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Author
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Topic: The LAW of Moses/ The LAW of God
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WhiteEagle
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Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
This is self explanatory, this is the born again believer, the new birth, this is all the old things passed away and all things become new
Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisra'el, and with the house of Yehudah….I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: Jerimiah 31:31-33
the Law is not done away with, the Law is written on the heart,
We are saved by Grace trouble is not enough so call Christians know the definition of the Word Grace
Grace is Yahweh's power coming into the heart of man/woman to change it from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh
Obedience to the Commandments of Yahweh confirm the born again experience
but if Christ is your Savior and Lord and the Holy Spirit is living inside of you, that should manifest itself in some way, shape, and form. You should want to do the will of your Heavenly Father. You should love Jesus' name. You should crave His Word. You should hate sin. You should not see salvation as something that gives you a license to sin. Here are just a few verses that tell you what true salvation is all about:
Again, if you have truly been adopted into God's family and the Holy Spirit is living inside of you, there should be some evidence of that in your life. It is not just a matter of meaningless words. My friend, think about those words, "I never knew you: Depart from me."
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-27).
No where in this post is LOVE mentioned. Obedience is mentioned. Changed life is mentioned and what the fruit of a changed life should be, but you leave out the MOST LIFE-Changing Factor of all. God's LOVE.
IN Malachi God states He doesn't want their sacrifices or prayers because they only do it out of an Obedience and not from their hearts. They do it without LOVE of God.
You write we should love "Jesus' name" and love His Word. I say It's much more than THAT !
WE can't change until we know God's Love personally. That's what changes our hearts and causes us to want to be obediant and gives us our faith. Faith and Obediance only come through us receiving God's Love and accepting it. We first must admit our sin and repent and accept by faith that Christ died for our sins personally, and then we can receive God's LOVE that changes our life.
John 3:16 "For God so LOVED the WORLD, that He gave His only begotten SON. That WHOSOEVER believeth in HIM, shall not perish, but have EVERLASTING LIFE."
Your post presents the gospel lacking the Key factor of changed life: LOVE. 1 Cor 13
Rev 2:4,5 Go back to your first LOVE.
Also we as humans CANNOT conjour up God's LOVE in our own being or works, or by vain words, or obedience out of duty. It ONLY comes into us through Salvation when we RECEIVE that seal of Redemption that Paul talks about in Ephesians 1:13-15.
Yes we will walk according to the Mosaic Law, it will be a natural outcome of our Salvation. It won't be by our own efforts in how we accomplish it.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
The Ten Commandments written by God Himself
Exodus 20
3 You shall have no other gods before Me.(1)
4 You shall not make yourself any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth,
5 So that you can bow yourself down to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them who hate Me;
6 And showing mercy to thousands of them who love Me, and keep My commandments. (2)
7 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. (3)
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt you labor and do all your work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD your God: in it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger that is within your gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (4)
12 Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God gives you. (5)
13 You shall not kill. (6)
14 You shall not commit adultery. (7)
15 You shall not steal. (8)
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. (9)
17 You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his *** , nor any thing that is your neighbor's. (10)
These are the Ten Commandments that we should keep? While, when we love the LORD God will all our heart and mind, that will take care of the "god" ones, and loving our neighbor as we ourselves would like to be treated would not make us do the other things.
But we should be able to break the two down into ten, I suppose.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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herald2
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posted
"Born-Again,"
Actually, when Jesus gave us "the two greatest commandments:" "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself," they were the summation of the Ten Commandments. If you fulfill these two, you will, also, fulfill the 10.
The Ten Commandments may be found in Exodus 20:3-17.
"YahsWay,"
I printed your nine points of the law and your other illustrations of the same. I found them quite helpful. Would you mind if I used them on other websites? (I am finding a lot of confusion about the law.)
Herald2
Posts: 9 | Registered: Jun 2005
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BORN AGAIN
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That was very good, sister herald2, I read the whole thing. To tell you the truth, I cannot even name the 10 commandments of God off the top of my head.
Off the top of my head, are the following part of the 10 commandments without looking it up?
1. “you shall not commit adultery”.
2. “you shall not kill”
3. “you shall not bear false witness” (is that the same as “lying”?)
