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Author Topic: The last days, the new Millenium and the sons of God
Betty Louise
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I agree unless Jesus comes soon we will suffer, but no where in the Bible does God tell us to prepare for the tribulation. We do not need to fear the tribulation. We instead look forward to the blessed
hope.
Betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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becauseHElives
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Betty , I do not know if Cliff is right or not....but I do know America is going to be destroyed very soon....

I also believe in a pre-rapture of the Bride of Christ before the"great tribulation and wrath of Yahweh" but that does not exclude American Christian's from suffering the suffering many other Christians have suffered since the birth of the Church.....`

Yahweh prepare us for the days ahead should be our prayer....

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Betty Louise
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Quote Our fellowship as Christians is not based upon the timing of the rapture, but upon the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Some have accused those who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture as "escapists," trying to avoid all trouble or persecution. On the contrary, the Church always has been and always will be persecuted as long as we are in the world, but this is not the same as the wrath of God poured out during the Tribulation.

We believe the rapture occurs before the Tribulation because scriptures overwhelmingly support a pre-tribulation rapture, as opposed to the amillennial, post-millennial, and post-tribulation theories.

We can't be dogmatic over something that hasn't occurred yet. Whenever He comes is His will, which should be sufficient for whatever position you hold. In the meantime, God has given us scriptures to examine. The following is a list of scriptural proofs that indicate the rapture will be Pre-Tribulation.

16 Proofs for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture


Proof #1: Revelation 19:11-21 doesn't mention a resurrection.

The rapture is a resurrection of those "in Christ" (1 Thess. 4:13-18). Isn't it a little bit odd that Rev. 19:11-21, which is the clearest picture of the second coming of Christ, does not mention a resurrection? The rapture will be the biggest event since the resurrection of Jesus where hundreds of millions of Christians will be resurrected and translated, yet there isn't any mention here. Don't you think it deserves at least one verse? The rapture isn't mentioned because it doesn't happen at the second coming.

Proof #2: Zechariah 14:1-15 doesn't mention a resurrection.

This is an Old Testament picture of Jesus returning to earth at the second coming. Again, no mention of a resurrection.

Proof #3: Two different pictures are painted.

In the Old Testament, two different pictures are painted of the Messiah—one suffering (Isa. 53:2-10, Ps. 22:6-8, 11-18) and one reigning as King (Ps. 2:6-12, Zech. 14:9,16). As we look back on these scriptures, we see they predicted two separate comings of the Messiah—the 1st coming as a suffering Messiah and the 2nd coming (still future) as a reigning King.

In the New Testament, we have another picture added. Again, we have two pictures painted which don’t look the same. These two different descriptions of Jesus’ coming point to two separate events we call "the rapture" and "the second coming."

Proof #4: The Known Day and the Unknown Day

Concerning the return of Jesus, the Bible presents a day we can't know and a day we can know. Matthew 25:13 says Jesus will return at an unknown time, while Revelation 12:6 says the Jews will have to wait 1,260 days for the Lord to return. The 1,260 days begins when the Antichrist stands in the Temple and declares himself to be God (Matt. 24:15-21, 2 Thess. 2:4) This event will take place at the mid-point of the seven year Tribulation (Dan 9:27). The Antichrist has authority to rule for 42 months, which is 1,260 days (Rev. 13:4) and will be destroyed by Jesus at His second coming (Rev. 19:20, 2 Thess. 2:8). The known and unknown days must happen at different times, meaning they are two separate events.

Proof #5: A door open in heaven (Revelation 4:1)

The door in heaven is opened to let John into heaven. We believe John's call into heaven is prophetic of the church being caught up at the rapture (see proof #6). In Revelation 19:11, heaven is opened again, this time to let the armies which are already in heaven out. This is the Church, which has been raptured at a previous time, following Jesus out of heaven at the second coming.

Proof #6: "Come up here." (Revelation 4:1)

A voice called for the apostle John to "Come up here," and immediately he was in heaven. This could be a prophetic reference to the rapture of the Church. The words "Come up here" are spoken to the two witnesses who are killed in the middle of the Tribulation, who are resurrected and ascend into heaven (Rev. 11:12). Therefore, the phrase "Come up here" could mean the church is raptured in Rev. 4:1. The word "church" is mentioned 22 times in Rev. 1-3, but is not mentioned again until Rev. 22:17.

