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Author
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Topic: The Jesus Factor
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Tyme
Advanced Member
Member # 3017
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posted
Yes, One could say, those that are anti-American, their musing are irrelevant, and I would have to agree with you on that point.
Like the people that have no respect for our constitution, I think they should removed from this country as they only seek to damage the greatness this country offers.
I have to agree with you on that point. I have always hated Un-American Preaching, like, removal of from of expression, and freedom of speech, and the right to say, and believe what I want to say and believe.
Or people that wanted to make this Country a Church Run place to seek to enforce their religious beliefs on the free men and woman of this land.
As I said above, I have never cared what religious belief my president was before, and I am not about to start now.
If I vote for a person in office, it shall be because of their ability, their leadership, and their moral judgment. Like for example: ‘Do they charge headlong into War with a country, based on faulty information, for some unexplained reason?
Then Lie to the people of this land, as to why, or do they seek to admit they have sinned? Do they accept they have done wrong? Do they know and understand they are faulted?
If I was voting for the next pope, yes, their religious faith would be an issue.
Not for a Political Leader for this Country.
We have no official religion, and I truly hate the un-American preaching that we need to ‘Start’ one, the very idea that it is mentioned is near to treason against the very founding ideals of this country.
Tyme.
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I dream of a world.......
Posts: 527 | From: United States | Registered: Mar 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
It is a great blessing to have a Christian in the White House, and as our President. It is a great blessing to bring dignity back to the Oval Office, to replace iniquity.
Regardless of the irrelevant musings of the anti-American radical left, having a Christian as President, to replace Clinton/Gore has made a tremendous difference in the lives of many Christians over-seas:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I recently attended the National Pastors Convention in San Diego with several thousand pastors from many different denominations. During one of the general sessions, the Master of Ceremonies introduced a pastor from Uzbekistan. He had traveled the farthest to attend the convention. I don't remember his name, and even if I did, I know I couldn't pronounce it. However, I do know this: I will never forget this man.
Right away, I liked him. He was humble, sincere, and gracious. He apologized for his broken English, though I thought he spoke very well. As the MC interviewed him, he began to share about his ministry in his country that borders Afghanistan. He talked about the church he pastors of a few hundred people. He also shared how it is illegal in his country to be a Christian. You see, his church is an "underground" church. Amazingly, his city also has 3 "underground" Christian schools. He talked about how the Christians have been arrested and even killed in his country.
Then, as the interview was about to end, he began to speak very urgently and passionately. He said something to this effect: "I would like all of you to know that my church and the Christians in my country are praying that President Bush will be reelected."
I was stunned. I knew that this gathering had to include many pastors from all over the political spectrum and I was certain this would not go over well. Immediately, there were murmurings and rumblings throughout the audience and the MC seemed a little uncertain about what to do next.
However, this pastor would not be denied. Grasping the microphone firmly in his hand, he continued, "The officials in my country are afraid of President Bush, so they don't persecute Christians as much. Under Clinton it was very bad for us. Many of us were arrested, put in jail, and some were killed. With Clinton, it was very bad. But under President Bush, it has been so much better, so we are praying for him ." [boldness added]
The murmuring ended. It was suddenly very quiet. The MC paused. Then he just asked us to stand and pray for this man and we did so with great passion.
Choking back tears, I was immediately struck with this realization in my heart: this coming election was not just about me or my church or my country. This coming election would affect the entire world. And while there are many Christians and churches in this country that may not support our current President, there is a group of Christians halfway around the world who are desperately praying for his reelection.
All of the sudden, the election became something very different for me. It is not just about the economy, gay marriage, or weapons of mass destruction. It's about the persecuted church around the world. As believers, what issues should be more important to us? This transcends politics. This is about the Kingdom of God! For which Christ suffered and died, and for those believers in other countries who are suffering and dying as well.
I was also convicted in my heart about praying for our President. And I wonder, which church is praying more fervently for him: the persecuted church in Uzbekistan or the prosperous church in America? It makes you think.
As the Apostle Paul said in Hebrews 13:3, "Remember those in prison as if you were their fellow prisoners, and those who are mistreated as if you yourselves were suffering."
Remember, this election is not just about us. It's about them.
Rev. James Lair
Resurrection Lutheran Church
Senior Pastor
Church of the Living Christ
Ojai, CA
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Tyme
Advanced Member
Member # 3017
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posted
quote:
It is obvious from this statement that you have never lived (A bunch of countries listed)
Irrelevant.
quote:
As a Christian living in any of these countries you would surely care what religion your president was.
Once Again, Irrelevant.