4. “you shall have no other gods before Me”
5. “you shall not steal”
6. “you shall observe the Sabbath day to keep it holy”
7. “you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, mind, and soul”
8. “you shall love your neighbor as your self”
Let’s see, that’s only eight, I’m still missing two?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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herald2
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posted
I just want to say how refreshing this conversation is, because this message has encountered stiff resistance on other sites.
When the law exposes us, let His grace cover us! The circumcision of the heart is painful, but,"nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness."
"I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart."
"Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart."
"O how I love thy law! It is my meditation all the day."
"Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold." Hallelujah! What freedom there is when we walk in His paths!
Thank you all,so much,for refreshing my heart!
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yahsway
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posted
Amen TexasG. We obey the Law by our Faith in Yeshua! He is the Law to everyone that believes. And He said if you love me, keep my commandments!
Jesus quote:
"If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him? Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets".
We now have God the Fathers Laws written on our mind and in our heart.
Faith and Law(commandment of God) Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the Saints; here are those who Keep the commandments of God AND the Faith of Jesus.
12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, WHO KEEP the Commandments of God AND have the testimony of Jesus the Christ.
Romans 8:7 For the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is NOT SUBJECT TO THE LAW OF GOD,nor indeed Can Be.
8. SO then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.(because their minds are not subject or do not want to follow the Law of God)Gods laws are not written on their minds or in their hearts. If you are led by the Spirit, you will certainly want to follow and obey Gods moral laws.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
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Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
Rom 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, [was] not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
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Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
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Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
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Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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yahsway
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posted
Wonderful posts becauseHelives. When a Christian suddenly becomes defensive at the mere mention of Yahweh God's Law, there is a temptation to as, "just which law makes you uncomfortable?" Why should a blood-washed Christian be put off by the Law, since the Law only condemns lawbreakers?
I believe it is wrong to assume that such terms as "under the law" and "bondage" refer to a persons obedience to the good and Godly precepts of God's law.
I believe that Paul's statements referred to those who were in subjection to the system that perverted the Law into legalism.
David Stern writes in his book, Restoring the Jewishness of the gospel" quote:
"curse of the law" is not the curse of having to live within the framework of the Law, for the Law itself is good, but rather it is the Curse for DISOBEYING it"(Galations 3:10 and 13).
So, Paul points out that the curse falls on those individuals who try to obey the Law through efforts of Legalism. (Gal 3:11-12) This idea becomes clear when one realizes that legalism is already DISOBEDIANCE, since the Law itself REQUIRES genuine OBEDIANCE to come as an act of FAITH (Habakkuk 2:4). Shalom
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HE LIVES
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Thank you for the blessing.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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becauseHElives
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posted
This is self explanatory, this is the born again believer, the new birth, this is all the old things passed away and all things become new
Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisra'el, and with the house of Yehudah….I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people: Jerimiah 31:31-33
the Law is not done away with, the Law is written on the heart,
We are saved by Grace trouble is not enough so call Christians know the definition of the Word Grace
Grace is Yahweh's power coming into the heart of man/woman to change it from a heart of stone to a heart of flesh
Obedience to the Commandments of Yahweh confirm the born again experience
Paul said what then sould we sin so grace can abound? Paul said Yahweh forbid!
Many Jesus said would say Lord,Lord
but Jesus will reply depart from me you worker's of iniquity (you lawless ones) you who do not the Commandments of my Father
I knever knew you.
But their answer is amazing, Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
(These are Church Members, but not saved)
"I never knew you: Depart from me." Can you imagine standing before God and hearing those words? Can you imagine the fear and terror that would grip your heart when you realize that you were never saved after all?
I believe that, sadly, many people will die and will be told those words by God. These people are those who have a false sense of security as far as their salvation in concerned. These people mistakenly thought that they had a "get-out-of-hell-free card," and they were playing a dangerous game when it came to matters of their eternal destination.
What am I talking about? I am talking about those people who somewhere along the way got the notion in their head that to make it into heaven, all they had to do was say some meaningless words.
