|
Author
|
Topic: Was Jesus Christ Born With A Sin Nature?
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Is Jesus YHWH manifest in the flesh??
Yes he is.
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
Is Jesus YHWH manifest in the flesh??
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
Thank you Adv.Christian for taking the time to offer your opinion. I still must respectfully disagree with you though (as I'm sure you're not surprised).
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Adv.Christian
Advanced Member
Member # 3453
|
posted
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) Brother Jasonlevene I say this not to incite a conflict of opinion in fact I will not partake of that due to reasons of my own, I will only say this one time. I find your stance to be consistent with the original questions posed by my young adult class as to why Jesus did or did not have sin.
Biblically Jesus was, is and always will be perfect. Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
The immediate question which is brought up by this is how the temptation of Christ can have existed if He did not have propensity towards sin. Just as Christ taught throughout His ministry and Brother David attempted to convey to you earlier, while Christ fully had the ability to sin He more importantly had the ability not to. Christ was a duel nature existing in one person, there was the human nature (fully having the ability to sin) and then His divine nature (Wholly and completely without sin). Christ divine nature prevented Him from sinning but only by having the ability to sin was Christ able to defeat sin showing that through the divine presence of Christ in us we are also able to stand firm. As Christians we also have a duality to our natures, that of sin and that of the Holy Spirit. The closer one gets and the more control we release of our lives to the Spirit the more we are able not only to not sin but more importantly to not desire to do the sin in the first place.
As to your interpretation of the consequence of Adams original sin I would humbly advise you to delve a little closer on this matter and to its implications. The sentence of imminence death was not in reference to the mortal body of man as is so commonly taught, but in fact deals on a far greater level of mans existence. Original man had a total and uninterrupted physical walk with God (in the physical presence of God). After the sin of man God withdrew from the close relationship and sin entered and became part of mans existence. As sin abounded God was pushed farther and farther from mans life (the absence of God in ones life is death and eternal death is the final separation from God permanently)
Christ was born of a Virgin as foretold by prophecy in order to give mankind a sign. Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. There is more but I must go for now as always my love to all and May God Bless. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
--------------------
A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
|
posted
The primary biblical reason that in Jesus does not have a sinful nature is because Jesus is both God and man in one person.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by David:
[QB] One of the main verses they use to support their erroneous doctrine is Rom. 8:3-4 which says, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh." They teach that the "likeness of sinful flesh" means that Jesus had a sinful nature. But it doesn't. The key to understanding this verse is the word "likeness." If this word were omitted then the text would say "...sending His own Son in sinful flesh..." If that is what the verse said then the Christadelphians would have a valid argument. But the text says that Jesus came in the "likeness" of sinful flesh, not that He came in sinful flesh. In other words, men are sinners. Jesus appeared as a man. Therefore, Jesus appeared in the likeness of a sinner, though He was not a sinner.
Romans 6:3-4 supports that Jesus was born with a sinful nature as long as you understand what Adam and Eve's curse of death was. You see it is taught that because Adam and Eve did not physically die on the very day of their sin, the curse of death was the 'spiritual' sexually inherited sin nature that Jesus bypassed by being born of a virgin. The problem with that teaching is that it can not explain why Adam and Eve originally sinned. In fact it contradicts the bible's explanation as to why Adam and Eve sinned. And that explanation can be found in 1 John 2:!6 which says:
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of this world.
Now what does that have to do with Adam and Eve? Take a look at Genesis 3:5-6 which says:
For God knows that in the you eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as gods knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat and also gave to her husband and he did eat.
Do you see the connection? In Genesis 3:3 Eve sees the tree of knowledge fruit as deadly but in only a few verses later, she sees it as desirable. Why? Because in her sin nature desires to be like God in knowing good and evil, Satan's lie became the truth and God's truth became a lie. This is nature of Eve's deception. Adam just wanted that knowledge of good and evil more than remaining obedient to God. He knowingly sinned - much like Peter denying Jesus 3 times despite declaring him to have been the son of the living God.