I only care, about this little part of our Constitution, (The Country I DO live in)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Last time I checked, those other countries, did not have “Freedom of Religion” they had Government run Religions.
Which makes the entirety of your argument irrelevant, if the government dictates the religion, then the “Leader” must be that religion., choice is not an option
I am very upset about what they do, and how they impose their views on the people of their country, removing their right to make choices, pertaining to their own life, and their own body.
But that in no way, affects, my view on the religion of the President of the country I live in.
Tyme.
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I dream of a world.......
Posts: 527 | From: United States | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
quote:
I never cared what religion the President was, and I am not about to start now.
It is obvious from this statement that you have never lived in Afghanistan Cyprus Maldives Sri Lanka , Algeria, Egypt, Muritania Sudan
Azerbaijan Equatorial Guinea Morocco Syria
Bangladesh Ethiopia Myanmar (Burma) Tajikistan Bhutan India Nepal Tibet (China)
Brunei Indonesia Nigeria Tunisia
Chechnya Iran North Korea Turkey
Chiapas Iraq Oman Turkmenistan
China Pakistan Colombia Laos Qatar Uzbekistan Comoro Islands Libya Saudi Arabia Vietnam Cuba Malaysia Somalia Yemen or Eritirea.
As a Christian living in any of these countries you would surely care what religion your president was.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Tyme
Advanced Member
Member # 3017
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posted
quote:
Cizik told the PBS show, "I sleep better at night knowing he is a man who isn't afraid to say he prays, just like George Washington and many other presidents,"
I found this hilarious.
The rest of this, we just puffery.
I never cared what religion the President was, and I am not about to start now.
Tyme.
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I dream of a world.......
Posts: 527 | From: United States | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
PBS special, 'The Jesus Factor,' examines Bush's faith
Apr 30, 2004
By Art Toalston
A leader’s faith
President Bush’s faith was scrutinized by PBS’ ‘Frontline’ series in an April 29 installment titled ‘The Jesus Factor.’ Bush, shown here during February’s National Prayer Breakfast, found faith in the 1980s in Midland, Texas. Photo courtesy of the White House
NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--President Bush's faith -- scrutinized for an hour on PBS April 29 -- is genuine and deep, several key evangelicals said in interviews for the public network's "Frontline" series, in an installment titled "The Jesus Factor."
"There's no question that the president's faith is real, that it's authentic, that it's genuine," Doug Wead, an evangelical adviser to Bush's father in the 1988 presidential campaign, said in an interview for the program archived on the PBS website.
Wead continued: "... and there's no question that it's calculated. I know that sounds like a contradiction. But that will always be the case for a public figure, regardless of their faith, whether they're Islamic, or Jewish or Christian. ... Gandhi once said, 'He who says that religion and politics don't mix understands neither one.'"
Two other evangelical leaders were featured on the program: Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, and Richard Cizik, vice president for governmental affairs with the National Association of Evangelicals.
Land, comparing former President Reagan's opposition to abortion with Bush's, said Reagan "was pro-life by gut instinct. It just horrified him. The whole process horrified him. He just couldn't conceive of people arguing that people ought to be able to routinely kill unborn babies. But it was more of a traditional value, American value, Western civilization kind of gut instinct with him. With George W. Bush, it is a settled faith conviction, and I'll take settled faith convictions over gut instincts anytime."
In the war on terrorism and U.S. military deployment to topple Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein, Cizik told the PBS show, "I sleep better at night knowing he is a man who isn't afraid to say he prays, just like George Washington and many other presidents," according to the interview transcript. "Yes, it's a comfort. I think he is a man who has a proper humility, who doesn't let his faith or his religious beliefs improperly influence his role as commander in chief. But he's got a healthy balance, and I sleep better knowing it. Sure. No doubt about it."
Wead, Land and Cizik's comments were interspersed with those from two religious critics of the Bush administration, C. Welton Gaddy, head of The Interfaith Alliance, and Jim Wallis, founder and editor of Sojourners magazine, along with several analysts and journalists.
The documentary also included video clips of Bush reflective of his faith.
Among the media assessments of the PBS Frontline documentary:
A San Diego Union-Tribune writer described it as "an evenhanded, even cautious, examination" of Bush's faith, while a New York Daily News writer credited the effort as "impressively open-minded and objective."
A Seattle Times writer noted that interviews with "the president's friends, foes and observers" leave viewers with an ability to "form their own conclusions."