There is an ad campaign going on from the dairy industry. The campaign's slogan is "got milk?" I think that for many people that slogan pretty much epitomizes their so-called salvation experience. It is as though people believe that all they have to do is recite a few choice words and then presto-chango, now they have "got saved." And then the mentality of these people is, "Hey, I can do whatever I want -- all the fornicating I want, all the lying I want, all the cheating I want, break all of the commandments I want. Why? Because I said the magic words, and I now have 'got saved.'"
Well, being saved is not just having an emotional moment when the preacher gives the altar call. Being saved is not just lifting up your hand at your buddy's funeral when you are feeling your own immortality. Being saved is not something you "get," as though you can pick up a quart of "saved" from the corner market and then just go home and store it away on a shelf for emergency use only.
How can you say, "Jesus, come into my life and be my Savior and Lord," or whatever the words were, and then continue on willfully living a life of sinful rebellion? Friend, if you have zero interest in pleasing the Lord, following the Lord's commands, learning of the Lord, or turning from your sins, you are probably not saved!
Here is an example of how foolish the notion is of believing that some mere words makes all the difference: Let's say I decide to "get married." Maybe I like the idea of being Mrs. Jim Stevens. Or maybe everybody else is getting married, so I want to be a married woman, too. So Mr. Stevens and I go to a church and exchange vows. We promise to love, honor, and cherish, and end with a hearty "I do." The preacher announces, "You are now man and wife."
Well, after our little ceremony, I then drive back to my little one-bedroom apartment alone. I decide that I don't want to live with my new husband. As a matter of fact, I think I still want to date other men. So I phone up all of my old boyfriends and go out with them whenever I want. I fornicate and party just like back when I was single.
And, hey, I don't care what my husband has to say about anything. His opinions and directions are unimportant to me. I'm busy doing my own thing.
As a matter of fact, I don't even bother to call my husband, let alone go see him. And if he writes anything to me, it goes unread. His words are not important to me either.
Now, even though I said those wonderful words at the altar and ended it with a boisterous, "I do," am I really married? In the eyes of human law, the farce that my marriage is could easily be annulled because my so-called marriage is a joke. I said the words, but my actions show that they meant nothing.
So why would someone deceive himself or herself into believing that saying a few quick words at an altar call is any indication that they are saved? Yet many do just that. If you are truly saved, there should be some indication of that in your life. We cannot add to what Christ did on the cross, but if Christ is your Savior and Lord and the Holy Spirit is living inside of you, that should manifest itself in some way, shape, and form. You should want to do the will of your Heavenly Father. You should love Jesus' name. You should crave His Word. You should hate sin. You should not see salvation as something that gives you a license to sin. Here are just a few verses that tell you what true salvation is all about:
Matthew 7:21-23 not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Luke 13:5, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."
2 Chronicles 7:14, "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land."
1 John 2:4, "He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."
John 10:27, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me."
Again, if you have truly been adopted into God's family and the Holy Spirit is living inside of you, there should be some evidence of that in your life. It is not just a matter of meaningless words. My friend, think about those words, "I never knew you: Depart from me."
"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries" (Hebrews 10:26-27).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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AMH
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posted
Yes, Jesus did not do away with the law He fulfilled it. Something that we cannot do.
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HE LIVES
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quote:
Matthew 12:8
“For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.”
Jesus wasn't doing away with the Sabbath in this scripture He was rebuking the pharisees for adding their own laws to the Sabbath. He was telling them that it was ok to do good on the Sabbath. We shouldn't just read Matthew 12:8 without reading the other 7 that come before it if we are looking for the meaning.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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AMH
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yahsway,
It is really great that you are beginning to acknowledge the authority of some of the earlier founders of the Reformation. And that you are beginning to see the law for what it is. (Maybe we can be sister and brother in Christ.)
It looks like you have forgotten a quote while you were at it-
“And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitations.”
Acts 17:26
AMH
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Daniel_Eric
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Jesus is our Sabbath, in him we find our rest.
Heb 4:9-10
“There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.”
11:28-30)
"Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me; for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."
Matthew 12:8
“For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.”
Praise the Lord!
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yahsway
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posted
quotes from:
Martin Luther- "The first duty of the gospel preacher is to declare God's Law and show the nature of sin, because it will act as a schoolmaster and bring him to everlasting life which is in Jesus Christ"
John Wesley- " Before I preach love, mercy, and grace, I must preach sin, Law, and judgement."