Proof #7: The 24 elders have their crowns.

After John is called up into heaven, he sees the 24 elders with their crowns (Rev. 4:4-10). We know that Christians will receive their rewards (crowns) at the rapture (2 Tim. 4:8, 1 Pet. 5:4). We will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous (Luke 14:14). The elders couldn't receive their crowns unless the resurrection (rapture) has taken place.

Proof #8 Holy ones are already with Jesus in heaven (Zech. 14:5, Rev. 19:14)

The armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, follow Jesus out of heaven at His second coming (Rev. 19:14, Zech. 14:5, Col. 3:4). These are not angels because Rev. 19:8 tells us the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints. In order to come out of heaven we first have to go in, indicating a previous rapture.

Proof #9: Kept from the hour of testing (Rev. 3:10)

Revelation 3:10 says we will be kept out of the hour of testing which will come upon the whole earth (the Tribulation). Some have wrongly believed "keep" means to keep through, or protect through the Tribulation. Suppose you approach a high voltage area with a sign that says, "Keep Out." Does that mean you can enter and be protected? No, it means you are forbidden from entering the area. But this verse also says He will keep us from the hour of testing. It is not just the testing, but the time period. If a student is excused from a test, he still may have to sit in the class while others take the test. But if he is excused from the hour of testing, he can go home. The Church will be called home before the hour of testing.

Proof #10: Angels don't resurrect people when they gather them for judgment.

When the angels are sent forth to gather the elect at the second coming (Matt. 24:29-31), some have wrongly interpreted this as the rapture. There is one huge problem with this interpretation. If we are resurrected at this time, why would we need angels to gather us? In the resurrection, we will be like the angels (Matt. 22:30), able to travel in the air at will. Obviously, these people who are gathered are not resurrected, therefore it can't be the rapture. No one would claim the wicked are raptured at this time, yet Matthew 13:39-41, 49 says the angels will not only gather the elect, but also the wicked. This gathering is not a resurrection.

Proof #11: Both wicked and righteous both can't be taken first.

First Thessalonians 4:13-17 says the righteous are taken and the wicked are left behind. Matthew 13:30, 49 says the wicked are taken first and righteous are left behind. This points to two separate events, the rapture and the second coming.

Proof #12: Jesus returns from the wedding.

When Jesus returns to earth at the second coming, He will return from a wedding (Luke 12:36). At the rapture, Jesus is married to His bride, the Church. After the wedding, He will return to earth.

Proof #13: Jesus will receive us to Himself, not us to receive Him (John 14:2-3).

Jesus said He would prepare a place for the Church in heaven, then He would come again to receive us to Himself. Why would Jesus prepare a place for us in heaven and then not take us there? At the rapture, He will come to receive us to Himself, "that where I am (heaven), there you may be also." If the rapture occurred at the same time as the second coming, we would go up to the clouds and then immediately come back to earth. That would contradict John 14:2-3.

Proof #14: The one who restrains is taken out of the way.

In 2 Thess. 2:6-7, Paul says "the one who restrains will be taken out of the way" before the Antichrist can be revealed. We believe this refers to the rapture because the Church is clearly the biggest obstacle to the Antichrist becoming a world ruler.

Proof #15: The separation of the sheep and goats (Matt. 25:31-46)

If the rapture occurred at the second coming, why would the sheep and the goats need to be separated immediately after the second coming? A rapture at the second coming would have already separated the sheep and the goats. With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture will need to be separated after the second coming.

Proof #16: Who will populate the Millennium?

If the rapture occurs at the second coming and the wicked are cast into hell at that time, who will be left to populate the millennium? Only people in their natural (non-resurrected) bodies will be able to have children (Matt. 22:30). With a Pre-Tribulation rapture, the people saved after the rapture who are alive at the second coming will populate the earth during the Millennium (See "Who will populate the millennium?" Bible Study).

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God bless,
Kindgo

Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.