So it should be clear to you that the sinful nature was inherent in humanity since day 1. How can God have created Adam and Eve with a sin nature and declared them to have been 'very good'? Well consider that Satan was created 'perfect' yet he sinned because in his pride jealousy envy and greed, he believed his beauty entitled him to be worshipped as God. Now where would that pride and envy come from in a 'perfect' creation? The sin nature is that part of us all (all of creation) that desires evil as opposed to that part of us that desires good. We choose which to gratify and thus are rendered guilty sinners or obedient subjects (James 1:14-15). In other words, if the sin nature renders one a sinner, then Adam and Eve were created as sinners because they were created with the sin nature. To say thus that Jesus was born with a sin nature does not mean he was 'blemished'. To say he succumbed to the sin nature means he was blemished. And to say that Jesus was born with a sin nature is not contradictory to his deity (and for the record I am not a Christadelphian) any more than saying his eating sleeping and walking were contradictions to his deity. Jesus was on the same level as Adam and Eve before their sin: obedient to God as opposed to the sin nature.
So what was the curse for sin then? Genesis 3:22 explains that it was God's prohibition from the immortality-giving Garden of Eden tree of life. Sound wacky? Consider that Adam and Eve were commanded to multiply/reproduce before their sin so there was an aging process already inherent in Adam and Eve's original humanity. Starting to make sense now? The purpose of the Garden of Eden tree of life was to halt that aging process and render one immortal. But once Adam and Eve were cut off from that tree of life, that aging process would continue to run its course until the two would die some 900 years later. In other words, Adam and Eve did physically die on that day of their sin even though they continued to physically live for some 900 years. Not convinced? Well consider that we Christians count ourselves as already raised from the dead with Christ even though we still continue to die. Our resurrection is so certain that even though we die, we count ourselves as eternally alive. Well in like fashion, once Adam and Eve were cut off from the tree of life, their physical death was so certain that even though they continued to live, they were physically dead.
So what does this all have to do with Romans 6:3-4? The likeness of Jesus' flesh to ours was his mortality. We all die because we all succumb to the sin nature. Jesus died (submitting himself to the cross) in rejection of his sin nature (take this cup away from me) and he thus raised himself in immortality. Physical death kills the sin nature because it can not tempt anyone any longer. Read the entire 6th chapter of Romans and see that that's what it's all about.
So to conclude David, perhaps you can explain why it is that Jesus would ask something of God the Father that would have nullified YHWH altogether.
Jason
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
David: excellent post brother on the sinlessness of Jesus and its importance to the sufficiency of the sacrifice. There is much lack of understanding in this regard not just among groups like the Christadelphians but also slithering its was into the main line churches today. If Christ was not sinless, God manifest in the flesh, and the work not finished on the cross then our faith is in vain because that is the ONLY Jesus that is capable of being a propitation expiating and atoning for our sins.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
|
posted
No, Jesus did not have a sin nature. However, that has not stopped the Christadelphians from teaching He did. This is not surprising considering they deny the doctrine of the Trinity and the deity of Jesus. As with all non-Christian cults that deny the true doctrine of God, other doctrines necessarily become incorrect as well. In this case, their error is that Jesus has a sin nature.
"Therefore, we conclude that it is not only that Jesus was called a sinner at his trial by his enemies or that he was 'numbered with the transgressors' when he was crucified between two thieves, but more particularly that he shared the very nature which had made a sinner out of ever other man who had borne it. It is for this reason that the nature we bear is called "sinful flesh" or more briefly, 'sin' (Rom. 7:20 and 8:4)." (The Christadelphians: What They Believe and Preach, p. 74)
"And it was for that very reason -- being a member of a sinful race -- that the Lord Jesus himself needed salvation...But it is equally true that, being 'made sin for us' (2 Cor. 5:21), he himself required a sin offering; in other words, he sacrificed himself, for himself, that he might save us. Or, in other words, he saved himself in order to save us...That Christ needed salvation is seen from Psalm xci.16." (Christadelphian Answers, p. 24)
One of the main verses they use to support their erroneous doctrine is Rom. 8:3-4 which says, "For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh." They teach that the "likeness of sinful flesh" means that Jesus had a sinful nature. But it doesn't. The key to understanding this verse is the word "likeness." If this word were omitted then the text would say "...sending His own Son in sinful flesh..." If that is what the verse said then the Christadelphians would have a valid argument. But the text says that Jesus came in the "likeness" of sinful flesh, not that He came in sinful flesh. In other words, men are sinners. Jesus appeared as a man. Therefore, Jesus appeared in the likeness of a sinner, though He was not a sinner.