Wesley later advised a friend by saying " Preach 90 percent Law and 10 percent grace."
Charles Spurgeon- "They will never accept grace until they tremble before a just and holy Law".
Charles Finney- "Evermore the Law must prepare the way for the gospel; to overlook this in instructing souls is almost certain to result in false hope, the introduction of a false standard of Christian experience, and to fill the Church with false converts."
John Wycliffe- " The highest service to which a man may attain on earth is to preach the Law of God."
D.L. Moody- "God, being a perfect God, had to give a perfect Law, and the Law was given not to SAVE men, but to measure them."
1. The law teaches believers how to serve, worship, and please God(psalms 19:7-9 and Acts 18:13-14)
2. The law instructs believers in how to treat their fellow man, how to develope healthy interpersonal relationships (Leviticus 19:18, Galations 5:14 and 6:2)
3. The law teaches believers how to be happy and prosperous by manifesting the power and authority of God's reign in their lives (Joshua 1:8, Psalms 1:1-3 and Luke 12:32)
4. The law is the measure of mans deeds toward both God and his fellow man, guiding the way in all matters contrary to sound doctrine (I Timothy 1:8-10, 2 Timothy 2:5, I Corinthians 6:1-12, 3:13, Romans 2:12 and Revelation 20:12-13)
5. The Law is our schoolmaster, showing us that we are guilty before God and leading us to Jesus/Yeshua, our Messianic justification (Galations 3:21-24, and Romans 3:19)
6. The Law gives us the knowledge of sin and reveals the depth of our sin (Romans 3:20, 4:15, 7:7-8 and Luke 20:47)
7. The Law reveals the good, holy, just and perfect nature of Yahweh God and serves as the UNIVERSAL STANDARD of His will for man (Romans 2:17-18, 7:12 and 2 Peter 1:4)
8.the Law is to be established or accomplished through FAITH; hence it is called the LAW OF FAITH (Romans 3:27 and 31)
9. The Law is written In our hearts by the indwelling Spirit, through whom we can delight in and SERVE it (Romans 7:6-25)
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yahsway
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AMH, So what Laws, If any, did God write on your mind and place in your heart?
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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yahsway
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Bless You brother Chuck. I like what you said about not seeking after man with all your heart but rather Yahweh God.
There is a joy in the journey of seeking Him with all your heart. May you be blessed richly in that journey my friend. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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AMH
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posted
herald2, wrote-
“The ceremonial law was temporal, the Ten Commandments were written by God, reveal His character (in contrast to ours), and are eternal. It is not possible, for any man or institution to over-rule and change God's law.”
Correct me if I am wrong, but the above statement does imply that God did not write the ceremonial law. So did Moses just dream up the ceremonial law?
I am pretty sure that God wrote the whole thing.
Any one who says that they keep the Ten Commandments better look at the one that speaks about fibbing. If you break one of them you break them all. So that anyone who has from their youth kept the Sabbath but has not kept the other nine is also guilty of breaking the Sabbath law.
Maybe what you mean to say is that you want to place a yoke on the necks of people that you and your friends cannot bare.
AMH
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HE LIVES
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quote:
Understand?
Yes, or at least I'm begining to understand more clearly. The Lord has been dealing with me on some matters, and I am trying to be open to what He wants of me. As a new believer many times we are exposed to man's tradition not knowing any better, but the Lord tells us in the word to be careful of mans tradition. It doesn't say in the word to seek man with all of your heart, but it does say seek the Lord with all of your heart and you will find Him!!!
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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yahsway
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HeLives, The scripture that refers to Paul and the disciples gathering on the first day of the week would have been reckoned by the Hebrew calander as Saturday night after sundown. That would make it the first day of the week.
The evening and morning are the first day. So at evening time on Saturday night would have been the First day of the week.
Notice in that passage it said that there were many lamps in the room. So it was after the Sabbath(Sabbath being from Sundown of Friday till sundown on Saturday)
It is traditional for Hebrews of that period to worship at the synagogues anytime between Fri night at sundown and Sat. at sundown. Then right after the Sabbath, they would gather for a fellowship meal. I believe this is what the passage refers to. I believe they kept the Sabbath day and gathered for a meal and Paul began to preach to them.