Thank you Kindgo

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Betty Louise
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You may plan to be here during the trib, but not me. I am looking for the rapture. Have a blessed day.
Betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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Cliff Hilbert
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Saturday, April 11, 2009
The Last Days, the New Millennium and the sons of God
By Clifford T. Hilbert
April 9, 2009


Are these the last days? Well, yes and no. These are the last days of this age, whatever God means by “this age”. Man has his ideas of what that means, but mans’ ideas are not God’s idea. “For My thoughts are not your thoughts, and My ways are not your ways.” What I do know is that we are in the last few years before Jesus comes back to establish His kingdom here on earth for 1000 years. I know that God’s judgment is about to be poured out upon our nation and that the USA will no longer be a factor in this world.

What will happen to Israel when we are no longer there to support and defend it? All we need to do is look in Revelation and see what the rest of the nations will do to Israel then – they will destroy it. Shortly thereafter the end comes. The bible says that the world will be on the verge of destroying itself when Jesus returns. That event is coming in my lifetime - I am now 63 years old and I expect to be here when Jesus returns.

I expect to be here during the Tribulation period. There will be no rapture as the churches have been teaching for years. The sheep have been lied to and misled. When the sheep find out that they have been deceived and that they are suddenly going through the Great Tribulation, the faith of many will be cast aside – part of the great Apostasy of the Faith. Only he that endures to the end will be saved.

What will it be like when Jesus appears in the clouds? It will be instantly evident to all what their sins have been. Those who have had abortions will realize that they have murdered their own children. Homosexuals and lesbians will instantly see their sins as the abominations they are. They will see how filthy they are. The proud and arrogant will immediately he humbled. The thieves will be ashamed. The rapists will hate themselves. The child molesters will want to die. Politicians will be humiliated. Televangelists will try to hide from God. Most pastors will see themselves as the frauds they are. Women will be ashamed of exposing so much of their flesh in public. Those who “confessed Jesus as their Savior” when they were ten years old but whose hearts are still lukewarm or cold, who are self-centered, proud and arrogant, will find out that they are not “saved” as they thought they were. Sin will be exposed for what it is. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus will then rule with a “rod of iron” – the severest, most rigorous rule. Slavery will be considered bliss compared to what the rebellious, disobedient, proud and arrogant will have to go through.

How will Jesus establish His kingdom here on earth?

The answer is in Matt 12:29 – “Or how can one enter into the house of the strong man, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

The Earth is Satan’s house, he is the prince of this world. When Jesus returns, Satan will be bound for 1000 years. Once the strong man is bound, then his house will be plundered. Once the evil one is tied up and cast into the pit, then, little by little, all his strongholds will be plundered – all sickness, all disease, all pollution, all depravity, all decadence, all perversion, all pride, all abortions, all welfare, all “entitlements” etc. He that does not work will not eat. Obesity will not be allowed in the next age. There will be no women with 15 illegitimate children on government welfare. “He that dies before the age of 100 will be considered accursed.” Hurricanes, tornadoes, tsunamis will be done away with. No longer will the airwaves be filled with the kind of filth that is now on TV. No longer will movie houses be filled with the vulgar trash that now passes for entertainment. If there are movies allowed in those days, they will be clean, wholesome, free of vulgarity, sex, violence and perversion. If television is allowed it will return to the clean goodness of the old Walt Disney-style programs, Andy Williams, Perry Como, Dinah Shore, etc. No longer will people worship their multi-million dollar sports idols on Sunday, or on any other day, for that matter, because there will be no more sports idols. No longer will Satan’s servants like Oprah Winfrey Jerry Springer, Rosie O’Donnell, Whoopie Goldberg, etc be allowed to air their wicked and perverted filth. There will never again be televangelists as there are today – fleecing the flock, performing “miracles” to glorify themselves, lying to, and deceiving the sheep, teaching the doctrine of man. There will be no more Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. There will definitely never again be a Halloween. Christmas will be 100% different than it is today. There will be no worshipping “Baby Jesus”, because Jesus is not a baby, but a grown man, an adult.

Through whom will Jesus accomplish all this? Romans 8:19 – “The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed.” For years God has been preparing some for the responsibilities of plundering the evil one’s house and restoring and rehabilitating the hearts of man and this earth. He has chosen them and prepared them to rule and reign with Christ Jesus during the 1000 period.