Another verse they use is Heb. 2:14 which says, "Since then the children share in flesh and blood, He Himself likewise also partook of the same, that through death He might render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil." This verse can easily be explained in the same manner as Rom. 8:3-4 above. Jesus partook of flesh and blood. But it does not here say that He had a sin nature.
To have a sin nature means that Jesus had a fallen, defiled, and unholy nature. I fail to see how an unholy person can offer a holy sacrifice sufficient to please an infinitely holy God. Of course, the Christadelphians say this is possible because, even though Jesus had a sin nature, He never committed a sin and He kept the Law therefore satisfying God. But that still doesn't answer the objection: If Jesus had a sinful and unholy nature, how is it possible for Him to provide a sinless and holy sacrifice especially since Eph. 2:3 states that we are by nature children of wrath? This means that the natural state of the fallen is judgment.
The problem with the Christadelphian position is that the Bible teaches us the sacrifice to God must be without blemish. Deut. 17:1 says, "You shall not sacrifice to the Lord your God an ox or a sheep which has a blemish or any defect, for that is a detestable thing to the Lord your God." (See also Ezekiel 43:22-23, 25; 45:18, 23 for the same theme.). Of course, Jesus is not an animal, but it is clear that the pattern for the sacrifice was that it have no defect at all. Why? Because God is holy and God doesn't accept imperfect sacrifices! To have a sinful nature is definitely to have a defect. Contrary to Christadelphian teaching, we can see from the Bible that Jesus has no defect, no blemish: "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?" (Heb. 9:14). This verse states that Jesus is without blemish. How can He be without blemish if He has a fallen and sinful nature?
For the Christadelphians to maintain that Jesus had a sinful nature is the same as saying that the offering He made had a defect. We can see that this is a problem because the High Priests of the Old Testament were fallen and had, themselves to be cleansed in order to offer the sacrifice to God. It wasn't simply that they were sinners. They were fallen by nature and were unholy.
Because the Christadelphians teach that Jesus had a fallen and sinful nature, there faith is in a defiled and imperfect sacrifice. It is, therefore, is insufficient. They are lost.
What does it mean to have a sin nature?
When we speak of the nature of something, we speak of its essence, character, and quality. The essence of God, for example, is holiness, purity, sinlessness, etc. The essence of people, on the other hand, is sinful. In Mark 7:21-23, Jesus discloses to us the very nature of our hearts when He said, "“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23“All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man,” (NASB). This is why it says in Eph. 2:3 that we are by nature children of the wrath; our hearts are sinful by nature which is the source of the sins listed by Jesus. This is also why Paul said in Rom. 7:18 that nothing good dwelt in him, that is, in his flesh. Paul knew his nature was sinful and because it was He was lost and without hope (except for his faith in Jesus and His unblemished sacrifice).
Are we to conclude from Christadelphian thinking that Jesus' fallen, unholy, and sinful nature produced a pure and perfect sacrifice without defect? How is that possible? How is it possible for someone unholy to offer a holy sacrifice? How is it possible for someone that is sinful by nature, to offer a sinless sacrifice? Just because Jesus never sinned doesn't mean that He was perfect. If He had a sin nature, He was not perfect. He was flawed. His sacrifice would be useless.
However, to the Christadelphians, the issue is not so much Jesus' sinful and fallen nature, as it is His ability to keep the Law. Therefore, in Christadelphianism we have a man, Jesus, with a sinful nature being able to perfectly keep all of God's law. Contrast this with Adam who was made sinless and yet to was not able to keep the law of God. How can Jesus have a sinful and unholy nature and yet be sinless and holy as a perfect, unblemished sacrifice? He cannot. The Christadelphians are wrong.
Jesus was tempted
One of the reasons the Christadelphians believe Jesus had a sinful nature is their claim that in order for Jesus to be tempted, He had to have a sin nature. But, this does not logically follow. Adam did not have a sinful nature and he was tempted successfully. He fell. Jesus did not have a sinful nature. He was tempted unsuccessfully. He did not fall. So, Jesus not having a sin nature does not mean He cannot be tempted.
Of course, the Christadelphians deny that Jesus is both God and man, even though this is what Col. 2:9 says: "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."2 In their quest to support their view, they sometimes quote James 1:13 which states that God cannot be tempted by evil. They ask, if Jesus is God, then how could He be tempted with evil? This is a fair question and, to be honest, a bit difficult to answer because the Scriptures do not explicitly explain it. Therefore, we have to work from what we do know using reason.