As far as laying aside money on the first day of the week is so that Paul does not have to gather money up on the Sabbath day. Notice that passage doesnt say He will come to collect it on Sunday,But he would certainly not collect it on Saturday, being the day of rest. So thats why he told them to have it ready on the First day of the week.
There is a misconception that those who worshiped on the Sabbath did not leave their homes and only rested. But scriptures are full of passages where Yeshua/Jesus went into the synagogues on Saturday to teach, and who was in those synagogues? The priests, scribes, Pharisees and others. It was a day of worship, teaching, singing psalms, ect... Just like the church does today on Sunday.
Paul himself even went into the synagogues on Sabbath to teach. Many gentiles went there to to hear the words of Paul.
The 7th day Sabbath instituted by God alone is still the Sabbath day. Man will never change that. Our God changes not. But I think it was somehow in Gods plan to use Constantine to bring in the pagans(gentile nations)to the understanding of Christ, and that he was the one who changed the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. Although many believeing Jews in Jesus were persecuted for their worshiping on Saturday by Constantine, somehow I believe it happened for a reason, that reason being to bring more heathens into the fold.
If you read the scriptures you will see where Paul still kept the feasts of the Lord, taught on the Saturday Sabbath, upheld the law of God, and taught salvation comes only through Messiah Yeshua. You see, it is US who are dead to the law, not that the law has died. We are New creatures in Yeshua, and as such we walk as He walked, or at least that is what Paul said we should do. The laws have not been done away with but are written on our minds and placed in our hearts. If the laws of God died, than everyman is free to do what is right in their own minds, and Gods laws would not be written on their minds and in their hearts. Mans hearts would still be a heart of stone instead of hearts of flesh for His word and laws to prick and penetrate into. Understand?
Obeidence is much better than sacrafice. Shalom
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HE LIVES
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I believe that the word of God is the word of God, but when it comes to what is said and not said I tend to listen to the words of Christ, see He knew all things and didn't mention it, so when I have doubt I turn to His words.
As for my salvation, it is in Christ alone. I wouldn't try to do deeds for my salvation, but only to please my Father in obedience because I know that if I'm obedient to my Fathers word I will be happier on this earth.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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TEXASGRANDMA
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talk to you later. I got to go to bed to get up for Sunday School in the morning.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Okay, I see our point. But, I would say you agree that the Bible is the inspired Word of God. Do you not think that if God had a problem with the apostles worshpping on Sunday, He would have had it in the New Testatment that what they did was wrong? We are saved by grace not by the law. If you read up on the SDA, you will not want to go to that Church.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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HE LIVES
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That's my point, Jesus knew what day that He would be raised up, but He didn't say anything about changing the sabbath, so was it man, or the Lord who ordained it?
Here's a parable if you will.
My Dad tells me to rake the yard every Monday, but then my brother tells me to rake it on tuesday, should I then start raking on tuesday, or keep raking on Mondays until my Father tells me different?
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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TEXASGRANDMA
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http://www.basicchristian.org/whysunday.html
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week (Sunday), when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
1st Corinthians 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection (financial giving) for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week (Sunday) let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
"Is Sunday now also the Sabbath day of the Church?
It is also important to note that Sunday is not a Sabbath Day and therefore the Church is not resting on Sunday when it gathers to Worship God but is Rejoicing in the Living, Loving, Jesus."
betty
http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/sda/adventi.htm
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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HE LIVES
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I don't think it has to be a Saturday for God to show up, and that's not what I'm saying. I think it's good to worship every day of the week, but aren't those days our option? I'm not against worship on Sunday as I believe that the more we worship the better, but what I'm saying is one day of the week is commanded and the others are not. See, I worship on Sunday right now, but I have a need to know the truth so that I can worship the Lord in truth. I don't think people are wrong to worship on Sunday, but I think that if the Lord commanded us to worship on the sabbath then we would be wrong not to. If I seek the Lord on this matter and He leads me to worship on the sabbath then I will, but I may still worship on Sunday as my option and not a commandment. Do you understand what I'm saying?
