Christian Chat Network

This version of the message boards has closed.
Please click below to go to the new Christian BBS website.

New Message Boards - Click Here

You can still search for the old message here.

Christian Message Boards


Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply
| | search | faq | forum home
  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Bible Topics & Study   » Deviating from Biblical Christianity - The Good the Bad and the Ugly (Page 2)

 
This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Author Topic: Deviating from Biblical Christianity - The Good the Bad and the Ugly
Carmela
Advanced Member
Member # 4817

Icon 16 posted      Profile for Carmela     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I'm only going to respond once because this post is in the wrong place and I only read replies and not the extremely long post. However, we were told in the bible to go to church. If Jesus didn't want us to have someone to lead us, then He wouldn't have told us to go to church. If you read back in the Old Testament, the people needed someone to lead them or they fell into pagan worship. Like when Moses was on the mount 40 days and returned to Aaron building a golden calf because the people didn't know how to go to God Himself, or they often chose not to, but they needed a leader. People today still need a leader and since no church is perfect, they choose the best church they can. You chose a church that believes as you do, and we do the same. Who says that makes you right, and me wrong? Afterall, only God knows for sure. You certainly don't have all of the right answers, and neither do I.

He also told us to fellowship with each other and church is often the only time some newer Christians, or Christians that only know the basics, fellowship with others. So it's also where we should be so that we can teach others about a deeper relationship with Christ. Jesus said GO and Teach right? It's our job to teach people to line up the word spoken in the church with the word of God, but then again since you are teaching the bible is full or erros, there isn't any true doctrine to line up the spoken word with the True word of God I guess.

No offense, but I have seen each of you say things that didn't line up with God's word also but I don't attack you because none of us are perfect, plus it doesn't do any good anyway. It only causes problems and when Christians start arguing whether in church or a forum, it's a bad witness to others.

I do agree however, that when we go to a church--and if you find the one that is absolutely perfect please let me know, but I don't think you will-- that we need to line up every word spoken with God's word. Of course since you want people to believe the bible is full of error, then I guess that doesn't leave any place for anyone to really seek the truth of what Jesus taught. After all, if there are errors, then why read the bible since we can't tell what is true, and what isn't.

Also, I do agree that many translations of the bible are corrupt and either add or subtract from the originally writing. That is why I stick with the King James bible. Some argue it isn't good either, so which bible is exactly correct that I can follow since many of us don't know Greek or Hebrew so can't read the actual translation. I have lined up the King James Version with the actual Greek and Hebrew translations and found it to be quite accurate. Often the Greek and Hebrew use words that have more than one meaning when we only have 1 meaning for the word. Many use love as an example. We say love. The Greek has several different words for love and each have a slightly different meaning like brotherly life or God's perfect love. So the bible isn't in error, it just gives a little less of a detailed meaning since we only have the word LOVE.

My question is this. You are teaching everyone that the bible has errors so why should anyone read it? I mean afterall, if I were a new Christian and I took your word for it, then I would have to read the bible and wonder if it's even telling the truth. We are to teach people to read God's word, not to doubt it. Nothing you reply to me will make me feel like I can feel comfortable reading the bible since you say it has errors and you teach new Christians this before they even understand what Christianity is about or what the bible teaches.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

Posts: 646 | From: Central New York | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
It was funny because when I posted this article I thought to myself, are those really commendations, Paul says that if we give our bodies to be burned and have not agape, we are nothing. To me all the good works in the world are still man's works if it is not come the outflowing of Christ in us. You simply cannot be producing apostacy and agape at the same time; so for some of the listed here the commendations are a matter of opinion, but this author sought to say good things as well as bad about each group and thus the title of the article the "good, the bad and the ugly"

Amen to your post Walt! "Most people are following a church, rather than Christ."

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

Icon 1 posted      Profile for SoftTouch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
AMEN Linda, Drew and Walt!

--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891

Icon 1 posted      Profile for wparr     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Most Pentecostals also have many of the same man-made legalistic problems listed under the Evangelicals
Commendations:

+ Enthusiastic worship
+ Strong desire to live out the Christian life
+ Strong Evangelism
+ Most expect the literal fulfillment of prophetic scriptures
+ Missionary support
+ Some Christian education
+ Some discipleship
+ All believe that original scripture is without error
+ Most keep the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Most services are Bible centered
+ Some home fellowships
+ Charity




Amen - that is the type of Pentecostal or Evangelistic Church I would follow.
Great example of the problem

quote:
Amen - that is the type of Pentecostal or Evangelistic Church I would follow.
Most people are following a church, rather than Christ.

They are looking for the type of STUFF that make them feel good in worship.