Heb 12:6 – For those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son He receives”. The sons of god have not just been disciplined like the children of God, they have been scourged. They have lash marks all over their bodies, even though they have done nothing to cause these beatings. God has wounded them in the most terrible ways – Job 5:18 - For it is God who wounds and God who heals. They have learned obedience by that which they have suffered, just like Jesus. They have been beaten every day by their God for years and years. They know suffering like none others do. They know bitter disappointment day after day after day. They know what rejection is like as a way of life. They have been hated, rejected, mistreated, abused, criticized, scorned, ridiculed and treated with contempt by the world and the so-called “Body of Christ”. They know what failure is - no matter how hard they worked to accomplish something, they saw God tear it all down before their very eyes. They know what it’s like to get knocked down and get up, only to get knocked down again, then get up, then knocked down again, then get up, endlessly. They know the hard side of God. They know how the prophets of old felt.
They understand what Jeremiah felt like in Lamentations 3 - “I am the man who has seen affliction by the rod of his wrath. 2 He has driven me away and made me walk in darkness rather than light; 3 indeed, he has turned his hand against me again and again, all day long. 4 He has made my skin and my flesh grow old and has broken my bones. 5 He has besieged me and surrounded me with bitterness and hardship. 6 He has made me dwell in darkness like those long dead. 7 He has walled me in so I cannot escape; he has weighed me down with chains. 8 Even when I call out or cry for help, he shuts out my prayer. 9 He has barred my way with blocks of stone; he has made my paths crooked. 10 Like a bear lying in wait, like a lion in hiding, 11 he dragged me from the path and mangled me and left me without help. 12 He drew his bow and made me the target for his arrows. 13 He pierced my heart with arrows from his quiver. 14 I became the laughingstock of all my people; they mock me in song all day long. 15 He has filled me with bitter herbs and sated me with gall. 16 He has broken my teeth with gravel; he has trampled me in the dust. 17 I have been deprived of peace; I have forgotten what prosperity is. 18 So I say, "My splendor is gone and all that I had hoped from the LORD." 19 I remember my affliction and my wandering, the bitterness and the gall. 20 I well remember them, and my soul is downcast within me.” – Jeremiah was referring to what his Father God had done to him, and Jeremiah was speaking the truth. It is almost impossible for spiritual children to comprehend this.

The ones called to be “the sons of God” understand a part of God that spiritual children will never be able to comprehend. They know that the saying “God is a good God, He doesn’t want you to suffer”, is a fairytale made up by and for children. Remember what God’s first words about Paul were? – “I will show him how much he must suffer for the kingdom of heaven.” They very intimately know Paul’s testimony that he was hungry and thirsty, homeless, in rags, poorly treated, beaten and in chains. Spiritual children cannot understand these things. They followed 2 Tim 2:3-4 – “3Suffer hardship with me, as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. 4No soldier in active service entangles himself in the affairs of everyday life, so that he may please the one who enlisted him as a soldier” - even though they themselves didn’t fully understand it and the “Christians” scorned them because of it. No one understands nor judges these men – “A spiritual man understands (judges) all things, but is understood (judged) by no one.”

These men, however, are not spiritual giants. They are not great men of God, as the world thinks of great men. They are human beings with all the feelings, frailties, fears and failures of humans. Many of them see God like a football coach who pushes and pushes and pushes his players well beyond what they think are their limits, then he pushes them some more. When they think they are ready to die, he pushes them some more. He never lets up, there is no respite. He never gives them a “well done”. He is never satisfied. He stretches them until they are ready to break, then he lets them sit there for a while, never easing the tension. Then he stretches them again until they are ready to break, then he lets them sit awhile, still never easing the tension. He does this endlessly. The players curse their coach, they hate him, they despise him and wish he were dead. They see nothing but pain, pain and more pain in their futures. No matter how good they get, it is never enough to please the coach. Every hope is met with bitter, bitter disappointment. Every relationship causes nothing but pain and disappointment.

The apostle Paul understood this as well because the burdens became so great he despaired of life, he wanted to die, he wanted to kill himself. 2 Cor 1:8 - 8We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life”. But they do have hope that there is a purpose in all of this, that they will one day be blessed with peace and love. They hope that God will not be so cruel forever. They hope that one day he will stabilize their lives, vindicate and restore them.