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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TEXASGRANDMA
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The truth is because of Jesus’ dying on the cross, we can worship every day. God hears our prayers every day of the week.
The Apostles worshipped on Sunday after the resurrection. At my Church almost every day there is a Bible study. When they pray over the study, God is there.
God says where two or three meet in Jesus’ name, God is there. It does not say it has to be on a Saturday for God to show up.
betty
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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HE LIVES
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quote:
Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
From the above post I could say that I wouldn't have to worship at all and that no man could judge me, but God would still judge me.
It's not mans judgement that I'm worried about, it's the Lords, and He said that heaven and earth will pass away before one jot of His Fathers word would.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Col 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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This is just a qustion for us to discuss as brothers, and sisters in Christ so that we might grow in the word. This is something that I have been thinking about a lot lately. So, here is one of my thoughts on the matter.
God knew all things in advance, and gave the prophets his word about the coming of His son. He told us that His son would be beaten for our sins, and that he would be sacrificed for our sins. He told us all things that would happen before they happened, right? Then why didn't He tell us that the Sabbath would be changed from Saturday to Sunday? I know that we say that we worship on Sunday because that was the day that the Lord was resurrected on, but with God knowing all things He would have known the day that the Lord would be resurrected on, but He never said that this day would be the new Sabbath. Is Sunday worship ordained by God, or Man? I don't think that there is anything wrong with Sunday worship as a matter of fact I think the more we worship the better, but wasn't the Sabbath commanded, and the other days your option? Tell me what you think.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Most Christians worship on Sunday because Jesus rose again on Sunday. Contrary to the belief of the SDA, worshipping on Sunday is NOT the mark of the beast.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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AMH
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If no one has the right to change the fourth commandment then how is it that most Christians observe Sunday worship instead of Saturday?
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herald2
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Ceremonial Law:
1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Ephesians 2:15.
2. Was spoken by Moses. Leviticus 1:1-3.
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chronicles 35:12.
4. Was placed in the side of the ark. Deuteronomy 31:24-26.
5. Was nailed to the cross. Colossians 2:14.
6. Was abolished by Christ. Ephesians 2:15.
10 Commandments:
1. Is called the "royal law." James 2:8.
2. Was spoken by God. Deuteronomy 4:12,13.
3. Was written with the finger of God. Exodus 31:18.
4. Was placed inside the ark. Exodus 40:20; Hebrews 9:4.
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Psalms 111:7,8.
6. Was not destroyed by christ. Matthew 5:17,18.
The ceremonial law was temporal, the Ten Commandments were written by God, reveal His character (in contrast to ours), and are eternal. It is not possible, for any man or institution to over-rule and change God's law.
In Genesis we read, "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day, God ended his work, which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it..." Genesis 2:1-3a.
The fourth commandment reads, "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God...For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in the is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11.
We have been told, that, the New Testament christians changed the Sabbath to Sunday, the first day of the week, in honor of our Lord's resurrection. That is impossible - what man or institution has the authority to over-rule and change God's "royal law"? No one.
The sabbaths of the ceremonial law are optional, the fourth commandment is not.
Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15. "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10.
Some have been confused by Jesus' commandments - "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mmind." (See, also, Deuteronomy 6:5; 30:6,10.) If we keep the first four of the Ten Commandments, we will obey his command. "This is the first and great commandment." He continued, "And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." If we keep the last six of the Ten Commandments, we will obey this command. "On these two commandments, hang all the law and the prophets." Matthew 22:37-40.
In the book of Revelation, we hear the angel, "saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of water." Revelation 14:7. The wording here is very similar to that of the fourth commandment, which honors our Creator.
Some might say, "It's just a day," but, in The Garden, it was just a tree...and look what happened! Beginning at Creation, all the way through the final book of Revelation, the issue has, always, been about worship and obedience.
John said, "If any man saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4. These are strong words, but, God's Word, nonetheless. The Ten Commandments are the standard by which our lives are measured. Under the New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34), once again the finger of God writes His law upon the fleshly tablets of our hearts, enabling us by His Holy Spirit, to love, worship and obey Him.
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