Then they end up following false teachers and doctrines, and they defend it to the hilt because it makes them feel good, or it feels right.

That's how the deceiving spirit led people like Hinn and the rest have such a large following.

STOP FOLLOWING CHURCHES AND PEOPLE

START FOLLOWING CHRIST

Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
HisGrace
unregistered


Icon 1 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Most Pentecostals also have many of the same man-made legalistic problems listed under the Evangelicals
Commendations:

+ Enthusiastic worship
+ Strong desire to live out the Christian life
+ Strong Evangelism
+ Most expect the literal fulfillment of prophetic scriptures
+ Missionary support
+ Some Christian education
+ Some discipleship
+ All believe that original scripture is without error
+ Most keep the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Most services are Bible centered
+ Some home fellowships
+ Charity

Amen - that is the type of Pentecostal or Evangelistic Church I would follow.
IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

Icon 15 posted      Profile for Caretaker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Amen Sis!!!!!!

It is an absolutely excellent overview of the different primary segiments of those who claim Christ. Right on the money and the author pulls no punches.

It covers RCC, Orthodoxy, Evangelical, and Pentecostal, with the "nuts and bolts" of their respective perspectives. Thank you for posting.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Pentecostals

Like the Evangelicals most of the Pentecostals and Charismatics have confessed Jesus as Lord and are born of the Spirit. Of all these groups, Pentecostals live out their faith the most, but lack of discipline and accountability in the Church has given rise to quite a bit of deviant Christianity. Some of their beliefs and practices have separated them from other true Christians and limited their growth. Some of it is occult and parallels new age teaching. The main problem with Pentecostals seems to be a lack of discernment, because many have become incredibly gullible to every new whim of doctrine.

A few decades ago most of the Charismatics split into four camps. One camp stayed with true biblical Christianity the other camp went on to experience-based belief and have gone off into a ever descending spiral of more and more error and even doctrine of demons. The third camp calls themselves "Word Churches" they have "embraced name it and claim it" theology. The forth camp is those who have bought into Kingdom now/Reconstruction/Dominion theology that does away with premillennial beliefs, and the literal reading of unfulfilled prophetic scripture and replaces it with the theology that the Church will rule on earth before Jesus returns. In some of these churches, the camps overlap and it gets really hard to sort it all out.

Problems:

Most confuse being filled with the Spirit for service, with Spirit baptism and teach people that they get the Holy Spirit in a separate experience after conversation, as if you can separate Jesus and the Spirit (there is one God). Many have back rooms where by emotional effort, peer pressure and trying to speak in tongues they try to get you the Holy Ghost
Many say the only initial evidence of being born of the spirit is speaking in tongues and say other Christians that haven't had this experience are not born of the spirit. By this doctrine they divide the body of Christ and by saying that Evangelical Christians do not have the Holy Spirit they insult the Spirit that is obviously working through all born again believers
Many appoint new converts and the unproved to positions of leadership contrary to scripture and many of these cause great ruin to the Church
In many churches there is little accountability and the leadership often goes astray
Many are ritualistic. Even though most of the members came out of ritualistic churches like Catholicism and Liberal Protestantism they have incorporated new rituals back into the Church. Some of these new rituals are praying and singing in tongues during the service, anointing everything with oil to get rid of evil spirits, raising of hands as the only correct position of worship, slaying in the spirit, casting out demons and healing lines
Many have rejected the priesthood of Catholicism but then created a new special priesthood of anointed leaders
Some claim to be prophets and make prophetic statements but their prophecies do not come true, yet they are still embraced as prophets by the leadership and most members
Too many in this movement go to the traveling circus clowns like Benny Hinn to find phony healing instead of asking for the spiritual elders of the Church to pray so God may really heal them
Some think you can become a prophet by self appointment and self will. They also think you can learn how to be a prophet by going to a prophetic school
Too many of the leaders are con artists and buffoons who fleece the sheep and open the body of Christ to unnecessary ridicule
Too many of the leaders are hypnotists or loud mouth bully control freaks that coerce the church into altered states of reality and emotionalism
Too many confessed conversions are by coercion, peer pressure and emotionalism. Many are pressured to do what the leaders ask and soon fall away because their confessed conversion was not genuine
Too many of the leaders twist the meanings of scripture to support a pet or even deviant doctrine
Some teach emotional experience is just as reliable as scripture
Some teach name it and claim it and positive confession -- "if you believe it you will receive it"
Some teach that we are now gods and we have God like power in our words. They assert that we can speak things into existence
Some teach spiritual laws and that God is subject to them and thus make God someone to be manipulated by following some set formula designed by men
Some teach that faith is believing in belief. They teach you will receive what you believe (faith in faith)
Some claim healing that never happened, hoping that this confession will really bring it about. Others proclaim hearsay about healing from others as gospel truth
Some deny the triune nature of God taught throughout scripture
Some teach the King James translation is the only inerrent version (errors and all). Many teach that the King James Bible is the only correct translation and that other honest translations of scripture are Satanic
Some add to "salvation by faith" the false doctrine of "being saved by works of obedience"
Some say the ritual of water baptism by immersion with a preacher saying the words "I baptize you into the name of Jesus Christ" is required for salvation and say all those baptized by sprinkling or baptized into the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not saved
Some believe that doctrines taught by their denomination are essential for salvation and thus rule out all other Christians as even being Christian
Some take an obscure scripture and make it a doctrine (like handling snakes)
Some claim to cast demons out of true Christians
Some allow women to be pastors and to rule over men contrary to scripture
Some make railing accusations against Satan for sins of the flesh and don't take personal responsibility for sin in their life
Some now follow teaching that every disaster in the US is linked to Israel. As if God allows tit for tat disasters to come on the US for every dealing with unbelieving Israel. Even in the ancient history of Israel when God brought judgment on the enemies of Israel it was first spoken of by the prophets and the judgments came in God's own timing. If one follows this thinking to its logical conclusion, all the disasters in the world are related to Israel and current events and not to a fallen world. Otherwise, why single out the US who really is Israel's best friend? These teachers search long and hard after every disaster and can always find some obscure link to a dealing the US had with the state of Israel. They are especially busy in the fall when it is hurricane season. This teaching is not credible and it opens Christian Zionism up to much ridicule
Some Pentecostals still follow the teachings of those who claim there are hidden equal distance codes in the Bible even after this theory has been disproved. Some of these are even using their perceived hidden codes as a crystal ball to predict the future
Some embrace Kingdom now/Reconstruction/Dominion theology, which does away with the restoration of natural Israel and the literal reading of unfulfilled prophetic scripture and replaces it with a strange doctrine that is not taught in the Bible. They say the Church will rule on earth before Jesus can return.
Most Pentecostals also have many of the same man-made legalistic problems listed under the Evangelicals
Commendations:

+ Enthusiastic worship
+ Strong desire to live out the Christian life
+ Strong Evangelism
+ Most expect the literal fulfillment of prophetic scriptures
+ Missionary support
+ Some Christian education
+ Some discipleship
+ All believe that original scripture is without error
+ Most keep the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Most services are Bible centered
+ Some home fellowships
+ Charity

Having said the good the bad and the ugly there are many fruitful Christians in the Evangelical and Pentecostal Churches. Here is what I believe is the Lord's message to these people:

Rev 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and none shall shut, and that shutteth and none openeth:
8 I know thy works (behold, I have {1} set before thee a door opened, which none can shut), that thou hast a little power, and didst keep my word, and didst not deny my name. {1) Gr given}
9 Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and {1} worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. {1) The Greek word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to a creature, or to the Creator.}
7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth and none shall shut, and that shutteth and none openeth:
8 I know thy works (behold, I have {1} set before thee a door opened, which none can shut), that thou hast a little power, and didst keep my word, and didst not deny my name. {1) Gr given}
9 Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and {1} worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. {1) The Greek word denotes an act of reverence, whether paid to a creature, or to the Creator.}
10 Because thou didst keep the word of my {1} patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of {2} trial, that hour which is to come upon the whole {3} world, to {4} try them that dwell upon the earth. {1) Or stedfastness 2) Or temptation 3) Gr inhabited earth 4) Or tempt}
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown.
12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the {1} temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. {1) Or sanctuary}
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the {1} temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. {1) Or sanctuary}
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Conclusion
The scripture says that there will be a great falling away from the true faith in the last days. It says men will not endure sound doctrine but will have itching ears and will heap to themselves teachers that will fulfill their own lusts. We are in those days. There are almost two billion people who identify with Christianity on the earth today but how many are truly the bride of Christ? Jesus asked, when He returns will He find faith on the earth? The answer for most of the world is no. For those who identify with Christianity it is yes and no. Many today have only empty religion and not real faith in the Savior.

My best guess is a tithe (ten percent) of those who identify with Christianity are actually born of the Spirit and will go at the time of the rapture. (It could be more -- only God knows.) The ninety percent of carnal Christians that might stay will hardly miss them. Those that stay will remain in the apostate harlot church (Rev 17) and experience the great tribulation where they will have a choice to follow Jesus and lose their lives or follow Satan and lose their soul.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
HisGrace
unregistered


Icon 16 posted            Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
With all due respect Linda, don't you think this thread should be in the Exposing False Teaching forum?