If Jesus' human nature existed by itself, apart from the divine nature, it would have been a normal human nature and capable of sin. But, Jesus' human nature is not separate from His divine nature which is morally pure and incapable of sin. It would then seem that Jesus was able to be tempted in His human nature but not in His divine. In the one person of Christ, there dwells two natures: God and man (Col. 2:9). As God, Jesus could stand without the danger of sinning. As man, He could be tempted. Exactly how these two natures relate to each other in one person is not clarified in scripture. But, as you can see, it is possible that Jesus be divine and be tempted at the same time because He was both God and man. To say that Jesus had to have a sin nature in order to be tempted is incorrect. Rather, in order to be tempted, Jesus had to be human.
Jesus was under the Law
Another Christadelphian argument that Jesus had a sin nature is that since Jesus was under the Law, and that a person is only under the Law if he is capable of sin, therefore Jesus had to have a sin nature. As I've already demonstrated above, Adam did not have a sin nature and he was tempted. But more importantly here, Adam was under the law of God even though he had a sinless nature -- though he was capable of sinning. God gave a Law to Adam when He said, "...From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you shall surely die," (Gen. 2:16-17). The phrase "you shall not" should remind us of the Ten Commandments with the "you shall" and "you shall not's." Adam was under Law and because He broke that Law, he sinned. Rom. 3:20 says, "...through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." And, "sin is not imputed when there is no law," (Rom. 5:13).
The reason Jesus was under the Law was so that He could become a sacrifice for us and redeem those who are under the Law (Gal. 4:4). He had to be made like His bretheren in order to satisfy the Law requirements of being a sacrifice. He had to be a man to atone for men. He had to be God in order to offer a sufficiently valuable atoning work.
Sin entered the world through Adam
There is debate in the theological circles concerning whether or not the sinful nature is passed down through the father or not. The scripture is not specific about this issue, so I present this argument as food for thought because it could shed some light on whether or not Jesus had a fallen nature.
Even though Eve was the first person to sin, sin entered the world through Adam and not through Eve. Rom. 5:12 says, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world..." The theory is that Adam was the representative of mankind in the garden. When he fell, we fell because we were "in" him. This concept of representation one person representing others is found in Heb. 7:9-10.
And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, 10for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
Levi was a distant descendant of Abraham. Abraham was long dead when Levi was born. But the text says that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek. How is this possible? It seems the answer lies in the idea that one person represented his descendants. This would explain why Levi is said to have paid tithes to Melchizedek because his distant father Abraham did so and because Levi was "in" the loins of his distant father Abraham. Likewise, sin entered the world through Adam and not Eve because Adam was the representative head of mankind. If this is so, then Jesus would not have received a sin nature from His father Joseph since Joseph had no biological paternity in relation to Jesus. Therefore, his sin nature would not have been passed down to Jesus. But since he had a human mother, He had human nature. We can see He was both God and man because He is called both the son of God and the son of man. If it is true, then we can see that Jesus had a divine nature received from God and a human nature, but not a sinful one, from His mother Mary.
Whether or not the preceding concept is legitimate is still up for debate. But I offer it has yet another possible reason why Jesus did not have a sinful nature.
Jesus is God in flesh
The primary biblical reason that in Jesus does not have a sinful nature is because Jesus is both God and man in one person. Of course the Christadelphians do not accepted this since they deny the Trinity. Nevertheless, their denial of the deity of Christ does not negate its truth. The Bible says that Jesus is God in flesh.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God....14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth," (John 1:1-2, 14).
"but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior," (Titus 1:3).
For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form," (Col. 2:9).
But of the Son He says, “Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever..." (Heb. 1:8).
"looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus," (Titus 2:13).
_________________
1. All scripture quotes are from the NASB.
2. Christadelphians compare Col. 2:9 with Eph. 3:19 which has similar phraseology in it in an effort to deny that Col. 2:9 says Jesus is deity. For a more detailed look at this, see the paper "Col. 2:9 and Eph. 3:19."
http://www.carm.org/christadelphian/Jesus_nature.htm
Christadelphian theology is another clever impersonation of Christianity. It denies the devil's existence as a fallen angel, as well as fiery hell, the Trinity, that Jesus' sacrifice was substitutionary, and it teaches that Jesus had a sinful nature. It is definitely not Christian.
http://www.carm.org/christadelphian.htm
--------------------
Video Tracts
Christian Media
LiveTracts
Friend Me On Facebook
Evangelism TackleBox
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
Thank you Born Again for your welcome...
