the rapture. I have heard many Preachers in the last couple of months say that the next thing that will happen in prophecy is the rapture. Soon we will be standing around the throne singing "Worthy is the Lamb" to our Lord face to face. What a glorious day that will be!
betty
Words and music: Esther K. Rusthoi
From: Guitar Picker - www.gospelmusic.tk
It Will be Worth it All When We See Jesus
(When We See Christ)
D
Ofttimes the day seems long,
G D
Our trials hard to bear;
A
We’re tempted to complain,
D
To murmur and despair.
But Christ will soon appear
G D
To catch His bride away;
G D
All tears forever over,
G A7 D
In God’s eternal day.
Chorus:
D G D
It will be worth it all when we see Jesus;
A7 D
Life’s trials will seem so small when we see Christ.
G D
One glimpse of His dear face all sorrow will erase,
A7 D
So bravely run the race till we see Christ.
Sometimes the sky looks dark
With not a ray of light;
We’re tossed and driven on,
No human help in sight.
But there’s one in heaven
Who knows our deepest care;
Let Jesus solve your problem
Just go to Him in prayer.
Life’s days will soon be o’er,
All storms forever past;
We’ll cross the great divide
To glory safe at last.
We’ll share the joys of heav’n,
A harp, a home, a crown;
The tempter will be banished,
We’ll lay our burden down.
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What A Day That Will Be
Words and Music by Jim Hill
Mark 14:62
"And Jesus said, I AM:
and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power,
and coming in the clouds of heaven."
There is coming a day when no heartaches shall come
No more clouds in the sky, no more tears to dim the eye.
All is peace forevermore on that happy golden shore,
What a day, glorious day that will be.
Chorus
What a day that will be when my Jesus I shall see,
And I look upon His face,
The One who saved me by His grace;
When He takes me by the hand
And leads me through the Promised Land,
What a day, glorious day that will be.
There'll be no sorrow there, no more burdens to bear,
No more sickness, no pain, no more parting over there;
And forever I will be with the One who died for me,
What a day, glorious day that will be.
Chorus
What a day that will be when my Jesus I shall see,
And I look upon His face,
The One who saved me by His grace;
When He takes me by the hand
And leads me through the Promised Land,
What a day, glorious day that will be.
What a day, glorious day that will be!
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Watcher
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posted
I believe they ALL do.
Don't you? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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BORN AGAIN
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Dear Watcher, thanks for participating in this Topic.
In the Topic segment, I have listed all “the day of the LORD” that came up on a search in the KJV.
Regarding your post, which, if any, of the scriptures listed in the Topic segment most fit what you have said in your post?
Thanks, BORN AGAIN
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Watcher
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The Day of the LORD is a special term in the Bible used to refer to a period of time when God directly intervenes in human affairs---in judgment or in blessing. The Day of the Lord we are presently waiting for in our time frame will begin with the rapture of the church and will continue through the tribulation period (seven years), and on through the thousand-year reign of Christ on earth until the time of the "new heavens and new earth." (Rev. 21)
In contrast to the coming Day of the Lord, we can think of the present age as "The Day of Man," because God has allowed human evil to run its full course in our time. God's interference with man's attempts to conduct his own affairs as he pleases, is today minimal. Although there is restraint from God on man's attempts to run things, God is now allowing what is called "the mystery of lawlessness" to run its course. The culmination of "Man's Day" will be the appearance on the stage of history of a great world leader, a "lawless one," who will in actuality attempt to counterfeit God's Messiah and King, Jesus.
"For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:7-12)
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Watcher
Whoso rewardeth evil for good, evil shall not depart from his house. He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.
Proverbs 17:13,15
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BORN AGAIN
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1. Isaiah 2:12
For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:
2. Isaiah 13:6
Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
3. Isaiah 13:9
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
4. Jeremiah 46:10
For this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.
5. Ezekiel 13:5
Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
6. Ezekiel 30:3
For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; IT SHALL BE THE TIME OF THE HEATHEN {my all-caps}.
1. Joel 1:15
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
2. Joel 2:1
Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;
3. Joel 2:11
And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?
4. Joel 3:14
Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
5. Amos 5:18
Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
6. Amos 5:20
Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
7. Obadiah 1:15
For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as you hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
8. Zephaniah 1:7
Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
9. Zephaniah 1:14
The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
10. Zechariah 14:1
Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Now, post-Yahshua-Jesus:
1. 1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
2. 2 Corinthians 1:14
As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are our's in the day of the Lord Jesus.
3. 1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
4. 2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
What do you think that the day of the LORD is?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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