There is a heading in that thread which reads.

Christian BBS Exposing False Teaching
To expose and debate false teachings of today! Please use this forum for this and not the Bible Study forum.


I would appreciate your kind consideration.

IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Evangelicals
Many of the Evangelicals have had a true born again experience and those that really believe are part of the one true Church. The following problems may not qualify as true apostasy from the faith but this deviation from the truths of true biblical Christianity by adding man-made doctrines and legalism is causing great harm to the Church.

Problems:

Many Evangelicals place too much emphasis on self reliance instead of relying on the Holy Spirit
Success seminars are taught on some church properties as if they were biblical doctrine
Many have introduced psychotherapy and its underlining psychologies in their counseling programs and replace Godly counsel with satanic theories
Some who call themselves evangelicals still embraced the mainline theology that the Church fulfills the promises that were given to natural Israel without condition. They say there is no future Kingdom on earth from Jerusalem contrary to many scripture passages that say there is a restoration on earth for natural Israel.
Some have little or no church discipline
Some have occult-like inner healing and birthing seminars
Some compromise essentials of the Christian faith for unity among denominations
Many pastors job-shop for materialistic or prestigious positions or run away from problems and divorce the flock they were called to serve
Many flocks divorce the elder over petty squabbles
The secondary leadership in the church too often is picked because of their position in the community or the size of their bank account
Some worship the idol of money and care more about their building programs than evangelism of the lost
many churches put a picture of a Norwegian on the wall and call him Jesus
Most have a country club mentality. They have wonderful fellowship and they have many programs for those in the club but they do little about improving the community they live in either spiritually or physically
Most have now replaced real Bible study with study of quarterly magazines about Bible passages
Many preach that all who drink any alcoholic beverages are sinning. Some even will not allow into their membership or will remove from their membership those who profess to use alcohol. They ignore or spin the fact that the Savior was called a winebibber because He drank wine and that Paul told Timothy to drink a little wine for his health. They also ignore the Old Testament scripture that says wine was given to make the heart glad. Contrary to the New Testament Greek, the words for grape juice in Hebrew are very specific as to whether it is fermented or unfermented grape juice. Common sense logic indicates that the scripture would not speak of drinking wine in excess and choosing elders that do not drink too much wine if drinking fermented wine was not in the permissive will of God under moderation. This practice was in the early church and is still is in most Christian denominations who have not bought into this man-made legalism. Those in this group that say the wine addressed was actually unfermented grape juice are not being logical about the context of these scripture passages. Some just need to stop repeating doctrines that they swallowed from legalistic teachers and study the context of all the passages themselves. Alcohol abuse is a sin but the Church needs to be truthful and credible and should not unduly put its members on guilt trips. They should not label people as sinners who in faith are generally practicing something that in moderation actually could be a health benefit to them
Some have created lists of actions of the flesh that they say are sinful such as drinking, smoking, dancing, watching movies or TV or even listening to certain Christian music. Some do not even allow musical instruments in church but these same churches ignore actions of the flesh like gluttony, gossip and judging everyone as sinners who have the greater faith to believe that God does not abide by their list of man made forbidden activities
Many, to be all inclusive and to reach non-believers, have made their worship service on Sunday to be a time to entertain rather than a time to feed the flock, worship God, and to provide the message of the true way to salvation to the lost
Some apply the tithe system of government for Israel to the Church. They teach that Christians are required to tithe to their church as if this is New Testament truth. It is not! There is not a word about tithing in New Testament instruction to the Church but there is teaching about free will giving. If you want to teach it as an example-fine-but what many fail to understand is that God gave individuals in the Church the gift of giving and most Christian funding is funded by such individuals. It is a well known fact that teaching on tithing does not have a long term impact on the amount of giving in the Church. This teaching unduly puts guilt and burdens on the poor that God never intended. It also tells the rich that it is in God's will for them to use 90 percent for themselves and their living style when they should and could do much more. When the Church in Jerusalem was in poverty, did the members tithe or did funds come from others moved by the Holy Spirit to give? When people on assistance are given exactly what they need to live on by charities or by government through the donations and taxes that comes from others, should the church then be robbing the donors and the poor by telling them to give ten percent of these funds to their church organization? I can build a better case from scripture that the the Church itself should be giving a tithe of its income to its needy members than the needy giving a tithe to the Church. If you still insist on teaching people to tithe as Israel did. You also should know Israel had three tithes and following that example will require your members to give about 22 percent of their increase not 10 percent. (good luck!)
Many do not fully understand that the Christians are the temple of God. Their building is a building, not a holy sanctuary. The people who make up the Church are the holy sanctuary. There is no special grace for those who come to the front of the building to pray. This practice is fine as a testimony that one has responded to a call to be saved, to follow a church ordinance or to be prayed with by an elder, but God is not anymore present in the front of the building than He is anywhere else. God's sanctuary is in His people and He is not more present in the front of any building.
Many have now bought into the seeker-friendly church growth movement which is driven by leaders that are under the influence of the heretical teachings of people like Robert Shuller. They knowingly or unknowingly use new age language, concepts and paraphrases of the Bible that twist scripture. The leadership in general sees the Church ruling on earth before the return of Christ and they tell their people that studying future bible prophecy is a distraction
Commendations:

+ Strong Christian education
+ Some discipleship
+ Some evangelism
+ A good grasp on the doctrine of salvation
+ They all keep the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Strong missionary support
+ Belief in the infallibility of Gods word
+ Bible centered services
+ Some community orientation/home fellowship groups
+ Charity

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The Protestants
There are about seven hundred to eight hundred million others that say they are Christians. Most of these call themselves Protestants, some of those labeled as Protestants are demonic cults. The majority of Protestants are in the large liberal Protestant denominations.

The overwhelming majority of the people in the liberal Protestant denominations have never had a born again experience nor do their lives reflect that God is indwelling them. Most of them do not regularly fellowship with other believers or attend services. Many that do attend services are Sunday Christians. There is no fellowship with Jesus or each other outside the church service.

For the most part their Christianity is cultural and the relationship they have with God is superficial. Many believe in humanism, socialism, evolution, and the basic goodness of man rather then what the scriptures teach. Few people in the liberal denominations know the essentials of their own faith. Many believe that all religion leads to God.

(Within the Protestants there are about three hundred million Evangelicals and Pentecostal Protestants that have for the most part kept the true faith. The things listed below should not apply to them. I write about their own unique problems in a later paragraph.)

Problems:

Most believe that people are saved into the church through infant baptism, contrary to scripture
Some believe that people are saved by the ritual of baptism
Many have retained much of the heretical doctrines of the Catholics
Most lord the clergy over the laity
Some do away with the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
Some put men under the authority of women contrary to scriptures
Some condone abortion
Many have no salvation message and preach only a social gospel
Too many churches put a picture of a Norwegian on their wall and call him Jesus
Many think they are Christians because that is their tradition and culture
Some think that Christianity is just one of many ways to God
Some churches teach humanism instead of the teachings of Christ
Some teach a message of materialism
Some do not believe that Jesus was God
Some think that Christ is a consciousness and Jesus will not return physically (unity)
Some teach that man is a perfect spirit and all we see is an illusion (Christian Science)
Some cults make Jesus a lesser God. Mormons and Jehovah witnesses
Most are amillennial and do not teach the imminent return of Christ
Some teach doctrines of satanic psychology
Some are state supported churches that are spiritually dead
Most churches have no discipline or accountability for its membership
Some teach that the Church has replaced Israel and allegorize or spiritulize prophetic scripture
Some let flagrant sinners lead the flock
Commendations:
+ Some are community orientated
+ Some have Christian education
+ Many still believe in the infallibility of scripture
+ Most still confess most of the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Some support missionaries
+ Some have good youth and social programs

I believe the message from Jesus to these churches is:

Rev 3:1 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars: I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and thou art dead.
2 Be thou watchful, and establish the things that remain, which were ready to die: for I have {1} found no works of thine perfected before my God. {1) Many ancient authorities read not found thy works}
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and didst hear; and keep it, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 But thou hast a few names in Sardis that did not defile their garments: and they shall walk with me in white; for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh shall thus be arrayed in white garments; and I will in no wise blot his name out of the book of life, and I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Rev 3:14¶ And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God:
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and have gotten riches, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art the wretched one and miserable and poor and blind and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold refined by fire, that thou mayest become rich; and white garments, that thou mayest clothe thyself, and that the shame of thy nakedness be not made manifest; and eyesalve to anoint thine eyes, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I reprove and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The bottom line

The Roman Catholic Church as an institution is mostly apostate and leads very few people to the true Jesus of scriptures. The majority in this church do not even practice Catholicism. Most that do, only have a religion and not Jesus. There are some in this church that have been born of the Holy Spirit but many of these are not producing the fruit that they should. The good works they think they do in many cases are nothing more than empty rituals and practices contrary to God's will. After the rapture of true believers, what is left of the Roman Catholic Church will become the head of the great harlot religious system that will bring in the Antichrist and his false prophet. The majority of this church (Thyatira in the book of Revelation) will be tried by fire in the great tribulation (the real purgatory for Catholics).