A New York Times writer likened the program to "those illustrated anatomy books where transparent plastic pages can be flipped to reveal the muscle, bone and organs beneath the skin. Stripping off the layers of patrician pedigree, Yale and his Texas business pursuits, the documentary lays bare Mr. Bush's spiritual conversion and its consequences."
The full PBS program can be viewed online at www.pbs.org beginning Saturday, May 1. The full transcript should be available "in about a week following the initial broadcast," according to the website. VHS and DVD copies also can be ordered there.
The broadcast recounts that a men's Bible study in Midland, Texas, and a visit with Billy Graham helped a struggling George W. Bush find faith in the 1980s. Bush was in danger of losing his marriage and his two young daughters from a drinking problem, Wead recounted. He woke up one morning with a decisive, "Eureka, that's it," as Wead put it, according to the PBS transcript. "'I'll take God. I'll beat drinking. I keep Laura and the girls; [it's] that simple. I will never take a drink again the rest of my life. Done. ... So where do you go to sign up? How do you believe? I'll believe.'"
During the 1988 presidential campaign, after his father finished behind TV evangelist Pat Robertson in the Iowa caucuses, the elder son helped bridge the gap between evangelical community and his Episcopalian father. In the end, George H.W. Bush became the first modern president to achieve a landslide victory without a strong Catholic or Jewish vote.
Bush continued to build on his relationships with evangelicals in winning the Texas gubernatorial race in 1994, unseating touted Democratic Gov. Ann Richards.
Bush's support for faith-based initiatives was birthed in the Texas capital when he gave support to public funds for a drug treatment program operated by a religious organization, Teen Challenge.
Cizik, explaining the rationale for President Bush's emphasis on faith-based initiatives, told Frontline, "We believe there has to be equality of treatment toward religious social service providers in America ... so that they're treated the same as secular service providers -- equal competitors for federal dollars to be able to dispense services to the needy. That's what the faith-based initiative of this president is about....
"For decades, religious service providers have been told, 'You're religious. You don't qualify. You can't even compete,'" Cizik continued, "in spite of the fact that our institutions, our social service providers, have done the best job, according to many social scientists, in helping people. Helping the inmate who's back on the street. Helping the drunk or the derelict. Helping the unwed mother who needs help. Our social service providers have done the best job, the most effectively, at the least cost. Yet for decades, we've been told, 'You don't qualify.' That's simply not the American way."
Gaddy, of The Interfaith Alliance, listed several objections to faith-based initiatives, according to the transcript of his interview. Amid such programs, "evangelists, proselytizers ... can move among the people" who are receiving services, "and they can proselytize all they want," Gaddy said.
Gaddy also reminded that anti-discrimination regulations, for example, will accompany federal funds and thus thwart faith-based organizations in using "doctrinal conformity and ecclesiastical polity" in their hiring practices. "[I]f they want to be conduits of federal funds, if they want to be a part-employee of the federal government, then they have to live with the same regulations and civil rights that everyone else lives with," Gaddy said.
Land also expressed such reservations about faith-based initiatives, but told Frontline, "I don't think there's any question that this president's heartbeat is close to the heartbeat of Southern Baptists when it comes to serious and important public policy issues to Southern Baptists. The first one unquestionably, undeniably is the question of the sanctity of human life. This issue is as important to Southern Baptists as the slavery issue was to the abolitionists."
Land noted that Bush, in the 2000 election, "carried every state in which there was a significant Southern Baptist presence." He also stated, "The single most reliable predictor of how a person voted in the 2000 election was whether they went to church or synagogue or mosque at least once a week." If they did, Land said, "two-thirds of them voted for George W. Bush."
Wead predicted that President Bush's signing of the ban on partial-birth abortion last November "will be a big statement to evangelicals," most of whom he described as pro-life. "... [T]hey've never had anything on the right-to-life abortion front ever, from Reagan or anybody," Wead said. "So in that sense, it'll be significant, even to evangelicals who are pro-choice. I think at least they will stop and think, 'You know, I'm pro-choice. But he had the guts to buck the whole media to sign that, and it's meant as a gesture towards me, even though I'm pro-choice.'"
Today at the White House, Cizik said, "This president somehow -- and I think his staff -- have the heartbeat of evangelicals. So we don't need to be constantly calling up the White House, or whatever, lobbying them on behalf of our agenda. I think that we see eye to eye. They understand how we think." In previous administrations, he said, "There was all this idea -- 'Oh, if we can only get a staff person in the White House who would carry our concerns to the president.' Well, a private joke inside the Beltway nowadays is, 'We don't need a staff person. We've got one in the Oval Office.' What do you want, a staff person, or do you want the president who understands you? I'll take the president."
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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