These are the ones to be called ”the sons of God. ”They are not looking for disciples, they are not looking for glory, they are not looking for honor, they are not looking to accomplish great things for God, they are not looking for man’s approval. They are doing the only thing that God allows them to do – obey Him. They know what Paul meant when he stated that he was a bondslave of Christ Jesus. They understand that they have no free will of their own anymore, that they are truly slaves. God took their free will from them many years ago. They understand that there is only one choice, to obey God regardless of the costs. Children don’t know nor understand these things, only the ones God has raised into sonship. He does not give the riches and inheritance of His kingdom to children, but only to those whom He has raised into sonship - those whom He has matured through great and horrible suffering. Those are the ones who will be appointed to handle the great responsibilities He has for them in the future.

They are the ones who will rule and reign with Christ during His 1000 year reign on earth. They are the ones He will anoint with power like the first century church saw – the type of power that we have yearned to see for 2000 years, but have only seen small glimpses of it. They are the ones who will do even greater things than Jesus did. I don’t know how we could do anything greater than casting out demons, healing the sick and raising the dead, but we will.

They have seen the charlatans in the “Body of Christ”. . They have heard all the “faith” foolishness for years, They have tried all the “If you’ll just ________ (fill in the blanks) then God will bless you” doctrines that have been spewed about for years, and found out that they are man’s doctrines, not God’s. They have heard all the “If you just have enough faith, then God will______” nonsense that has been preached for years, and know what a bunch of foolishness that it truly is. They understand that we don’t have any understanding of what faith really is, yet. But during the 1000 year reign, we will know what God means by the term “faith”, and it will be nothing like what’s is being taught today. They know that what is thought of as “faith” today is nothing but the foolishness of man.

During the Millennium they will exercise true faith and see what the power of the Lord actually is. They will cast out demons, sickness and disease, heal the sick, raise the dead, say to mountains “be moved”, and they will move. They will have insight into peoples’ hearts like we would never have believed possible. Some of them will have the authority, as Jeremiah did, to be “over the nations and over the kingdoms, to pluck up and to tear down, to overthrow and destroy, to build and to plant”. They will have spiritual insight, authority and knowledge like we can’t even begin to fathom. They will have dominion over all natural and spiritual forces.

They will set up the churches in God’s order, not mans’. “I have set them first as apostles, second prophets, then teachers, pastors and evangelists.” The churches will be built “upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets” – they will not be built upon pastors as they are today. Pastors will not be the figureheads, kings and little gods that many think they are today. The churches will be set up as God intended them to be set up, and will operate the way He wants them to operate. Today they are run like man thinks they should be run. During the coming times they function according to God’s plan. There will be no denominational divisions any longer. There will no longer be a Catholic Church, a Baptist church, a Methodist Church, an Assembly of God Church, a Pentecostal Church, an Episcopalian Church, a Presbyterian Church or any other denomination. There will only be one church – God’s, man’s ideas of what churches should be like will be done away with. His church shall be called “A House of Prayer”.

The Millennial period will be a time when God gives men the knowledge of how to use the forces that He has created so that we will be able to manufacture without pollution, create automobiles that use the inexhaustible electromagnetic forces and solar power that surround us, instead of gas and oil. We will learn how to harness these magnetic forces and solar power to run our homes and offices, our manufacturing plants, our food processing operations. We will learn how to clean up the pollution in our environment and keep our planet and atmosphere clean. We will learn how to recycle everything so that nothing goes to waste. Researchers will find drugs that will cure all diseases. They will find cures for most of our physical ailments. Airplanes will no longer exist in the form they do today, our transportation will be radically different. God will show us how to raise food without all the chemicals and pesticides we use today. Rain will come in its season. The world will be the same, yet very, very different.

Those whose hearts were pierced by Christ’s coming will be forced into slave labor and tasked with things such as cleaning up the mess that the wars had left – the bodies, the destroyed buildings and homes, the environment, etc. They will physically clean up the mess they made of this world. They will be dealt with harshly and severely. There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. The nations will learn that they must obey God in order to get His blessings. Disobedience will quickly result in failed crops, hunger, turmoil, violence and total lack of peace. They will learn obedience the hard way – by a rod of iron, but they will learn. The leaders of those nations who don’t obey will be “plucked up and torn down, overthrown and destroyed, as will the nations which rebel against the Lord.


But we will know that after 1000 years Satan will be set free for a time and will deceive the nations once more and will destroy much of what has been perfected during the time he was bound. Many of the people will once again be deceived and turn against God. Then the end will come.

hilbertcliff@yahoo.com

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www.watchman2009.blogspot.com

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