Commendations:

+ Catholic charities
+ They preserved the scriptures
+ Church discipline
+ Strong community orientation
+ Social Programs
+ Hates abortion
+ Teaches against the faithless practice of birth control
+ They still teach some of the essential doctrines of the faith
+ Strong school system that still teaches moral absolutes
+ Believes scriptures are God inspired


The Orthodox Churches
These churches have about one hundred fifty million followers.

This church is much like the Roman Catholics although many of the Roman Catholic heresies are not taught. However they have more heresies of their own. They teach that members are saved by the teachings and traditions of the church, by the sacraments of the church, and through praying to icons. The essential doctrine of being saved by faith is not taught. This institutional church is mostly apostate and the Church in general has done few good works on the earth.

I believe this is Jesus' message to the Catholic and Orthodox Church.

Rev 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like a flame of fire, and his feet are like unto burnished brass:
19 I know thy works, and thy love and faith and ministry and patience, and that thy last works are more than the first.
20 But I have this against thee, that thou sufferest the woman Jezebel, who calleth herself a prophetess; and she teacheth and seduceth my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.
21 And I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent of her fornication.
22 Behold, I cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of her works.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he that searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto each one of you according to your works.
24 But to you I say, to the rest that are in Thyatira, as many as have not this teaching, who know not the deep things of Satan, as they are wont to say; I cast upon you none other burden.
25 Nevertheless that which ye have, hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:
27 and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father:
28 and I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

for additional references check my scripture references and see: "all the letters of Paul in the New Testament"

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
The cult of Mary

A large sect in this church teaches that Mary is co-Redeemer and that she was without sin. The scripture says that there is salvation in no other name than Christ Jesus. The scriptures also say that all have sinned including Mary. Jesus said that John the Baptist was the greatest of all born of women. Why did He not say His mother was if she was without sin? When the natural mother of Jesus and His brothers (yes, Jesus had brothers according to scripture) thought He went crazy and wanted to talk to Him, Jesus said His mother and brothers are those that do the will of His Father. Mary is not the mother of God, she is the mother of the natural body that God incarnated. Mary is not the mother of the Church. She had to believe to be saved and to receive the Holy Spirit and become a member of the "body of Christ" like everyone else. How can Mary be the mother of a membership that includes herself?

The idea that Mary is interceding for the Christians and appearing to many and giving statements to people that are often contrary to the scriptures is an insult to Mary. The bottom line of these apparitions at the very least is a message of salvation by works which will save no one. Furthermore, many Catholics are now into witchcraft and things forbidden in the Bible because they believe in these lies. Much of what is being said by apparitions attributed to Mary parallels pagan new age teachings and doctrine of demons. Those into Mariology like to reduce the God of the Universe to a child on Mary's knee but He is a consuming fire and the only intermediator between God and man.

Saying the Rosary with its "Hail Mary's" is rote prayer to someone other than God. This is idolatry! Jesus said to pray to the Father. If He wanted people to pray to his earthly mother He would have said so. Furthermore, how in the world could anyone really believe that Mary would want to hear the same prayer over and over and over again? Do people think that she or they get power from their chanting? This is witchcraft! Even common sense should tell them that no one wants to hear the same thing over and over again. I think the real Mary of the Bible would tell the people who chant these prayers to shut up.

Many times the real reasons for the rote prayer is not even addressed in the prayer service. For example, when Catholics pray "Hail Mary's" in front of abortion clinics, this ritualistic chanting leaves the body of Christ open to much ridicule by unbelievers and all of this is a counterfeit substitution for real prayer to God about the real situation needing prayer. The scripture tells us not to say rote prayers as the heathen do who think they will be heard for their many words. We are told that God knows what we need before we ask. Our requests should be like a child toward his Father. Try saying the same thing fifty or more times to your earthly father or mother daily and note their response to you.

The "queen of heaven" was worshiped in ancient Babylon. She also had a child in her arms. This was not Mary and Jesus but they were demon gods. God did not have anything good to say about the people who worshiped her (see references). Obviously some Catholics have used the blessed name of Mary of scripture to incorporate pagan Babylonian practices and beliefs into the Church.

The doctrine of purgatory

The doctrine of purgatory is an insult to Jesus and the finished work that He did on the cross to pay for the sins of the whole world. If we sin He is faithful to forgive us our sins if we confess them to Him. Scripture says that there is now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Jesus either paid for all sins past, present, and future or He paid for none of them. Scripture teaches no other doctrine.