I agree that Adam and Eve and Lucifer all sinned because they had the freewill ability to do so. But the question is why would anyone want to sin? The answer is simple. Because we all want evil. Satan sinned because he wanted to be worshipped as God. Eve (and Adam) sinned because they wanted to be like God in knowing good and evil. And Jesus Christ himself wanted to sin [walk away from the cross) but he held himself in check to remain obedient to God the Father.
Just consider that if God the Father had granted Jesus's request in Gethsemane and had taken the cross away from him, there would have been no more YHWH.
Hope this explains where I'm coming from.
Jason
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
Dear brother Jasonlevene {I'm assuming you are a brother, I did not look at your profile}, greetings and welcome to Internet church. You write: quote:
Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Now here's my question, if what was created 'perfect' can result in a Satan because of pride jealousy and greed, then how far of a stretch is it for what was created 'very good' to sin for the very same reasons?
Keep an open mind.
What was created "perfect" can result in a Lucifer-Satan because in this case "perfect" meant "freedom to choose to sin and freedom to choose not to sin".
For the same reason we, of whom the LORD said, "very good" were thereafter decided to sin, just like our (fore)father Adam and (fore)mother Eve, and after some generations we were altogether born in sin.
Keep an open mind.
May the LORD God of Israel bless this CBBS, in Yahshua-Jesus's Name, I am BORN AGAIN by His
IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
brother wparr writes: quote:
If you are saying God has a sin nature - you are well deceived by the enemy - or of the enemy.
brother wparr, is that any way to greet anyone who is just arriving at our CBBS?
Just because someone who is seeking the LORD still has a misunderstanding about the LORD in his or her mind does not make them - the enemy.
brother wparr, there are people out there who are sincerely seeking the LORD and are asking questions about the LORD. If their opinion needs Biblical help, then help them Biblically, but do not say that they are possibly even "the enemy".
That's not the way to evangelize, brother wparr. Now, they may turn out to be "the enemy", but that's not the way to greet a new poster, amen?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
IP: Logged |
|
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
quote:
Jesus was like Adam and Eve were, before they sinned, but had the ability to sin and also had the ability to not sin.
Let's look at how Adam and Eve were before their sin. Genesis 3:5-6:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened and ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree wa good for food and that it was pleasant to the eyes and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof and did eat...
Now 1 John 2:16 says this:
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life is not of the Father but is of the world.
Are you seeing the connection? Before Eve sinned, she desired the tree of knowledge because in her sin nature desires, she wanted to be like God in knowing good and evil. So I agree with you...Jesus was like Adam and Eve before their sin...subject to the sin nature.
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
Created to have free will
NOT
Created with sin nature
I HAVE an open mind - to God's truth
NOT to the lies of the enemy
2 Corinthians 10:5
We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
Jesus was before all creation
Jesus was the creator, Yahweh Elohim
COULD NOT have sin nature - NOT debateable
If you are saying God has a sin nature - you are well deceived by the enemy - or of the enemy.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
Jesus was not born with a sin nature. He was born with the ability to sin and with the ability to not sin.
In this regard, Jesus was different that we are, for we are altogether born in sin.
Jesus was like Adam and Eve were, before they sinned, but had the ability to sin and also had the ability to not sin.
1 Corinthians 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
And Jesus had it even tougher than Adam and Eve because Adam and Eve operated in an environment BEFORE sins pervaded everything. Jesus did not sin despite the more hostile environment that He had to operate in.
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, I am BORN AGAIN by the
IP: Logged |
|
|
jasonlevene
Community Member
Member # 5007
|
posted
Ezekiel 28:15
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Now here's my question, if what was created 'perfect' can result in a Satan because of pride jealousy and greed, then how far of a stretch is it for what was created 'very good' to sin for the very same reasons?
Keep an open mind.
--------------------
The Gethsemane Formula: Revealing The True Jesus
http://www.jasonlevene.com
Posts: 18 | From: Bronx, NY | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
Genesis 1:31
God saw ALL that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
NO sin - NO sin nature at this time.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
Go peddle your lies someplace else
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