Many other heresies

In much of the third world Catholicism has been integrated with pagan witchcraft and no major correction is coming from Rome. Yet the Vatican rails against those who teach true Christianity to those doing such things
The scapular is worn by some Catholics who believe that salvation can come from something they hang around their neck
Holy water, medals, holy pictures and objects blessed by a priest is simply belief in witchcraft
The Pope as the vicar of Christ is not scriptural and many Popes have been anti-Christ. Peter was not the first Pope. The first real Pope was Leo 1 about 400 years later. Peter was an apostle to the Jews. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles from which our denominations of today descended
The present Pope has called Moslems brothers, kissed the Koran and said that Moslems are on a path to God. He has formed a close friendship with the top leader of Eastern Pagan religion and then he tells Catholics that salvation of the earth comes through Mary. Next, he warns Catholics about the Christian evangelicals who teach the Bible. He welcomes non believers in Christ as brothers and does not rescind the many condemnations made by the Catholic Church against Protestant believers. This is not Christian leadership it is the type of anti-Christ leadership that Paul warned Christians to beware of
Many Catholic Churches even allow gambling and drinking on the church premises to raise funds
The Catholic Church has a wretched history and continues countless heretical teachings. Read "The Women Rides the Beast" by Dave Hunt for more detailed information.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
What do the large Christian denominations now confess?

Unfortunately, most of the large Christian denomination leadership has become infiltrated by the elite of Satan and much of the institutional church has fallen away from the true faith. Some have a different Jesus then the Jesus of scripture. After the rapture of the faithful Christians the apostate church will go on without skipping a beat. In following paragraphs I give my reasons for saying there is now apostasy in the church throughout the institutional churches that call themselves Christian.

The Roman Catholic Church.

The membership of this church is more than half of all identified as Christianity (over one billion people) but the majority of Catholics baptized into the denomination do not even regularly practice their religion. Additionally, many Catholics know little about their own beliefs or they ignore the doctrine. Many integrate it with native pagan religions.

This denomination teaches that you are saved by grace, faith and works. God's grace is something you must earn by keeping the church sacraments, traditions and rituals. The priests of the church are successors of the apostles and have all of Christ's authority on earth. The priests are grace dispensers and the church is infallible. If you accumulate enough merit you will go to heaven. Otherwise you will have to go through the fires of purgatory or to hell. The writings of the Church fathers and the traditions of the Church have equal weight with the Holy Scriptures. The members are in the process of being saved by their works of merit.

Problems:

Many of the church's traditions and practices are contrary to scripture proving that this church is far from being infallible. Satan with his wolves in sheep's clothing has infiltrated this church and corrupted it. The Catholic Church has become like corrupted Judaism that Jesus condemned. It is largely a church of Pharisees and of blind ritual -- a church of idolatry, rote prayer, and traditions of men.

The seven sacraments

The seven Sacraments of the Catholic Church are rituals for grace. The church believes that the ritual itself will dispense grace from God. It appears that the church puts the cart before the horse. There is no spiritual grace in ritual, but power from the Spirit does come from a changed heart.

The sacrament of the baptism of infants is not scriptural or logical. The ritual of baptism is for identifying believers with the death and resurrection of Jesus. Babies do not believe. True baptism is dying with Christ and being born into a new creation called the "body of Christ".
The sacrament of the Eucharist should be a memorial and remembrance of Christ's broken body and shed blood for us. There is no place in scripture that says we are to offer Christ's body on the altar daily or that a wafer actually becomes the body of Jesus, and by putting Him in your stomach you will receive Him into your body or get grace from Him.
The Sacrament of contrition and penance is contrary to scripture. The scriptures say that Jesus is the only intermediator between God and man. The doctrine that you can have your sins forgiven by confession to a priest who then intermediates and gives absolution if you do the penance he dictates, abolishes what Jesus did for us on the cross for all sin. Who is sinless enough to intermediate for us with God except Jesus, and which sin did Jesus not pay for?
This church teaches that the sacrament of confirmation is where you get the power of the Holy Spirit. The scriptures however, teach that you get the Holy Spirit when you believe and you get power to do His will when you earnestly pray for it.
Marriage is a union between two people. There is no reason given in scripture for it to be a Church sacrament or for the ceremony even to be performed by the clergy -- not that the practice of getting married by the elder of any church is wrong.
The ordination of a special priesthood is contrary to scripture. The scripture teaches that we are all kings and priests in Christ Jesus.
The sacrament of Extreme Unction indicates that the dying get some special grace by having a priest say some ritualistic prayers over them. This is a distortion of the true biblical practices of elders praying over the sick.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

Icon 1 posted      Profile for helpforhomeschoolers   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
This was posted on another board and I thought that it was really good. I am going to post it in sections for ease of reading:

The reason for this article on Apostasy in the Church

Most of the major Christian denominations have deviated from biblical Christianity in one way or another. It is not the purpose of this article to point a finger at any one group, or to tell true Christians to get out of their denomination or not to fellowship. I understand that this article will not win me any popularity contest but very few others are talking about the apostasy in the church institutions that identifies with Christianity and the practices within that deviate from true biblical Christianity.

The one true Church of God is interwoven in all Christian denominations. I have noticed in my own experiences that there is at least a small core of believers in just about every church in every denomination. I have at one time in my life been part of all the major groups listed below and I have first hand knowledge of what they practice (except the Orthodox).

My purpose is to expose the darkness so that the true light of the gospel of Christ will shine. I do not believe that true Christians can significantly change an overwhelmingly apostate carnal Christian church. What we can do however, is not be deceived by Satan or support what is not of God in our churches.

Who is a Christian?
There are nearly two billion people on the earth who identify themselves as Christians, but there are significantly fewer that are really part of the body of Christ.

Jesus said you can not enter the kingdom of heaven unless you are born of the Spirit. The birth of the Spirit occurs when a person truly believes that Jesus is the son of God and trusts in the finished work of Jesus on the cross to atone for their sins and to justify them before God.

The scriptures say you are saved by faith, not by your own works, lest anyone should boast.

We cannot judge if a person who identifies with Christianity is really trusting in Christ or in their religion to save them. If they are trusting in their religion to save them they are no more part of the body of Christ than a Jew or Moslem or any other religion.

Christianity is a personal relationship with Jesus. This relationship does not depend on having all the correct theology but correct theology will result in more fruitful Christianity.

Religion is basically Satanic.
All religion contains methods, rituals and practices for man to become good enough to ascend or evolve to God. All religion thus believes in the need to become righteous. True Christianity is the complete opposite. True Christianity believes in God's righteousness and that He was good enough to become a man, die for our sins and to breach the gap sin made between God and man. True Christianity believes God provides a free gift of eternal life to anyone who trusts in Him. Those who do trust Him are saved by His grace by having faith in His promise to give us a Savior.

Apostate Christianity (departure from true biblical Christianity) in its final analysis cannot be distinguished from any other religion in the world in its quest for God. No wonder apostate Christianity will be willing to join with all the other religions of the world. These nominal Christians think they are Christian just because it is part of their culture and because they believe in a higher power. Even demons believe in a higher power. Apostate Christianity has nothing to do with a born again experience with the evidence of a Holy Spirit changed life.

Some in religious training were taught that Jesus died for their sins and that they are saved or justified, but in their lives there is no evidence by works of the Spirit. Do they really have Jesus or do they only have head knowledge about Him? Do they have Churchianity or Christianity?

Those that trust in their own good works to save them are self deceived and still in their sins. If there ever was a religion that could allow man to fellowship with God it was Judaism but the requirement was to keep all of God's law. The laws of Judaism did not achieve salvation because in man's fallen state he could never keep the whole law. Man's righteousness and good works can never bring about eternal life with God because man always falls short of the required perfection necessary to dwell in the presence of a Holy God. Yet Judaism did not fail because through the tribe of Judah a Savior from God was born.

True Christianity
Jesus being born a man but being also God perfectly fulfilled the law. He Himself had no sin but He obediently paid the price for the curse on man under God's perfect law. Atonement for sin that was brought into the world by Adam's disobedience was paid for by the obedience of God's Lamb by death on the cross. At the cross he took the curse upon Himself for it is written "cursed is anyone who hangs on a tree" (Gal 3:13). Death could not hold the Creator and He rose to begin a new creation and in doing so condemned the old fallen creation to its eternal destruction. Those who trust Him are born again into this new new creation of believers called the "Body of Christ". After we are born into this new creation, God no longer sees us as the sinners we were but sees us as the sinless "body and bride of Christ". (The scripture says in marriage the two shall become one flesh - Paul used this as the example of Christ and the Church - Eph 5: 31- 32.)

"True Christianity is then believing that God's promise to provide a Savior was fulfilled in His Son Jesus." This promise of a Savior and Messiah to restore man's fellowship with God is integrated throughout all scripture.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator



This topic comprises 2 pages: 1  2 
 
Post New Topic  New Poll  Post A Reply Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
 - Printer-friendly view of this topic
Hop To:

Contact Us | Christian Message Board | Privacy Statement



Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

Christian Chat Network

New Message Boards - Click Here